Army loss in Triple OT; Cadets took 24 more FTs - Lafayette Sports Fan Forum



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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:27 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2139







ARMY LAF
POINTS 76-73
FIELD GOALS: MADE-ATTEMPTED
22-69 26-59
FIELD GOAL PERCENTAGE
31.9% 44.1%
THREE POINT: MADE-ATTEMPTED
3-12 5-12
THREE POINT PERCENTAGE
25.0% 41.7%

FREE THROWS: MADE-ATTEMPTED
29-42 16-18

FREE THROW PERCENTAGE
69.0% 88.9%
REBOUNDS
41 48

ASSISTS
10 14
TURNOVERS
21 38
BENCH POINTS
12 34
BLOCKS
6-0

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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:48 pm

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 815







Was this an OT game?
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:03 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2139







3 OTs.
7-7
7-7
7-4

Damn near historic.

1 2 3 4   OT OT2 OT3 F
Laf 9 17 19 10   7 7 4 73
Army 9 10 17 19   7 7 7 76

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:29 am

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 892


Location: New York City





Terrible, terrible, terrible officiating starting in the 4th Quarter.  Somehow, Army was able to score a basket on a long pass and a layup with 1.2 seconds left.  The offensive fouls called on us late in the game were outrageous.  I have to stop going to athletic events at West Point because the officiating is so one-sided, and it makes me furious.  

Anyway, the team certainly had Army beaten in regulation and in the first OT but they simply could not play tough defense at the end.  

More tomorrow.  There certainly were some good things that came out of this one.

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:35 am

MaroonerView user's profile






Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 156


Location: Allentown





It sounds like there were a lot of contributing factors but, based on the highlight I saw, the way Lafayette allowed the game-tying bucket in regulation was inexcusable. Too much celebrating and not enough getting back on defense. Also, I assume/hope that the officials checked the replay, because - at full speed - that shot looked awfully close to not getting off on time.

Another teachable moment and, overall, another encouraging effort in a season where it's OK to point out silver linings.

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:16 am

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
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Gumbs 5 fouls in 15 minutes of play.
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:34 am

bison137View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Marooner wrote:
It sounds like there were a lot of contributing factors but, based on the highlight I saw, the way Lafayette allowed the game-tying bucket in regulation was inexcusable. Too much celebrating and not enough getting back on defense. Also, I assume/hope that the officials checked the replay, because - at full speed - that shot looked awfully close to not getting off on time.

Another teachable moment and, overall, another encouraging effort in a season where it's OK to point out silver linings.



Yes, they did review it. That's automatic.  Shot went in with 0.2 seconds left. I felt bad for the LC kids - but not getting back on defense was inexcusable.  Giving up possession on a five second count with 14 seconds left was also a killer.

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:47 pm

SixtyEighterView user's profile






Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 508







Even in triple overtime you can't win with 38 turnovers.And the 7-8 in the OT periods are really what prevented the win. There were actually two 5 second inbound TO's in OT possibly back to back and in the second OT  back to back intercepted short passes after inbounds plays.In the game and the OT's Lafayette seemingly had the game won and gave away the leads.I agree the refs were abominable.
As an aside does anyone know if Ashley Lutz is injured? She didn't even take off her warm up suit when 5 players had fouled out.
But the sheer volume of turnovers doomed the Leopards who just couldn't stop turning the ball over at the most inopportune times with disastrous effect.
I didn't see the whole game but caught the end after the men's game ended.

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:41 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 892


Location: New York City





bison137 wrote:
Marooner wrote:
It sounds like there were a lot of contributing factors but, based on the highlight I saw, the way Lafayette allowed the game-tying bucket in regulation was inexcusable. Too much celebrating and not enough getting back on defense. Also, I assume/hope that the officials checked the replay, because - at full speed - that shot looked awfully close to not getting off on time.

Another teachable moment and, overall, another encouraging effort in a season where it's OK to point out silver linings.



Yes, they did review it. That's automatic. Shot went in with 0.2 seconds left. I felt bad for the LC kids - but not getting back on defense was inexcusable. Giving up possession on a five second count with 14 seconds left was also a killer.


All true Bison.  The coach had the wrong player in bounding the ball (a freshman "big") in the last 14 seconds so that one is on the coaches.  As to the "not getting back on defense, you are right BUT if the clock was running after the LC bucket by #13, there was no possible way that Army could have scored.  It looked clear to us that the timekeeper stopped the clock after the basket.  And there was time put back on the clock after the Army score.  An amazingly long 1.2 or 1.6 seconds to be sure.  It is symptomatic of the kind of s__t that goes on with officiating and game administration at West Point.  I have never seen anything like it in a lifetime of attending sporting events there.  And as you know, I have seen it over and over in other sports including baseball and soccer.  I am also aware of your "explanations" of how the officials are assigned for the Patriot League, and I feel strongly that the League needs to do something about it e.g. making a major issue of it with the NCAA.  I can't believe that the league should just sit on its hands and do nothing.

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:47 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 892


Location: New York City





SixtyEighter wrote:
Even in triple overtime you can't win with 38 turnovers.And the 7-8 in the OT periods are really what prevented the win. There were actually two 5 second inbound TO's in OT possibly back to back and in the second OT back to back intercepted short passes after inbounds plays.In the game and the OT's Lafayette seemingly had the game won and gave away the leads.I agree the refs were abominable.
As an aside does anyone know if Ashley Lutz is injured? She didn't even take off her warm up suit when 5 players had fouled out.
But the sheer volume of turnovers doomed the Leopards who just couldn't stop turning the ball over at the most inopportune times with disastrous effect.
I didn't see the whole game but caught the end after the men's game ended.


Totally agree with yo u68er re: the turnovers.  The LC point guard situation is a mess unfortunately.  Stippa is doing the best she can and she generally plays pretty tough defense.  I feel for her and her Dad.

Lutz is not injured.  The coach is simply not playing her.  To her credit, Ashley is accepting it with grace and maturity.

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:50 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6164







Ed, I believe the clock is stopped after a made basket with under a minute to play. However, I agree with your assessment of officiating at Army.

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:00 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 892


Location: New York City





Thanks for clearing that up Andy.  Most appreciated.

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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:33 pm

bison137View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1382







ed65 wrote:
bison137 wrote:
Marooner wrote:
It sounds like there were a lot of contributing factors but, based on the highlight I saw, the way Lafayette allowed the game-tying bucket in regulation was inexcusable. Too much celebrating and not enough getting back on defense. Also, I assume/hope that the officials checked the replay, because - at full speed - that shot looked awfully close to not getting off on time.

Another teachable moment and, overall, another encouraging effort in a season where it's OK to point out silver linings.



Yes, they did review it. That's automatic. Shot went in with 0.2 seconds left. I felt bad for the LC kids - but not getting back on defense was inexcusable. Giving up possession on a five second count with 14 seconds left was also a killer.


All true Bison. The coach had the wrong player in bounding the ball (a freshman "big") in the last 14 seconds so that one is on the coaches. As to the "not getting back on defense, you are right BUT if the clock was running after the LC bucket by #13, there was no possible way that Army could have scored. It looked clear to us that the timekeeper stopped the clock after the basket. And there was time put back on the clock after the Army score. An amazingly long 1.2 or 1.6 seconds to be sure. It is symptomatic of the kind of s__t that goes on with officiating and game administration at West Point. I have never seen anything like it in a lifetime of attending sporting events there. And as you know, I have seen it over and over in other sports including baseball and soccer. I am also aware of your "explanations" of how the officials are assigned for the Patriot League, and I feel strongly that the League needs to do something about it e.g. making a major issue of it with the NCAA. I can't believe that the league should just sit on its hands and do nothing.



What would you suggest that the league do? The refs you're seeing at patriot league games are no worse than the refs at all the other mid-major conference games. The problem is that almost all of the referees in women's basketball range from mediocre to horrible. There are no more than 8-10 good refs over the entire spectrum of women's college basketball, and they ref only the top games.  Even most if the refs at UConn games are weak.

To change things would require an intensive10-year program of recruitment and training, major societal changes, and tripling the pay level.  Very few people want to ref women's college basketball.

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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:52 pm

MaroonerView user's profile






Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 156


Location: Allentown





Mid-major women's basketball officials are what they are, and the number of times that they have legitimately determined the outcome of a game is probably negligible in the grand scheme of things. The better team usually wins no matter who is calling the game.

But the uphill battle to get a fair shake at Army is something I've observed in basketball (men's and women's, and not just Lafayette games) through the years that goes well beyond the expected "home court advantage" that everybody - including the Leopards - benefits from on occasion.

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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:49 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 892


Location: New York City





bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
bison137 wrote:
Marooner wrote:
It sounds like there were a lot of contributing factors but, based on the highlight I saw, the way Lafayette allowed the game-tying bucket in regulation was inexcusable. Too much celebrating and not enough getting back on defense. Also, I assume/hope that the officials checked the replay, because - at full speed - that shot looked awfully close to not getting off on time.

Another teachable moment and, overall, another encouraging effort in a season where it's OK to point out silver linings.



Yes, they did review it. That's automatic. Shot went in with 0.2 seconds left. I felt bad for the LC kids - but not getting back on defense was inexcusable. Giving up possession on a five second count with 14 seconds left was also a killer.


All true Bison. The coach had the wrong player in bounding the ball (a freshman "big") in the last 14 seconds so that one is on the coaches. As to the "not getting back on defense, you are right BUT if the clock was running after the LC bucket by #13, there was no possible way that Army could have scored. It looked clear to us that the timekeeper stopped the clock after the basket. And there was time put back on the clock after the Army score. An amazingly long 1.2 or 1.6 seconds to be sure. It is symptomatic of the kind of s__t that goes on with officiating and game administration at West Point. I have never seen anything like it in a lifetime of attending sporting events there. And as you know, I have seen it over and over in other sports including baseball and soccer. I am also aware of your "explanations" of how the officials are assigned for the Patriot League, and I feel strongly that the League needs to do something about it e.g. making a major issue of it with the NCAA. I can't believe that the league should just sit on its hands and do nothing.



What would you suggest that the league do? The refs you're seeing at patriot league games are no worse than the refs at all the other mid-major conference games. The problem is that almost all of the referees in women's basketball range from mediocre to horrible. There are no more than 8-10 good refs over the entire spectrum of women's college basketball, and they ref only the top games. Even most if the refs at UConn games are weak.

To change things would require an intensive10-year program of recruitment and training, major societal changes, and tripling the pay level. Very few people want to ref women's college basketball.


Bison: In reponse to your overly pessimistic screed, the situation will never change unless the Patriot League does something about it.      If it takes a ten year program and pay increases, so be it.  Certainly there are people out there who want to referee women's games.  I don't know what you mean about societal changes but with all the gender equality stuff going on, I don't see it how it could be changed more.  After watching UConn women's hoops for the last 20 years or so that I have lived in CT, I don't share your assessment of the refs who work their games, and I suspect I've seen more of their games than you have.  My wife tapes all of them and is a real fan.

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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:24 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2139







The worst single call against Lafayette ever IMHO was in MBB: intentional foul on Stankavage vs. Bucknell in the ECC tournament.

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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:36 pm

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 815







bethlehempard wrote:
The worst single call against Lafayette ever IMHO was in MBB: intentional foul on Stankavage vs. Bucknell in the ECC tournament.


My recollection is that it was at Towson, John Leone was the coach. It was a fast break up the sideline. I remember Pat Fisher being ejected from the stands and a guy named Dooderline was also tossed. I think the official was Jim Haney, an Easton resident.
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:51 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2139







I think it was Frank Scagliotta from Bangor. Great guy and he got to the tournament too, that was just a mental blip, so he had to be a good ref.
Just not on that call.
That was a killer, after all those years and being that close to the NCAAs. The call came after the pass and it was not only the wrong call but making it intentional sealed the deal.
I assume that central tournament locations are gone for good. Trouble for the fans and the teams.

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