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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:57 pm

pardfanView user's profile






Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 401







With the announcement of the involvement of a consulting firm (as some had predicted on the Forum) Byerly concluded with "...and to be successful competitors in the Patriot League." (On Oct. 9, I said SHE should say"... LC is totally committed to winning in the PL."  Close enough, I guess.)
Problem IMO:  Bruce made the announcement which makes me wonder if, despite the fact that he has been part of the problem, he is considered part of the solution.  Everything and everyone should be in play here to do it right.

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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:27 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6053







Good call, lafalum.

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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:08 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 856


Location: New York City





The appointment of this group is really important.  One thing is missing: Alumni on the Committee.  I wonder why we were omitted?  And depending who the Trustees are ... I hate to even think about it.

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Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:11 pm

ZeusView user's profile






Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Posts: 182







Too Funny on several levels.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:57 am

edge29View user's profile






Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 756







So they're putting a group together to study themselves?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I suppose this is a step in the right direction but this reminds me of the idiots governing the Town I live in. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars studying things that 2 citizens could have come up with solutions to in 5 minutes.

Here are 2 questions the consultants can study...

1 - What is essential to the long-term sustainability of athletics??

Hint: $$$$

2 - Once #1 is determined, how do we ensure that we grow that source?

Hint: win

It ain't rocket science folks.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:08 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3889







edge29 wrote:
So they're putting a group together to study themselves?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I suppose this is a step in the right direction but this reminds me of the idiots governing the Town I live in. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars studying things that 2 citizens could have come up with solutions to in 5 minutes.

Here are 2 questions the consultants can study...

1 - What is essential to the long-term sustainability of athletics??

Hint: $$$$

2 - Once #1 is determined, how do we ensure that we grow that source?

Hint: win

It ain't rocket science folks.


Why do people hire consultants:
1. They don't know answer
2. They know the answer and they don't like it
3. They know the answer and they want cover when they impose the solution.


The answer of course number is number 3, the sub answer is win.
The question is how do we win and that is what we are unwilling to do because it can involve reporting structure and a change in personnel. I honestly think it is not as much money as you might think and if you win the money will come.
However, the very fact you are having a study will freeze the large money until the results are known. That is capital money and operating money.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:09 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3889







edge29 wrote:
So they're putting a group together to study themselves?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I suppose this is a step in the right direction but this reminds me of the idiots governing the Town I live in. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars studying things that 2 citizens could have come up with solutions to in 5 minutes.

Here are 2 questions the consultants can study...

1 - What is essential to the long-term sustainability of athletics??

Hint: $$$$

2 - Once #1 is determined, how do we ensure that we grow that source?

Hint: win

It ain't rocket science folks.


Why do people hire consultants:
1. They don't know answer
2. They know the answer and they don't like it
3. They know the answer and they want cover when they impose the solution.


The answer of course number is number 3, the sub answer is win.
The question is how do we win and that is what we are unwilling to do because it can involve reporting structure and a change in personnel. I honestly think it is not as much money as you might think and if you win the money will come.
However, the very fact you are having a study will freeze the large money until the results are known. That is capital money and operating money.
Those alums that write the larger checks should be part of the process to insure that flow of money continues.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:14 am

LeopardBall10View user's profile






Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 291







Lafalum wrote:

3. They know the answer and they want cover when they impose the solution.

The answer of course number is number 3, the sub answer is win.
The question is how do we win and that is what we are unwilling to do because it can involve reporting structure and a change in personnel.


I agree with this 100%. I think she already knows the answer she is looking for, but as others have mentioned in other threads, creating cross represented committees has been her M.O. for increasing discussion across employee groups and bettering relations between staff, faculty, etc.

I think she hired this consultant to bring a campus wide group together to discuss why we are not competitive, why we should be competitive, and how we get there. I think this will allow the Trustees and faculty to think it was their idea all along to change reporting structures and personnel.
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:27 am

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 856


Location: New York City





edge29 wrote:
So they're putting a group together to study themselves?

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I suppose this is a step in the right direction but this reminds me of the idiots governing the Town I live in. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars studying things that 2 citizens could have come up with solutions to in 5 minutes.

Here are 2 questions the consultants can study...

1 - What is essential to the long-term sustainability of athletics??

Hint: $$$$

2 - Once #1 is determined, how do we ensure that we grow that source?

Hint: win

It ain't rocket science folks.


Good points edge.  I would add that in order to achieve #2, there must be a completer reorganization of the the reporting structure AND a change in personnel at the top of the Athletics Dept.  Strategies are great but how effectively they are executed is the key.  Also, Lafalum is quite correct that Alison needs institutional buy-in here to cope with the dissidents on the Board, Faculty and Alumni who are anti-sports.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:52 am

SixtyEighterView user's profile






Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 492







I read the press release re: the Athletic Consultng gambit. To find out why we are noncompetitive one need s to look no farther than the apparent disconnect between McCutcheon's statement and that of Byerly.Alison is looking to improve in the league and McCutcheon is looking to promote vague "institutional" goals.I am coming to the conclusion that he is a road block to success.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:53 am

edge29View user's profile






Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 756







LeopardBall10 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:

3. They know the answer and they want cover when they impose the solution.

The answer of course number is number 3, the sub answer is win.
The question is how do we win and that is what we are unwilling to do because it can involve reporting structure and a change in personnel.


I agree with this 100%. I think she already knows the answer she is looking for, but as others have mentioned in other threads, creating cross represented committees has been her M.O. for increasing discussion across employee groups and bettering relations between staff, faculty, etc.

I think she hired this consultant to bring a campus wide group together to discuss why we are not competitive, why we should be competitive, and how we get there. I think this will allow the Trustees and faculty to think it was their idea all along to change reporting structures and personnel.


If this is the case, she's more on board than I thought!

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:52 pm

artanisView user's profile






Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 130







I recently saw a list of PL programs and the money spent on football. If I recall, Fordham led the way with Colgate, LU and Lafayette close behind at $5 million. I know that money is important, but if you are already competitive as far as dollars spent is concerned, what else is wrong if you're not winning?

Georgetown spends $1 million and there are no merit scholies, so their bringing up the rear is explainable...although before this year, they were beating the pards.

So really, what is the problem if it is not dollars?
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artanis

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:58 pm

artanisView user's profile






Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 130







Re: "The Committee"

Take your pick:

If Columbus had an advisory committee he would probably still be at the dock.
— Arthur Goldberg



There is no monument dedicated to the memory of a committee.
— Lester J. Pourciau



Socrates was killed by a committee, so committees are not totally useless.
— John Alejandro King



A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled.
— Sir Barnett Cocks


To get something done, a committee should consist of no more than three men, two of whom are absent.
— Robert Copeland



A committee can make a decision that is dumber than any of its members.
— David Coblitz
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artanis

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:23 pm

Franks TanksView user's profile






Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 3273







artanis wrote:
I recently saw a list of PL programs and the money spent on football. If I recall, Fordham led the way with Colgate, LU and Lafayette close behind at $5 million. I know that money is important, but if you are already competitive as far as dollars spent is concerned, what else is wrong if you're not winning?

Georgetown spends $1 million and there are no merit scholies, so their bringing up the rear is explainable...although before this year, they were beating the pards.

So really, what is the problem if it is not dollars?


In football it is coaching, and lack of accountability. Other sports have inadequate budgets, which should be explored.  Go back to the Lehigh board.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:50 pm

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3889







Franks Tanks wrote:
artanis wrote:
I recently saw a list of PL programs and the money spent on football. If I recall, Fordham led the way with Colgate, LU and Lafayette close behind at $5 million. I know that money is important, but if you are already competitive as far as dollars spent is concerned, what else is wrong if you're not winning?

Georgetown spends $1 million and there are no merit scholies, so their bringing up the rear is explainable...although before this year, they were beating the pards.

So really, what is the problem if it is not dollars?


In football it is coaching, and lack of accountability. Other sports have inadequate budgets, which should be explored.  Go back to the Lehigh board.


Accountability and the shameful wages paid to assistants.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:04 pm

Franks TanksView user's profile






Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 3273







Lafalum wrote:
Franks Tanks wrote:
artanis wrote:
I recently saw a list of PL programs and the money spent on football. If I recall, Fordham led the way with Colgate, LU and Lafayette close behind at $5 million. I know that money is important, but if you are already competitive as far as dollars spent is concerned, what else is wrong if you're not winning?

Georgetown spends $1 million and there are no merit scholies, so their bringing up the rear is explainable...although before this year, they were beating the pards.

So really, what is the problem if it is not dollars?


In football it is coaching, and lack of accountability. Other sports have inadequate budgets, which should be explored.  Go back to the Lehigh board.


Accountability and the shameful wages paid to assistants.


Good point. As we discussed years ago, and you very correctly pointed out, increasing assistants salaries would be perhaps the best way to spend money.  Paying a coach 65k instead of 35k (or whatever the numbers may be) can attract much better coaches and provide stability.  This simple act may allow notable improvement in non-revenue sports.  This is assuming better assistants would also do a better job finding and evaluating talent.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:13 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 1306







Forgive me but I struggle with this consulting thing. I have read the comments here and tend to agree that the college knows what they want to do for the most part and is looking for outside support of their ideas. Seems to be a lot of politics. Disappointed some key alumni are not involved. Once again, we want your money but then shut up.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:46 pm

Leopard LoyalistView user's profile






Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 98







Academia loves committees, but too often the committees are all study and little action. Hiring a consulting firm, however, indicates a financial commitment that in turn suggests a commitment to actually doing something. Why spend money on a consultant if you don't want to achieve the stated objective?--even if, as has been suggested, you already know what you need to do.
As for Bruce's comments about institutional mission and goals, it could be interpreted as meaning what has been said on this board many times: if we aspire to excellence in all other areas of institutional effort, why can't there be a similar aspiration for excellence in the athletic program?

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:30 pm

BPardView user's profile






Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Posts: 208







flyfisher wrote:
Seems to be a lot of politics. Disappointed some key alumni are not involved. Once again, we want your money but then shut up.
Lafayette is a very political place.

I will surprised if alumni - particularly major funders of athletics - are not included in the process even if they don't have seats on the committee itself.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:09 pm

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 815







This seems like it's a replay of the Eve Atkinson era.


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