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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:15 am

carney2View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 5447


Location: Allentown, PA





During the Lafayette @ Fordham telecast one of the announcers stated that Lafayette had recruited Fordham freshman phenom running back Chase Edmonds as a defensive back.  If true, that is…let me be kind here…disappointing…astounding…unbelievable!  I’ll be honest with you, in a system where merit, and not service, is the primary determinant of who gets on the field, I think Edmonds would put even Ross Scheuerman on the pine.  He is a special talent and has the potential to be the best RB in the Patriot League since Colgate’s Jamaal Branch, who won the Payton Award back in 2003.  Mistakes are made, recruiting isn’t an exact science, and yada yada yada, but who looks at a kid like this and sees a defensive back?!!

Anyway, this “thought process” (I don’t do much thinking, so I hesitate to classify this rambling as thought) led me to consider some other Lafayette recruiting “strategies.”  I make the following statements not as fact, but as a plea for some input on the effectiveness of Lafayette football recruiting.  C’mon, you people who actually know something about this, straighten me out.

QUARTERBACK – While other Patriot League schools are, as Andy says, actively recruiting and signing 3-star QBs (big trouble for us down the road), we seem to stumble into ours.  I don’t know the story on Brad Maurer, but he wasn’t signed by Lafayette until May of his senior year.  I don’t think that Rob Curley was heavily recruited out of high school, and both Zach Zweizig and Drew Reed were headed for FBS schools as juniors, but senior year injuries dropped them off most recruiting lists.  You can say that this is heads up recruiting and maybe it is.  My point is that the other schools seem to be coming through the front door and fighting for prime recruits while our staff seems to be hanging at the back door hoping for a decent leftover.  If freshman Josh Davis works out, he would be the outlier here because we came through the front door to get him.

OFFENSIVE LINE – We seem to consistently value size over talent.  If we happen to get both in the same package, well so much the better.  Our O-line has been, charitably speaking, consistently mediocre since 2010.  They don’t seem to improve through their years on College Hill because they probably can’t.  Although it’s true that you can’t teach size, it is also true that there is only so much that can be done to increase a big man’s mobility.  As defenses switch to smaller, quicker defensive ends, our guys are left standing there as if they’ve been nailed in place.  You might have noticed through the first 5 games this year that our run blocking has, at times, been satisfactory, but our pass protection has been frequently el stinko.  These guys can go straight ahead to cover short distances, but those dancing defensive ends leave them in the dust.

WIDE RECEIVER – The staff recruited 5 WRs for this year’s freshman class.  This was a logical move since 3 of the 4 returning receivers are seniors.  As some suspected, however, the returnees are not a stellar group.  We don’t have a deep threat and we don’t have a “go to” guy.  Those all too predictable passing schemes where a receiver runs to an area and fights off a defender for the ball were perfect for a Mark Ross, but are a death sentence for guys who cannot shake a defender.  The point is that we have 5 freshmen, some of whom were high school studs, and none are pushing mediocrity out of the way to get to the front of the line.  I know, I know, they’re freshmen, give them time.  Still, we’re 5 games into the season and we should be seeing some cream rising to the top.  Matt Mrazek is the only one getting serious playing time, but he looks more like a possession receiver rather than a downfield threat.  Rocco Palumbo has gotten some snaps, but not enough to judge if anything is there.  And Nick Franzese has been assigned to the kickoff return deep position on occasion so he must have some speed.  Anyway, my point is – and getting back to the topic at hand – if our recruiting were effective you’d think that someone or someones would be stepping into this vacuum and making a statement.  Hasn’t happened yet.

I could go on but I’m boring even me.  Does someone (Frank?!) need to step in and evaluate our recruiting system?  Are we really doing a good job?  I’m trolling for knowledgeable opinions.

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:35 am

RichHView user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1211







Think most of us are in the same boat,coaches also. A learning process with some hits and some misses. Think most if PL offered Edmonds. He made his choice. He is fun to watch and hell to play against. Looking around PL all of us are looking at similar recruiting results with our young schollie kids. We all kinda hoped for more and quicker impact. Lits of good QBs,Reed,Shafnisky,Pujols. This is truly much more of a transition year than I expected. Admittedly a good bit more of one for LU with staff turnover. Think I expected the same level of improvement as last year. Well,no. Same with Pards,Cross and Gate. Hard to tell yet with BU given their sched. Two more classes and we'll have a better idea.

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:12 am

adcs2View user's profile






Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 276







Well we might have possible owned a recruiting advantage with Edmonds against other PL schools.

The AD at CD East is Greg Goldthorp. He is a 1981 Easton grad and he, along with his parents (George & Donna Watson) were huge supporters of Lafayette athletics.

Now I am not saying an 18-year-old kid is going to listen to the AD (if Greg even tried to provide any input), but if the kid was scared off by the "we are going to play you at DB" stance well that is a darn shame.

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Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:48 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6151







We offered Edmonds early last year.   We've read numerous times where recruits have said they were told by LC that they could play on either side of the LOS. Why wouldnt they have told Edmonds that. I dont believe the announcers. I'll look into it.

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 12:27 am

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6151







In the WFUV post game show their crew also mentions and jokes about LC having recruited Edmonds as a cornerback:

http://www.wfuv.org/sports/fordha...ets-revenge-drops-lafayette-42-18

Info had to come from somewhere, assume from interview of the player.

If true a real blunder.

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:29 am

SixtyEighterView user's profile






Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 504







To judge the results of our recruiting you need to look at where Fordham was 2 years into their scholarship era.They were right where we are if I remember correctly. They had scholarship players beginning to fill in the lineup but still had many holes.If I'm not mistaken we beat them in Easton during their second year of scholarships.
  As to Chase Edmonds if that report is true the guy who recruited him as a DB should be fired.Edmonds should have been offered anything legal to get him here but we have to remember that besides a quality education Lafayette has Easton and Fordham has NYC.Fordham also had a proven winner to offer while we are perennially rebuilding .Even though we won the league and beat Fordham on the way it was a tainted championship and we beat Fordham without Nebrick.
   One additional note on recruiting : our most successful recruiters are now at other schools higher on the food chain e.g. Matt Hachman at Towson which challenged for the national championship last year.Others are head coaches.
      Another factoid : Fordham may have different academic admission standards . I am not demeaning Edmonds - I have no idea of his high school grades or test scores and if we offered him he must have passed our muster. Nevertheless I remember an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer in the summer before Koonce enrolled at Fordham in which he was reported to be elated that he had qualified academically under NCAA Guidelines the final marking period of his senior year.That means a 2.0 and comparable board scores.
      Colgate must also bend their admission standards.I watched the Holy Cross - Colgate game on PLN. Ryan Vena was the color commentator.He could barely speak .His commentary was simian gibberish.

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:43 am

crView user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Sour grapes on Vena who graduated more than a decade ago when btw there was no AI.
_________________
Go Gate!

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:12 am

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6151







A key for FU this year is the fact that they start 17 seniors, several of whom are 5th year, including grad student Biesteck.  

As a large U, Fordham can offer recruits majors such as "Communications" and presumably crim justice and ed.

If they were bold enough to thumb their nose at the league on an issue so prominent as scholarships, why should they be trusted on something so opaque as the AI?  And what exactly is the league going to do about it given their "enforcement action" on the scholarship issue?

Nebrich and Jones, the UCONN transfers, are both comm majors.

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:53 am

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2131







Disciplinary issues have cost the team money and spots. Sakowski has apparently straightened out:
http://www.troyrecord.com/sports/...kyle-sakowskis-success-headphones

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:53 am

BillSView user's profile






Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 1019







Andy wrote:
A key for FU this year is the fact that they start 17 seniors, several of whom are 5th year, including grad student Biesteck.  

As a large U, Fordham can offer recruits majors such as "Communications" and presumably crim justice and ed.

If they were bold enough to thumb their nose at the league on an issue so prominent as scholarships, why should they be trusted on something so opaque as the AI?  And what exactly is the league going to do about it given their "enforcement action" on the scholarship issue?

Nebrich and Jones, the UCONN transfers, are both comm majors.
Some Ivy schools offer majors in journalism and communications why can't we? We have a new theatre major so it makes perfect sense to add those other majors...Also why I'm giving my opinions maybe we should add a Post Grad MBA program. CHEERS

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:29 am

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6151







BillS wrote:
Andy wrote:
A key for FU this year is the fact that they start 17 seniors, several of whom are 5th year, including grad student Biesteck.  

As a large U, Fordham can offer recruits majors such as "Communications" and presumably crim justice and ed.

If they were bold enough to thumb their nose at the league on an issue so prominent as scholarships, why should they be trusted on something so opaque as the AI?  And what exactly is the league going to do about it given their "enforcement action" on the scholarship issue?

Nebrich and Jones, the UCONN transfers, are both comm majors.
Some Ivy schools offer majors in journalism and communications why can't we? We have a new theatre major so it makes perfect sense to add those other majors...Also why I'm giving my opinions maybe we should add a Post Grad MBA program. CHEERS


Bill, our old friend, Marquise Watson, only had 4 tackles yesterday but still leads Bryant with 35.  Surprised he didnt end up at FU.

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:33 am

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6151







bethlehempard wrote:
Disciplinary issues have cost the team money and spots. Sakowski has apparently straightened out:
http://www.troyrecord.com/sports/...kyle-sakowskis-success-headphones


Just don't take his laundry out of the machine!

Wish he was still here.

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:34 pm

RichHView user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1211







While FU may have lower overall admission requirements overall,all their players must come in above AI floor. All recruits are vetted by PL. More pertinent is the fact that they have 16 schollie seniors starting. 30 vs 60 not impossible but certainly highly unlikely. This is akin to Cross the first couple of yrs. Field will even out subsrantially next season.

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:36 pm

Franks TanksView user's profile






Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 3280







SixtyEighter wrote:
To judge the results of our recruiting you need to look at where Fordham was 2 years into their scholarship era.They were right where we are if I remember correctly. They had scholarship players beginning to fill in the lineup but still had many holes.If I'm not mistaken we beat them in Easton during their second year of scholarships.
  As to Chase Edmonds if that report is true the guy who recruited him as a DB should be fired.Edmonds should have been offered anything legal to get him here but we have to remember that besides a quality education Lafayette has Easton and Fordham has NYC.Fordham also had a proven winner to offer while we are perennially rebuilding .Even though we won the league and beat Fordham on the way it was a tainted championship and we beat Fordham without Nebrick.
   One additional note on recruiting : our most successful recruiters are now at other schools higher on the food chain e.g. Matt Hachman at Towson which challenged for the national championship last year.Others are head coaches.
      Another factoid : Fordham may have different academic admission standards . I am not demeaning Edmonds - I have no idea of his high school grades or test scores and if we offered him he must have passed our muster. Nevertheless I remember an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer in the summer before Koonce enrolled at Fordham in which he was reported to be elated that he had qualified academically under NCAA Guidelines the final marking period of his senior year.That means a 2.0 and comparable board scores.
      Colgate must also bend their admission standards.I watched the Holy Cross - Colgate game on PLN. Ryan Vena was the color commentator.He could barely speak .His commentary was simian gibberish.


-Fordham really isn't a proven winner.  The have 2 league championships (3 after this year) after nearly 25 year in the league.  They have been good for brief periods followed by complete disasters a few years later.

- I can guarantee that Frank wanted Edmunds as a RB.  Lets just stop talking about this.  Koonce transferred to FU after Hofstra dropped their program, so I believe they would've looked at this college scores for admission, but point taken.  Fordham has always taken kids the rest of the league couldn't touch.  They had a head start on scholarships, a big transfer crop and more admission flexibility.

-Not really fair in regard to Vena.  The AI was in effect for him, and he did better than the CBS guys. Vena is a quality guy as well.

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:24 pm

crView user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 567



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You got that right Franks Tank.  There might have been an AI in 1996, but not banding.  Vena is a good guy, and a competitive guy to say the least.
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Go Gate!

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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:18 pm

carney2View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 5447


Location: Allentown, PA





A comparison with Fordham was neither requested nor welcomed when I asked my initial question.  They have a head start, beau-coup the transfers, and may or may not be playing games with the AI.  I couldn't care less.  And Ryan Vena was a great player, and I'm taking cr's word for his high status as a human being.  Again, couldn't care less.  Do we need basket weaving majors and a graduate school?  Not my problem.

One more time, is the LAFAYETTE recruiting approach on target?  Does it have holes, both in logic and execution.  Does it need a serious tweak?  Stay on topic, will ya guys.  This is about US, not them, and not us vs. them.

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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:27 pm

ELBView user's profile






Joined: 25 Oct 2013
Posts: 216







The recruiting effort is in infancy.  Grew wonderfully from 1st to 2nd year.  Year three offers show that the target has been expanded even over last year.  I think it is a learning experience.  Tavani has said it's a new game - have to start earlier, make offers earlier (both with regard to LC football season and to HS kids' standing at school - juniors versus seniors), expand geographically (good success in California last year - Link should help in Florida, although numerous offers to Florida kids this year have not yet come to fruition).  We have a limited target when it comes to HS football players - they have to be really good students that need convincing that LC is their springboard to financial success.  The LC football facilities should be a huge positive (I know first hand that facilities are more impressive than many of our competitors').  The 3rd scholarship class will be a good indicator of our recruiting health.

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