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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:17 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3916







I guess we have given up!

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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:00 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1877


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Carney was kind of the poster child for the Lafayette "fan" who relished in misfortune. Without him those of us that actually want the best for these teams are running out of things to say.

Holy Cross is one of the few PL programs (possibly the only) that we can beat with any type of regularity.  The parts I saw yesterday - they owned. They fouled like hell and we got some goals because of it - but it's never a good thing when we lose to HC in Lax. Not by 5 goals (2 of which were in the "let's just get the hell out of here" phase of the game.)

A win over NJIT and another over either CU or BU would go a long way in building some confidence toward next season. That's where we are right now - hoping for 4-10. (5-10 would be an unqualified success).

So I haven't given up - but not many successful lax seasons include a loss to the Crusaders.

FWIW - the announcers seemed to think the PL tournament is an 8-team affair, although they were easily the weakest announcers I have heard in some time.
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Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:56 pm

bison137View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1378







The Maroon wrote:


FWIW - the announcers seemed to think the PL tournament is an 8-team affair, although they were easily the weakest announcers I have heard in some time.



If they think it's an 8-team tournament, then that's a pretty good indication that they are clueless.

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:14 am

whatthefrank?View user's profile






Joined: 23 Aug 2012
Posts: 62







The Maroon wrote:
Carney was kind of the poster child for the Lafayette "fan" who relished in misfortune. Without him those of us that actually want the best for these teams are running out of things to say.

Holy Cross is one of the few PL programs (possibly the only) that we can beat with any type of regularity. The parts I saw yesterday - they owned. They fouled like hell and we got some goals because of it - but it's never a good thing when we lose to HC in Lax. Not by 5 goals (2 of which were in the "let's just get the hell out of here" phase of the game.)

A win over NJIT and another over either CU or BU would go a long way in building some confidence toward next season. That's where we are right now - hoping for 4-10. (5-10 would be an unqualified success).

So I haven't given up - but not many successful lax seasons include a loss to the Crusaders.

FWIW - the announcers seemed to think the PL tournament is an 8-team affair, although they were easily the weakest announcers I have heard in some time.



Wow - a bit harsh on Carney no?  I mean I am pretty sure he wanted/wants the same thing - winning programs or at least competitive programs.  I think we all have a right to be unsatisfiled and if you can show me a silver lining, I'll take it!!  I personally miss Carneys input if for no other reason than it forced uncomfortable issues to be openly discussed  and not just glossed over

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:24 pm

seenalotView user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1424







I think that's generally true.  

Speaking only for myself, its years and years of cumulative disappointment without so much as a peep (let alone outrage or action)coming out of our academic or athletic leadership about how its going to change.  Cant fix something unless you admit its broken.

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Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:08 am

lafayettelacrosseguyView user's profile






Joined: 27 Mar 2015
Posts: 7







While I rarely post on this forum, I am a frequent reader. There have been posts about the coaching staff, the administration, and talent on the team at different points throughout the season. The main issue with this program is that while things may be changing the results are not.

Some posters claim that the talent on the hill has increased dramatically in the last few years, but has it really? The results do not prove that.  Just because a recruit comes in highly touted doesn't mean anything if at the end of the day the scoreboard doesn't show any difference.

The fundraising goal of the team has gone up to $200,000 this year. Where is the return on this investment? We all want the best for this program and the kids but were raising $80,000 more then we were just a few years ago and we are hoping to end with the same record?

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Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:02 pm

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3916







lafayettelacrosseguy wrote:
While I rarely post on this forum, I am a frequent reader. There have been posts about the coaching staff, the administration, and talent on the team at different points throughout the season. The main issue with this program is that while things may be changing the results are not.

Some posters claim that the talent on the hill has increased dramatically in the last few years, but has it really? The results do not prove that. Just because a recruit comes in highly touted doesn't mean anything if at the end of the day the scoreboard doesn't show any difference.

The fundraising goal of the team has gone up to $200,000 this year. Where is the return on this investment? We all want the best for this program and the kids but were raising $80,000 more then we were just a few years ago and we are hoping to end with the same record?


Not unlike I am hearing from the other friends committees!!! No one will give without seeing a return and that means W's. From what I hear is that 50% of the operating budget is coming from friends groups now as the college just raised tuition 4% (2400 dollars). We do not need LGBT rallies, leadership seminars....we need wins!!

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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:47 am

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1877


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Lafalum wrote:
lafayettelacrosseguy wrote:
While I rarely post on this forum, I am a frequent reader. There have been posts about the coaching staff, the administration, and talent on the team at different points throughout the season. The main issue with this program is that while things may be changing the results are not.

Some posters claim that the talent on the hill has increased dramatically in the last few years, but has it really? The results do not prove that. Just because a recruit comes in highly touted doesn't mean anything if at the end of the day the scoreboard doesn't show any difference.

The fundraising goal of the team has gone up to $200,000 this year. Where is the return on this investment? We all want the best for this program and the kids but were raising $80,000 more then we were just a few years ago and we are hoping to end with the same record?


Not unlike I am hearing from the other friends committees!!! No one will give without seeing a return and that means W's. From what I hear is that 50% of the operating budget is coming from friends groups now as the college just raised tuition 4% (2400 dollars). We do not need LGBT rallies, leadership seminars....we need wins!!


And we got one! 12-4! NJIT!

If we can find a way to split the last two, we hold serve vs. last year and I think things line up well for next season.

I really don't think the Athlete Ally program is an impediment to winning.
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:37 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3916







The Maroon wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
lafayettelacrosseguy wrote:
While I rarely post on this forum, I am a frequent reader. There have been posts about the coaching staff, the administration, and talent on the team at different points throughout the season. The main issue with this program is that while things may be changing the results are not.

Some posters claim that the talent on the hill has increased dramatically in the last few years, but has it really? The results do not prove that. Just because a recruit comes in highly touted doesn't mean anything if at the end of the day the scoreboard doesn't show any difference.

The fundraising goal of the team has gone up to $200,000 this year. Where is the return on this investment? We all want the best for this program and the kids but were raising $80,000 more then we were just a few years ago and we are hoping to end with the same record?


Not unlike I am hearing from the other friends committees!!! No one will give without seeing a return and that means W's. From what I hear is that 50% of the operating budget is coming from friends groups now as the college just raised tuition 4% (2400 dollars). We do not need LGBT rallies, leadership seminars....we need wins!!


And we got one! 12-4! NJIT!

If we can find a way to split the last two, we hold serve vs. last year and I think things line up well for next season.

I really don't think the Athlete Ally program is an impediment to winning.


But does it help winning...and could the money be better spent is the question a donor might ask!!

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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:57 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1877


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Lafalum wrote:
The Maroon wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
lafayettelacrosseguy wrote:
While I rarely post on this forum, I am a frequent reader. There have been posts about the coaching staff, the administration, and talent on the team at different points throughout the season. The main issue with this program is that while things may be changing the results are not.

Some posters claim that the talent on the hill has increased dramatically in the last few years, but has it really? The results do not prove that. Just because a recruit comes in highly touted doesn't mean anything if at the end of the day the scoreboard doesn't show any difference.

The fundraising goal of the team has gone up to $200,000 this year. Where is the return on this investment? We all want the best for this program and the kids but were raising $80,000 more then we were just a few years ago and we are hoping to end with the same record?


Not unlike I am hearing from the other friends committees!!! No one will give without seeing a return and that means W's. From what I hear is that 50% of the operating budget is coming from friends groups now as the college just raised tuition 4% (2400 dollars). We do not need LGBT rallies, leadership seminars....we need wins!!


And we got one! 12-4! NJIT!

If we can find a way to split the last two, we hold serve vs. last year and I think things line up well for next season.

I really don't think the Athlete Ally program is an impediment to winning.


But does it help winning...and could the money be better spent is the question a donor might ask!!


I'm of the theory that were losing by and large because we're being outrecruited...Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one: Other schools have better players than we do.

The question is - why? Either 1) Our coaches by and large can't evaluate talent as well as the coaches in our peer schools (very unlikely) 2) We lack the resources financially to recruit as effectively (somewhat likely) or 3) We aren't getting the kids we want through admissions (likely).

As for the Athlete Ally program - it may be widening the net of potential athletes who would consider going to Lafayette. My guess is that's not the objective but may be an added benefit. I can't bring myself to criticize a program that promotes tolerance - but I'm probably more sensitive on this issue than most of my partners in crime on this board.

I'm not dismissing your observation - when you are going through the type of year we are I say EVERYTHING needs to be evaluated. I don't know where the money came from for the "If you can play" and the "Athlete Ally" program (or if these initiatives were expensive). My main concern is that they are more marketing than substance.

I've been a fan for 27 years now and for me this year has been the worst - this issue is probably fodder for another part of the board as all sports are affected but I'm on a roll. When the "feel good"story of the year is either one guy leaving for Rutgers or a Men's tennis player coming out - it's a pretty dismal year. The question is can we look at this year as an anomoly - a perfect storm that hit almost all of our programs at once? Or is this the new run rate...?
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:57 pm

bison137View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1378







The Maroon wrote:


I'm of the theory that were losing by and large because we're being outrecruited...Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one: Other schools have better players than we do.

The question is - why? Either 1) Our coaches by and large can't evaluate talent as well as the coaches in our peer schools (very unlikely) 2) We lack the resources financially to recruit as effectively (somewhat likely) or 3) We aren't getting the kids we want through admissions (likely).




A huge factor is (4) a tradition of losing.    Even if the three you state weren't issues at all, it is hard to convince a strong player to commit to a program that has had one winning season in 25+ years and has qualified for the PL tournament once.     Based on history, a recruit is likely to experience four losing years and never even reach the PL tournament.   That's a tough sell for any coach, and he is likely to get the kids who didn't get offers (or money) from the stronger programs.    Unlike basketball, it is very tough to turn around a lax program unless you get a big-name coach or are fully-funded.   Turning around a battleship might be simpler.

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