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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:20 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3886







See the interview in the Lafayette with Mayor Panto. He calls the elevator a "waste of money." I agree. Time to rethink this boondoggle.

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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:37 pm

pardfanView user's profile






Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 401







Swimming pool mini-fix, the elevator, rudderless athletics, diversity fixation...I think we've lost our way.

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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:46 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 1306







And on the academic side, just since my son has been there they have dropped 3 engineering classes for an engineering degree and replaced them with 3 liberal classes. More African Religious studies, Women and Gender Equality, on and on. I am all for some English and World History but some of these liberal classes have no use to anyone. Recently I spoke with an engineering professor that has been in the Hill for years and he says since he has been there they have dropped 7 engineering classes and replaced them with liberal classes. My son has to use Lehigh in the summers to get the minimum engineering requirements. They offer some cool engineering electives. We are weakening our engineering program.

Spent the last 34 years working with and hiring engineers. Unless you are going the technical business route, the world needs competent engineers.

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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:50 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3886







Had no idea, fly that is truly alarming

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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:15 am

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 851


Location: New York City





Any downgrading of engineering is a disaster for LC as engineering is one of the true strengths of the school and one its most distinctive and unique features (advantages).  Clearly this is another area of major concern.

The gender studies and liberal courses are a sign of our times.  I cannot think of a more useless major than gender studies frankly.  Not sure I agree with you about Africa studies.  The continent is fascinating, has much in the way of natural resources and will be a bigger player on the world stage as more countries have fair elections (and the winners stop killing the losers and vice versa).  I have spent much time in that part of the world and I'm optimistic that things are changing albeit slowly.

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:41 am

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 1306







ed65 wrote:
Any downgrading of engineering is a disaster for LC as engineering is one of the true strengths of the school and one its most distinctive and unique features (advantages). Clearly this is another area of major concern.

The gender studies and liberal courses are a sign of our times. I cannot think of a more useless major than gender studies frankly. Not sure I agree with you about Africa studies. The continent is fascinating, has much in the way of natural resources and will be a bigger player on the world stage as more countries have fair elections (and the winners stop killing the losers and vice versa). I have spent much time in that part of the world and I'm optimistic that things are changing albeit slowly.


To be specific, just since my son has been there they have gotten rid of Design 2, Thermodynamics 2 (they tried to combine 1&2 but you don't get all the material covered) and combined Controls class and Lab, used to be 2 classes. Lehigh has not done this and the Ga Tech's, Va Tech's, NCState's  of the world require 6-8 more engineering classes than Lafayette. Once he graduates he plans to take some additional engineering classes somewhere else.They replaced these classes with more liberal arts. As to studying African religion, I know africaisa fascinating country. Just think another engineering class would be better than a class on african religion. I am all for more English and world history, or even us history, some philosophy maybe. But this gender studies crap doesn't help anyone.

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:01 am

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 1306







Adding to the above comment, all these liberal arts classes for engineers yet they are not required to take even the first accounting class. You can use a free elective for that. As an example of something Lehigh offers, they have a financial accounting 1&2 for engineers for research and development as well as manufacturing. Pretty cool classes, customized for engineered, plus good for grad school. I think every college student should be required to take 1 accounting class.

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:41 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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Location: New York City





A small nitpick fly:  Africa is a continent, and a huge one at that.  I totally agree with you that dropping engineering classes for gender studies is a colossal mistake.  Dropping engineering courses for any reason makes no sense.  I don't understand how this can happen.  It needs to be addressed.  I suspect most of the undergrads would consider gender studies to be a joke major to say nothing of most alumni (feminists excepted of course).

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:16 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
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ed65 wrote:
A small nitpick fly: Africa is a continent, and a huge one at that. I totally agree with you that dropping engineering classes for gender studies is a colossal mistake. Dropping engineering courses for any reason makes no sense. I don't understand how this can happen. It needs to be addressed. I suspect most of the undergrads would consider gender studies to be a joke major to say nothing of most alumni (feminists excepted of course).


Yea, its a continent. And I know that but slipped. I was in a hurry. I actually worked in Angola for 9 months in the oil business for Haliburton. Saw some other areas as well. Its was pretty cool to sse but I was 22 years old and ready to get out of there. The bar and women scene in Angola was pretty bad. Of course I went from there to Kuwait and UAE so it wasn't any better.

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:21 pm

BPardView user's profile






Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Posts: 208







Quote:
And on the academic side, just since my son has been there they have dropped 3 engineering classes for an engineering degree and replaced them with 3 liberal classes.

I suspect the devil is in the details.

Are engineers now required to take less courses in engineering and more courses in the liberal arts, or do they have optionality in previously required higher level engineering courses? Or is it simply that the faculty are offering fewer engineering courses but that the engineering graduation requirements are the same? Or some combination of both?

The Division wouldn't pass ABET accreditation if they just straight required students to take too many liberal arts courses.

It would not surprise me if the College added courses in liberal arts while removing engineering courses. That's very different than requiring students to take less engineering courses to graduate. It sounds like your son has to take summer courses at Lehigh because there's less courses offered now, which reduces his flexibility, but that the graduation requirements are the same.

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:56 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
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Same number of hours but less engineering and more liberal arts. Thre probably is more to do it but still same number of courses.

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:21 pm

BPardView user's profile






Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Posts: 208







flyfisher wrote:
Same number of hours but less engineering and more liberal arts. Thre probably is more to do it but still same number of courses.
Color me surprised. Looking at the differences for the Class of 2016 and Class of 2017 and beyond in the Course Catalog Programs of Study, there are some notable differences. In the interest of everyone else's time, I'll summarize:

Note: Major courses are in the department. Collateral courses are required for the course of study but outside the department (i.e., foundational math, chemistry, or physics plus science or tech electives).

Chemical Engineering: No structural changes (14 major courses, 11 collateral courses).
Author's Note: Long live the unflinching CHE

Civil:
Reduction from 13 major to 12 major courses
Removal of one major elective
Increase from 13 collateral courses to 14 collateral courses
The addition above is requiring either deeper chemistry/nature of materials or a civil engineering elective.
Swap one technical elective for for one engineering elective
Author's Note: No increase to liberal arts. Increase in collateral offsets decrease to major.

Electrical and Computer:
Reduction from "a minimum of 15-16 major courses" to "a minimum of 13-14 major courses"
Computer organization is no longer required (part of above)
Reduction in major/cs elective from three to two
Still 12-13 collateral courses
Author's Note: Slight shift towards liberal arts, but still leaves the highest engineering and department specific course load because we all know the real minimums are 14 major and 13 collateral....

Mechanical:
Reduction from 15 major courses to 14 major courses
Restructuring of the core major courses to provide for 2 ME electives; part of this restructuring is combining Thermo into one course (instead of I and II) and doing the same for Engineering Design into one course (instead of I and II)
Reduction from 14 collateral courses to 12 collateral courses
Changing 2 technical electives to 1 science/math elective (part of the change to collateral courses above)
Changing the chemistry/materials collateral courses
Author's Note: Biggest changes in this department. I'd have to dig into ME electives and course of study to comment on the consolidation in favor of requiring more electives. 10% shift towards liberal arts still leaves MEs with more STEM courses (26) than the vaunted CHEs (25).

I am a little surprised at ME. Rest of the changes are what I expected - tweaking electives within STEM and the like. And those stalwart CHEs...

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:00 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 851


Location: New York City





Good work Bpard - this helps clarify things.  There must be a reason for the changes so let's find out.  The guy who heads the engineering Dept (Jim something, I think) is very approachable if anyone knows him.

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:04 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 851


Location: New York City





flyfisher wrote:
ed65 wrote:
A small nitpick fly: Africa is a continent, and a huge one at that. I totally agree with you that dropping engineering classes for gender studies is a colossal mistake. Dropping engineering courses for any reason makes no sense. I don't understand how this can happen. It needs to be addressed. I suspect most of the undergrads would consider gender studies to be a joke major to say nothing of most alumni (feminists excepted of course).


Yea, its a continent. And I know that but slipped. I was in a hurry. I actually worked in Angola for 9 months in the oil business for Haliburton. Saw some other areas as well. Its was pretty cool to sse but I was 22 years old and ready to get out of there. The bar and women scene in Angola was pretty bad. Of course I went from there to Kuwait and UAE so it wasn't any better.


I can just imagine the bar scene in Angola - yuck. Same with Kuwait and UAE. I worked in both countries in the 90s and the only action was at people's homes. There were no bars!Saudi was even worse - you couldn't go running in shorts and a tee shirt because the radical clerics would hassle you big time and call you a homosexual. The gyms in that country were segregated. That culture is so radically different from the West that it is impossible to fathom if you haven't been there.

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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:05 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 1306







ed65 wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
ed65 wrote:
A small nitpick fly: Africa is a continent, and a huge one at that. I totally agree with you that dropping engineering classes for gender studies is a colossal mistake. Dropping engineering courses for any reason makes no sense. I don't understand how this can happen. It needs to be addressed. I suspect most of the undergrads would consider gender studies to be a joke major to say nothing of most alumni (feminists excepted of course).


Yea, its a continent. And I know that but slipped. I was in a hurry. I actually worked in Angola for 9 months in the oil business for Haliburton. Saw some other areas as well. Its was pretty cool to sse but I was 22 years old and ready to get out of there. The bar and women scene in Angola was pretty bad. Of course I went from there to Kuwait and UAE so it wasn't any better.


I can just imagine the bar scene in Angola - yuck. Same with Kuwait and UAE. I worked in both countries in the 90s and the only action was at people's homes. There were no bars!Saudi was even worse - you couldn't go running in shorts and a tee shirt because the radical clerics would hassle you big time and call you a homosexual. The gyms in that country were segregated. That culture is so radically different from the West that it is impossible to fathom if you haven't been there.


Sounds like you traveled like me. I was over there from 82' to late 84'. Only beer we could get in Middle East was Lowenbrau. And toilet paper was like gold. We had it shipped in. We had a bar at our hotel in Sharjah, UAE until we went out on site. WE used to go to Dubai before it got built up. We used to fly steaks in from the US and the British nurses would show up just to get fed decent food.

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Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:13 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 851


Location: New York City





flyfisher wrote:
ed65 wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
ed65 wrote:
A small nitpick fly: Africa is a continent, and a huge one at that. I totally agree with you that dropping engineering classes for gender studies is a colossal mistake. Dropping engineering courses for any reason makes no sense. I don't understand how this can happen. It needs to be addressed. I suspect most of the undergrads would consider gender studies to be a joke major to say nothing of most alumni (feminists excepted of course).


Yea, its a continent. And I know that but slipped. I was in a hurry. I actually worked in Angola for 9 months in the oil business for Haliburton. Saw some other areas as well. Its was pretty cool to sse but I was 22 years old and ready to get out of there. The bar and women scene in Angola was pretty bad. Of course I went from there to Kuwait and UAE so it wasn't any better.


Fly: the best thing about the Middle East (other than the money we were making!) was getting on the plane to leave.

I can just imagine the bar scene in Angola - yuck. Same with Kuwait and UAE. I worked in both countries in the 90s and the only action was at people's homes. There were no bars!Saudi was even worse - you couldn't go running in shorts and a tee shirt because the radical clerics would hassle you big time and call you a homosexual. The gyms in that country were segregated. That culture is so radically different from the West that it is impossible to fathom if you haven't been there.


Sounds like you traveled like me. I was over there from 82' to late 84'. Only beer we could get in Middle East was Lowenbrau. And toilet paper was like gold. We had it shipped in. We had a bar at our hotel in Sharjah, UAE until we went out on site. WE used to go to Dubai before it got built up. We used to fly steaks in from the US and the British nurses would show up just to get fed decent food.


fly: the best thing about the Middle East was getting on the plane to leave.

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