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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:26 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2137







Princeton 65-27. Lafayette scored nine points in the second half.
The PR staff focused on this gem:

The Leopards (1-9) keyed in on limiting the Tigers’ (4-4) leading scorer, Bella Alarie, and it worked to perfection as the freshman was unable to put the ball into the basket all game.

I admire our writers' spunk. They've spun losses in every possible way.

Shooting: 11 for 52, 1 for 14 from 3.

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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:37 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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Location: New York City





A new low in every way.  The team seems to be regressing as the OOC goes on.

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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:00 am

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1878


Location: Bethlehem, PA





A shitshow for the ages.

3 wins may be our ceiling.

I guess we see now why O'Hare basically played every minute last season.

Whoever is doing "the study" needs to start here.
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:26 am

SixtyEighterView user's profile






Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 506







I think it's  a three  way tie between the men , the women , and the football team as to which team can sink lower.The guy from Colgate who was quoted as saying Lafayette was DIII in a DI league was correct. Swarthmore could compile scores like we do.

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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:05 pm

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 815







ed65 wrote:
A new low in every way.  The team seems to be regressing as the OOC goes on.


From what records I could find, last night's game against Princeton set a new record of fewest points scored in a regulation game.  The previous record was 29 against Northampton Community College way back in 1972.  That was the first year for women's basketball. The '72 team finished 4-2 under coach Sharon Mitchell. They still had the half court rule.
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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:44 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2137







27 points is a record. The previous low was 28,
"achieved" four times:
Vs. Lehigh, 1975
Vs. Princeton and Dartmouth, 1994
Vs. St. Joe's, 1996.
In just her second season, Coach Grentz is already breaking records.

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Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:39 pm

Ransom StoddardView user's profile






Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 59







I paid $9.95 to watch last night's game - or $ .36 per each of our points.  We failed to score in double digits in any quarter.

To answer Maroon's question from the last thread - re: what is wrong with this program - it's the coaching.  We are a third of the way through the season.  Playing the freshman isn't working.  There is too much pressure on them and it is hurting their performance and development - they are unhappy.  The upperclassmen are getting screwed out of minutes they have earned and it's hurting them - they are unhappy. I think it's plainly obvious that the dysfunction on the team is a direct result of how the coaching staff is managing the team.  I know we did not have much success last year, but I cannot believe that our core group of kids got this bad overnight.  The team looks tight and on-edge.  In my experience, that always mirrors how the kids are being coached.  

I had sky-high hopes, but I am officially off the Coach Grentz bandwagon.  "Hall of Fame coach"; "Olympic team Coach".  The US women's Olympic team has won the gold medal in every Olympics from 1984 to 2016 - except in 1992 when Coach Grentz was the head coach.  We took the bronze that year.  Since that year we have not even so much as lost a single Olympic game. I know it's petty to bring that up, but I don't want to hear about the past anymore.  I only want to hear about the current Lafayette Women's Head Coach who put the program back on the right path.  And that can start at practice today.          

We can't help but be more competitive if the veterans get more minutes.  There will still be ample opportunities to rotate the freshman in and develop them.  A good coach is flexible and tries different approaches when one is not working.  The playing-the-freshman approach is not working.  Time to try another (jeez - I'd take the Grinnell System at this point).  And quit throwing the kids under the bus in the post-game interviews.  Take some responsibility for what is happening here and work to make it better.

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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:53 am

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1878


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Ransom Stoddard wrote:
I paid $9.95 to watch last night's game - or $ .36 per each of our points.  We failed to score in double digits in any quarter.

To answer Maroon's question from the last thread - re: what is wrong with this program - it's the coaching.  We are a third of the way through the season.  Playing the freshman isn't working.  There is too much pressure on them and it is hurting their performance and development - they are unhappy.  The upperclassmen are getting screwed out of minutes they have earned and it's hurting them - they are unhappy. I think it's plainly obvious that the dysfunction on the team is a direct result of how the coaching staff is managing the team.  I know we did not have much success last year, but I cannot believe that our core group of kids got this bad overnight.  The team looks tight and on-edge.  In my experience, that always mirrors how the kids are being coached.  

I had sky-high hopes, but I am officially off the Coach Grentz bandwagon.  "Hall of Fame coach"; "Olympic team Coach".  The US women's Olympic team has won the gold medal in every Olympics from 1984 to 2016 - except in 1992 when Coach Grentz was the head coach.  We took the bronze that year.  Since that year we have not even so much as lost a single Olympic game. I know it's petty to bring that up, but I don't want to hear about the past anymore.  I only want to hear about the current Lafayette Women's Head Coach who put the program back on the right path.  And that can start at practice today.          

We can't help but be more competitive if the veterans get more minutes.  There will still be ample opportunities to rotate the freshman in and develop them.  A good coach is flexible and tries different approaches when one is not working.  The playing-the-freshman approach is not working.  Time to try another (jeez - I'd take the Grinnell System at this point).  And quit throwing the kids under the bus in the post-game interviews.  Take some responsibility for what is happening here and work to make it better.


I don't know enough about the dynamics of the 1992 International Women's basketball scene to know what happened at Barcelona, but she did have good stints at Rutgers and Illinois.  I have to believe she has SOME basketball acumen! It's not clear to me if her skill-set transfers over to Patriot League hoops - I guess we'll find out.

But that's kind of my point. THIS appears to be the one program Bruce is willing to can coaches. What was the process that brought about coach Grentz? Or coach Nolan for that matter?

A putrid game... well that's going to happen sometimes....But this teams body of work is shaping up like some of our all-time worst teams, and lord knows we've had some bad ones. No excuse for that with scholarships. None.
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:31 am

SixtyEighterView user's profile






Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 506







I am still a Coach Grentz believer. I think she has soured on the upper classmen due to all the ridiculous unforced errors, poor shooting and attitude that playing hard and losing is OK.As coach You have to play the full deck of cards dealt not just the ones you like best so I think the upperclassmen need to be coached and played with the frosh blended in to keep the pressure minimized.It is apparent that the Sam Hinkie approach doesn't work too well anywhere.I still believe in the long run she will succeed.Others have come into the PL from big time programs and succeeded elsewhere.

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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:10 pm

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 815







SixtyEighter wrote:
I am still a Coach Grentz believer. I think she has soured on the upper classmen due to all the ridiculous unforced errors, poor shooting and attitude that playing hard and losing is OK.As coach You have to play the full deck of cards dealt not just the ones you like best so I think the upperclassmen need to be coached and played with the frosh blended in to keep the pressure minimized.It is apparent that the Sam Hinkie approach doesn't work too well anywhere.I still believe in the long run she will succeed.Others have come into the PL from big time programs and succeeded elsewhere.


Hinkie never played basketball. His "advanced statistics" is nothing more than a bean counter.
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:29 pm

bison137View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1381







NewXbo wrote:
SixtyEighter wrote:
I am still a Coach Grentz believer. I think she has soured on the upper classmen due to all the ridiculous unforced errors, poor shooting and attitude that playing hard and losing is OK.As coach You have to play the full deck of cards dealt not just the ones you like best so I think the upperclassmen need to be coached and played with the frosh blended in to keep the pressure minimized.It is apparent that the Sam Hinkie approach doesn't work too well anywhere.I still believe in the long run she will succeed.Others have come into the PL from big time programs and succeeded elsewhere.


Hinkie never played basketball. His "advanced statistics" is nothing more than a bean counter.



Hinkie was a gym rat who started at PG for two years for his HS team.  Was not good enough to play at Oklahoma in college.

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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:15 am

MaroonerView user's profile






Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 155


Location: Allentown





Unfortunately, there's no #1 draft pick at the end of this "process." While players will (hopefully) improve over time, these freshmen just do not seem to be that good. Think of the recent All-PL players we've had: Wright, Homan, Fiacco, O'Hare. They all showed SOMETHING as freshmen.

Sadly, it's possible that Coach Nolan's almost .500 teams that occasionally beat (or at least put a scare into) the better teams in the league might have been the program's high point for the foreseeable future. Here's hoping that I'm wrong on all counts.

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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:34 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1878


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Marooner wrote:
Unfortunately, there's no #1 draft pick at the end of this "process." While players will (hopefully) improve over time, these freshmen just do not seem to be that good. Think of the recent All-PL players we've had: Wright, Homan, Fiacco, O'Hare. They all showed SOMETHING as freshmen.

Sadly, it's possible that Coach Nolan's almost .500 teams that occasionally beat (or at least put a scare into) the better teams in the league might have been the program's high point for the foreseeable future. Here's hoping that I'm wrong on all counts.

Yeah - we'll grab a couple of slots on the all-rookie team by virtue of the fact they are getting minutes, but I'm not seeing anyone who looks like they are headed to all-league or 1,000 points in this bunch. Time will tell.

Patience seems to be in order here. A lot of it.
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:08 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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Location: New York City





Maroon & Marooner:  Gumbs is the real deal.  Yes, she is a raw talent but she will play and continue to improve.  You are way off base in your evaluation of her - the other Freshman, that is a different story, especially in terms of basic talent.  At this point, your comments are accurate re: those threee.

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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:40 am

MaroonerView user's profile






Joined: 20 Jan 2011
Posts: 155


Location: Allentown





ed65 wrote:
Maroon & Marooner:  Gumbs is the real deal.  Yes, she is a raw talent but she will play and continue to improve.  You are way off base in your evaluation of her - the other Freshman, that is a different story, especially in terms of basic talent.  At this point, your comments are accurate re: those threee.

Just looked back at the stats. 7.1 points (on a team averaging under 50) and a team-high 6.2 rebounds per game for Gumbs is better than I thought she had. It's actually comparable to Fiacco's freshman year numbers (we'll give Gumbs a pass on the block total because she's a good six inches shorter than Danielle).

Small sample size, but I'll retract that statement in regards to her for the time being. Good catch, thanks for correcting.

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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:26 am

Ransom StoddardView user's profile






Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 59







I like Gumbs too - she has talent, athleticism, and aggressiveness which we sorely lack.  But watch closely in today's game - she constantly loses her man on defense and too many times she seems to be acting as an individual on offense instead of being a part of running the offensive scheme (not that you can tell we have an offensive scheme).  She also commits bad fouls that get her into foul trouble too easily.  Some examples from last game:  at least twice, she screamed for the ball in the low post, got the ball, dribbled under the basket, had no shot, but threw it up anyway and missed terribly instead of kicking it out; she got a worthless reach-in foul out near the mid-court line when a girl from the other team was running by her and Gumbs stuck out her arm and whacked her; and toward the end of the game, Ottewill-Soulsby had a look of total exasperation on her face as she tried to run out and defend an open 15-footer after Gumbs had lost her person for the umpteenth time. She'd be such a better player if she cures those things and starts hitting FTs (she is about 50% right now).  Stats rarely tell the whole story.  I wish we had someone keeping a player efficiency rating as part of the stats.  In some of the road games last year, the PER was part of the stats and, not surprisingly, Hood and Lutz had by far the best numbers.

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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:23 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2137







The women are No. 315 in Sagarin out of 349.
Trust the process!
Perhaps it would be best to ignore this team for a year? Like volleyball?
Coach Grentz will be 65 in March. Hang in there!

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