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| CHC8485 |
'08 - '09 Schedule ReleasedBoy you guys really are hung up on football! Your basketball schedule's been out on the Lafayette web site since yesterday and not a word here.http://goleopards.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/080508aad.html Here's the Non-Conference portion. What do you think? 11/14/08 at Wagner 11/18/08 vs. Stony Brook 11/21/08 vs. Temple 11/25/08 at Colorado (at Boulder) 11/30/08 at CCSU 12/04/08 at Hartford 12/08/08 at Fordham 12/18/08 vs. Robert Morris 12/21/08 at Penn State 12/28/08 vs. Towson 12/30/08 vs. Princeton 01/02/09 vs. Mount St. Mary's 01/06/09 at Penn 02/02/09 at Fairleigh Dickinson A bit heavy on the NEC side, but you have some good games in there both home & away. Personally I hope you beat the tar out of Fordham since Whittenburg has refused to play HC since 2005 because he never could figure out how to beat us! |
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| carney2 |
Thanks, Mr. CHC for pointing this out to us. The overwhelming response to your post should make it clear that hoops is something true Pards worry about when Fisher Stadium is under too much snow.
A Q&D response to your OOC schedule post from someone who knows absolutely nothing: Fran is still a recruit or two away from coping with something like this. If "good games" means competitive games, I'm not sure this is the year. We graduated something like 4 of the top 6 from a team that folded like a greeting card down the stretch last year. We are (hopefully) rebuilding. |
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| TheTruth |
Another tough out of conference schedule. Like the home games though.
Should be interesting as I heard one of our players blew out his knee recently. Visocki (sp?) Not sure if it is season ending or not. |
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| carney2 |
I finally actually looked at this thing. How did we get Temple at home? Is Fran that tight with Dunphy? Too bad it's scheduled for 11/21, Lehigh eve. I have 16 people headed for my house for THE Game and won't be at Kirby. | ||||
| bison137 |
1. It's ironic that "true Pards" now mostly concern themselves with football when LC has a much greater tradition with the roundball than with the pointy ball.
2. The ESPN PL summer preview implies that Deirunas Visockas may be out for the year. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/not...page=notebook/shootaround/patriot |
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| Titicus |
I'm not so sure we've had a "Much greater tradition with the roundball". If you're referring to the fact that we've had basketball coaches with greater national recognition than our head football men, then I'm willing to agree. But other than a handful of "big" wins in basketball, football accomplishments (particularly those of the '20s, '30s & '40s) overshadow anything we've ever done on the hardwood. I was on the hill for Fran's most successful years (to-date), which coincided with some ugly football seasons, and my feeling is that the student body and alumni have tended to place a greater emphasis on football, regardless. |
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| carney2 |
Those of you from schools that just play "schedules" overlook the fact that (quoting Frank Tavani) "we end each [football] season with a bowl game." THE Game trumps everything else that goes on in the athletic department - and it is a FOOTBALL game. (Hard to grasp by outsiders: it isn't a big game; it isn't even the big game; it's THE Game.) Other sports have tried to grab some of the luster when they get entangled with the ChickenSquawks, and hoops has even succeeded to some extent, but that one annual event elevates football to another level. I'm betting that it's as true at Lehigh as at Lafayette. |
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| Pard4Life |
Football definetely has greater tradition and history at Lafayette... we were a national program back in the day. I disagree about our head coaches in football, who are more high profile than basketball: Jock Sutherland, Ernie Nevers (one season, 1-8.. but still), Hooks Mylin, and Parke Davis. All are in the College Football HOF... for basketball, I can only think of Van Breda Kopff. |
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| Titicus |
You're correct. I probably should have said "I'm willing to listen to your argument." I was including Pete Carrill and Gary Williams (while I know neither was the head coach and only Pete is in the HOF) because they're association with Lafayette is fairly well-known. |
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| TheTruth |
Don't forget Dr. Tom Davis......
I always thought we had a better history in basketball and baseball then football. Yes we were good pre-1950 but we had some very lean years from 1960-1982. We really didn't do much on the national scene until beating HC in 1988 (still our biggest football win in recent times). Then you have the playoffs in the past 5 years. I guess a quick check of the record books will help clear this argument. |
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| bison137 |
I'll grant you that the LC-LU game is something special to those at the two schools and that LC has been playing football for a long time. However, I think most outsiders who have been following sports for a long time would say that LC's tradition in basketball since World War II is far greater than in football. To start with, since the WW2 era, LC's hoops record is .548 while the football record for comparable years is about .460. Basketball, prior to the Leone and O'Hanlon era - when the lack of scholarships really became a burden - had a winning pct of .593. As for coaches, I'm surprised you did not mention Dr. Tom Davis and Roy Chipman. Davis left Lafayette for the Boston College job, and later was head coach at Stanford and Iowa. Chipman left LC for the Pitt job. That's two consecutive coaches who went directly from LC to BCS-level head coaching jobs. That says something about how well-regarded LC basektball was decades ago. How many LC football coaches since WW2 have gone directly to comparable jobs? And, as you say, there was Van Breda Kolff, who coached teams to the NCAA Final Four and the NBA Finals, among other things. As for success, LC got invited to a significant number of NIT's when the NIT was still a big deal and won at least one NIT game in MSG (Virginia?). And there was also the occasional win over a big-time program, such as the Notre Dame win. I don't think post-WW2 football has won games against the level of Virginia or Notre Dame. Also, there's the tradition of the Tripucka brothers etc. I think it comes down to LC football having more tradition if you're a LC alum and LC basketball having more tradition if you're not a LC alum. |
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| carney2 |
Needs rewording: I think it comes down to LC football having more tradition if you're a LC alum and LC basketball having more tradition if you're a Bucknell alum where nothing else seems to matter. We need KenZ to weigh in on this. |
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| bison137 |
Just out of curiousity, I asked the following question of another Bucknell alum, a Penn alum, and a Drexel alum who work for my company and who have been big college sports fans for many years: "Which sport does Lafayette have a greater tradition in - football or basketball?" All three unhesitatingly said basketball. Had I asked it of people who only started following Eastern college sports after 1985 (or older ones who played football without a helmet  ) then I imagine I might have received a different response. However, it's hard for me to imagine sports fans - other than LC and LU grads - who followed college sports for much of the period from 1950-85 not viewing LC as having more of a hoops tradition. And that is not meant to demean LC football but simply to recognize the great well-known coaches, the numerous NIT teams, the win in MSG, and the overall success. Those teams played at a higher level than any PL football team has played at.
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| carney2 |
Regardless, in the here and now, where we are forced to live - and regardless of the opinions of co-workers - the Patriot League, full members and affiliates, breaks down to 5 and 5: "Football schools:" Army, Colgate, Lafayette, Lehigh, Navy "Basketball schools:" American, Bucknell, Fordham, Georgetown, Holy Cross It is interesting to note that success in these two endeavors more or less follows these inclinations - or is it the other way around. |
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| Xboreturns |
Let's face it, fans are fickle and people in general want to be part of whats trendy. If you asked the question during the 1997 to 2000 time period, when the basketball team went 19-9, 22-8, and 24-7 while the football team was going 3-8, 3-8, 4-7, and 2-9, the overwhelming response would have been that Lafayette is a basketball school.
Obviously, over the last few years football has had considerable success while basketball struggled to stay afloat playing in a scholarship league without scholarships. Now that basketball scholarships are beginning to take effect I think you'll see the pendulum move back to the basketball school side. Hopefully, both teams can be perennial contenders and arguement will go unanswered. |
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| DaveR |
Here, here! I'll drink to that!!! |
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| bison137 |
How you measure LC's success depends on the age of the beholder. Over the last 40 years, LC clearly has been more successful in basketball. Over the last nine years, clearly more successful in football. |
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| cr |
I agree Carney. Certainly Colgate IS a football school, although hockey is right up there and we are improving in hoops. |
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| Long Time Fan |
If there is any doubt how Lafayette stands on the subject, just visit the college and take a tour of the respective facilities--football versus basketball. That should remove any doubts. | ||||
| TheTruth |
Not sure that is a good measure as just 3 years ago, you would have questioned if we were truly a Division 1 school based on facilities. Also helps when you have three very vocal alumni donors able to put 90% of the money up.
Basketball could do the same but improving their facilities impact other sports and offices. Hopefully we will see in a change in this soon, very soon. If you look at our sports history in totality, I think we can all agree we have a rich history in athletics. The landscape of college athletics has changed drastically in the past 80 years and the colleges in the Patriot League and to some degree, the Ivy League, have had little impact on the national scene. it's hard for me to agree when folks say we have a richer tradition in football. Outside of the Lehigh game, we haven't done anything in over 50 years! Winning the Patriot League is nice but all we have to show for it is 3 losses in the playoffs. Outside of the I-AA schools, who follows that? At least in basketball we have been on the national scene with the NIT and recently the NCAA tournaments. Like I mentioned before our biggest win in recent years was beating Holy Cross in 1988. You can also toss in sports like baseball and soccer and make a good case. |
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| Kiltedpard |
My apologies for being on vacation and not able to post. It's definintley a rebuilding year with one sr. and one scholarship jr. (one is a transfer and one is a Marquis scholar). IMO we are a hoops school. Other than THE game and the recent success football has been OK. And I am certainly not dissing the pigskins.....it's been a blast the last few years. I just feel our reputation out there is hoops. | ||||