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       Lafayette Sports Fan Forum Forum Index -> Men's Lacrosse
bethlehempard

1-9

"Same old same old" in Easton. The banality of endless ineptitude has smothered the campus.
PardDad71

Watching this team, I really do feel we are 2-3 players away from being very competitive, and I could be completely wrong as I certainly am not a deep X and O guy with Lax.
pardwatcher

2-3 Players away

With only 3-4 Scholarships and no aid in any form, how can you expect Lafayette to compete with these teams?  Monmouth is FULLY FUNDED, can stack aid and players get academic money even if they aren't getting any Lacrosse Scholarship.  It's an uphill battle at best, at the worst it's a futile effort that these kids seem to be embracing and actually succeeding occasionally.
Andy

Re: 2-3 Players away

pardwatcher wrote:
With only 3-4 Scholarships and no aid in any form, how can you expect Lafayette to compete with these teams?  Monmouth is FULLY FUNDED, can stack aid and players get academic money even if they aren't getting any Lacrosse Scholarship.  It's an uphill battle at best, at the worst it's a futile effort that these kids seem to be embracing and actually succeeding occasionally.


Right on, and I've been saying same for years. Expectations for underfunded programs, blaming coaches competing on uneven playing fields doesn't make any sense. Need transparency as to funding, identify supported teams so unmet, unwarranted expectations don't cast a pall over campus and among alumni body.
seenalot

Remind me - we have 3-4 in total, not 3-4 a year which would be the NCAA max.  That right?

No insight into this being just a $ issue or a title 9 issue too - anyone?
Lafalum

seenalot wrote:
Remind me - we have 3-4 in total, not 3-4 a year which would be the NCAA max.  That right?

No insight into this being just a $ issue or a title 9 issue too - anyone?


You are right on both counts title ix and $. The faculty and BOT were promised that aid would not exceed what it was previously given before athletic scholarships. ( That even applies to need based aid). A male recruited athlete is at a disadvantage in getting need based aid!!
Bogus Megapardus

PardDad71 wrote:
Watching this team, I really do feel we are 2-3 players away from being very competitive, and I could be completely wrong as I certainly am not a deep X and O guy with Lax.


We have some very talented players. We might be 2-3 players away but if you look at the size, speed and (most particularly) the athleticism of some of our competitors, those 2-3 players would have to be in exactly the right spots.

I didn't always subscribe to this view but reality has sunk in for me: at this point I don't think we can expect to compete for a league championship under any circumstances without at least 9-10 scholarships. If we expect to compete with less than that, we'd need a big draw, Bill Tierney-type coach with a winning record at a DI school, and hope that carries the day.

That said, I like Rogalski. He knows what he's doing and he looks for talented prospects in all the right places. The team is well-coached and does everything right. He's got one hand tied behind his back, however.

Hobart is the only real comparison. Hobart is a DIII school playing DI lacrosse without scholarships. It's a legendary program with a good coach who played at Hopkins and was an assistant at Princeton. But Hobart is slipping farther and farther down the rankings every year as DI lax gets more and more intense.
bethlehempard

There are 61 D1 lacrosse schools versus 351 for MBB and a couple hundred with BCS/FBS/FCS football.
Only about half of the Big 10 schools (plus Hopkins) play lacrosse. If the schools there and in other big conferences jump in and add teams, will full funding even matter?
Consider hockey and how Penn State jumped in, in a huge way.
Maybe the lacrosse window for the likes of Lafayette is closing. Even this last bastion team sport of the upper-middle class/rich suburban kid may be beyond reach for the northeastern private colleges.
Lafayette has allowed the sports program to linger without attention and the bill has come due.
Lafalum

bethlehempard wrote:
There are 61 D1 lacrosse schools versus 351 for MBB and a couple hundred with BCS/FBS/FCS football.
Only about half of the Big 10 schools (plus Hopkins) play lacrosse. If the schools there and in other big conferences jump in and add teams, will full funding even matter?
Consider hockey and how Penn State jumped in, in a huge way.
Maybe the lacrosse window for the likes of Lafayette is closing. Even this last bastion team sport of the upper-middle class/rich suburban kid may be beyond reach for the northeastern private colleges.
Lafayette has allowed the sports program to linger without attention and the bill has come due.


So our peer schools, Lehigh, Colgate, Bucknell can do it, but we can't ???
The Maroon

seenalot wrote:
Remind me - we have 3-4 in total, not 3-4 a year which would be the NCAA max.  That right?

No insight into this being just a $ issue or a title 9 issue too - anyone?


My very distant understanding (friend of a friend of someone who knows) is that we have 3 schollies over 4 years.
RichH

Lax expansion may have slowed a bit but the sport at the HS level is still expanding to the West and South.  Heck Lehigh has had recruits from Cal Tx Fla Oh. The increase in lax participation by the big State schools has increased the availability of schollies. The old days when a coach could pick up elite talent with need aid or partials alone are fast disappearing. That will not automatically bar the PL or Ivies from being successful nationally. Just means it requires better funding.
bison137

Lafalum wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
There are 61 D1 lacrosse schools versus 351 for MBB and a couple hundred with BCS/FBS/FCS football.
Only about half of the Big 10 schools (plus Hopkins) play lacrosse. If the schools there and in other big conferences jump in and add teams, will full funding even matter?
Consider hockey and how Penn State jumped in, in a huge way.
Maybe the lacrosse window for the likes of Lafayette is closing. Even this last bastion team sport of the upper-middle class/rich suburban kid may be beyond reach for the northeastern private colleges.
Lafayette has allowed the sports program to linger without attention and the bill has come due.


So our peer schools, Lehigh, Colgate, Bucknell can do it, but we can't ???



Bucknell has no athletic  scholarships for  men's lax, and the program is slowly slipping.   For that  matter, even Colgate and Lehigh - both of whom are close to fully-funded - have slipped the past two years.   It is getting tougher and tougher
Pardsfriend

men's lax success

bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
There are 61 D1 lacrosse schools versus 351 for MBB and a couple hundred with BCS/FBS/FCS football.
Only about half of the Big 10 schools (plus Hopkins) play lacrosse. If the schools there and in other big conferences jump in and add teams, will full funding even matter?
Consider hockey and how Penn State jumped in, in a huge way.
Maybe the lacrosse window for the likes of Lafayette is closing. Even this last bastion team sport of the upper-middle class/rich suburban kid may be beyond reach for the northeastern private colleges.
Lafayette has allowed the sports program to linger without attention and the bill has come due.


So our peer schools, Lehigh, Colgate, Bucknell can do it, but we can't ???



Bucknell has no athletic  scholarships for  men's lax, and the program is slowly slipping.   For that  matter, even Colgate and Lehigh - both of whom are close to fully-funded - have slipped the past two years.   It is getting tougher and tougher


 Size of school, state, private and availability of funding are factors which impact program success.  But make no mistake, the successful programs, Denver, Maryland, ND, Army, Yale, and now Rutgers have a couple of things which LC must include for program development.  

 Each program is fully funded, (Army in a different sense), Yale offering financial aid, have very good coaches, and most importantly, enjoy outstanding institutional support.   These programs are not alone, and even relatively new programs, like Monmouth and BU, receive institutional support.  I know this for a fact, that LC does not provide the institutional support necessary for any coach to be successful.   I can focus on two areas, logistics and financial aid, (financial aid outside of scholarships).  Our institutional timing is slow and cumbersome.  We recruit players from very fertile areas, including those in Northern NJ, Philly, and the greater Baltimore area.   We also recruit Chicago, California, and southern New England, with players from these areas on our roster.

But until such time that we have a program which has logistics, and cooperation from our administration, our coach will have limited success.  And I don't care who the coach is at the helm.

 I'm hopeful these two significant limitations, among others, that will be outlined in the upcoming consultants report.  And then we will find out whether our administration addresses these findings, which are critical to Lafayette College Men's lacrosse.
BPard

What do you mean by logistics?
Pardsfriend

Logistics

BPard wrote:
What do you mean by logistics?


 Scheduling facilities, availability of practice venues in inclement weather, feeding team personnel, making college equipment (example, scoreboard) available, and funding details necessary to administer these activities.
Marooner

bethlehempard wrote:
There are 61 D1 lacrosse schools versus 351 for MBB and a couple hundred with BCS/FBS/FCS football.
Only about half of the Big 10 schools (plus Hopkins) play lacrosse. If the schools there and in other big conferences jump in and add teams, will full funding even matter?
Consider hockey and how Penn State jumped in, in a huge way.
Maybe the lacrosse window for the likes of Lafayette is closing. Even this last bastion team sport of the upper-middle class/rich suburban kid may be beyond reach for the northeastern private colleges.
Lafayette has allowed the sports program to linger without attention and the bill has come due.

St. Bonaventure will be the 72nd Division I men's lacrosse team in 2019. The Big 10 and the ACC are 11 teams total and currently 10 of them are ranked. I feel like we're coming up on a tipping point for teams like Albany, Loyola, the Ivies, etc. These teams need to solidify their "major" status (like Gonzaga or pre-Big East Butler in men's basketball) before the big-time programs completely takeover the recruiting landscape and conferences like the Patriot, Ivy and CAA dip to the same status that they are in most sports.

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