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SoCalFan

2014 expectations

My son is taking his official recruiting trip this weekend to Lafayette.  He does have a scholarship offer.  What kind of season do you expect next year?  Do you expect to repeat?  Thanks.
Franks Tanks

CHAMPIONSHIP!

The Leopards should be good next year.  I think impartial observers would place Lafayette 2nd in the PL heading into next year behind Fordham. The Rams return the bulk of their team, and are top 5 potential,  With that being said we beat 'em in 2013, and are capable of doing the same in 2014.
flyfisher

Franks Tanks wrote:
CHAMPIONSHIP!

The Leopards should be good next year.  I think impartial observers would place Lafayette 2nd in the PL heading into next year behind Fordham. The Rams return the bulk of their team, and are top 5 potential,  With that being said we beat 'em in 2013, and are capable of doing the same in 2014.


Fair assessment FT. Good amount of talent returns. Need to fill some holes at lber. Return a lot of offensive firepower but need depth.  Excellent team chemistry and morale. Coaches are generally players coaches and kids enjoy playing for them.
BillS

Re: 2014 expectations

SoCalFan wrote:
My son is taking his official recruiting trip this weekend to Lafayette.  He does have a scholarship offer.  What kind of season do you expect next year?  Do you expect to repeat?  Thanks.
So CalFan we have another recruit from the San Diego that might be a commit, enjoy your visit.  Lafayette is great school and an Awesome football program with great facilities.
carney2

Re: 2014 expectations

SoCalFan wrote:
My son is taking his official recruiting trip this weekend to Lafayette.  He does have a scholarship offer.  What kind of season do you expect next year?  Do you expect to repeat?  Thanks.


The schedule is easier.
Starters returning at key positions.
The depth is improving.
The kids weathered some hard times in 2013 and came through.

Should be a good season.  One of our regulars on this board has stated that anything less than 8 wins would be a failure.  Not sure that I totally agree, but 8-3 or even better is a possibility.  On paper, the toughest games will be (in the order played) William & Mary, Fordham and Harvard, all on the road.  Anyway, you see where the thinking is at this point.
Zeus

Until Lafayette gets four full classes in, I'm not sure how you can expect this program to knock off full scholarship NEC teams, who can get anyone in to school they want.
All the first four games will be tough, as well as Harvard and Fordham, who bring back their BCS transfer QB, WRs, and already have enough scholarships to play teams like Temple, like this past season.

Lafayette will be fine,and are currently on great path but the notion they should be beating full scholly teams is a bit crazy to me. They will get there, but it will take years, not days.
carney2

Zeus wrote:
Until Lafayette gets four full classes in, I'm not sure how you can expect this program to knock off full scholarship NEC teams, who can get anyone in to school they want.
All the first four games will be tough, as well as Harvard and Fordham, who bring back their BCS transfer QB, WRs, and already have enough scholarships to play teams like Temple, like this past season.

Lafayette will be fine,and are currently on great path but the notion they should be beating full scholly teams is a bit crazy to me. They will get there, but it will take years, not days.


You're talking Sacred Heart, Robert Morris and Wagner.  Lafayette should legitimately be favored in each of these games.
carney2

And why is thread in the Recruiting section?
Franks Tanks

Zeus wrote:
Until Lafayette gets four full classes in, I'm not sure how you can expect this program to knock off full scholarship NEC teams, who can get anyone in to school they want.
All the first four games will be tough, as well as Harvard and Fordham, who bring back their BCS transfer QB, WRs, and already have enough scholarships to play teams like Temple, like this past season.

Lafayette will be fine,and are currently on great path but the notion they should be beating full scholly teams is a bit crazy to me. They will get there, but it will take years, not days.


Lafayette has played, and sometimes beat real full scholarship CAA teams over the years.  We should beat NEC teams, who only have 40 scholarships by the way.
Franks Tanks

carney2 wrote:
Zeus wrote:
Until Lafayette gets four full classes in, I'm not sure how you can expect this program to knock off full scholarship NEC teams, who can get anyone in to school they want.
All the first four games will be tough, as well as Harvard and Fordham, who bring back their BCS transfer QB, WRs, and already have enough scholarships to play teams like Temple, like this past season.

Lafayette will be fine,and are currently on great path but the notion they should be beating full scholly teams is a bit crazy to me. They will get there, but it will take years, not days.


You're talking Sacred Heart, Robert Morris and Wagner.  Lafayette should legitimately be favored in each of these games.


Sacred Heart will of course be a tough game, but winnable.  If we don't get 2 out of 3 against the NEC I will be severly dissapointed.
cr

Glad to see the pards are overlooking the Red Raiders.
Franks Tanks

cr wrote:
Glad to see the pards are overlooking the Red Raiders.


We are hopeful the Biddle curse has now ended!
Zeus

[quote="Franks Tanks:38151"][quote="Zeus:38147"]Until Lafayette gets four full classes in, I'm not sure how you can expect this program to knock off full scholarship NEC teams, who can get anyone in to school they want.
All the first four games will be tough, as well as Harvard and Fordham, who bring back their BCS transfer QB, WRs, and already have enough scholarships to play teams like Temple, like this past season.

Lafayette will be fine,and are currently on great path but the notion they should be beating full scholly teams is a bit crazy to me. They will get there, but it will take years, not days.[/quote]

Lafayette has played, and sometimes beat real full scholarship CAA teams over the years.  We should beat NEC teams, who only have 40 scholarships by the way.[/quote]

do you think Lafayette could sniff half of the kids who get into NEC schools?
flyfisher

carney2 wrote:
And why is thread in the Recruiting section?

Because that is where the parent of a recruit posted it.

Socalfan, as a parent of a player I can share a few things. I realize you asked how the team will be next year but focus on where the team is going as well as the school.

On the academic side, it's a great education. Classes are very small and professors are more accessible than you can imagine. No real grad assistants teaching classes. Good learning environment. School administration helpful and friendly. Usually easy to work through bumps in the road. Some tutoring available but maybe not as much as advertised. Nothing easy about the academics. Be repaired to manage your time and study. The patriot league is not a football factory.

Facilities are very good for football. Weight room is very nice as well as rehab and training areas. Head trainer is good. You spend more time with him than you do the position coach. You need to respect him. Everyone focuses on the head coach but you don't spend a ton of time with the head coach. The coordinators are well-respected by the kids and they enjoy playing for them. They actually care about the players as do the asst coaches. So does the head coach but you don't spend much time with him. However the kids do respect him and enjoy playing for him.

Coming from Southern California you will find Easton different however my son loves it and so do we and we are not from the northeast. The city has a lot of charm. Lots of old character, fun outdoor things to do in the summer (plan on summers in a Easton for training). Close to New York City and Philadelphia for anything you could want. Great rivalry with nearby Lehigh. Campus is beautiful with very appealing architecture. The whole environment promotes the college experience.

Lots of networking opportunities for future careers. Lots of influence in the northeast. Biggest surprise may have been the level of support from alumni. Lots of alumni close to the program that are very supportive of not just thermogram but also the kids. Each kid has a sponsor. Then you have the maws and paws group. Very close knit group. My oldest son plays in the Colonial conference and Lafayette swamps anything the do in support. Could not ask for a more supporting alumni group.

Everyone has to find what is right for them but Lafayette has been wonderful for my son and it was a huge change of environment for him. Hope you enjoy your official visit and good luck to your son in finding the right school for him. Go to Giacomo's and get a cheesesteak.
Franks Tanks

Zeus wrote:
Franks Tanks wrote:
Zeus wrote:
Until Lafayette gets four full classes in, I'm not sure how you can expect this program to knock off full scholarship NEC teams, who can get anyone in to school they want.
All the first four games will be tough, as well as Harvard and Fordham, who bring back their BCS transfer QB, WRs, and already have enough scholarships to play teams like Temple, like this past season.

Lafayette will be fine,and are currently on great path but the notion they should be beating full scholly teams is a bit crazy to me. They will get there, but it will take years, not days.


Lafayette has played, and sometimes beat real full scholarship CAA teams over the years.  We should beat NEC teams, who only have 40 scholarships by the way.


do you think Lafayette could sniff half of the kids who get into NEC schools?


No, but most kids at NEC schools would be at a PL school in a second if given the opportunity. I respect the NEC, and the level of football they play, but the better teams in the PL should beat NEC schools more often than not.  Thankfully the PL should pull away from the NEC again quickly.
carney2

Franks Tanks wrote:
the better teams in the PL should beat NEC schools more often than not.


What he said.

Not getting snooty here, but, "scholly" or not, the NEC is really way down the FCS food chain.  Without scholarships, the Patriot League was pretty much eating their lunch.  Not that the Pards should be taking them lightly, as RMU (2012) and Sacred Heart (2013) showed.  But, really, were those games we should have lost?
Franks Tanks

carney2 wrote:
Franks Tanks wrote:
the better teams in the PL should beat NEC schools more often than not.


What he said.

Not getting snooty here, but, "scholly" or not, the NEC is really way down the FCS food chain.  Without scholarships, the Patriot League was pretty much eating their lunch.  Not that the Pards should be taking them lightly, as RMU (2012) and Sacred Heart (2013) showed.  But, really, were those games we should have lost?


No, but there have been too many of those lately.  It wasn't just us either, as Lehigh and Colgate have also been tripped up by NEC competition a few times in the last decade or so.  I wonder if losses to NEC teams helped advance the scholarship discussion at some PL schools.
carney2

Franks Tanks wrote:
I wonder if losses to NEC teams helped advance the scholarship discussion at some PL schools.


No.  Fordham advanced the scholarship discussion.  It's that simple.
SoCalFan

flyfisher wrote:
carney2 wrote:
And why is thread in the Recruiting section?

Because that is where the parent of a recruit posted it.

Socalfan, as a parent of a player I can share a few things. I realize you asked how the team will be next year but focus on where the team is going as well as the school.

On the academic side, it's a great education. Classes are very small and professors are more accessible than you can imagine. No real grad assistants teaching classes. Good learning environment. School administration helpful and friendly. Usually easy to work through bumps in the road. Some tutoring available but maybe not as much as advertised. Nothing easy about the academics. Be repaired to manage your time and study. The patriot league is not a football factory.

Facilities are very good for football. Weight room is very nice as well as rehab and training areas. Head trainer is good. You spend more time with him than you do the position coach. You need to respect him. Everyone focuses on the head coach but you don't spend a ton of time with the head coach. The coordinators are well-respected by the kids and they enjoy playing for them. They actually care about the players as do the asst coaches. So does the head coach but you don't spend much time with him. However the kids do respect him and enjoy playing for him.

Coming from Southern California you will find Easton different however my son loves it and so do we and we are not from the northeast. The city has a lot of charm. Lots of old character, fun outdoor things to do in the summer (plan on summers in a Easton for training). Close to New York City and Philadelphia for anything you could want. Great rivalry with nearby Lehigh. Campus is beautiful with very appealing architecture. The whole environment promotes the college experience.

Lots of networking opportunities for future careers. Lots of influence in the northeast. Biggest surprise may have been the level of support from alumni. Lots of alumni close to the program that are very supportive of not just thermogram but also the kids. Each kid has a sponsor. Then you have the maws and paws group. Very close knit group. My oldest son plays in the Colonial conference and Lafayette swamps anything the do in support. Could not ask for a more supporting alumni group.

Everyone has to find what is right for them but Lafayette has been wonderful for my son and it was a huge change of environment for him. Hope you enjoy your official visit and good luck to your son in finding the right school for him. Go to Giacomo's and get a cheesesteak.



Thank you for a very thoughtful post.  It was much appreciated.  My wife is there with him and they both are having a terrific time.  My wife is a Bucknell graduate so we are familiar with the academics.  The small school environment is important to him.  He fell in love with the school tonight as the coach took him and my wife around.

The recruiting, while exciting, is stressful for most kids going through it.  He is looking forward to making a decision and moving forward with the next portion of his life.  I would be surprised if he didn't select the Pards this weekend.
seenalot

flyfisher wrote:

Socalfan, as a parent of a player I can share a few things. I realize you asked how the team will be next year but focus on where the team is going as well as the school.

On the academic side, it's a great education. Classes are very small and professors are more accessible than you can imagine. No real grad assistants teaching classes. Good learning environment. School administration helpful and friendly. Usually easy to work through bumps in the road. Some tutoring available but maybe not as much as advertised. Nothing easy about the academics. Be repaired to manage your time and study. The patriot league is not a football factory.

Facilities are very good for football. Weight room is very nice as well as rehab and training areas. Head trainer is good. You spend more time with him than you do the position coach. You need to respect him. Everyone focuses on the head coach but you don't spend a ton of time with the head coach. The coordinators are well-respected by the kids and they enjoy playing for them. They actually care about the players as do the asst coaches. So does the head coach but you don't spend much time with him. However the kids do respect him and enjoy playing for him.

Coming from Southern California you will find Easton different however my son loves it and so do we and we are not from the northeast. The city has a lot of charm. Lots of old character, fun outdoor things to do in the summer (plan on summers in a Easton for training). Close to New York City and Philadelphia for anything you could want. Great rivalry with nearby Lehigh. Campus is beautiful with very appealing architecture. The whole environment promotes the college experience.

Lots of networking opportunities for future careers. Lots of influence in the northeast. Biggest surprise may have been the level of support from alumni. Lots of alumni close to the program that are very supportive of not just thermogram but also the kids. Each kid has a sponsor. Then you have the maws and paws group. Very close knit group. My oldest son plays in the Colonial conference and Lafayette swamps anything the do in support. Could not ask for a more supporting alumni group.

Everyone has to find what is right for them but Lafayette has been wonderful for my son and it was a huge change of environment for him. Hope you enjoy your official visit and good luck to your son in finding the right school for him. Go to Giacomo's and get a cheesesteak.



Thank you for a very thoughtful post.  It was much appreciated.  My wife is there with him and they both are having a terrific time.  My wife is a Bucknell graduate so we are familiar with the academics.  The small school environment is important to him.  He fell in love with the school tonight as the coach took him and my wife around.

The recruiting, while exciting, is stressful for most kids going through it.  He is looking forward to making a decision and moving forward with the next portion of his life.  I would be surprised if he didn't select the Pards this weekend.

__________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________

I think Fly's post summed it up pretty nicely, especially as a current parent.  As an alum of the 70's I can only echo the part about alumni network and involvement - it works for the long term. Good luck with the choice - its stressful and a big deal - am sure he will do just fine.
Newleopardfan2

seenalot wrote:

I think Fly's post summed it up pretty nicely, especially as a current parent.  As an alum of the 70's I can only echo the part about alumni network and involvement - it works for the long term. Good luck with the choice - its stressful and a big deal - am sure he will do just fine.


SoCalFan - Agree with all said, and glad your kid loves the place on his visit. Full disclosure would be that the alumni network is strong in the northeast but still pretty thin in SoCal where LC is relatively unknown. Your wife probably sees that even as a Bucknell alum. But I think the current administration will be trying to work on that. Good luck with the choices and hope to see you on this board in years to come!
Pard4Life

Re: 2014 expectations

carney2 wrote:
SoCalFan wrote:
My son is taking his official recruiting trip this weekend to Lafayette.  He does have a scholarship offer.  What kind of season do you expect next year?  Do you expect to repeat?  Thanks.


The schedule is easier.
Starters returning at key positions.
The depth is improving.
The kids weathered some hard times in 2013 and came through.

Should be a good season.  One of our regulars on this board has stated that anything less than 8 wins would be a failure.  Not sure that I totally agree, but 8-3 or even better is a possibility.  On paper, the toughest games will be (in the order played) William & Mary, Fordham and Harvard, all on the road.  Anyway, you see where the thinking is at this point.


Yes, that was me.  Anything less than 8-3 will be a disappointment.  And not beating Lehigh of course.  Wagner lost to a D2 team last season!  Things change quickly but still, we should be beating these teams.  Even in our drunken Frankosaurus state in Game 1 vs. Sacred Heart, a 10-2 playoff team, we nearly won... oh wait, we did win the game.  Not according to the officials though.  Robert Morris is not the greatest either...

Once Reed came into the game vs. Harvard, we were mopping them all over the field.  Defensively, we played as well as one could expect vs. that team... I was surprised we contained their edge runs well.  The offense lost us that game in the first half.  

Not sure we will tab Fordham again.. they will be ready.  And WM is just simply very physical.
Pard4Life

Welcome aboard SoCalFan... hope you and your son will have a great experience at Lafayette.

That said, I would like to offer you this brief orientation:

Hate these guys:  

How to refer to those guys:  Fountain Fowl, Fowl, Brown Stain, the Stain, Saucon Swine (sports complex is in Saucon Valley), the Taunters, Chicken Squawks, Squawks... a few dozen others I can't recall...

How to engage those guys:  Remember that the conversation always comes back to them and their superiority... the conversation will ultimately steer that direction.  Also, whenever Lehigh is not a league champion or is having a down year, the Patriot League is considered 'weak.'

Our history and heritage:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette_Leopards_football

The Rivalry:  [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehigh-Lafayette_football_games_(The_Rivalry)[/url]

It's referred to as "Lafayette-Lehigh"  despite the popular way of saying it the other way... 1) We have more wins 2) alphabetically correct  3) We won the first game 4) our school is older by several decades.

Our cousins:  

We also don't really like:  

Order of animosity around here:

1)  Lehigh
2)  Penn (a distant second)
3) Colgate
Honorable mention:  Georgetown, Harvard, Princeton

carney2's order of animosity and for most people:

1) Lehigh
2) Lehigh
3) Lehigh

The Ivy Curse:  supposedly there is an Ivy League curse around here... we find a way to lose or bizarre things happen a-la Steve Bartman or black cats running onto the field.  However, some are doubtful, including myself.   You cannot deny though that we somehow struggle against the Ivy, our primary out of conference foes, despite our league mates often beating the Ivy.  We have Penn's number by having won five of the last seven games, all spurred by a Penn intentional safety that backfired dramatically in 2007.  Forget about beating Princeton... four wins since 1884... 1909, 1982, 2000, 2003... bizarre things happen here but one can write a tome of our strategic errors in this game.

The Patriot:

Bucknell: won the first Orange Bowl, they do not take football seriously says popular thought, but recently, they are pumping money into the program, and they have had the best defesne the past few years.

Holy Cross: fans are always talking about the glory years of Gordie Lockbaum, but HC is usually a tough team when they have a mobile QB in their system, which they have.  Games against them are always close and dramatic.

Fordham: legendary team of Lombardi, started giving scholarships in 2009 before everyone else and is probably why the rest of the PL went that route.  Thank you Fordham.  Their reward was title ineligibility until 2014.  Schollies did nothing for them until they got their current transfer QB and head coach from UConn two years ago.  

Colgate:  Loathed Dick Biddle is gone after 17 years.  Still, we cannot stop these guys on offense.. ever... carney2 can explain.  We surrender an average of 32 points vs. Colgate or something like that.. and their RB and QB rush for 400+ yards combined... no sarcasm.  They play dirty too.  Title usually comes down to games vs. Gate and Lehigh.

Georgetown: The loathed step-child... but we have lost three of four to them in our down years.  Truly embarrassing.  Then there was the "Verizon FIOs" game.  They do not fund the program and are the only PL team not awarding schollies (at this time)... they were awful under the need-based system, so it will not be pretty.  Games vs. Gtown are closer than they should be..
Bogus Megapardus

`






First things first.
carney2

Pard4Life wrote:

Hate these guys:  

How to refer to those guys:  Fountain Fowl, Fowl, Brown Stain, the Stain, Saucon Swine (sports complex is in Saucon Valley), the Taunters, Chicken Squawks, Squawks... a few dozen others I can't recall...

carney2's order of animosity and for most people:

1) Lehigh
2) Lehigh
3) Lehigh

The Ivy Curse:  supposedly there is an Ivy League curse around here...


Nicely done, P4L.  A recruit's primer.  It should be distributed to all signees after February 5th.  Anyway, SoCal, consider this the beginning of your education.  Clarification:

Lehigh is not an important game; it's not a rivalry; it is a hate fest.  It's the only game!!!!!  All the others are preseason.  Back in the days before Bogie deserted us for his national (AGS) audience, this board bordered on the lunatic beginning the Sunday before THE Game.  A former player who posted under the moniker Pard94, and who we haven't heard from in a while, would almost literally convey that he was frothing at the mouth during that week.  Most here have been experiencing a warm glow since about 3:45 this past November 23rd.  It will last until the aforementioned upcoming Sunday in November.  Over on Squawk Mountain, not so much.  They will be pi$$in' and moanin' until that same day.  IF IT'S BROWN FLUSH IT DOWN!

The Curse (note the use of caps in both words) is not an Ivy curse as P4L mistakenly states.  There are 8 teams we traditionally do not beat:  the Ivys, sans Columbia, plus Colgate.  Despite our recent success vs. Pennsylvania even that series is incredibly lopsided in Penn's favor.  Princeton, as P4L hints, is the poster child for The Curse.  They don't have to be good.  They just need to show up.  We've been playing them since 1882 (not every year) and have won exactly 4 times.  Since we have to play Colgate every year, they are worth a special mention.  This past year the entire coaching staff succumbed to The Curse and got themselves a one way ticket to Stupid.  It was over early and over often.  The year before that, in what should have been a competitive game, 'gate scored on every possession save one (I think their final, run out the clock, possession) en route to an all-time Patriot League record for total offense.  Lafayette defensive coordinator John Loose has been trying to stop that offense for 14 years with no success.
flyfisher

As to next year, while we should be better, so should others. I tend to lean toward realistic with a slight slant toward optimism.

Colgate will be better and we play them away. have to figure out a way to beat them
William and Mary will be even better.
Fordham will not back up. They are good
Bucknell will be improved and we play at their place.
Lehigh will be much improved.
Harvard is Harvard. No easy game there.
Only 4 home games and 2 are OOC and 2 are against weaker PL teams.

next year we have a terrible schedule.
carney2

flyfisher wrote:
As to next year, while we should be better, so should others. I tend to lean toward realistic with a slight slant toward optimism.

Colgate will be better and we play them away. have to figure out a way to beat them
William and Mary will be even better.
Fordham will not back up. They are good
Bucknell will be improved and we play at their place.
Lehigh will be much improved.
Harvard is Harvard. No easy game there.
Only 4 home games and 2 are OOC and 2 are against weaker PL teams.

next year we have a terrible schedule.


P4L's 8-3 may be a stretch, but I take issue with some of what you say:

COLGATE is always a problem for us and November on the Tundra can be purgatory.  To say that they will be better without McCarney may be a stretch however.  True that he spent much of the year injured, but he looked about 100% against Lafayette.  They have an OK running back, but the quarterbacking will not be up to the standards set by McCarney and, before him, Greg Sullivan.  That two back run-read option requires that both backs be above average to work properly.  In summary, they won't be a pushover, but they won't necessarily be better.

W&M went 7-5 last year and blew us out of the water.  I'm not convinced they will be that much better, but do they need to be?  I expect us to be more competitive this September, but a win will not be easy.

FORDHAM will go as far as QB Nebrich can take them.  I honestly don't expect them to lose only one regular season game again.  A big mountain for us to climb on the road.

Bucknell (without Wesley) and Lehigh (without Bialkowski) will be neither improved nor much improved.  I would not, however, expect to see the incompetence displayed by Lehigh this past November to be repeated at Yankee Stadium.  Which is to say that I don't expect them to be what they were for the 2013 season, but I do expect them to show up in the Bronx.

Despite what one poster says about "schollies," all of the NEC games are quite winnable, and even Harvard is not quite the stretch it's been in the recent past.  If Mickey Fein can play wisely with his new toy (Reed), and The Frankosaurus can pop a few sedatives, this should be a good year and could be a very good year with what you call a terrible schedule.
Andy

carney2 wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
As to next year, while we should be better, so should others. I tend to lean toward realistic with a slight slant toward optimism.

Colgate will be better and we play them away. have to figure out a way to beat them
William and Mary will be even better.
Fordham will not back up. They are good
Bucknell will be improved and we play at their place.
Lehigh will be much improved.
Harvard is Harvard. No easy game there.
Only 4 home games and 2 are OOC and 2 are against weaker PL teams.

next year we have a terrible schedule.


P4L's 8-3 may be a stretch, but I take issue with some of what you say:

COLGATE is always a problem for us and November on the Tundra can be purgatory.  To say that they will be better without McCarney may be a stretch however.  True that he spent much of the year injured, but he looked about 100% against Lafayette.  They have an OK running back, but the quarterbacking will not be up to the standards set by McCarney and, before him, Greg Sullivan.  That two back run-read option requires that both backs be above average to work properly.  In summary, they won't be a pushover, but they won't necessarily be better.

W&M went 7-5 last year and blew us out of the water.  I'm not convinced they will be that much better, but do they need to be?  I expect us to be more competitive this September, but a win will not be easy.

FORDHAM will go as far as QB Nebrich can take them.  I honestly don't expect them to lose only one regular season game again.  A big mountain for us to climb on the road.

Bucknell (without Wesley) and Lehigh (without Bialkowski) will be neither improved nor much improved.  I would not, however, expect to see the incompetence displayed by Lehigh this past November to be repeated at Yankee Stadium.  Which is to say that I don't expect them to be what they were for the 2013 season, but I do expect them to show up in the Bronx.

Despite what one poster says about "schollies," all of the NEC games are quite winnable, and even Harvard is not quite the stretch it's been in the recent past.  If Mickey Fein can play wisely with his new toy (Reed), and The Frankosaurus can pop a few sedatives, this should be a good year and could be a very good year with what you call a terrible schedule.


Just a note, Gate has a big RB, a former back up at Don Dosco, who was injured last year, whom they seem to be high on.  QB competition there should be interesting.
RichH

Andy
   A '15 for you

Andrew McElroy   LB  New Milford NJ LC made school visit today
carney2

Andy wrote:
Just a note, Gate has a big RB, a former back up at Don Dosco, who was injured last year, whom they seem to be high on.  QB competition there should be interesting.


They do seem to keep coming up there, don't they.  Still, unless Dan Hunt plans to break the mold, that offense requires two to tango.  QB cannot be just a warm body in that that two back run-read.  Jordan Scott and Nick Eachus had the benefit of sharing the backfield with Sullivan and McCarney.  Scott also had the benefit of big time receiver Pat Simonds to take some of the pressure off.  The new phenom RB may be something of a lone ranger, at least for this year.  Last year's 4-8 was not up to the 'gate's usual high standards and, with the OL they recruited last year, they should be better.  But, how much better?

Let me add one thing about W&M.  They are traditionally a middle of the pack CAA team.  Frankly, and even without red-shirts, this is exactly the type of program that we should be able to beat with scholarships.  Unfortunately, two years does not a scholarship program make.
Tribe4SF

carney2 wrote:
Let me add one thing about W&M.  They are traditionally a middle of the pack CAA team.  Frankly, and even without red-shirts, this is exactly the type of program that we should be able to beat with scholarships.  Unfortunately, two years does not a scholarship program make.


Well, you beat us two years ago without scholarships.

Tribe success next fall still hinges on QB situation. Two guys who missed all of 2013 will hopefully compete this spring. They are both at a different level than the guys who played in 2013. The rest of the team will be as good, or better than last year. Defense will again be very strong with four all-CAA guys back and good depth. All of the RBs and WRs return, and OL brings up two redshirt freshmen who are very good. If we get a QB on the field this may be one of our best teams ever.
Bogus Megapardus

Tribe4SF wrote:
Well, you beat us two years ago without scholarships.


Yes, and we're still out there trying to recruit an hour-long lightning delay for this season as well.  No success yet but we still have Oklahoma and the southern Missouri region yet to cover.
ELB

Tribe4SF wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Let me add one thing about W&M.  They are traditionally a middle of the pack CAA team.  Frankly, and even without red-shirts, this is exactly the type of program that we should be able to beat with scholarships.  Unfortunately, two years does not a scholarship program make.


Well, you beat us two years ago without scholarships.

Tribe success next fall still hinges on QB situation. Two guys who missed all of 2013 will hopefully compete this spring. They are both at a different level than the guys who played in 2013. The rest of the team will be as good, or better than last year. Defense will again be very strong with four all-CAA guys back and good depth. All of the RBs and WRs return, and OL brings up two redshirt freshmen who are very good. If we get a QB on the field this may be one of our best teams ever.

Haven't tried to verify this - but I saw a quote on the AGS forum that William and Mary redshirted all 23 members of their freshman class last year.  If true, it is pretty hard to compete against that!  (Also if true, it is a demonstration of the school's value of winning at sports over the importance of the kids' academic lives).
Franks Tanks

ELB wrote:
Tribe4SF wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Let me add one thing about W&M.  They are traditionally a middle of the pack CAA team.  Frankly, and even without red-shirts, this is exactly the type of program that we should be able to beat with scholarships.  Unfortunately, two years does not a scholarship program make.


Well, you beat us two years ago without scholarships.

Tribe success next fall still hinges on QB situation. Two guys who missed all of 2013 will hopefully compete this spring. They are both at a different level than the guys who played in 2013. The rest of the team will be as good, or better than last year. Defense will again be very strong with four all-CAA guys back and good depth. All of the RBs and WRs return, and OL brings up two redshirt freshmen who are very good. If we get a QB on the field this may be one of our best teams ever.

Haven't tried to verify this - but I saw a quote on the AGS forum that William and Mary redshirted all 23 members of their freshman class last year.  If true, it is pretty hard to compete against that!  (Also if true, it is a demonstration of the school's value of winning at sports over the importance of the kids' academic lives).


Not all of those kids will take a 5th year (and it is usually just one extra semester).  Some will simply decide to leave after 4 years, and others will not be welcomed back (W&M may be a better with this than other programs).

A good portion of the kids at W&M will use that extra semester to take graduate classes.  I understand how red-shirting can be viewed as putting sports 1st, but if done correctly it can help athletes manage work loads, or even get a few grad classes paid for.


I agree that red-shirting will always be an issue.  Imagine if we had Mark Ross, Mike Boles and Brandon Hall coming back next year.  It would be a very different team.
ELB

The irrefutable truth as to why any college football team redshirts its entire freshman class is in the numbers.  Sort it out.
Bogus Megapardus

Redshirting also would destroy the much-touted 4-year graduation rate. Lafayette can't keep the grad students.  Even if the PL permitted automatic redshirting I don't think we'd do it.  Lehigh and Georgetown are the only schools really in a position to benefit from redshirting and playing graduate students.
Bogus Megapardus

ELB wrote:
The irrefutable truth as to why any college football team redshirts its entire freshman class is in the numbers.  Sort it out.


http://articles.dailypress.com/20...-commissioner-tom-yeager-athletes
Tribe4SF

Franks Tanks wrote:
ELB wrote:
Tribe4SF wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Let me add one thing about W&M.  They are traditionally a middle of the pack CAA team.  Frankly, and even without red-shirts, this is exactly the type of program that we should be able to beat with scholarships.  Unfortunately, two years does not a scholarship program make.


Well, you beat us two years ago without scholarships.

Tribe success next fall still hinges on QB situation. Two guys who missed all of 2013 will hopefully compete this spring. They are both at a different level than the guys who played in 2013. The rest of the team will be as good, or better than last year. Defense will again be very strong with four all-CAA guys back and good depth. All of the RBs and WRs return, and OL brings up two redshirt freshmen who are very good. If we get a QB on the field this may be one of our best teams ever.

Haven't tried to verify this - but I saw a quote on the AGS forum that William and Mary redshirted all 23 members of their freshman class last year.  If true, it is pretty hard to compete against that!  (Also if true, it is a demonstration of the school's value of winning at sports over the importance of the kids' academic lives).


Not all of those kids will take a 5th year (and it is usually just one extra semester).  Some will simply decide to leave after 4 years, and others will not be welcomed back (W&M may be a better with this than other programs).

A good portion of the kids at W&M will use that extra semester to take graduate classes.  I understand how red-shirting can be viewed as putting sports 1st, but if done correctly it can help athletes manage work loads, or even get a few grad classes paid for.


I agree that red-shirting will always be an issue.  Imagine if we had Mark Ross, Mike Boles and Brandon Hall coming back next year.  It would be a very different team.


The freshman class was 25 and they did indeed all redshirt. In recent memory we have never played more than two freshman. The system at W&M works well for redshirts, and you are right that many are in grad school the fifth year. Most graduate in nine semesters, having also used summer school to manage their academic load.
RichH

Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.
BillS

RichH wrote:
Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.
Red shirting will never happen in the PL !
RichH

BillS wrote:
RichH wrote:
Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.
Red shirting will never happen in the PL !


Probably. Well we can then follow the SUNY Ithaca model and just send our frosh to Carbon County JC or a year. Yup dat's the answer. Wink
carney2

RichH wrote:
Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.


Wrong!!  Redshirting in the Patriot League would seriously slant the playing field in the direction of Fordham and Lehigh.  (Nothing will help Georgetown until they decide to help themselves.)  They are the only League football members with viable graduate programs, and therefore the only ones who could offer an academic advantage to staying for that extra year.

I have never understood the NCAA rules that allow a school like W&M to have 5 classes of athletes on scholarship, but only 4 of them count toward the mandated maximum of 63.  Someone I'm sure can explain it, but it will still smack of rule by chimpanzee.
Tribe4SF

carney2 wrote:
RichH wrote:
Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.


Wrong!!  Redshirting in the Patriot League would seriously slant the playing field in the direction of Fordham and Lehigh.  (Nothing will help Georgetown until they decide to help themselves.)  They are the only League football members with viable graduate programs, and therefore the only ones who could offer an academic advantage to staying for that extra year.

I have never understood the NCAA rules that allow a school like W&M to have 5 classes of athletes on scholarship, but only 4 of them count toward the mandated maximum of 63.  Someone I'm sure can explain it, but it will still smack of rule by chimpanzee.


All five classes count towards the 63. That's why you never see W&M sign more than 15 kids per year. Last year it was 12. This year 14.
Bogus Megapardus

The quaint, antiquated assumption in the PL is that (a) students go to college for 4 years and then earn a degree; and (b) football players are students.
RichH

Carney
Only the Ivies avoid the 63 max. No red shirts but some avoid by getting kids to leave school, JC then come back. So basically only PL actually enforces a red shirt rule.
Andy

Tribe4SF wrote:
carney2 wrote:
RichH wrote:
Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.


Wrong!!  Redshirting in the Patriot League would seriously slant the playing field in the direction of Fordham and Lehigh.  (Nothing will help Georgetown until they decide to help themselves.)  They are the only League football members with viable graduate programs, and therefore the only ones who could offer an academic advantage to staying for that extra year.

I have never understood the NCAA rules that allow a school like W&M to have 5 classes of athletes on scholarship, but only 4 of them count toward the mandated maximum of 63.  Someone I'm sure can explain it, but it will still smack of rule by chimpanzee.


All five classes count towards the 63. That's why you never see W&M sign more than 15 kids per year. Last year it was 12. This year 14.


Now I'm totally lost. I've tried reading the NCAA Manual, came away with the understanding that aid doesn't "count" until the player actually plays in a game.  I dread re-reading that thing.
Tribe4SF

Andy wrote:
Tribe4SF wrote:
carney2 wrote:
RichH wrote:
Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.


Wrong!!  Redshirting in the Patriot League would seriously slant the playing field in the direction of Fordham and Lehigh.  (Nothing will help Georgetown until they decide to help themselves.)  They are the only League football members with viable graduate programs, and therefore the only ones who could offer an academic advantage to staying for that extra year.

I have never understood the NCAA rules that allow a school like W&M to have 5 classes of athletes on scholarship, but only 4 of them count toward the mandated maximum of 63.  Someone I'm sure can explain it, but it will still smack of rule by chimpanzee.


All five classes count towards the 63. That's why you never see W&M sign more than 15 kids per year. Last year it was 12. This year 14.


Now I'm totally lost. I've tried reading the NCAA Manual, came away with the understanding that aid doesn't "count" until the player actually plays in a game.  I dread re-reading that thing.


As I understand it scholarship players are counters from day 1 when they arrive. If a player is receiving need based aid, or academic scholarship, they count when they play.
Andy

Tribe4SF wrote:
Andy wrote:
Tribe4SF wrote:
carney2 wrote:
RichH wrote:
Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.


Wrong!!  Redshirting in the Patriot League would seriously slant the playing field in the direction of Fordham and Lehigh.  (Nothing will help Georgetown until they decide to help themselves.)  They are the only League football members with viable graduate programs, and therefore the only ones who could offer an academic advantage to staying for that extra year.

I have never understood the NCAA rules that allow a school like W&M to have 5 classes of athletes on scholarship, but only 4 of them count toward the mandated maximum of 63.  Someone I'm sure can explain it, but it will still smack of rule by chimpanzee.


All five classes count towards the 63. That's why you never see W&M sign more than 15 kids per year. Last year it was 12. This year 14.


Now I'm totally lost. I've tried reading the NCAA Manual, came away with the understanding that aid doesn't "count" until the player actually plays in a game.  I dread re-reading that thing.


As I understand it scholarship players are counters from day 1 when they arrive. If a player is receiving need based aid, or academic scholarship, they count when they play.


So Tribe, do you take advantage of that, bring in need based walk-ons?  They can fill in your roster for practice purposes, and then if deemed worthy, given scholarship money.  It doesnt sound as if you do it that way.
RichH

Basically correct Tribe but even need based count if they are recruited players,If I read it correctly Rolling Eyes
Bogus Megapardus

Bruce McC. probably knows what W&M does.  After all, he's one of them.

My guess at the probable Coach T. attitude on this:  "I don't give a flying fandoogle what they do down there.  I just want to beat them."

Thankfully, we're here to handle all of the necessary and essential hand-wringing for him.  Rolling Eyes
Tribe4SF

Andy wrote:
Tribe4SF wrote:
Andy wrote:
Tribe4SF wrote:
carney2 wrote:
RichH wrote:
Red, grey shirting can be abused solely to benefit Fball. Done properly, ie W & M, can enhance both.
PL ban , an Ivy Lite remnant, serves little purpose other than as one of our cost containment rules.


Wrong!!  Redshirting in the Patriot League would seriously slant the playing field in the direction of Fordham and Lehigh.  (Nothing will help Georgetown until they decide to help themselves.)  They are the only League football members with viable graduate programs, and therefore the only ones who could offer an academic advantage to staying for that extra year.

I have never understood the NCAA rules that allow a school like W&M to have 5 classes of athletes on scholarship, but only 4 of them count toward the mandated maximum of 63.  Someone I'm sure can explain it, but it will still smack of rule by chimpanzee.


All five classes count towards the 63. That's why you never see W&M sign more than 15 kids per year. Last year it was 12. This year 14.


Now I'm totally lost. I've tried reading the NCAA Manual, came away with the understanding that aid doesn't "count" until the player actually plays in a game.  I dread re-reading that thing.


As I understand it scholarship players are counters from day 1 when they arrive. If a player is receiving need based aid, or academic scholarship, they count when they play.


So Tribe, do you take advantage of that, bring in need based walk-ons?  They can fill in your roster for practice purposes, and then if deemed worthy, given scholarship money.  It doesnt sound as if you do it that way.


We take some, but most of our walk-ons are paying.
Bogus Megapardus

Lafayette tuition (exclusive of room, board and fees) - $43,580

W&M tuition (in-state; exclusive of room, board and fees) - $10,428
flyfisher

a few of you are dealing with some bad information on redshirting and greyshirting.
Tribe4SF

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Lafayette tuition (exclusive of room, board and fees) - $43,580

W&M tuition (in-state; exclusive of room, board and fees) - $10,428


Yep. We get a lot of good walk-ons in-state. Lang Campbell - 2004 Walter Payton Award was one.

http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/col...lues-in-public-colleges/index.php
Tribe4SF

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Bruce McC. probably knows what W&M does.  After all, he's one of them.

My guess at the probable Coach T. attitude on this:  "I don't give a flying fandoogle what they do down there.  I just want to beat them."

Thankfully, we're here to handle all of the necessary and essential hand-wringing for him.  Rolling Eyes


You're a busy guy for the program. Handling cages, restraints AND hand-wringing!

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