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       Lafayette Sports Fan Forum Forum Index -> Men's Basketball
carney2

@ Metro

Probably the end of a very disappointing season, but that Loyola announcer likes the Pards' chances.  He expects an entertaining, high scoring game.  In any event, let's pray for no repeat of that roll over and die performance the last time we didn't play up there.
seenalot

Silence on this board about last nights win speaks volumes about just how disappointing the season has been.  Feels like we just want it to be over.  Hope the team does not play that way.

All depends on what team shows up.  Stay close on the boards and shoot reasonably well (no one expecting more of last night) and we can win this and any other game in the PL.  Go el foldo in either area and its a quiet final bus ride home to Easton.

Would be ironic if the two PL titles we win this year are with teams that have sub-500 records.  But I'd be happy to see the irony.
Kpard

We just do not match up well here. We will have to really play some D, keep them off the offensive boards, and shoot well to win it. You never know with FOH. He just seems to steal minutes with personnel. Musters played 18 mins. and was 2-2 from the field and got some rebounds. The Hoffman kid keeps getting better and Lindner has changed my mind about him over the last few weeks.
If we can get by this one, watch out!
Long Time Fan

[quote="seenalot:39571"]Silence on this board about last nights win speaks volumes about just how disappointing the season has been.  Feels like we just want it to be over.  Hope the team does not play that way.

All depends on what team shows up.  Stay close on the boards and shoot reasonably well (no one expecting more of last night) and we can win this and any other game in the PL.  Go el foldo in either area and its a quiet final bus ride home to Easton.

You have just about said it all right here.
Pard4Life

Well, it's good that we were not the first college basketball team to conclude their season last night.  We have the earliest start date.

I didn't think we'd show-up last night, but it's over tomorrow anyhow.
leopard88

Pard4Life wrote:
I didn't think we'd show-up last night, but it's over tomorrow anyhow.


What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Kpard

leopard88 wrote:
Pard4Life wrote:
I didn't think we'd show-up last night, but it's over tomorrow anyhow.


What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!


That's right!

Greyhounds -DEAD!

Terriers - DEAD!
Lafalum

No doubt in mind……third time the charm because we play smarter basketball!!
leopard88

Kpard wrote:
leopard88 wrote:
Pard4Life wrote:
I didn't think we'd show-up last night, but it's over tomorrow anyhow.


What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!


That's right!

Greyhounds -DEAD!

Terriers - DEAD!


Let's . . . do it!!!
carney2

We're being out-quicked.
carney2

Another blowout in the making.  Metro up by 15 at the half.
Kpard

Too quick, too athletic, not a good match up at all. Watson is killing us, and oh joy, he's a sophomore. SIGH!
bethlehempard

The third 20-loss season since 2006-07 is on its way. The same squad will take the floor next year.
Maybe Musters will push Trist for minutes next year. Maybe Joe can shoot better? Something has to give.
Also the last season with three 30-point losses was 2006-7.
Things need to change. What specifically? I don't know.
Kpard

Can't watch anymore it is now playground time. I don't ever want to criticize any individuals, so, I just stick with the fact that this was a real disappointment.
Pard4Life

I stopped watching with five minutes to go in the first half.

Bethlehempard, things that need to change:

1) Recruiting
2) Stop relying on the three so much, which goes back to 1
3) Interior aggressive presence, which goes back to 1
Lafalum

Pard4Life wrote:
I stopped watching with five minutes to go in the first half.

Bethlehempard, things that need to change:

1) Recruiting
2) Stop relying on the three so much, which goes back to 1
3) Interior aggressive presence, which goes back to 1


I would also add some speed and quick hands on defense. We gave away to many turnovers just on Boston reaching in. BU has now set the standard that all the other PL teams will need to reach for. I switched back forth between the other games. There is no other PL team that can beat this team.
LC Fan

If we had any sort of inside presence, the threes on offense would open up. This year dumping the ball down was ineffective because no team ever needed to double down. On defense, we had no one who could defend the rim. We were heavily outscored in the paint and the number of layups and put backs we allowed was ridiculous. Obviously we need to recruit better--real D1 players.
ed65

Frankly, after seeing the Met College team, I don't think they belong in the PL. Then there was the attendance: 915 rabid Terrier fans.  Unbelievable.

Met College is a team on an entirely different level than LC.  Trist and Lindner were completely overmatched.  But the skill level of Met was simply far and above the Leopards.  With a team like that in the PL, Fran is going to have to recruit completely different types of players and the admissions dept. will have to help as well.  That game IMHO marks a major turning point for LC Basketball.  I would expect some major changes over the next few years unless BU is forced to stop with the Met College nonsense.
bethlehempard

Boston is a problem but the big problem is in Easton. Lafayette did not sweep one league opponent in our friendly little one-bid conference.
We were swept by Army, Boston and Colgate.
Yes Colgate.
Boston was 3-0 with an average spread of 27 points.
I would pick the wins over American, Lehigh and Loyola as high points, and even the win over Penn.
Immaculata revived the curse of Mercyhurst.
Things can't get any worse. There's something positive!
Lafalum

With all due respect to my fellow posters I have yet to see specific evidence that the Boston University basketball players were admits from Met College. I also don't see evidence that in the future BU won't follow the rules of the league regarding redshirting and the AI. Boston is an urban school with a talented coach that doesn't have football to claim a lot of resources so they can concentrate on basketball and ice hockey as their premier sports.

The major problem is in easton as others have posted. People,,, we are in a year where not one team.. NOT ONE.. has a winning record. Now maybe women's basketball will surprise and win out in the tournament and post a winning record or women's lacrosse has a great season. We will see.

Football has had a great recruiting season and there is potential for next year …I hope we see all that potential mature. But our problems are located on college hill and in our leadership for the last 20 years, not on Commonwealth Ave in Boston.

Last night we received an old fashion beat down by a superior team….we have a lot of questions and should concentrate on what we are doing and how we manage our own affairs. We need a "reset" in most everything we do.

Our new mantra should be, "WINNING MATTERS."  If we adopt that our whole approach would be different. We don't need to compromise our values but to the people in charge there will be a different emphasis.
Andy

Evidence, lafalum? Read their bios.  Irving is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in sociology."  Watson is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in criminal justice."  They also have non-MetCol "communications" majors.  Femovich should meet face to face with our players and explain to them why they were put in the situation they were in last night in their own league tournament.  What was the urgency to have BU competing THIS YEAR with MetCol players?  Elite academic league. What a joke.

Congrats Joey and Seth:

Patriot League Scholar-Athlete of the Year: Jesse Reed, American (So.)

Men's Basketball Academic All-Patriot League Team
Brian Fitzpatrick, Bucknell (Gr.)
Seth Hinrichs, Lafayette (Jr.)
Joey Ptasinski, Lafayette (Jr.)
Jesse Reed, American (So.)
Franz Rassman, Loyola (So.)
Long Time Fan

Our new mantra should be, "WINNING MATTERS."  If we adopt that our whole approach would be different. We don't need to compromise our values but to the people in charge there will be a different emphasis.[/quote]

Not going to happen at Lafayette.  This requires an administration and BOT that cares what happens on the fields and courts.  Not going to happen at Lafayette.
Long Time Fan

Pard4Life wrote:
I stopped watching with five minutes to go in the first half.

Bethlehempard, things that need to change:

1) Recruiting
2) Stop relying on the three so much, which goes back to 1
3) Interior aggressive presence, which goes back to 1


I think you're on track here with what needs to change but it's not going to happen until FOH is gone.  Maybe the next guy will see the need to change the way Lafayette recruits but FOH is too set in his ways and too comfortable with the current situation.
SixtyEighter

I couldn't agree with Lafalum more. What other "D1" college tolerates losing like Lafayette. Read the web site - All you see is PR about what great students our athletes are . Stanford, Notre Dame Georgia Tech  and many others have successful athletic teams - even Lehigh and Colgate - without suffering academically.Obviously a college of Lafayette's size can't dominate its league but it would be possible to compete for real rather than in the minds of the Athletic Information department. I have probably posted this before but I have been a Lafayette sports follower since I was brought to my first game at Fisher Field in 1952 or 1953. On reflection I have witnessed an incalculable number of losses over those years.This year alone if you add up the football loses the boy's basketball loses and the women's losses it's a ridiculous number for just three sports in one year and the women aren't finished . And unless the women "win out " all 3 major sports teams will have losing records with "500" attainable by the women only if they win the league tournament - Even if they win the league they will never win the NCAA tournament so even by a miracle they can finish only 1 game over "500" at best .
Lafalum

Andy wrote:
Evidence, lafalum? Read their bios.  Irving is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in sociology."  Watson is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in criminal justice."  They also have non-MetCol "communications" majors.  Femovich should meet face to face with our players and explain to them why they were put in the situation they were in last night in their own league tournament.  What was the urgency to have BU competing THIS YEAR with MetCol players?  Elite academic league. What a joke.

Congrats Joey and Seth:

Patriot League Scholar-Athlete of the Year: Jesse Reed, American (So.)

Men's Basketball Academic All-Patriot League Team
Brian Fitzpatrick, Bucknell (Gr.)
Seth Hinrichs, Lafayette (Jr.)
Joey Ptasinski, Lafayette (Jr.)
Jesse Reed, American (So.)
Franz Rassman, Loyola (So.)


Watson is in the school of general studies not Met College. As I read it Met College is different than General Studies. As a student in General Studies, students go there before deciding on a major. Irving is a senior in Met College. Many members of the team are in general studies which I don't find offensive in the first two years for a student. Now are we tougher  academically, perhaps. But maybe we should have business majors and an education major.

In  any case, we have to find a way to deal with it.
Bogus Megapardus

Lafalum wrote:
In  any case, we have to find a way to deal with it.


Sure - we could dodge the AI by assembling a roster exclusively through transfers from "University of Phoenix."  That would level the playing floor with American U. and Metropolitan C.  But does anybody really want to go there?

I'd rather split off with the original PL members and form our own conference, much the way the Big East did.

In any event - Go Crusaders!
Bogus Megapardus

Lafalum wrote:
But maybe we should have business majors and an education major.


I don't think we should do that.  Lafayette is not a vocational or "applied business technology" institution.  It's a hard science, engineering and liberal arts college.  Lafayette does not create majors just for athletes the way most schools do.  That's some thing we're just going to have to live with.
Lafalum

I'm not suggesting we have majors for athletes. But having an eduction major is strategic and fits the needs of our students. Those that want to go into teaching have to go off campus to meet their requirements for certification and having Lafayette alumni in the teaching profession places them in key positions to recruit good students in the future and raises the profile of the school in the eyes of High School students. Whether we like it or not many families are looking at college to help them to be qualified for a job afterward. Adding the name Business to the economics department and expand the accounting and finance curriculum would go a long way to making us more attractive on many fronts. Spending 30 million plus to upgrade the performing and visual arts ( mostly the performing arts) makes no strategic sense to me.

We in fact do have a vocational aspect to our offerings in engineering. I would hope we are graduating ( I know we are) competent engineers. That is vocational.
NotGordonAustin

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
In  any case, we have to find a way to deal with it.


Sure - we could dodge the AI by assembling a roster exclusively through transfers from "University of Phoenix."  That would level the playing floor with American U. and Metropolitan C.  But does anybody really want to go there?

I'd rather split off with the original PL members and form our own conference, much the way the Big East did.

In any event - Go Crusaders!


Blah, blah, blah. Your shots at AU are out of date and tiresome. I'm sure you'll have some witty response explaining away how the PL Scholar Athlete of the Year is from AU. Enjoy your early offseason. Again.
BillS

Supply chain management and broadcast journalism would be awesome majors for our Athletes 🏀🏈😈
Kpard

Andy wrote:
Evidence, lafalum? Read their bios.  Irving is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in sociology."  Watson is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in criminal justice."  They also have non-MetCol "communications" majors.  Femovich should meet face to face with our players and explain to them why they were put in the situation they were in last night in their own league tournament.  What was the urgency to have BU competing THIS YEAR with MetCol players?  Elite academic league. What a joke.

Congrats Joey and Seth:

Patriot League Scholar-Athlete of the Year: Jesse Reed, American (So.)

Men's Basketball Academic All-Patriot League Team
Brian Fitzpatrick, Bucknell (Gr.)
Seth Hinrichs, Lafayette (Jr.)
Joey Ptasinski, Lafayette (Jr.)
Jesse Reed, American (So.)
Franz Rassman, Loyola (So.)


These are the All League honors that the administration and BOTs are more concerned about. And if you were in those position, you'd feel the same way.
Franks Tanks

BillS wrote:
Supply chain management and broadcast journalism would be awesome majors for our Athletes ������


"Health Promotion" seems to be a popular major with AU basketball players.  I imagine they walk around campus saying "Hey you shouldn't be eating that candy bar" since they seem to be very interested in promoting health.
Andy

Lafalum wrote:
Andy wrote:
Evidence, lafalum? Read their bios.  Irving is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in sociology."  Watson is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in criminal justice."  They also have non-MetCol "communications" majors.  Femovich should meet face to face with our players and explain to them why they were put in the situation they were in last night in their own league tournament.  What was the urgency to have BU competing THIS YEAR with MetCol players?  Elite academic league. What a joke.

Congrats Joey and Seth:

Patriot League Scholar-Athlete of the Year: Jesse Reed, American (So.)

Men's Basketball Academic All-Patriot League Team
Brian Fitzpatrick, Bucknell (Gr.)
Seth Hinrichs, Lafayette (Jr.)
Joey Ptasinski, Lafayette (Jr.)
Jesse Reed, American (So.)
Franz Rassman, Loyola (So.)


Watson is in the school of general studies not Met College. As I read it Met College is different than General Studies. As a student in General Studies, students go there before deciding on a major. Irving is a senior in Met College. Many members of the team are in general studies which I don't find offensive in the first two years for a student. Now are we tougher  academically, perhaps. But maybe we should have business majors and an education major.

In  any case, we have to find a way to deal with it.


Yes, Watson "plans on majoring in communications." Morris is the MetCol CJ major, sorry.  The point is, athletes representative of the student body.  They're not in accord with the standards others were held to, and shouldn't be competing for a league title until they are in compliance.
Andy

NotGordonAustin wrote:
Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
In  any case, we have to find a way to deal with it.


Sure - we could dodge the AI by assembling a roster exclusively through transfers from "University of Phoenix."  That would level the playing floor with American U. and Metropolitan C.  But does anybody really want to go there?

I'd rather split off with the original PL members and form our own conference, much the way the Big East did.

In any event - Go Crusaders!


Blah, blah, blah. Your shots at AU are out of date and tiresome. I'm sure you'll have some witty response explaining away how the PL Scholar Athlete of the Year is from AU. Enjoy your early offseason. Again.


Wake up. The last time AU went deeper in the tournament than LC was '08-'09. Lafayette has been in the finals three of the last four years. "Early offseason. Again."  ?????????
sader87

It's a funny game....you guys give us all sorts of fits yet we have played BU fairly tough this year. All about the match-ups I guess.

I wouldn't despair, looks like you have a very good nucleus coming back and barring injuries, should be right in the hunt for a PL title next year.

BU is an "odd duck" in general....I doubt they will be strong year in, year out in hoop once they have to comply with the AI etc.
NotGordonAustin

Andy wrote:
NotGordonAustin wrote:
Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
In  any case, we have to find a way to deal with it.


Sure - we could dodge the AI by assembling a roster exclusively through transfers from "University of Phoenix."  That would level the playing floor with American U. and Metropolitan C.  But does anybody really want to go there?

I'd rather split off with the original PL members and form our own conference, much the way the Big East did.

In any event - Go Crusaders!


Blah, blah, blah. Your shots at AU are out of date and tiresome. I'm sure you'll have some witty response explaining away how the PL Scholar Athlete of the Year is from AU. Enjoy your early offseason. Again.


Wake up. The last time AU went deeper in the tournament than LC was '08-'09. Lafayette has been in the finals three of the last four years. "Early offseason. Again."  ?????????


I'm awake. And I'm looking at my two ticket stubs from our NCAA appearances. We've been in a bunch of PL finals, too. Glad you enjoyed getting close.
Andy

NotGordonAustin wrote:
Andy wrote:
NotGordonAustin wrote:
Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
In  any case, we have to find a way to deal with it.


Sure - we could dodge the AI by assembling a roster exclusively through transfers from "University of Phoenix."  That would level the playing floor with American U. and Metropolitan C.  But does anybody really want to go there?

I'd rather split off with the original PL members and form our own conference, much the way the Big East did.

In any event - Go Crusaders!


Blah, blah, blah. Your shots at AU are out of date and tiresome. I'm sure you'll have some witty response explaining away how the PL Scholar Athlete of the Year is from AU. Enjoy your early offseason. Again.


Wake up. The last time AU went deeper in the tournament than LC was '08-'09. Lafayette has been in the finals three of the last four years. "Early offseason. Again."  ?????????


I'm awake. And I'm looking at my two ticket stubs from our NCAA appearances. We've been in a bunch of PL finals, too. Glad you enjoyed getting close.


Yeah, those were golden years for AU, playing with scholarships when almost no one else in tne PL had them.  Cherish those memories. Done anything lately? "Early offseason. Again." Clueless.
ed65

Kpard wrote:
Andy wrote:
Evidence, lafalum? Read their bios.  Irving is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in sociology."  Watson is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in criminal justice."  They also have non-MetCol "communications" majors.  Femovich should meet face to face with our players and explain to them why they were put in the situation they were in last night in their own league tournament.  What was the urgency to have BU competing THIS YEAR with MetCol players?  Elite academic league. What a joke.

Congrats Joey and Seth:

Patriot League Scholar-Athlete of the Year: Jesse Reed, American (So.)

Men's Basketball Academic All-Patriot League Team
Brian Fitzpatrick, Bucknell (Gr.)
Seth Hinrichs, Lafayette (Jr.)
Joey Ptasinski, Lafayette (Jr.)
Jesse Reed, American (So.)
Franz Rassman, Loyola (So.)


These are the All League honors that the administration and BOTs are more concerned about. And if you were in those position, you'd feel the same way.


No disagreement with Kpard but if it is truly the case that academic honors for athletes are what the BoT and Admis is "more concerned about" I would like to see them admit it AND explain why winning doesn't matter.

WINNING MATTERS!
Lafalum

ed65 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
Andy wrote:
Evidence, lafalum? Read their bios.  Irving is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in sociology."  Watson is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in criminal justice."  They also have non-MetCol "communications" majors.  Femovich should meet face to face with our players and explain to them why they were put in the situation they were in last night in their own league tournament.  What was the urgency to have BU competing THIS YEAR with MetCol players?  Elite academic league. What a joke.

Congrats Joey and Seth:

Patriot League Scholar-Athlete of the Year: Jesse Reed, American (So.)

Men's Basketball Academic All-Patriot League Team
Brian Fitzpatrick, Bucknell (Gr.)
Seth Hinrichs, Lafayette (Jr.)
Joey Ptasinski, Lafayette (Jr.)
Jesse Reed, American (So.)
Franz Rassman, Loyola (So.)


These are the All League honors that the administration and BOTs are more concerned about. And if you were in those position, you'd feel the same way.


No disagreement with Kpard but if it is truly the case that academic honors for athletes are what the BoT and Admis is "more concerned about" I would like to see them admit it AND explain why winning doesn't matter.

WINNING MATTERS!


It's a small step from winning doesn't matter to why bother with Div 1 sports in the limited mind set of our BOT, some administrators and some faculty. Athletic success is less important than academic success so why bother supporting it at a level that would promote winning. It's the philosophy of participatory sports….everyone should get a trophy… hell why keep score?? It's healthy to exercise, on the other hand it's mean to separate winners from losers!! Let's go watch the puppet show on the quad!! That's what real life is…….. where foreign leaders follow the rules all the time, where everyone gets the same wage and a society where if you don't feel like working hard, society will take care of you!

Geez I shouldn't have watched the last two basketball games this week, it has really depressed me. Let's see what we have today Men's Lacrosse at Navy and women's lacrosse same venue on saturday…good grief. Oh yeah I could look at the PL playoffs ( darn no pards in that). If I were a student I could go to Disney Trivia night at Farinon tonight ( yes that is a real activity at 8pm .. I wonder if there are prizes) or hang with my frat brothers if the school hasn't outlawed my greek organization.

College should be training and a rehearsal for real life where….

WINNING MATTERS!!
bison137

Lafalum wrote:
With all due respect to my fellow posters I have yet to see specific evidence that the Boston University basketball players were admits from Met College. I also don't see evidence that in the future BU won't follow the rules of the league regarding redshirting and the AI. Boston is an urban school with a talented coach that doesn't have football to claim a lot of resources so they can concentrate on basketball and ice hockey as their premier sports.




1.   In the future, Boston will definitely comply with the AI, which will force them to change their recruiting somewhat.    Some of their key players, including Watson, would have been inadmissible with the AI.   Redshirting also will be eliminated - but that hasn't been a big part of their program.  My bigger concern would be the transfers - since that gives Jones a way to partially circumvent the AI.

3.   Too early to tell if Joe Jones is "talented".    At Columbia - where he had to recruit with an AI - he failed to produce a winning Ivy team in seven years in that job.   Let's see where they are in five years.
Kpard

Lafalum wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
Andy wrote:
Evidence, lafalum? Read their bios.  Irving is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in sociology."  Watson is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in criminal justice."  They also have non-MetCol "communications" majors.  Femovich should meet face to face with our players and explain to them why they were put in the situation they were in last night in their own league tournament.  What was the urgency to have BU competing THIS YEAR with MetCol players?  Elite academic league. What a joke.

Congrats Joey and Seth:

Patriot League Scholar-Athlete of the Year: Jesse Reed, American (So.)

Men's Basketball Academic All-Patriot League Team
Brian Fitzpatrick, Bucknell (Gr.)
Seth Hinrichs, Lafayette (Jr.)
Joey Ptasinski, Lafayette (Jr.)
Jesse Reed, American (So.)
Franz Rassman, Loyola (So.)


These are the All League honors that the administration and BOTs are more concerned about. And if you were in those position, you'd feel the same way.


No disagreement with Kpard but if it is truly the case that academic honors for athletes are what the BoT and Admis is "more concerned about" I would like to see them admit it AND explain why winning doesn't matter.

WINNING MATTERS!


It's a small step from winning doesn't matter to why bother with Div 1 sports in the limited mind set of our BOT, some administrators and some faculty. Athletic success is less important than academic success so why bother supporting it at a level that would promote winning. It's the philosophy of participatory sports….everyone should get a trophy… hell why keep score?? It's healthy to exercise, on the other hand it's mean to separate winners from losers!! Let's go watch the puppet show on the quad!! That's what real life is…….. where foreign leaders follow the rules all the time, where everyone gets the same wage and a society where if you don't feel like working hard, society will take care of you!

Geez I shouldn't have watched the last two basketball games this week, it has really depressed me. Let's see what we have today Men's Lacrosse at Navy and women's lacrosse same venue on saturday…good grief. Oh yeah I could look at the PL playoffs ( darn no pards in that). If I were a student I could go to Disney Trivia night at Farinon tonight ( yes that is a real activity at 8pm .. I wonder if there are prizes) or hang with my frat brothers if the school hasn't outlawed my greek organization.

College should be training and a rehearsal for real life where….

WINNING MATTERS!!


I'm sure winning matters to the players and coaches. Anyone who plays sports does so to win. You play to win the game. Winning should matter to everyone at the college. Successful sports programs is another was to get the schools name out there and generates excitement and a buzz at the school and throughout the community. Gives the alums another reason and activity to get together and support the school. Winning programs produce their own momentum and will bring in more and better athletes. Our challenge is doing it all without compromising out academic standards. Just throwing money at it will not produce winning. The facilities are there, but, do we have the right athletic administration and coaches? This is not a criticism, just a question.
Winning matters, but, I do not want to see a winning at all costs attitude. That is where the slippery slope is.
Kpard

bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
With all due respect to my fellow posters I have yet to see specific evidence that the Boston University basketball players were admits from Met College. I also don't see evidence that in the future BU won't follow the rules of the league regarding redshirting and the AI. Boston is an urban school with a talented coach that doesn't have football to claim a lot of resources so they can concentrate on basketball and ice hockey as their premier sports.




1.   In the future, Boston will definitely comply with the AI, which will force them to change their recruiting somewhat.    Some of their key players, including Watson, would have been inadmissible with the AI.   Redshirting also will be eliminated - but that hasn't been a big part of their program.  My bigger concern would be the transfers - since that gives Jones a way to partially circumvent the AI.

3.   Too early to tell if Joe Jones is "talented".    At Columbia - where he had to recruit with an AI - he failed to produce a winning Ivy team in seven years in that job.   Let's see where they are in five years.



It'a gonna take a while to play itself out. Notice they loaded up last year, pre AI, as their roster has an abundance of Sophs.
Lafalum

Kpard wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
Andy wrote:
Evidence, lafalum? Read their bios.  Irving is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in sociology."  Watson is "enrolled in the Metropolitan College, majoring in criminal justice."  They also have non-MetCol "communications" majors.  Femovich should meet face to face with our players and explain to them why they were put in the situation they were in last night in their own league tournament.  What was the urgency to have BU competing THIS YEAR with MetCol players?  Elite academic league. What a joke.

Congrats Joey and Seth:

Patriot League Scholar-Athlete of the Year: Jesse Reed, American (So.)

Men's Basketball Academic All-Patriot League Team
Brian Fitzpatrick, Bucknell (Gr.)
Seth Hinrichs, Lafayette (Jr.)
Joey Ptasinski, Lafayette (Jr.)
Jesse Reed, American (So.)
Franz Rassman, Loyola (So.)


These are the All League honors that the administration and BOTs are more concerned about. And if you were in those position, you'd feel the same way.


No disagreement with Kpard but if it is truly the case that academic honors for athletes are what the BoT and Admis is "more concerned about" I would like to see them admit it AND explain why winning doesn't matter.

WINNING MATTERS!


It's a small step from winning doesn't matter to why bother with Div 1 sports in the limited mind set of our BOT, some administrators and some faculty. Athletic success is less important than academic success so why bother supporting it at a level that would promote winning. It's the philosophy of participatory sports….everyone should get a trophy… hell why keep score?? It's healthy to exercise, on the other hand it's mean to separate winners from losers!! Let's go watch the puppet show on the quad!! That's what real life is…….. where foreign leaders follow the rules all the time, where everyone gets the same wage and a society where if you don't feel like working hard, society will take care of you!

Geez I shouldn't have watched the last two basketball games this week, it has really depressed me. Let's see what we have today Men's Lacrosse at Navy and women's lacrosse same venue on saturday…good grief. Oh yeah I could look at the PL playoffs ( darn no pards in that). If I were a student I could go to Disney Trivia night at Farinon tonight ( yes that is a real activity at 8pm .. I wonder if there are prizes) or hang with my frat brothers if the school hasn't outlawed my greek organization.

College should be training and a rehearsal for real life where….

WINNING MATTERS!!


I'm sure winning matters to the players and coaches. Anyone who plays sports does so to win. You play to win the game. Winning should matter to everyone at the college. Successful sports programs is another was to get the schools name out there and generates excitement and a buzz at the school and throughout the community. Gives the alums another reason and activity to get together and support the school. Winning programs produce their own momentum and will bring in more and better athletes. Our challenge is doing it all without compromising out academic standards. Just throwing money at it will not produce winning. The facilities are there, but, do we have the right athletic administration and coaches? This is not a criticism, just a question.
Winning matters, but, I do not want to see a winning at all costs attitude. That is where the slippery slope is.


totally agree Kpard. You have to set the proper goals and winning should be part of the goals or the athletic administration would respond to that. Maybe that means having the right coaches in place and/or the resources. IT may mean designating certain sports as emphasized sports.
Andy

What more should the admin be doing to help our basketball program?  (Odd for me to be on the admin's side).  Fran is in place, scholarships, redone arena, supposedly relaxed admission standards from crazy high.  What can they do?  Increase recruiting budget?  Are we at max allowed scholarships?
carney2

sader87 wrote:
I wouldn't despair, looks like you have a very good nucleus coming back and barring injuries, should be right in the hunt for a PL title next year.


Unless the incoming class of recruits includes some serious quick and muscle for down low - which I doubt - we're looking at another year of not-quite-athletic-enough white guys tossing up 3s.  We'll win some - probably some that we shouldn't - but there's no need to make any extra space on the trophy shelf.
Andy

bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
With all due respect to my fellow posters I have yet to see specific evidence that the Boston University basketball players were admits from Met College. I also don't see evidence that in the future BU won't follow the rules of the league regarding redshirting and the AI. Boston is an urban school with a talented coach that doesn't have football to claim a lot of resources so they can concentrate on basketball and ice hockey as their premier sports.




1.   In the future, Boston will definitely comply with the AI, which will force them to change their recruiting somewhat.    Some of their key players, including Watson, would have been inadmissible with the AI.   Redshirting also will be eliminated - but that hasn't been a big part of their program.  My bigger concern would be the transfers - since that gives Jones a way to partially circumvent the AI.

3.   Too early to tell if Joe Jones is "talented".    At Columbia - where he had to recruit with an AI - he failed to produce a winning Ivy team in seven years in that job.   Let's see where they are in five years.


137, is the PL policy regarding transfers and the AI spelled out anywhere?   I suspect it's not.  Do they go back to HS GPA and SATs?   No, correct?  If you could find the time, how about sharing your understanding of the transfer rules?
bethlehempard

Anecdotal but true: two years ago a coach of a non-major sport visited my kid's school for Reading Day. Lots of them do this, Frank T among them. They read to the kids and talk to them about what they do. It's a nice gesture as there's no payback for Lafayette.
This coach was asked, "What's your won/loss record?"
The coach claimed not to know and that what really matters is producing the young leaders of tomorrow etc etc.
I doubt the coach didn't know and I've never seen a Lafayette event where the coach wasn't all in, including this coach. It wasn't good to hear anyway.
I won't identify the coach that wouldn't be fair.
Perhaps the coach is frustrated with lack of support.

As for next year: I'd like to see more of Musters when the other teams go big.
Lehigh might be a lot better next year. Six freshman among them Kempton.
leopard88

bethlehempard wrote:
Anecdotal but true: two years ago a coach of a non-major sport visited my kid's school for Reading Day. Lots of them do this, Frank T among them. They read to the kids and talk to them about what they do. It's a nice gesture as there's no payback for Lafayette.
This coach was asked, "What's your won/loss record?"
The coach claimed not to know and that what really matters is producing the young leaders of tomorrow etc etc.
I doubt the coach didn't know and I've never seen a Lafayette event where the coach wasn't all in, including this coach. It wasn't good to hear anyway.
I won't identify the coach that wouldn't be fair.

How old were the children?  I don't think this is an unreasonable answer for young children.  I'd be willing to bet many big name coaches would answer the same way, regardless of their record.   I don't think it is at all a reflection of some grand college-wide philosophy.
bethlehempard

Elementary school so you may be right. I'm not saying it's a big deal and there may be many reasons for such an answer.
I know our coaches are often working against the odds.
Even kids deserve an honest answer on the record. That part I found to be a problem.
bison137

Andy wrote:
bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
With all due respect to my fellow posters I have yet to see specific evidence that the Boston University basketball players were admits from Met College. I also don't see evidence that in the future BU won't follow the rules of the league regarding redshirting and the AI. Boston is an urban school with a talented coach that doesn't have football to claim a lot of resources so they can concentrate on basketball and ice hockey as their premier sports.




1.   In the future, Boston will definitely comply with the AI, which will force them to change their recruiting somewhat.    Some of their key players, including Watson, would have been inadmissible with the AI.   Redshirting also will be eliminated - but that hasn't been a big part of their program.  My bigger concern would be the transfers - since that gives Jones a way to partially circumvent the AI.

3.   Too early to tell if Joe Jones is "talented".    At Columbia - where he had to recruit with an AI - he failed to produce a winning Ivy team in seven years in that job.   Let's see where they are in five years.


137, is the PL policy regarding transfers and the AI spelled out anywhere?   I suspect it's not.  Do they go back to HS GPA and SATs?   No, correct?  If you could find the time, how about sharing your understanding of the transfer rules?




Yes, it is definitely spelled out.   When they last revised the AI back in 2009, specific rules were put in about transfers.    These rules, as far as I know, have not been published.   However a coach told me that transfers who have not completed three semesters at their current school would be judged by their H.S. AI, i.e. by the weighting of their GPA and SAT.  After that, the major (possibly only) component is their college GPA.   I think this may leave a loophole for transfers from bad academic schools.
NewXbo

Andy wrote:
What more should the admin be doing to help our basketball program?  (Odd for me to be on the admin's side).  Fran is in place, scholarships, redone arena, supposedly relaxed admission standards from crazy high.  What can they do?  Increase recruiting budget?  Are we at max allowed scholarships?


I realize MBB was a disappointment but I think the issue is much bigger than that. I believe Lafalum posted that we don't have one team with an overall winning record. So does that mean none of our coaches are no good? It's difficult for any coach in any sport to be the league champion every year. There will always be ups and downs.

I believe there is no way we can have all our programs be contenders every year. Resources are limited by the size of the school among other things. I've heard, and maybe Lafalum can verify, that Griffiths left because he wasn't going to get the resources he felt he needed to make field hockey a national contender.

As far as the football coaches comments, they were the correct answer for the audience.
bethlehempard

The comments were not from a football coach. They are not a big deal but when one volunteers to address a group at least answer a factual question. Coaches know their records.

When Griffiths went to ODU he was quoted in the Virginia-Pilot:
"My focus was whether Old Dominion is committed to field hockey in the long term."
He noted that he was confident the school would invest in facilities and personnel support.
There is nothing wrong with coaches moving on. We need some hungry coaches who want to make a mark.
bison137

Kpard wrote:
bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
With all due respect to my fellow posters I have yet to see specific evidence that the Boston University basketball players were admits from Met College. I also don't see evidence that in the future BU won't follow the rules of the league regarding redshirting and the AI. Boston is an urban school with a talented coach that doesn't have football to claim a lot of resources so they can concentrate on basketball and ice hockey as their premier sports.




1.   In the future, Boston will definitely comply with the AI, which will force them to change their recruiting somewhat.    Some of their key players, including Watson, would have been inadmissible with the AI.   Redshirting also will be eliminated - but that hasn't been a big part of their program.  My bigger concern would be the transfers - since that gives Jones a way to partially circumvent the AI.

3.   Too early to tell if Joe Jones is "talented".    At Columbia - where he had to recruit with an AI - he failed to produce a winning Ivy team in seven years in that job.   Let's see where they are in five years.



It'a gonna take a while to play itself out. Notice they loaded up last year, pre AI, as their roster has an abundance of Sophs.



They may have a lot of sophs, but they all committed long before there was any agreement for Boston U to join the PL.   One reason for the size of the soph class is that they lost some recruits two years earlier when Pat Chambers left them to become the PSU coach.

However I think the bigger issue revolves around this year's Boston U frosh.   Boston officially joined the PL on June 15, 2012.   The agreement at that point was that any rising senior who had already committed to Boston U in any sport was grandfathered in as far as not having to pass the AI hurdle.  Would not have been fair to renege on a commitment already made.   But anyone who committed after that date was required to fit under the AI.    As I was told, Boston U (and Loyola) had to give the league a list of athletes who fit into the already-committed category, but there was some time lag before this happened and some PL coaches were sceptical that all of those who were grandfathered in had committed prior to the June 15th date.
bethlehempard

A good cold look at why BU joined

"Joe Jones has arguably the best job in the Patriot League instead of perhaps one of the worst in the A-10."
Http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/...versity-joe-jones-patriot-league/
Kpard

NewXbo wrote:
Andy wrote:
What more should the admin be doing to help our basketball program?  (Odd for me to be on the admin's side).  Fran is in place, scholarships, redone arena, supposedly relaxed admission standards from crazy high.  What can they do?  Increase recruiting budget?  Are we at max allowed scholarships?


I realize MBB was a disappointment but I think the issue is much bigger than that. I believe Lafalum posted that we don't have one team with an overall winning record. So does that mean none of our coaches are no good? It's difficult for any coach in any sport to be the league champion every year. There will always be ups and downs.

I believe there is no way we can have all our programs be contenders every year. Resources are limited by the size of the school among other things. I've heard, and maybe Lafalum can verify, that Griffiths left because he wasn't going to get the resources he felt he needed to make field hockey a national contender.

As far as the football coaches comments, they were the correct answer for the audience.


Championships every year - no. Be competittive, challenge, and then win them - yes!
Kpard

carney2 wrote:
sader87 wrote:
I wouldn't despair, looks like you have a very good nucleus coming back and barring injuries, should be right in the hunt for a PL title next year.


Unless the incoming class of recruits includes some serious quick and muscle for down low - which I doubt - we're looking at another year of not-quite-athletic-enough white guys tossing up 3s.  We'll win some - probably some that we shouldn't - but there's no need to make any extra space on the trophy shelf.


The guy you speak of is going to Duke, Kentucky, Florida, and Michigan State so he can play in front of or ride the bench at an arena that seats 5 to 10 times more than our entire student body and think they are going to the big show (NBA).

The reality is he ain't coming to Easton, PA to a small liberal arts college that happens to have D-1 hoops.
carney2

Kpard wrote:
carney2 wrote:
sader87 wrote:
I wouldn't despair, looks like you have a very good nucleus coming back and barring injuries, should be right in the hunt for a PL title next year.


Unless the incoming class of recruits includes some serious quick and muscle for down low - which I doubt - we're looking at another year of not-quite-athletic-enough white guys tossing up 3s.  We'll win some - probably some that we shouldn't - but there's no need to make any extra space on the trophy shelf.


The guy you speak of is going to Duke, Kentucky, Florida, and Michigan State so he can play in front of or ride the bench at an arena that seats 5 to 10 times more than our entire student body and think they are going to the big show (NBA).

The reality is he ain't coming to Easton, PA to a small liberal arts college that happens to have D-1 hoops.


A point well taken and a point well made, but I think we have a disconnect somewhere.  My post did not speak of anyone - not anyone going to big time basketball schools, not anyone.  

As long as you bring up the topic of individuals however, I will comment that Lehigh's freshman Rookie of the Year, 6'10 center Tim Kempton, was probably not a step in crap lucky find for Brett Reed.  Players like Kempton are probably on Reed's must have list year in and year out.  He identifies them and then tries to sign them.  He doesn't always succeed, but this is basketball and you don't need many.  O'Hanlon, on the other hand, seems to always ask the question "Can the kid shoot?"  In other words, "Can he be one of those 4 shooters that I must have on the floor at all times?"  If we are not going to change the product on the floor we're not going to legitimately challenge for trophies. Until we change our recruiting philosophy, ain't much gonna happen.  

The self-inflating bull crap that keeps getting spouted on this board, "We've been to the League championship game in 3 of the past 4 years" is a great example of the saying "even crap can be true."  All of those games were walkovers in which we had about the same chance as that proverbial snowball in hell.  Fran needs to change what he's doing on the recruiting trail.  This ain't the ACC.  It's not that big a mountain to climb.
Kpard

carney2 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
carney2 wrote:
sader87 wrote:
I wouldn't despair, looks like you have a very good nucleus coming back and barring injuries, should be right in the hunt for a PL title next year.


Unless the incoming class of recruits includes some serious quick and muscle for down low - which I doubt - we're looking at another year of not-quite-athletic-enough white guys tossing up 3s.  We'll win some - probably some that we shouldn't - but there's no need to make any extra space on the trophy shelf.


The guy you speak of is going to Duke, Kentucky, Florida, and Michigan State so he can play in front of or ride the bench at an arena that seats 5 to 10 times more than our entire student body and think they are going to the big show (NBA).

The reality is he ain't coming to Easton, PA to a small liberal arts college that happens to have D-1 hoops.


A point well taken and a point well made, but I think we have a disconnect somewhere.  My post did not speak of anyone - not anyone going to big time basketball schools, not anyone.  

As long as you bring up the topic of individuals however, I will comment that Lehigh's freshman Rookie of the Year, 6'10 center Tim Kempton, was probably not a step in crap lucky find for Brett Reed.  Players like Kempton are probably on Reed's must have list year in and year out.  He identifies them and then tries to sign them.  He doesn't always succeed, but this is basketball and you don't need many.  O'Hanlon, on the other hand, seems to always ask the question "Can the kid shoot?"  In other words, "Can he be one of those 4 shooters that I must have on the floor at all times?"  If we are not going to change the product on the floor we're not going to legitimately challenge for trophies. Until we change our recruiting philosophy, ain't much gonna happen.  

The self-inflating bull crap that keeps getting spouted on this board, "We've been to the League championship game in 3 of the past 4 years" is a great example of the saying "even crap can be true."  All of those games were walkovers in which we had about the same chance as that proverbial snowball in hell.  Fran needs to change what he's doing on the recruiting trail.  This ain't the ACC.  It's not that big a mountain to climb.


I agree re: the Lehigh situation. If they and others can do it..........
RichH

I cant comment on Pard bball itself.So I wont but itis pertinent to look at the difference in recruiting methodologies;  I look at the shortlist ofLC offers compared toLU's much lengthier list. I dont know how or where LC recruits but LU recruits nationally and has more than double LC's offers.
Doc is reaping the benefit of better name recognition due to CJ no doubt . How successful he will be in the future we'll see but the depthof talent isimpressive, Dowish he was as good a game coach  as yours. Smile
bison137

Re: A good cold look at why BU joined

bethlehempard wrote:
"Joe Jones has arguably the best job in the Patriot League instead of perhaps one of the worst in the A-10."
Http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/...versity-joe-jones-patriot-league/



The author of this piece didn't understand the issues or the PL much at all.    At the moment:

1.  Boston U has not had a top 100 team in MANY years.
2.  Boston U has made exactly one NCAA appearance in the past 12 years - despite playing in a weak league.
3.  Boston U has virtually no fan support.   Struggling to average 800 fans per game, despite a really good record.
4.  Boston U is going to have to change its recruiting now that they have to follow an AI.
5.  Joe Jones in seven years at Columbia was never able to finish above .500 in Ivy play.   Academic index affecting recruiting?


Won't be able to judge how good a job Boston U is for 5-7 years.
NotGordonAustin

carney2 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
carney2 wrote:
sader87 wrote:
I wouldn't despair, looks like you have a very good nucleus coming back and barring injuries, should be right in the hunt for a PL title next year.


Unless the incoming class of recruits includes some serious quick and muscle for down low - which I doubt - we're looking at another year of not-quite-athletic-enough white guys tossing up 3s.  We'll win some - probably some that we shouldn't - but there's no need to make any extra space on the trophy shelf.


The guy you speak of is going to Duke, Kentucky, Florida, and Michigan State so he can play in front of or ride the bench at an arena that seats 5 to 10 times more than our entire student body and think they are going to the big show (NBA).

The reality is he ain't coming to Easton, PA to a small liberal arts college that happens to have D-1 hoops.


The self-inflating bull crap that keeps getting spouted on this board, "We've been to the League championship game in 3 of the past 4 years" is a great example of the saying "even crap can be true."  All of those games were walkovers in which we had about the same chance as that proverbial snowball in hell.  Fran needs to change what he's doing on the recruiting trail.  This ain't the ACC.  It's not that big a mountain to climb.


I guess everyone in Easton isn't satisfied with almost making the NCAAs. Even with scholarship players.
Lafalum

bethlehempard wrote:
The comments were not from a football coach. They are not a big deal but when one volunteers to address a group at least answer a factual question. Coaches know their records.

When Griffiths went to ODU he was quoted in the Virginia-Pilot:
"My focus was whether Old Dominion is committed to field hockey in the long term."
He noted that he was confident the school would invest in facilities and personnel support.
There is nothing wrong with coaches moving on. We need some hungry coaches who want to make a mark.


That's as accurate a statement as could be made. My question, how much more resources would it have taken to assure that coach we would pursue a national posture in the sport? I am guessing another full time asst. Travel for recruiting. 50k a year?? We certainly, as a school, would be attractive to that population of athletes.
Andy

bison137 wrote:
Andy wrote:
bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
With all due respect to my fellow posters I have yet to see specific evidence that the Boston University basketball players were admits from Met College. I also don't see evidence that in the future BU won't follow the rules of the league regarding redshirting and the AI. Boston is an urban school with a talented coach that doesn't have football to claim a lot of resources so they can concentrate on basketball and ice hockey as their premier sports.




1.   In the future, Boston will definitely comply with the AI, which will force them to change their recruiting somewhat.    Some of their key players, including Watson, would have been inadmissible with the AI.   Redshirting also will be eliminated - but that hasn't been a big part of their program.  My bigger concern would be the transfers - since that gives Jones a way to partially circumvent the AI.

3.   Too early to tell if Joe Jones is "talented".    At Columbia - where he had to recruit with an AI - he failed to produce a winning Ivy team in seven years in that job.   Let's see where they are in five years.


137, is the PL policy regarding transfers and the AI spelled out anywhere?   I suspect it's not.  Do they go back to HS GPA and SATs?   No, correct?  If you could find the time, how about sharing your understanding of the transfer rules?




Yes, it is definitely spelled out.   When they last revised the AI back in 2009, specific rules were put in about transfers.    These rules, as far as I know, have not been published.   However a coach told me that transfers who have not completed three semesters at their current school would be judged by their H.S. AI, i.e. by the weighting of their GPA and SAT.  After that, the major (possibly only) component is their college GPA.   I think this may leave a loophole for transfers from bad academic schools.


Thanks, 137. You've just provided more info than I've ever seen on the subject.
Andy

bison137 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
With all due respect to my fellow posters I have yet to see specific evidence that the Boston University basketball players were admits from Met College. I also don't see evidence that in the future BU won't follow the rules of the league regarding redshirting and the AI. Boston is an urban school with a talented coach that doesn't have football to claim a lot of resources so they can concentrate on basketball and ice hockey as their premier sports.




1.   In the future, Boston will definitely comply with the AI, which will force them to change their recruiting somewhat.    Some of their key players, including Watson, would have been inadmissible with the AI.   Redshirting also will be eliminated - but that hasn't been a big part of their program.  My bigger concern would be the transfers - since that gives Jones a way to partially circumvent the AI.

3.   Too early to tell if Joe Jones is "talented".    At Columbia - where he had to recruit with an AI - he failed to produce a winning Ivy team in seven years in that job.   Let's see where they are in five years.



It'a gonna take a while to play itself out. Notice they loaded up last year, pre AI, as their roster has an abundance of Sophs.



They may have a lot of sophs, but they all committed long before there was any agreement for Boston U to join the PL.   One reason for the size of the soph class is that they lost some recruits two years earlier when Pat Chambers left them to become the PSU coach.

However I think the bigger issue revolves around this year's Boston U frosh.   Boston officially joined the PL on June 15, 2012.   The agreement at that point was that any rising senior who had already committed to Boston U in any sport was grandfathered in as far as not having to pass the AI hurdle.  Would not have been fair to renege on a commitment already made.   But anyone who committed after that date was required to fit under the AI.    As I was told, Boston U (and Loyola) had to give the league a list of athletes who fit into the already-committed category, but there was some time lag before this happened and some PL coaches were sceptical that all of those who were grandfathered in had committed prior to the June 15th date.


Interesting, 137. So it wouldn't have been fair to explain the situation to kids who committed in early summer of their junior year, wouldn't be fair to reneg on offers made to 2 or 3 kids?  But it's ok to change the rules mid-stream on coaches and players already in the league who now have to compete against non-compliant kids for 3 more years?  Advantage BU. Nice job by the league braintrust.
Andy

More "true crap:"

Our first scholarship players were juniors in '09-'10.  PL tourney wins '10-'13:

Bucknell      8
Lehigh         8
Lafayette     7
American     3
Army           1
Holy Cross    1
Colgate        0
Navy            0

Yup, 3 trips to the finals.

We had a slim chance of beating the Bison and their future NBA center,  six teams had no chance.

PL tourney games '10-'13:

Lafayette    11
Bucknell      10
Lehigh         10
American       7
Army             5
Holy Cross     5
Colgate          4
Navy              4
bison137

Andy wrote:


Interesting, 137. So it wouldn't have been fair to explain the situation to kids who committed in early summer of their junior year, wouldn't be fair to reneg on offers made to 2 or 3 kids?  But it's ok to change the rules mid-stream on coaches and players already in the league who now have to compete against non-compliant kids for 3 more years?  Advantage BU. Nice job by the league braintrust.



When you talk about the "league braintrust", you are actually talking about the eight member schools, almost certainly including Lafayette.   At a minimum, six of the eight schools voted in favor of this arrangement - and I'd be surprised if it wasn't more than six.

If existing players weren't grandfathered in, then there would be no chance - ever - of adding any new teams.   A number of people might be OK with that, but clearly the league and most of the eight PL schools disagreed.    Without grandfathering existing players, it also would mean no chance - ever - of adding any new football teams.    Villanova or W&M or whoever is not suddenly going to tell the players who don't make the AI cut that they can no longer play, and they are not going to tell the players who they told to redshirt that they won't be able to play their 5th year. despite what we told them.   In fact, without allowing players who don't meet the AI and without allowing redshirts, it is very possible Boston U or Loyola or Villanova etc might not even be able to field teams in some sports as new PL members.   BTW, when the league was originally established, there were athletes who did not meet the AI and all of them - very possibly including some from Lafayette - were grandfathered in.
Lafalum

Bison 137, yes a  reasonable post on the subject. It has been this board's habit to attribute failure of our sports teams to the sins of the other guy rather than look in the mirror. Time to look at ourselves and correct our shortcoming before we go around saying they won but we are smarter! Our pubic affairs people do a much better job at that.

One team having an off year is a cycle, 23 sports teams having losing seasons show a much deeper problem.

Part of the issue is we never accounted for title ix to have the impact in did. In the days before we were co-ed we were 1700 men with half the number of sports. We tried to maintain relatively the same levels of support for twice the number of sports with half the number of men in the student population. IN 60's-70's our athletic population was about 10 per cent of the student body today its 25 %, That make it very difficult to give opportunities to a broader section of the population and may even reinforce stereotyping of athletes when we recruit or we overcompensate to maintain or increase our quality of incoming classes losing a key athlete in the process. We should have targeted ourselves to be about 3400-4000 students which would have given us a population to support the athletic programs as it should be and essentially doubling in constant dollars the support required to maintain a competitive program. Problem is our BOT leadership is thinking like its 1975 ( some have been on almost the long). It has been written again and again the sweet spot in higher education is 3-5k, that's where we need to be to support all our key programs.

The same applies to our choir or orchestra. A reasonable choir may be 75 voices and the same number of people in the orchestra that's about 6 pct of the student population. I could go down each program and do the same calculation. At some point quality suffers.
ed65

Amen, Lafalum.  The current size of the college is holding us back in many ways, not just athletics.  As for the graybeards on the BoT, it's time for them to pack it in.  I have (over and over) said we must grow to 3.000 but I think Lafalum is correct.  3,500 is a very good goal.  One could ask: should we be growing in an enviroment where online and distance learning seem to be the flavor of the month?  Good question but if Alison Byerly is correct in emphasizing the positives of a residential college experience, it would be wondeful to see the B0T take a giant step for a change.  How much of the capital campaign will be devoted to expansion will be an interesting question.  It will be great to see what goodies are in the capital campaign ($20 million for athletics - maybe the construction of a field house at Metzger - that would be a welcome addition).

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