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bethlehempard

Baseball flounders: 8 and 44 for the season.

The team is 2-9 or 2-10. Beyond that, it's still irritating that BU and Loyola of course don't support football, but neither has a baseball team either. Nor does American.
The PL has too many free-riders.
Kpard

Given title 9 and the fact that we are a NE school with limited seasonal weather for this outdoor sport, baseball would be a prime candidate for a cut IMOO. Temple did it a few years ago.
Leopard Loyalist

Kpard wrote:
Given title 9 and the fact that we are a NE school with limited seasonal weather for this outdoor sport, baseball would be a prime candidate for a cut IMOO. Temple did it a few years ago.


I get it, but that would be very sad, given our history.
Kpard

We'll see what the "study" brings. We dropped wrestling many years back. We are a small school and IMO by trying to do too much we don't do anything well anymore.
Marooner

Dropping baseball would pretty much end Patriot League baseball altogether. I can't find a source anywhere, but I believe that without at least six teams, the league would lose its automatic NCAA bid.

But first things first: we have a few good arms and - while 2-10 is bad under any circumstance - you also can't ignore that five of those losses are by one run. Also, as mentioned, it's a six team league and four teams make the playoffs. So win when the aces are on the hill, scratch out a few runs in the other games, and let's see what happens.
Lafalum

Kpard wrote:
We'll see what the "study" brings. We dropped wrestling many years back. We are a small school and IMO by trying to do too much we don't do anything well anymore.


No way would we drop baseball. It has numerous important supporters including the Kamines. Don't forget our most prominent modern day alumnus Joe Madden.

( Thinking today that our two most celebrated alumni , Madden and Stephen Crane who wrote Red Badge of Courage, did not graduate. Madden of course got a honorary degree several years ago.)
pardfan

Recall it being said that he transferred to Syracuse.  Googled it to be sure. (Left LC after a semester.)  Played baseball at SU circa 1891.
pardfan

Story was that Crane flunked freshman English.
bethlehempard

Crane isn't the only one failing. Baseball is now 2-15 and just lost 25-7 to UNC Greensboro. I don't think anybody saw this coming.
pardfan

10-40 the spring before the #150 football game (remember being on the joe maddon bus on way to game and some baseball parents were sitting in front of us and I brought that up).  Results haven't been terrific for a while now
bethlehempard

Lafayette is up 4-1 in the top of the fifth. Giusti is pitching.
About the Temple item above, the Owls were cutting recurring expenses but they also cited improvements needed at the Ambler sports complex when they dropped baseball.
I saw a few games there and thought it wasn't bad but it perhaps didn't compare to other league facilities.
pardfan

Bottom of seventh up 5-1  then 5-2 then bases loaded then grand  slam
Now down 6-5     Last really good year was 2007   That's a long time ago
bethlehempard

8-5 now.
Well, we'll always have volleyball. That's one sport we can count on.
pardfan

We just homered with a man on   top of eighth  2 outs   down 8-7
bison137

Curios as to what you think are the reasons for the problems. Unlike some sports, it is not a money issue, as LC has the most baseball scholarships and spends the most money.  Here is what PL teams spent last year on baseball:

Lafayette $683k
Lehigh $454k
Bucknell $447k
HC $447k  (tie)
pardfan

IMO   In a word, "Metzgar."  Too far from campus making all sports using it as a base a tough sell.
bethlehempard

2-18 now.
Maybe things will change in PL play, which starts April 1 (really).

On the bigger question, I have no idea. A close family tie started for Lehigh for four years not long ago and at that time, Engineer fans bemoaned the state of their facilities compared to Lafayette's. Lehigh has since improved the ballfield but I would still take Kamine over whatever the other place is called (it had a placeholder name the last time I was there, Leadership Field or something).

Both schools have longtime coaches with not a lot of success on the field.
Kinney may reach 500 losses this season. Leary has done slightly better overall.
It's tough to be good in the Northeast but these schools have at times been competitive in the league.
bethlehempard

The baseball team is now 2-20. I don't know if it's intentional but the latest sports-information item omits the record.
Baseball has reached the level of volleyball.
bethlehempard

I didn't know this before but there are Sagarin ratings for baseball. How blissful was my ignorance.
Lafayette is No. 294 out of 299. That was six losses ago, the numbers are a bit behind.
Lehigh is No. 275. The Patriot League is 28th of 31. The Big 12 is the best, the SWAC comes in last.
Northeast baseball is a challenge.
League play and home games haven't started so there is always hope.
bison137

There are at least six active rating systems for D1 baseball.   PL is near the bottom in all.   As you say, it's tough to be competitive with a northeast location.  The PL is ahead of the NEC and only slightly behind the A10, MAAC, and AE.

http://masseyratings.com/cbase/compare.htm
bethlehempard

Rutgers 28 - Lafayette 4

I had to double-check this one, even in this era of abject failure.

Let the school-supported alleged D1 team and the official club team play. The winner can finish the season.

I'd go with the club team anyway. That or just end the season now.

3-32. I haven't checked the records nor will I bother to but this organized baseball activity could be the worst in the history of the school.

Rutgers may have set its record for runs today. Even they aren't sure.
njleopard

[quote="bethlehempard:61331"]Rutgers 28 - Lafayette 4

I had to double-check this one, even in this era of abject failure.

Let the school-supported alleged D1 team and the official club team play. The winner can finish the season.

I'd go with the club team anyway. That or just end the season now.

3-32. I haven't checked the records nor will I bother to but this organized baseball activity could be the worst in the history of the school.

Rutgers may have set its record for runs today. Even they aren't sure.[/quote]

How can anyone justify retaining our coaching staff?
Marooner

But... but... Notre Dame! I was hoping that game was a sign that we at least had a fighting chance every time Trevor Houck was on the mound. No offense intended toward the young man - there's certainly no one player that deserves being singled out for 3-32 - but even our best pitcher seems to be a step behind the rest of the "aces" in the Patriot League and similar conferences.

As for yesterday's 28-4 loss to Rutgers, it seems the combination of not being very good plus not using our weekend arms plus playing a Big Ten team (not a good one, but Big Ten nonetheless) is a recipe for disaster.
SixtyEighter

The baseball record is consistent with the rest of the programs-winning percentage = 11%.That study report can't come soon enough. Hopefully it will convince the administration that something is rotten in Denmark.Right now they're all in a Jonestown like mass stupor.
njleopard

[quote="SixtyEighter:61335"]The baseball record is consistent with the rest of the programs-winning percentage = 11%.That study report can't come soon enough. Hopefully it will convince the administration that something is rotten in Denmark.Right now they're all in a Jonestown like mass stupor.[/quote]


What is the national record for worst all time school wide sports teams?
bethlehempard

Baseball: was up 10-8 over Bucknell in the bottom of the seventh and final inning.
The first Bison batter struck out. Two outs from victory.
The next batter grounded out. One out from victory, bases empty and a two-run lead.
A walk ... a series of hits and another walk and a hit and an 11-10 loss.
This is becoming Gothic. The sins of Lafayette past are being inflicted on the 2016-17 teams. So are the coaches of the past.
The team is 3-35 and on a losing streak of 10 or 11 or maybe 12 games. Really, does it matter?

It's time for the solution and it's not a study or a feel-good press release or even a donation.

I'm preparing to hold an exorcism at Fisher. Beer will be served of course.
njleopard

[quote="bethlehempard:61364"]Baseball: was up 10-8 over Bucknell in the bottom of the seventh and final inning.
The first Bison batter struck out. Two outs from victory.
The next batter grounded out. One out from victory, bases empty and a two-run lead.
A walk ... a series of hits and another walk and a hit and an 11-10 loss.
This is becoming Gothic. The sins of Lafayette past are being inflicted on the 2016-17 teams. So are the coaches of the past.
The team is 3-35 and on a losing streak of 10 or 11 or maybe 12 games. Really, does it matter?

It's time for the solution and it's not a study or a feel-good press release or even a donation.

I'm preparing to hold an exorcism at Fisher. Beer will be served of course.[/quote  Is there any college coach anywhere who has kept his job with level of ineptitude?
bethlehempard

Weekend totals for four games:
Lehigh        29 runs
Lafayette      6 runs

Lehigh was 12-24 before the four-game series, not good but good enough to dominate the Leopards.
Lafayette is 3-41 and winning 6.8 percent of its games.
Nobody saw this coming.

Lehigh probably isn't even going to make it to the league playoffs.
Consider that: Lafayette isn't close, not remotely close, to the fifth team in a six-team league.

Let there be at least one more win for these kids.
Andy

For the record:

Baseball vs Lehigh = 1-11 last 3 seasons
                          = 4-16 last 5 seasons

Why?
justasoldier

Why?

Well, a quick look of the roster shows we have 13 freshmen, 9 sophs, 9 juniors, and only 4 seniors. And of course, should be senior Dave Bednar is now pitching at Fort Wayne in the Padres organization.

It's a huge jump up for the high school pitchers, 7 of them. Do we have a pitching coach?

There's a "coach" who goes out to the mound but with his head down and hoodie over his head. Seems like he should be a more positive coach with the young pitchers.
Andy

justasoldier wrote:
Why?

Well, a quick look of the roster shows we have 13 freshmen, 9 sophs, 9 juniors, and only 4 seniors. And of course, should be senior Dave Bednar is now pitching at Fort Wayne in the Padres organization.

It's a huge jump up for the high school pitchers, 7 of them. Do we have a pitching coach?

There's a "coach" who goes out to the mound but with his head down and hoodie over his head. Seems like he should be a more positive coach with the young pitchers.


We had lost 10 straight to the rival, and 16 of 20, that's not an isolated roster situation.

In this interview Coach seems to have fallen into the Coach T narrative - main source of pride is that his guys graduate and go on to careers and families. That's great and Coach is undoubtedly a terrific guy. But, when will we be competitive again? I would cite a comparative lack of funding if I could. Just a fan, I'd love to feel a sense of urgency.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKC6hllXgUg
The Maroon

Coach Kinney took over a program in absolute shambles - slowly built it into a solid contender and now it's an atrocity. All of this with the same lead assistant.
Variations on that theme have also played out in men's hoops, football and to some degree men's soccer.

Again: Why? Do the coaches become complacent or do we have a system that categorically undercuts success?
justasoldier

Andy wrote:
justasoldier wrote:
Why?

Well, a quick look of the roster shows we have 13 freshmen, 9 sophs, 9 juniors, and only 4 seniors. And of course, should be senior Dave Bednar is now pitching at Fort Wayne in the Padres organization.

It's a huge jump up for the high school pitchers, 7 of them. Do we have a pitching coach?

There's a "coach" who goes out to the mound but with his head down and hoodie over his head. Seems like he should be a more positive coach with the young pitchers.


We had lost 10 straight to the rival, and 16 of 20, that's not an isolated roster situation.

In this interview Coach seems to have fallen into the Coach T narrative - main source of pride is that his guys graduate and go on to careers and families. That's great and Coach is undoubtedly a terrific guy. But, when will we be competitive again? I would cite a comparative lack of funding if I could. Just a fan, I'd love to feel a sense of urgency.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKC6hllXgUg


Do you think it's an admissions issue?
PardDad71

Certainly, as with the football assistants, you have to wonder about an assistant who remains for 18 years.   Could just be he is not interested in moving his family/family commitments, or even his wife has the higher paying job so him taking a HC job is not worthwhile.

Regarding the HC, as I said with football, I am OK with mediocrity (.500 seasons, making conference tournament every few years.  But I am not OK with consecutive really bad seasons, and in baseball it is very hard to understand 3-41.   bad baseball teams should win 1 out of 3 (which is what we've done the last few years).
bethlehempard

Just for the heck of it, extrapolate 3 and 41 over a major league 162-game season: 11-151.
This season is beyond understanding. A D3 squad could win more games out of 44.
Lafayette is No. 298 of 299 in Massey ratings.. St. Peter's is 0-23 and last.
Every MEAC and SWAC team and everybody else is higher.
It's outrageous. Mostly though it's sad, sad for these players. Good luck men.
Marooner

I assume you're talking about Gregg Durrah. If so, it's worth noting that his son Trey is on the roster. So Coach Durrah likely isn't going anywhere (on his own accord) for at least three more seasons.

I don't like to get into the "keep 'em or can 'em" talk about people I don't know, just thought this was some notable info for those who do.
PardDad71

While obviously not playing for him, I believe Micky Fein's daughter is an incoming freshman and a girls lax recruit.
The Maroon

We're putting on one of the all-time greatest shit-shows in the history of Lafayette athletics and you guys want to focus on an assistant coaches offspring.
Lafalum

The end game

These last 4 years have been by all measures a disaster. The blame is at the top and where the fix must occur. We cannot just fire and promote from within...the whole leadership crew must go. That's is now a given. Get a professional manager in and let him or her go to work.

This is now on Byerly the president!!!
Franks Tanks

Marooner wrote:
I assume you're talking about Gregg Durrah. If so, it's worth noting that his son Trey is on the roster. So Coach Durrah likely isn't going anywhere (on his own accord) for at least three more seasons.

I don't like to get into the "keep 'em or can 'em" talk about people I don't know, just thought this was some notable info for those who do.


Durrah isn't a full time coach.  His real job is being a Northampton County probation officer.  I don't believe baseball has a full time assistant coach making a living wage.  It's Kinney, Durrah part time and a bunch of young kids or part time older guys making peanuts.
Marooner

The Maroon wrote:
We're putting on one of the all-time greatest shit-shows in the history of Lafayette athletics and you guys want to focus on an assistant coaches offspring.

The conversation was about the baseball assistant coach. I offered a very relevant reason why he might stick around for at least a few more years. But yeah, I'll shut up so you guys can focus on why a guy making an interception in spring practice means a Patriot League Championship is coming.
bethlehempard

The baseball team beat Holy Cross in Game One and leads in Game Two. There is the possibility of knocking the Crusaders out of the Two Seed.
Marooner

And the Leopards take 3-of-4 from a team that entered the weekend with a shot at the No. 1 seed in the Patriot League Tournament. First team ever to be 6-43 with five quality wins (Notre Dame, Army West Point, Holy Cross 3x) under their belts?
bethlehempard

Taking three of four from the Cross is a nice moment.
Beating Notre Dame and any team is memorable but not necessarily meaningful. This is baseball, and stuff happens.
Lehigh beat Notre Dame and Boston College about eight, nine years ago. Those Engineer teams weren't as bad as Lafayette of course but they weren't playoff teams either.
Those early southern games might not be good indicators.
The 6 and 43 Lafayette organized baseball activity has been outscored about 2 to 1 so far.
The activity has given up 10 or more runs 18 times, and three of those were above 20: 28 to Rutgers, 25 to UNC-Greensboro and 24 to St. Louis.
Every sport has bad years but this is beyond bad.
Plus it seems we only have bad years.
It's time for a change or for abolition.
If this study doesn't cut several sports, every coach besides Garrett and Fisher should be fired.
justasoldier

While you focus on negatives, I focus on positives.

First, we started with 4 seniors and 14 freshmen.

Second, our best pitcher signed a major league contract and did not play his senior year.

Third, we played a very difficult pre-season schedule.

Fourth, the team lost 14 games buy one run.

Fifth, the team has learned how to win.

Sixth, there will be a team next season, they will win more games, you will continue to bad mouth them each time they lose.
bethlehempard

So, I'm a nitpicker. That's funny.

Apologists will always find a way to support losing and help losers evade accountability.

A longtime coach in any sport is responsible for the roster. Any sport.

6 and 43. Let that soak in. 6 and 43 and well-funded.

6 and 43.

I'm not looking for negatives. The negatives are hitting Lafayette fans in the face like a cold dead fish. Lafayette is squandering its athletic tradition and reputation by propping up losers.

The doormat of a weak league in all but one major sport.

Explain that away.

By the way I won't be bad-mouthing them after each loss. I just won't give a damn.

***why the new poster name? Does it really matter?
bethlehempard

A late surge carried the Lafayette College baseball team to an 8 and 44 record for 2017.

The sentence above is not from a Monty Python skit. It's true. The team got some timely late hitting and grabbed a few opportunities to get five late-season wins.
On the other hand, imagine that sentence being applied to any other team at any level.

Extrapolated over a 162-game major league season, the activity would be 25 and 137.

For the last decade, including this season, the Lafayette baseball activity is 157 and 315 with two ties (we should treasure the ties). The team has consistently won about one of three games over 10 years.

The last winning season overall was 2008, 25 and 23.
The last winning league year was in 2007, 17-3, the big year.
Lafayette last went to the NCAA postseason before that in 1990.

Lafayette consistently -- without fail really -- puts lesser teams out against league and non-league opponents.

This is yet another example of failure to use scholarships well. Resources are being squandered on the hardwood and on the grass and in or on any other sports venue.

Will this futility continue? At Lafayette, the answer is usually: Yes!
pardfan

On a personal level, I've witnessed the futility clear back to 1959.  LC lost to Penn 26-0 in FB at Franklin Field. Was invited to go by a friend and his dad. I purchased the pennants of the two participants and kept them on my wall as they joined Brown, Army, and Navy.  (Of course, there is the felt border on the side to keep the stick in place.)  Truly an artifact of the first order, it still has a place-- in my daughter's (LC grad) unoccupied room.  "Lafayettense Collegium   Veritas Liberabit  1832"
What do I remember most about that game?  The Penn cheerleaders--as was the case, in those days, all male--were acrobatic "like you wouldn't believe."
DeFactoPard

Something has to change!

[quote="bethlehempard:61522"]A late surge carried the Lafayette College baseball team to an 8 and 44 record for 2017.

The sentence above is not from a Monty Python skit. It's true. The team got some timely late hitting and grabbed a few opportunities to get five late-season wins.
On the other hand, imagine that sentence being applied to any other team at any level.

Extrapolated over a 162-game major league season, the activity would be 25 and 137.

For the last decade, including this season, the Lafayette baseball activity is 157 and 315 with two ties (we should treasure the ties). The team has consistently won about one of three games over 10 years.

The last winning season overall was 2008, 25 and 23.
The last winning league year was in 2007, 17-3, the big year.
Lafayette last went to the NCAA postseason before that in 1990.

Lafayette consistently -- without fail really -- puts lesser teams out against league and non-league opponents.

This is yet another example of failure to use scholarships well. Resources are being squandered on the hardwood and on the grass and in or on any other sports venue.

Will this futility continue? At Lafayette, the answer is usually: Yes![/quote]

I think it is rather unfair to extrapolate a 53 game season into a 162 game season. I do believe, however, it is relevant to highlight this late season surge. The Lafayette baseball team finishing with 8 wins somehow took away from the fact that they had 3 prior to 4/29. Even with 8 wins, this season proves to be historically terrible and quite possibly goes down as one of the worst seasons in the history of Lafayette athletics.

Unfortunately, it seems like nothing will change. This is a travesty, especially considering the team loses only 4 seniors and returns an offense that recorded .270 overall/.300 in-conference team batting averages. Despite statistics like these, the team appeared to be unmotivated and unwilling to win. This likely has to do with coaching personnel-- and I don't think it takes a genius to figure this out.

SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE!
pardfan

"Something has to change!" is a nice start; but let me get you up to speed in a sentence or two.  Despite the data and the fulminations from others against Bruce and FOH and all the ships at sea, there is one and only one reality anymore (one that I maintain has contributed to Board exhaustion).  It is that nothing HAS to change.  (Certainly, nothing WILL change in the near future.  [Football possibly going from 2 to 4 wins is just not enough to say the College has turned the corner athletically.]  Next year's cast of characters is known--both on and off the field/court.)

+++Thus, the study won't protect us from next year--no matter what it says.++++

So greetings, new poster; but, relax. We're surrounded.  Save your ammo--for now.

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