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Lafalum

Chi Phi applies for recognition

The Lafayette reports that Chi Phi is the first fraternity to apply under the new guidelines. However, it looks like the school is slow walking the application. The chapter has never lost its recognition from its national headquarters, they have 30 active members, they own their house, have an active and committed alumni membership, and have already submitted a plan for return. The college has demanded they go through a semester of "interest group," status, then colonization before re entering their own house. Meanwhile the college is renting the house from Chi Phi to use as residence hall on a semester to semester basis. Based on the reports its indicated they could not return until the fall of 2017 at the earliest.

The college's credibility is at issue as well President Byerly's. Amazingly the college has spent millions of alumni dollars in foolish legal battles trying to keep Chi Phi from returning despite an agreement to return after a fixed period of time. It's time for this administration to do the right thing.

I have no connection to Chi Phi other than having friends who are members. I would like my school to put this episode behind them and I would like to think the word of our president and BOT is good.
BPard

Hopefully applications move relatively quickly, especially compared to the normal pace of the academy. There are at least three other groups of students besides Chi Phi who will likely apply shortly - including one with ties to active alumni that have waited much longer than Chi Phi. It will be interesting to see which application the recognition process deems the strongest.
Lafalum

A speedy review process would be helpful. Talk is cheap. For the first one back I would hope they pick the best prepared and organized. A false start would be a disaster. My sense is the school is making its first mistake in not making alumni more relevant to the process. It's their desire to make this student driven, which has its pitfalls without close mentorship and support. It cannot fail!!
flyfisher

I know some alumni are heavily involved advising at least 2 of the groups. Chi Phi is still recognized and somewhat active. Lots of athletes in that frat. going to be interesting how this plays out. Lots of money on the line.
LafStudent2016

I wouldn't count on positive action by the college in the near future on a Chi Phi reinstatement. Much of what they say to alumni about considering the reinstatement of fraternities on campus is done to appease and encourage donations. This new process they have introduced for "applications" of fraternities to join campus will have them structured more as clubs, fraternities in name only. The college will not give up property they have seized over the years from fraternities to reoccupy in and are quickly removing those that still have houses. In all honesty it appears to students on campus that regardless of what actions and accommodations are made by alumni, students and Greek organizations on campus the era of residential Greek organizations is not in the long-term future of the college. Many alumni don't understand that fraternities don't party in their houses anymore or anything you would have seen in your experiences yet the college is still finding ways to remove them. It is a downright hostile environment. My fraternity Zeta Psi was recently suspended  this past fall after a year and a half of appeals over an underage fake ID incident at a minor league baseball game and DKE seems likely to follow soon given the charges that were brought against them last semester. Furthermore the brothers and alumni of Zeta Psi have made continual outreaches to the Board of Trustees, the President and the faculty that the punishment does not fit the crime and that a reorganization program with the Class of 2016 (having not been affiliated at the time of previous incidents) taking the lead of rebuilding the fraternity would be the best approach. The College has treated these requests with disdain and outright disrespect refusing to allow the brothers to have even just meals in the house let alone live in it. Given Zeta Psi owns the house and the land it is confusing how this is possible but despite all statements from the college the feelings of students on campus is that the College has no interest in the restoration of Greek Life on campus and that without drastic changes to the Board and Administration no significant restoration will be seen.
Bogus Megapardus

LafStudent2016 wrote:
Many alumni don't understand that fraternities don't party in their houses anymore or anything you would have seen in your experiences yet the college is still finding ways to remove them.


Thanks for you insights, 2016.  It sure helps to have the perspective of a current student here (which I assume you are).

I think the alums understand the current "no-party" mandate pretty well.  I was the chapter president of my house at the very end of the "heyday" era, just as the college was starting to crack down.  Yes, the stories you've heard about beer-soaked bar rooms at 3:00 AM mostly are true but don't forget that they are stories.  We like to reminisce about what we "got away with" and the fun we had.

The fraternity experience was not simply about "pub nights," though.  Hardly.  It was about working and studying and living together as a team and trying to make your house the "best house of campus."  For those chapters (like ours) who owned our own house and property, the brothers were fully responsible for the care, maintenance, cleaning and upkeep of the house.  The brothers painted, plastered, fixed the roof, repaired the plumbing, cleaned the boiler and trimmed the hedges.  We balanced budgets, made procurements, managed vendors and ran an independent business of not inconsiderable size and scope.  We operated a restaurant-style, sit-down meal program with waiters, bus-brothers and dishwashers for nearly a hundred students (both men and women) for nineteen meals a week.  We sponsored campus events, fundraisers, movie nights, trips to road games and lots of other things.  We learned how to be responsible, accountable and self-starting.

Our houses and the chapter brothers were the principal link to the college's alumni.  We communicated with our chapter alumni organizations and alumni visited often; any alum could drop in at any time and he'd be welcomed and feel right at home.  Formal cocktail parties (or "wine & cheese" parties) with buffets followed every home football game.  Jacket and tie was required of every brother and dozens of alumni would fill the house every Saturday afternoon.  The idea was not to drink but to socialize and catch up with our alums and make sure that every trip to College Hill was pleasant and worthwhile.  The house was a place where "everybody knew your name."

I think what the college now fears is "lack of inclusiveness."  But in my day there was no exclusion because practically every (male) student was attached to a fraternity.  There was a house for everyone.
Lafalum

I'll repeat my admonition, if the college slow walks this process it will be seen as a presidential lie, then she is done as will any campaign of 400 million dollars.
ed65

I think Lafalum is quite correct.  The reinstate of frats is a major test for President Byerly and even more so for the Board of Trustees and the faculty, each of which has a cabal of anti fraternity people.

So far I have been impressed by President Byerly but she clearly is on a slippery slope on this issue.  The anti fraternity drones on the Board should move on to more important issues such as the future of the College and ways the College can grow.
BPard

I agree with Lafalum in wanting the strongest group possible. I have no idea if that means Chi Phi or someone else.

The fact that groups are already applying is an encouraging sign. What is speedy in this case? Is a decision before the start of the fall semester soon enough?

LS16 - Other Greek alums offered to help Zeta Psi with your case during your hearing & appeals and were told to mind their own business. After the appeal decision was made, they stuck their noses in anyways and got a year knocked off what your suspension otherwise would have been.

As an alum, when you help Zeta Psi come back from the suspension, you should consider creating a culture of working with your fellow Greeks instead of going it alone.

A common trait of the three remaining fraternities is that they all not only listen to each other, but also actively seek counsel from one another when facing a challenge. You may not see this as a student, but on the alumni level, it is true.

DKE announced the final disposition of their last semester charges does not even include probation. Is that wrong?
BPard

ed65, I hear that under the new policy and process, the Board has made the decision. Now it is up to the administration and students to implement. So the Board already moved on.
Lafalum

BPard wrote:
I agree with Lafalum in wanting the strongest group possible. I have no idea if that means Chi Phi or someone else.

The fact that groups are already applying is an encouraging sign. What is speedy in this case? Is a decision before the start of the fall semester soon enough?

LS16 - Other Greek alums offered to help Zeta Psi with your case during your hearing & appeals and were told to mind their own business. After the appeal decision was made, they stuck their noses in anyways and got a year knocked off what your suspension otherwise would have been.

As an alum, when you help Zeta Psi come back from the suspension, you should consider creating a culture of working with your fellow Greeks instead of going it alone.

A common trait of the three remaining fraternities is that they all not only listen to each other, but also actively seek counsel from one another when facing a challenge. You may not see this as a student, but on the alumni level, it is true.

DKE announced the final disposition of their last semester charges does not even include probation. Is that wrong?


BPard you are right on the money, I have personal knowledge that Zete refused help and the Dke situation has been resolved. The three remaining frats alums regularly meet and are cooperating with the fraternities making applications to return. The reports I have heard is that the college is needlessly slow walking the applications. There is a push by the administration to allow a non affiliated service fraternity as opposed to the national affiliated types. To me that is not acceptable and an obfuscation of the Byerly statement that fraternities are welcomed back if a recognized nationally charted fraternity is not allowed back. I will cease my giving at that point for everything!!
SixtyEighter

One test of the truthfulness of the college administration will be the application of PiLam to recolonize.The application is or will be pending shortly if it has not been filed already. PiLam contrary to popular belief is not a Jewish House per se.It was de facto Jewish due to circumstances related to its founding and practices in the greek system no longer existing.. It is and always has been non-sectarian and non-race restrictive.One of the main negatives the college is directing towards fraternities is lack of diversity or anti diversity attitudes which in my day were exclusionary charter tenets, For example I just learned the other day through a newspaper column in the Inquirer that Kappa Sig nationally  had such a clause although I don't know if they had i at Lafayettet in the 60's when I attended.Numerous fraternities had "white Christian " eligibility clauses.         Nevertheless the college will be hard pressed to legitimately deny PiLam's attempt to recolonize on non-diversity grounds which I believe will expose non-diversity in this day and age as an excuse to reject Fraternities.For example one of my sons graduated from Carnegie Mellon in 2012 and was a brother in Beta Theta Pi a formerly restrticted fraternity.He says that in four years no one ever asked his religion in the fraternity or in the school at large.A factoid - PiLam has moved its national headquarters to the Lehigh Valley.
ed65

BPard wrote:
ed65, I hear that under the new policy and process, the Board has made the decision. Now it is up to the administration and students to implement. So the Board already moved on.


BPard: I assume you have credibility so I accept what you are saying about the Board but with a little grain of salt.

I feel that the Board is responsible for much of the problems in resolving the fraternity issue partly because they have not been able to control the administration.  The evidence is that the witch hunt undertaken by Weiss and the incredible amount of time effort and cost involved was allowed to go on and on.  IMHO the Board has generally been meek in recent years when it comes to the administration, allowing the administration to hire too many administrators and to concentrate on politically correct issues and other froth that do not move the college in a positive direct.  Another issue is creating a path for increasing the size of the college which I believe is critical for the future. Although it was on Byerly's agenda from early in her term as President, the issue has not be dealt with in any public way that I am aware of.  The seeming lack of caring about the weaknesses of the Athletic Program are another example of the Board's fecklessness.

I'm not trying to be confrontational to BPard but simply trying to express my feelings about the Board.
BPard

Lafalum wrote:
There is a push by the administration to allow a non affiliated service fraternity as opposed to the national affiliated types. To me that is not acceptable and an obfuscation of the Byerly statement that fraternities are welcomed back if a recognized nationally charted fraternity is not allowed back.

That is strange because the process requires national affiliation.
Quote:
B. National Affiliation
For the purposes of this Policy, Lafayette College will only recognize a prospective group that has a National Affiliation. Therefore, the College will not recognize a local fraternity or sorority.
Strong preference may be given to nationally affiliated organizations that are members of one of the governing councils listed below:
 North- American Interfraternity Council (NIC)
 National Panhellenic Conference (NPC)
 National Pan-Hellenic Conference (NPHC)
 National Association of Latino Fraternal Organizations (NALFO)
 National Asian Pacific Islander American Panhellenic Association (NAPA)
 National Multicultural Greek Council (NMGC)
 National Interfraternity Music Council (NIMC)
 United Council of Christian Fraternities & Sororities (UCCFS)
 National American Greek Council (NAGC)
If a prospective group is not affiliated with one of the above governing councils, the prospective group must provide a rationale to the Recognition Committee.


I'd be surprised if in the first go-round, the people who wrote the policy chose to deviate from the policy, but stranger things have happened. Note: every fraternity currently recognized at Lafayette is NIC and every sorority is NPC.

Pi Lam would be the third group I've heard of applying with alumni support. How many students are submitting the application for Pi Lam?

ed65, no offense taken. Time will tell for how long the issue remains settled at the Board level. All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again.
LafStudent2016

When you say Zete refused help who refused help and what help was offered? Would it have made a difference in the sentencing? Actives were kept largely in the dark about the high level negotiations.
ed65

BPard wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
There is a push by the administration to allow a non affiliated service fraternity as opposed to the national affiliated types. To me that is not acceptable and an obfuscation of the Byerly statement that fraternities are welcomed back if a recognized nationally charted fraternity is not allowed back.

That is strange because the process requires national affiliation.
Quote:
B. National Affiliation
For the purposes of this Policy, Lafayette College will only recognize a prospective group that has a National Affiliation. Therefore, the College will not recognize a local fraternity or sorority.
Strong preference may be given to nationally affiliated organizations that are members of one of the governing councils listed below:
 North- American Interfraternity Council (NIC)
 National Panhellenic Conference (NPC)
 National Pan-Hellenic Conference (NPHC)
 National Association of Latino Fraternal Organizations (NALFO)
 National Asian Pacific Islander American Panhellenic Association (NAPA)
 National Multicultural Greek Council (NMGC)
 National Interfraternity Music Council (NIMC)
 United Council of Christian Fraternities & Sororities (UCCFS)
 National American Greek Council (NAGC)
If a prospective group is not affiliated with one of the above governing councils, the prospective group must provide a rationale to the Recognition Committee.


I'd be surprised if in the first go-round, the people who wrote the policy chose to deviate from the policy, but stranger things have happened. Note: every fraternity currently recognized at Lafayette is NIC and every sorority is NPC.

Pi Lam would be the third group I've heard of applying with alumni support. How many students are submitting the application for Pi Lam?

ed65, no offense taken. Time will tell for how long the issue remains settled at the Board level. All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again.


Thanks BPard.  The lack of transparency from Board Meetings and their opaqueness drive me to distraction.  It's as if the Board is a secret society or dare I say a fraternity/sorority.
Lafalum

LafStudent2016 wrote:
When you say Zete refused help who refused help and what help was offered? Would it have made a difference in the sentencing? Actives were kept largely in the dark about the high level negotiations.


They were offered legal as well as help given other frats experiences in similar circumstances. They offered help in constructing defenses and arguments made in previous disciplinary hearings and previous agreements after suspensions.
LafStudent2016

Interesting. Im going to have to contact our alumni board to see what was up with that one. Disappointing how everything played out but not sure what more we can do on campus as students to get back in the house next year for our senior year or help other chapters come back. On the positive side it appears the house will remain unoccupied for the foreseeable future protecting Zeta Psi control over the house. Very smart move to "renovate" the house indefinitely. Ill never have the chance to live in that house but hopefully ill be able to return to it as an alumni.


Lafalum wrote:
LafStudent2016 wrote:
When you say Zete refused help who refused help and what help was offered? Would it have made a difference in the sentencing? Actives were kept largely in the dark about the high level negotiations.


They were offered legal as well as help given other frats experiences in similar circumstances. They offered help in constructing defenses and arguments made in previous disciplinary hearings and previous agreements after suspensions.
flyfisher

I am hearing the same things that 2016 says. This new process seems to be another way for the university to stall. I can't see why the college would ever give these houses back to the frats. It may force some to go off campus. I'm surprised lawyers are not involved. As to donations, the big donors will still be there. The middle and smaller donors continue to disappear. Personally I gave to every college cause last year. Athletic and academic. While I am not a big donor, I gave more last year that I ever donated to my own school. Or my older sons school. But going forward I will support the Marron Club only. I want to see how this plays out. While I am small by LC standards, the schools stance is breeding this same position in many of the kids there now.
ed65

flyfisher wrote:
I am hearing the same things that 2016 says. This new process seems to be another way for the university to stall. I can't see why the college would ever give these houses back to the frats. It may force some to go off campus. I'm surprised lawyers are not involved. As to donations, the big donors will still be there. The middle and smaller donors continue to disappear. Personally I gave to every college cause last year. Athletic and academic. While I am not a big donor, I gave more last year that I ever donated to my own school. Or my older sons school. But going forward I will support the Marron Club only. I want to see how this plays out. While I am small by LC standards, the schools stance is breeding this same position in many of the kids there now.


Fly: I certainly understand your feelings.  I only contribute directly to sports such as baseball and football.  At least I know where the money goes.  An exception is a scholarship that we have set up as our 50th Reunion Gift.  As for the Maroon Club, I'm not sure how the donations are allocated.  

The college's attitude about fraternities has caused more dissension with alums than anything I can remember since Rothkopf's disastrous attack on athletics.  The admin needs to get its head out of the sand and stand by the policies endorsed by the Board (if BPard is correct, the Board may have done a good thing here for a change).  And Board members should be all over the admin to get the ball rolling.  The fact that the school is still dealing with the frat issue two years after the odious Weiss is gone makes me furious.  It is a total waste of time and energy by a small group of politically correct hirelings in the admin.
Lafalum

I received the following chronology from a friend this morning and it is instructive. I've shortened it somewhat but clearly shows a pattern:

June 21,1993 Lafayette College Trustees approve Fraternity/ Sorority Recolonization guidelines

March 8, 1994 Administration issues guidelines for Recognition procedures

Sept 1994 DU given permission to return

Fall 2005 Chi Phi  negotiates their suspension and return guidelines. They are offered to return in five years in return the college is allowed to use the house. DU is moved to the house and out of the former  Phi Delt house which is converted to office space.

Spring 2008- Ad Hoc Committee on Residence Life- " The primary purpose for scheduling this review of the Lafayette College residence life program is to provide the College officials with a sense of direction as we implement the strategic plan and continue to the shape the residential experience for our students during the next decade."

Sept 2009- The (ad hoc) Committee recommends that no additional traditional Greek letter organizations ( or any other single sex organizations),
new or recolonized be established at Lafayette College,pending the completion of the work this year of the "Working Group on Greek Life and Campus Community,"

Feb 3, 2010- Working Group formed

Feb 25,2010 Campus Climate Study published.
Dec 2010 Campus Climate Study Results announced

Dec. 2010 GLWG Report to Trustees with 31 recommendations " The working group encountered substantial bifurcation of opinion regarding the number of fraternities and sororities that should exist at Lafayette."

Oct 22 2011- Trustee statement on Greek Life " ….THe Board has decided that if the above objectives have not been achieved in three years , or if interim benchmarks, to be established , indicating satisfactory progress toward their achievement are not met the College will consider all options, including the elimination of Greek organizations from the Lafayette campus."

The Board voted that, during the three year period of implementation and evaluation, NO additional greek organizations, in including Chi Phi, be granted approval to recolonize and return to campus. Note: At that point the college was in violation of the signed agreement with Chi Phi and Chi Phi sued.  
If  following this three year period the Board concludes that the objectives listed above have been achieved, the Board agreed that it would consider a request from Chi Phi to recolonize.
Note: That period ended May 2914 and the college continues to refuse to accept an application from Chi Phi reneging again.

Dec 13, 2011 Implementation and Assessment Group on Greek Life ( IAGGL) formed

Feb 2013 Trustees approve policy Prohibiting On campus student participation in unrecognized Greek Organization.

Nov 2013- Presidential Task Force on the Integrated Student Experience Established

May 2014 Lafayette Trustees receive IAGGL report

May 2014 Connected Comunties announced: " In a message to the campus community , President Byerly acknowledged the cost to the Lafayette community of years of continued debate about Greek life. " I am very pleased that the Board has provided resolutions to this issue," she said.

The new structure will be called Connected Communities. An application process will be developed in the fall for all proposed groups.

Feb 2014 Chi application was turned back for lack of a clear process by the college. Two other expressions of interest likewise were turned aside.

There are now indications actual applications will not be accepted until the fall and reports the college is trying to organize a group of students into a co ed greek organization.

My addition:

With the Zeta house off line, and Dke's doing renovations, and conversion of greek residences into office space, combined with the College's desire to increase the student population, there is now a shortage of beds for next year.

If there is no movement by June I will suspend all giving of money to the school. I do not do business with perfidious organizations.
BPard

Fly - lawyers were involved with Chi Phi, who sued the College. The College won the case, but everybody lost.

LS16 - If actives were kept in the dark, that is a shame. At a minimum, the officers should've been part and parcel of the conversation.

Unfortunately, you're right there's not much you can do as students now. Best you can probably hope for is for alumni to negotiate use of the house for special events. It's not the same as living there, but as a student, you should still be able to attend 2-4 events a year at the Zeta Psi house if your alumni are interested in hosting such events there. This happens both at Lafayette, and at other colleges.

Lafalum, That's quite a timeline. I haven't heard about delaying application acceptance until next year or button-hooking the first slot to a specific group.  

While the conversions were asinine (and I've heard that Byerly asked wtf the College was thinking in doing these conversion), Zeta Psi is ~11 beds. Not exactly make or break for a school Lafayette's size. DKE says they'll be open. Not sure what KDR and Chi Phi are doing with their houses.

Each building has three occupancy numbers - design, normal, and overload capacity. I'd be surprised if many buildings were approaching their overload capacity.

276 students live off campus each year in college-owned (175), "The Residence @ March St" (31) and private off campus (70). The College could easily let more live privately off campus if every building on campus really was at overload capacity.
flyfisher

Chi Phi house is in good shape. it appears to be overflow housing for the college. i have been in there multiple times.

With a shortage of beds and land on the hill I cant see the college giving up bed space in the other houses. The Chi Phi is about half empty. Beautiful house by the way.

Most of you know that frats are not what they used to be. You dont walk downstairs and find a fresh keg on tap every day. Its now more about having a bed and a place to gather for 4-5 times a semester as well as a place for alumni to meet on football game weekends. Due to the new college rules I dont think you are going to se much alcohol around. The benefit is the friendships you make as well as the memories and cultivating that bond with the college for decades to come, which leads to donations.

Some of you may ask, why do I care? i was in a frat. i was the alumni advisor. I am on an alumni advisory board now. I worked for 1 year for the national fraternity. And We all donate to the school due to the memories we have there. i can assure you it wasn't the classroom or professor experiences we had. I am a big supporter of greek life. while the academics are important, the fellowship you have in school sometimes means more once you have graduated. the people you meet, the friendships you form.

I am a huge, huge fan of LC. I wish I could have attended a school like LC. Personally I see great potential in many areas beyond the great things already in place. I am not saying I could do better. I know that I cannot. In the case of LC i see a great academic school, very nice facilities, a history of strong athletic performance, a beautiful campus...the list goes on. So please understand my opinions come from passion and not anger.
Lafalum

I have heard the school is short about 45 beds
leopard88

flyfisher wrote:

I am a huge, huge fan of LC. I wish I could have attended a school like LC. Personally I see great potential in many areas beyond the great things already in place. I am not saying I could do better. I know that I cannot. In the case of LC i see a great academic school, very nice facilities, a history of strong athletic performance, a beautiful campus...the list goes on. So please understand my opinions come from passion and not anger.


Well said.
Bogus Megapardus

SixtyEighter wrote:
One test of the truthfulness of the college administration will be the application of PiLam to recolonize.


Pi Lam is a strong house on many campuses.  It would be great to have them back as well.  It's a shame that they can't get their old house back, though - it's now the Lafayette Inn.  As far as I know, Pi Lam didn't have disciplinary issues with the college; it was closed due to "low occupancy."  I heard that the college tried to insist that all the rooms in the house were supposed to be triples and quads.  I'm not sure that would fly under current circumstances.
flyfisher

Learned a few things recently. To be in a fraternity you actually have to have a 2.65 GPA. This is a LC requirement, no one else. You can actually join and be recognized by nationals but not the school chapter. College did their recent studies on GPA thinking the average student would have better grades than the Greek system but it was the other way around. Frats are trying to make a comeback at the College and trying to work with the College. Progress, if you can call it that, is very slow.
Lafalum

I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.
BPard

Lafalum wrote:
I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.
Isn't increasing the size of the College a good thing? Looks like we are on track for 2800 in four years!

Is the handwringing over 2015-2016 or the future?

There are plenty of quick fixes for the short term (2015-2016).
Lafalum

BPard wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.
Isn't increasing the size of the College a good thing? Looks like we are on track for 2800 in four years!

Is the handwringing over 2015-2016 or the future?

There are plenty of quick fixes for the short term (2015-2016).


Oh yes, I am totally for increasing the size. What I am hearing is that this was unplanned for this year and ironic considering in the past 10 years how many beds we eliminated. I suppose this will be good for rental property landlords on the hill!!
Recall the original advent of Greek life was because of shortage of housing and the college became very accommodative for Greek owned housing. What comes around goes around!!!
Also Rothkopf was totally against anyone living off campus, now it will become a necessity.
Do I hear that friday afternoon classes will reappear and for you old timers saturday morning classes or labs???? Probably not, but fun for our current 4 class a semester recent undergrads. ( We had five) Wink
Franks Tanks

Lafalum wrote:
I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.


Wow, that shouldn't be a problem.  Allow some additional seniors or juniors to find their own housing off campus, and I bet many will jump at the chance.

I understand obtaining a lease for the school year at this point of the year may be a bit difficult, but I guarantee there is rental vacancy on the hill for 50 or so kids to move off campus.
Lafalum

Franks Tanks wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.


Wow, that shouldn't be a problem.  Allow some additional seniors or juniors to find their own housing off campus, and I bet many will jump at the chance.

I understand obtaining a lease for the school year at this point of the year may be a bit difficult, but I guarantee there is rental vacancy on the hill for 50 or so kids to move off campus.


Fiscally, this could be a huge financial shot in the arm for the college.
bethlehempard

Yes and no; any quick increase in the student population means at least a temporary drop in the college's much-prized endowment per student.
Very good news all the same.
flyfisher

Rental space on the hill is in short supply. And they have very strict rules about being able to move off campus.
BillS

Lafalum wrote:
I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.
we should all be happy about a bigger freshman class! This isn't rocket science dorm/room space will work it self out. Ideally an enrollment of 2800-3000 students after 5 years would be awesome!
Lafalum

BillS wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.
we should all be happy about a bigger freshman class! This isn't rocket science dorm/room space will work it self out. Ideally an enrollment of 2800-3000 students after 5 years would be awesome!


Agreed, but this should have been better planned. In the long run a good thing.
bethlehempard

For comparison, Dartmouth has about 4,200 undergraduates and supports 35 sports and all other kinds of wonderful things. Now they also have an endowment approaching $5 billion.
If Lafayette makes the move to 3,000, adding sports probably isn't the issue. Improving some would be a small part of such a move. Improving other things too.
It would take a big capital campaign to make that leap and probably construction off-campus but still of course on the Hill.
The endowment per student would otherwise take a hit that would knock Lafayette down in one of its most-prized rankings.
Lafalum

Endowment per student is a BS metric in a era of huge fixed expenses. If we dropped to 1000 student would we be a better school with our endowment per student twice what it is now? Obviously not!!

As in the the private sector, revenue dollars per student is far more important to cover the fixed expenses to run our infrastructure including a sports program that remains at about 500 student athletes!!

Each new graduate also represents a future annuity in giving. Far more important.
bethlehempard

Perhaps.
My humble opinion is, endowment is everything.
Low endowment-per-student private schools are the first to suffer in a downturn.
Projected annuities are nice. Money invested is the real deal.

Did our alumni-giving rate (for what it's worth as $1 counts) ever hit 40 percent?
And our tuition discount is still around 37 percent?

The mathematics behind admission is quite interesting. One very bad forecast can have repercussions for years.
Lafalum

I don't think it is everything but point taken it helps. As an aside I tend to believe it is net endowment that counts ( endowment minus debt). Our debt is is about 170 million, but still significant. Our fiscal position all things considered is good and getting better. All the more remarkable given the marketplace's resistance to tuition increases.

You are quite correct though our giving rate is below 40 pct and our discount rate is about 37 pct though better than the above 40 pct rate it was several years ago. Like many industries today, economies of scale are paramount even in higher education. Education is unique in that labor efficiency is not a goal, in fact considered sign of low quality.
bethlehempard

Online education is the potential big issue but if it hurts anybody, it might be the lower-grade graduate programs first.
Kids still like to go to college. Especially to Lafayette.
I read about a small school in Maryland a couple years ago that misread its matriculation rate and the shortfall threatened to bring down the president and even the school (not Sweet Briar, they are in Virginia and they appeared to crumble quietly for years).
I would love to listen to an admissions planning meeting. Does the approach changes much, year-to-year?
That's the lifeblood of the college -- who's the next class?
Harvard's matriculation rate is in the high 70s and I heard Fordham's is 11 percent.
Perhaps Fordham's Catholic status plays a role. Maybe the kid set on a Catholic education wants ND/Georgetown/BC first then Cross and then considers Fordham and then others.
Yes Fordham yield 11.5 percent. The Ivies and others start showing in the low 50s.
Bogus Megapardus

bethlehempard wrote:
Online education is the potential big issue but if it hurts anybody, it might be the lower-grade graduate programs first.

Kids still like to go to college. Especially to Lafayette.


Indeed.  

As I once joked on another forum, "Thank you for shopping Rutgers of Hackensack.  Your receipt is your diploma.  Have a nice day."

Serious, hyper-intensive (and life-changing) undergraduate education will continue at the best residential liberal arts and engineering colleges (such as Lafayette).  The best graduate and post-graduate education will remain at large universities that have the infrastructure and facilities to support it.  (On-line medical school?  I don't think so.)

Just about all the MBA, MFA and Ed.M, etc. degrees are going to be on-line within a generation, though.

Query - does this make DI athletics at Lafayette more important?
Bogus Megapardus

Lafalum wrote:
I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.


Any notion of how many of the new admits are dedicated to engineering and hard sciences?
Lafalum

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
I have heard from an impeccable source the school has letters from 690 rising freshman who have accepted offers for admission. The hope is that there will be significant summer melt. The target class was 635. There is a LOT of handwringing on the hill. Converting many of the frat houses to office space has turned into one dumb decision. There is a desire to cram people into existing dorm space but there are written agreements with greeks not to do that in most cases.


Any notion of how many of the new admits are dedicated to engineering and hard sciences?


No idea
Lafalum

bethlehempard wrote:

I read about a small school in Maryland a couple years ago that misread its matriculation rate and the shortfall threatened to bring down the president and even the school (not Sweet Briar, they are in Virginia and they appeared to crumble quietly for years).
I would love to listen to an admissions planning meeting. Does the approach changes much, year-to-year?
That's the lifeblood of the college -- who's the next class?


Actually Sweet Briar was one to tout the endowment/student ratio and it shocked the Faculty and Students when their closing was announced. Our approach has changed during the year as it became obvious the class could be a big one. Standards went up as the year went on. This has driven some of the athletic recruiting nuts. Recruits that were admitable  early were not admitable by mid spring. It has become an issue in some sports,
LeopardBall10

Lafalum wrote:
Standards went up as the year went on. This has driven some of the athletic recruiting nuts. Recruits that were admitable  early were not admitable by mid spring. It has become an issue in some sports,


This tends to be the case more years than not, at least for football. The coaches know that a guy near the AI floor has almost no chance, but getting him read by admissions early in the year is key. The longer you wait, the more applicants admissions reads, the larger the risk appears.
Lafalum

LeopardBall10 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
Standards went up as the year went on. This has driven some of the athletic recruiting nuts. Recruits that were admitable  early were not admitable by mid spring. It has become an issue in some sports,


This tends to be the case more years than not, at least for football. The coaches know that a guy near the AI floor has almost no chance, but getting him read by admissions early in the year is key. The longer you wait, the more applicants admissions reads, the larger the risk appears.


If you are recruiting a soccer, field hockey, or basketball player in europe or South America where they tend to make decisions late, it is a huge issue. I think we need to be more culturally aware in the process.
ed65

Last weekend at Reunion I got the impression that the Admissions Dept. is on a roll, and quite proud of itself.  But no one asked the question of what the "yield" was.  I also could not determine if the Director of Admissions understands the issues involved with late athletic recruits.  He danced around a lot of questions at the Saturday morning breakfast.

The incoming class will be large which is a good thing and continues the gradual increase in the size of the school.

I got the impression that Byerly is ok with fraternities being acceptable as a living group in the new setup (many of my classmates asked her about it at the President's Reception on Friday evening).  But she was more enthusiastic about the music kids or computer kids who live together.

Of course, as Lafalum has pointed out, Chi Phi's petition to return is the elephant in the room.  If the "process' that has been set up for applications of new living groups is reasonable and transparent, Chi Phi should be a no brainer.  I believe another frat has applied as well.
Lafalum

ed65 wrote:
Last weekend at Reunion I got the impression that the Admissions Dept. is on a roll, and quite proud of itself.  But no one asked the question of what the "yield" was.  I also could not determine if the Director of Admissions understands the issues involved with late athletic recruits.  He danced around a lot of questions at the Saturday morning breakfast.

The incoming class will be large which is a good thing and continues the gradual increase in the size of the school.

I got the impression that Byerly is ok with fraternities being acceptable as a living group in the new setup (many of my classmates asked her about it at the President's Reception on Friday evening).  But she was more enthusiastic about the music kids or computer kids who live together.

Of course, as Lafalum has pointed out, Chi Phi's petition to return is the elephant in the room.  If the "process' that has been set up for applications of new living groups is reasonable and transparent, Chi Phi should be a no brainer.  I believe another frat has applied as well.


yes DTD
Bogus Megapardus

ed65 wrote:
But she was more enthusiastic about the music kids or computer kids who live together.


I'll never understand this.  My fraternity had engineers, English-major preppy types, Kirby Hall politicos, varsity athletes, artsy types, biochemists, nerds, punks, jocks, potheads - you name it.  What's the point in dividing and classifying?  I know this has been chewed over again and again but I still don't get it.
DaveR

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
ed65 wrote:
But she was more enthusiastic about the music kids or computer kids who live together.


I'll never understand this.  My fraternity had engineers, English-major preppy types, Kirby Hall politicos, varsity athletes, artsy types, biochemists, nerds, punks, jocks, potheads - you name it.  What's the point in dividing and classifying?  I know this has been chewed over again and again but I still don't get it.

I'm with you Bogie.  I think diversity is a good thing in this instance.
Lafalum

DaveR wrote:
Bogus Megapardus wrote:
ed65 wrote:
But she was more enthusiastic about the music kids or computer kids who live together.


I'll never understand this.  My fraternity had engineers, English-major preppy types, Kirby Hall politicos, varsity athletes, artsy types, biochemists, nerds, punks, jocks, potheads - you name it.  What's the point in dividing and classifying?  I know this has been chewed over again and again but I still don't get it.

I'm with you Bogie.  I think diversity is a good thing in this instance.


I was an eco major and roomed with a chem eng. Our frat had a english majors who became doctors, religion majors who run their own businesses and I thought that cross fertilization of disciplines is what we were after as a school.
leopard88

DaveR wrote:
Bogus Megapardus wrote:
ed65 wrote:
But she was more enthusiastic about the music kids or computer kids who live together.


I'll never understand this.  My fraternity had engineers, English-major preppy types, Kirby Hall politicos, varsity athletes, artsy types, biochemists, nerds, punks, jocks, potheads - you name it.  What's the point in dividing and classifying?  I know this has been chewed over again and again but I still don't get it.

I'm with you Bogie.  I think diversity is a good thing in this instance.

My house had swimmers, baseball players, runners and a lacrosse player . . . and lots of engineers, future doctors, future lawyers (one of whom was an engineer), one future doctor/lawyer and one future homebuilder.

It's interesting that when we all self-selected, a certain amount (or at least type) of diversity resulted.

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