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Pards Rule

Coaching Possibilities

Who realistically? Mike Drass from Wesley College in Dover, DE? Heffner? Loose? Donnelly? We need to starting making a list if this is in the works already as others have obliquely stated here.
Franks Tanks

Re: Coaching Possibilities

Pards Rule wrote:
Who realistically? Mike Drass from Wesley College in Dover, DE? Heffner? Loose? Donnelly? We need to starting making a list if this is in the works already as others have obliquely stated here.


No D3 guys.  I think we need someone with experience recruiting and managing rosters in an FCS scholarship environment. Heff is probably too old and comfortable to change now.  I would take Loose in a second of interested, but no idea of his aspirations.

Would like a quality young assistant in a power FCS league, but o don't have a specific guy in mind.
Lafalum

Agreed no D3 in any sport,especially football!! No current assistants. If there is to be a change we need a whole new perspective. I hope that is possible with our current leadership!! We need to make a statement!!
adcs2

Tim Cramsey
Franks Tanks

Cramsey would be great, but he in now the OC at Nevada.  If he is willing to leave and come home we should snatch him up.  We could do worse than Wroblewski if it came to that.
Pards Rule

Franks Tanks wrote:
Cramsey would be great, but he in now the OC at Nevada.  If he is willing to leave and come home we should snatch him up.  We could do worse than Wroblewski if it came to that.


Yeah, I recall hearing his name a couple years ago. He is in his 2nd season at Nevada. Would he be willing to take a chance of a complete rebuild at Lafayette?
Kpard

John Troxell
Lafalum

Kpard wrote:
John Troxell


Never coached or played in a scholarship environment. Interesing choice but doesn't excite me as a radical change. I want a totally new approach. If you need a change make a CHANGE that says something!! It says something not only about football but the whole approach to athletics!!
Franks Tanks

Lafalum wrote:
Kpard wrote:
John Troxell


Never coached or played in a scholarship environment. Interesing choice but doesn't excite me as a radical change. I want a totally new approach. If you need a change make a CHANGE that says something!! It says something about football but the whole approach to athletics!!


Agree.  Trox is one of the best dudes you will ever meet, but he has spent a decade in D3 at this point.  We really need someone who can recruit and build a roster with 60 scholarships.   Frank has really failed in this regard.   If we must stick with former Pards, Damian Wroblewski is always out there.  Current OC at Elon, and had good jobs at Rutgers and Delaware. This guy is an old fashioned no-nonsense azz kicker.  A real one, not the Frank (I am going to pretend I'm really pissed but do nothing) Tavani.  Not sure he is the best candidate, but would have the proper resume.
Kpard

Lafalum wrote:
Kpard wrote:
John Troxell


Never coached or played in a scholarship environment. Interesing choice but doesn't excite me as a radical change. I want a totally new approach. If you need a change make a CHANGE that says something!! It says something not only about football but the whole approach to athletics!!


Then due to his ties to the current coaches Loose should also not be considered.
Lafalum

Only if he proposes a house cleaning. Otherwise its more of the same. I would still have doubts about someone who has not been in a scholarship environment. The service academies are a whole different matter recruiting.
LeopardBall10

I think some of us are jumping the gun a little here. First, is this even really going to happen? As in, will the college actually do a national search to fill this job?

If things stay status quo, which Fly and others have suggested they will, the AD and administration will not be held accountable, Frank "retires" at the end of his contract, and Mickey is named head coach. I really don't see Trox making the move because he has already been a head coach for 11 years with one program. Even if it is DIII his pay is decent, and he has stability. You don't leave that for a minor pay bump and have to deal with the train wreck that is Lafayette.

Second, will we be willing to pay the going rate for an FCS head coaching job/staff? Right now Frank is making about $150,000 base plus college house, vehicle, phone, etc. According to a report last year the top FCS coaches were making about $300,000 base with incentives taking to the $450,000 plus car, etc. Loose, a position coach at Army is currently making more than Frank. Tim Cramsey whose name has been brought up is probably making at least double what Frank makes as an FBS coordinator. If we are willing to pay around $200,00 base and bump both coordinators up, now you can get some top tier talent and actually pull a successful head coach from another FCS power conference. As it stands you will have a hard time pulling a coordinator from a developed FCS program because the salary would be almost linear move.
flyfisher

LeopardBall10 wrote:
I think some of us are jumping the gun a little here. First, is this even really going to happen? As in, will the college actually do a national search to fill this job?

If things stay status quo, which Fly and others have suggested they will, the AD and administration will not be held accountable, Frank "retires" at the end of his contract, and Mickey is named head coach. I really don't see Trox making the move because he has already been a head coach for 11 years with one program. Even if it is DIII his pay is decent, and he has stability. You don't leave that for a minor pay bump and have to deal with the train wreck that is Lafayette.

Second, will we be willing to pay the going rate for an FCS head coaching job/staff? Right now Frank is making about $150,000 base plus college house, vehicle, phone, etc. According to a report last year the top FCS coaches were making about $300,000 base with incentives taking to the $450,000 plus car, etc. Loose, a position coach at Army is currently making more than Frank. Tim Cramsey whose name has been brought up is probably making at least double what Frank makes as an FBS coordinator. If we are willing to pay around $200,00 base and bump both coordinators up, now you can get some top tier talent and actually pull a successful head coach from another FCS power conference. As it stands you will have a hard time pulling a coordinator from a developed FCS program because the salary would be almost linear move.


Actually I cant see even LC not making a change. Putting personal comments and feelings aside, it is the perfect time for every reason to make a change...contract term, money, performance. It just cant stop there. Athletics have to become important to LC. Until our leadership sees the value of athletics I don't think we will reach our full potential.

As to Loose, he knows the landscape at LC, knows where the bones are buried. This could be good and bad. He knows what he has to deal with. He just may want to put himself through this.
SixtyEighter

I have been loathe to call for Tavani to be fired until this year. I did express surprise that he could keep his job after a 1 win season.Earlier this season after one of the debacles I called for a clean sweep of the coaching staff.I am also reluctant to make that demand  as well. I called for a clean sweep when Bill Russo was let go and was surprised by Frank's early teams' eventual success when he was hired in house .The losing culture must be excised. However I would start by getting rid of McCutcheon. The malaise seems to flow from him. He is not dedicated to winning. He is dedicated to mediocrity and is far too tolerant of the tsunami of losing.I don't know if he fights to get budget concessions for his coaches or just goes along to get along.He is too secure. Frank is quoted in the paper today saying losing has become casual. This comfort with losing must be changed and it seems a no brainer to start with McCutcheon. An AD who demands at least perennial respectability if not conference championships must be brought in. All other PL schools seem to operate this way. None tolerates the unabated  losing that goes on in Easton year after year.The AD position seems to be problematic. When McCutheon wanted to leave no one could be found who wanted the job except him.This leads to the conclusion that there is an institutional problem that is apparent to the outside applicants which causes them to not want the job.I would suggest someone like Dave Cohen from Clawson's Wake Forest team to replace Tavani. Cohen's credentials are a template for the next hire. He has PL experience. He has head coaching experience at FCS level. He has big time game coaching experience . Hehas big time (ACC) recruiting experience. He has experience recruiting at all levels and for recruiting actual student athletes as well as pure football players.And he knows good linemen on both sides of the ball when he sees them.I am not suggesting this guy specifically but as a model  for the  choice.We can only hope for someone like Cohen.
NewXbo

Well, we can name a bunch of coaches who were successful but that doesn't guarantee they will be successful at Lafayette. There are other factors that must be addressed. Let me give you an example:

Lehigh brought in Kevin Higgins in 1994.  

His record at Lehigh was:5-5-1, 8-3, 5-6, 4-7, 12-1, 10-2, & 12-1.

He left,  and surfaced at Citadel. His record there was: 4-7, 5-6, 7-4, 4-8, 4-7, 3-8, 4-7, 7-4, 5-7.

Same coach, similar school but not as successful. So, if Lafayette signed Kevin Higgins, which category would he fall into?????
flyfisher

SixtyEighter wrote:
I have been loathe to call for Tavani to be fired until this year. I did express surprise that he could keep his job after a 1 win season.Earlier this season after one of the debacles I called for a clean sweep of the coaching staff.I am also reluctant to make that demand  as well. I called for a clean sweep when Bill Russo was let go and was surprised by Frank's early teams' eventual success when he was hired in house .The losing culture must be excised. However I would start by getting rid of McCutcheon. The malaise seems to flow from him. He is not dedicated to winning. He is dedicated to mediocrity and is far too tolerant of the tsunami of losing.I don't know if he fights to get budget concessions for his coaches or just goes along to get along.He is too secure. Frank is quoted in the paper today saying losing has become casual. This comfort with losing must be changed and it seems a no brainer to start with McCutcheon. An AD who demands at least perennial respectability if not conference championships must be brought in. All other PL schools seem to operate this way. None tolerates the unabated  losing that goes on in Easton year after year.The AD position seems to be problematic. When McCutheon wanted to leave no one could be found who wanted the job except him.This leads to the conclusion that there is an institutional problem that is apparent to the outside applicants which causes them to not want the job.I would suggest someone like Dave Cohen from Clawson's Wake Forest team to replace Tavani. Cohen's credentials are a template for the next hire. He has PL experience. He has head coaching experience at FCS level. He has big time game coaching experience . Hehas big time (ACC) recruiting experience. He has experience recruiting at all levels and for recruiting actual student athletes as well as pure football players.And he knows good linemen on both sides of the ball when he sees them.I am not suggesting this guy specifically but as a model  for the  choice.We can only hope for someone like Cohen.


You say Bruce needs to go, maybe he does. But then you say no one wanted his job. What does that tell you? The problems extend beyond him.
Lafalum

It's more likely we are unwilling to pay for a quality AD. That suggests an institutional problem and he/she should report to the president. He should be VP for athletics and probably include intra murals too. Large budget would certainly justify the larger salary and reporting lines.
Pard4Life

We need to get rid of the AD.

Chris Partridge would be good but adios he's in the big time and not looking back now.
CHIP72

I wouldn't rule out looking at some successful D2 head coaches.
Jpao92

I know someone who is going to coach the Pards next year.   His name is Frank Tavani.  Until someone can show me evidence to the contrary, I see the College extending his contract, perhaps as a nice way to continue to thumb their noses at alums, something they seemingly enjoy.
The Maroon

Jpao92 wrote:
I know someone who is going to coach the Pards next year.   His name is Frank Tavani.  Until someone can show me evidence to the contrary, I see the College extending his contract, perhaps as a nice way to continue to thumb their noses at alums, something they seemingly enjoy.


I'm concerned you are dead on. Tavani will leave on his own terms. Bruce hasn't the balls.
The Maroon

NewXbo wrote:
Well, we can name a bunch of coaches who were successful but that doesn't guarantee they will be successful at Lafayette. There are other factors that must be addressed. Let me give you an example:

Lehigh brought in Kevin Higgins in 1994.  

His record at Lehigh was:5-5-1, 8-3, 5-6, 4-7, 12-1, 10-2, & 12-1.

He left,  and surfaced at Citadel. His record there was: 4-7, 5-6, 7-4, 4-8, 4-7, 3-8, 4-7, 7-4, 5-7.

Same coach, similar school but not as successful. So, if Lafayette signed Kevin Higgins, which category would he fall into?????


The Citadel can't be the easiest place to recruit.

Pete Lembo! (Something to prove!)
bethlehempard

I thought about Lembo too. He made $515,000 in his last year at Ball State before becoming an assistant at Maryland. He had a winning record at BSU but won only three games in his last season.
I suspect he'd like to beat Lehigh but he's a Big 10 guy now.
There's also Hank Small, a remarkably decent fellow who had a respectable record at Lehigh and is now AD at Charleston Southern.
Franks Tanks

The Maroon wrote:
NewXbo wrote:
Well, we can name a bunch of coaches who were successful but that doesn't guarantee they will be successful at Lafayette. There are other factors that must be addressed. Let me give you an example:

Lehigh brought in Kevin Higgins in 1994.  

His record at Lehigh was:5-5-1, 8-3, 5-6, 4-7, 12-1, 10-2, & 12-1.

He left,  and surfaced at Citadel. His record there was: 4-7, 5-6, 7-4, 4-8, 4-7, 3-8, 4-7, 7-4, 5-7.

Same coach, similar school but not as successful. So, if Lafayette signed Kevin Higgins, which category would he fall into?????


The Citadel can't be the easiest place to recruit.

Pete Lembo! (Something to prove!)


Pete is making 350k at Maryland.  Higgins is a good coach, but he also had a tremendous staff at Lehigh in those days.  2 future FBS head coaches in Lembo and Clawson, as well as Coen, Gilmore and Chechinni ( all current FCS head coaches).  Lehigh had arguably the best coaching staff in the history of the league in those years.  Higgins gets credit for assembling that staff, but also benefited greatly from those guys.
LeopardBall10

It's not that Lafayette couldn't find anyone to do Bruce'S job, it's that they couldn't find anyone to do it for the $$$ Bruce is making. Lafayette does things on a budget, so when they did a national search for the position they realized that everyone the search committee approached asked for more than was budgeted. The same thing happened after George Bright left. The college did a national search for an Asst. AD for facilities.  The top candidate would not accept the salary offer and walked. So we ended up hiring a budget asst. who couldn't do the job and Kaity had to take over his responsibility a year later.

I don't disagree with all of you re: the systemic problem. I just don't see that changing. Too far down the rabbit hole and all that. I do know, tho that a good coach who has the energy to work the system can win here, despite the school shortcomings.
Lafalum

Cancel the damn elevator at 10 million dollars and you free up 500k  per year for salaries at a 5 pct return and you still have the 10 million. If you want to do it you can.

Do we still have a BOT.....Do I hear anything but crickets from that crew!!
SixtyEighter

Delaware AD pulled the trigger and fired Dave Brock after 1 1/2 seasons.
flyfisher

LeopardBall10 wrote:
It's not that Lafayette couldn't find anyone to do Bruce'S job, it's that they couldn't find anyone to do it for the $$$ Bruce is making. Lafayette does things on a budget, so when they did a national search for the position they realized that everyone the search committee approached asked for more than was budgeted. The same thing happened after George Bright left. The college did a national search for an Asst. AD for facilities.  The top candidate would not accept the salary offer and walked. So we ended up hiring a budget asst. who couldn't do the job and Kaity had to take over his responsibility a year later.

I don't disagree with all of you re: the systemic problem. I just don't see that changing. Too far down the rabbit hole and all that. I do know, tho that a good coach who has the energy to work the system can win here, despite the school shortcomings.


Agree for the most [part. A coach can make a difference. My point is when you get everyone on board and build a whole culture, then you can achieve great things. I spent several years growing our business with some good sales effort. But when we got manufacturing, engineering and quality on board, then we started smoking. That's my point. I love great sales people but if you can produce it efficiently with good quality and better than anyone else, sales gets really easy. I believe the same in building a sports program. A great coach and staff will make a difference. A culture of everyone working together can achieve great things. I still am convinced Lafayette could achieve this. There is no reason we can't be like a Stanford, Duke or Northwestern in FCS. Probably not compete with the N Dak State's of the world but we can and should be able to compete in the academic northeast.
LeopardBall10

flyfisher wrote:
Agree for the most [part. A coach can make a difference. My point is when you get everyone on board and build a whole culture, then you can achieve great things. I spent several years growing our business with some good sales effort. But when we got manufacturing, engineering and quality on board, then we started smoking. That's my point. I love great sales people but if you can produce it efficiently with good quality and better than anyone else, sales gets really easy. I believe the same in building a sports program. A great coach and staff will make a difference. A culture of everyone working together can achieve great things. I still am convinced Lafayette could achieve this. There is no reason we can't be like a Stanford, Duke or Northwestern in FCS. Probably not compete with the N Dak State's of the world but we can and should be able to compete in the academic northeast.


Yes, this is true. And I will be the first to support whatever movement we need to make this happen. But I am just being realistic in the fact that the school is not showing a single sign that it cares. We as alumni cannot do anything that I am aware of to force any changes. I have been asking for over a year what we can do other than write letters and talk to BOT members who don't want to listen. If I don't like my president I use my vote, if I don't like the board of a company I am a part of I use my vote. What lever do I have to pull as a young alumni, who is passionate about the school and football team, who is still working on building something to donate from?

Anyway, until there is the "real" change we all would like to see we need to find a coach who is willing to battle the administration and win in spite of the short comings. That is what Frank is so good at, that is what made him a legend on campus. Not the winning, it was the winning as a finger in the eye of everyone on the hill that wanted to demote football, that wanted him fired, etc. And the team fed off of that. There was a chip on the shoulder of those teams, and adversity during the game on Saturday was nothing. That is what is different now, and what I think a new coach will bring. Unfortunately, our AD and administration won't want to hire that guy as a new coach. Frank just happened to already be on staff.
ed65

flyfisher wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
It's not that Lafayette couldn't find anyone to do Bruce'S job, it's that they couldn't find anyone to do it for the $$$ Bruce is making. Lafayette does things on a budget, so when they did a national search for the position they realized that everyone the search committee approached asked for more than was budgeted. The same thing happened after George Bright left. The college did a national search for an Asst. AD for facilities.  The top candidate would not accept the salary offer and walked. So we ended up hiring a budget asst. who couldn't do the job and Kaity had to take over his responsibility a year later.

I don't disagree with all of you re: the systemic problem. I just don't see that changing. Too far down the rabbit hole and all that. I do know, tho that a good coach who has the energy to work the system can win here, despite the school shortcomings.


Agree for the most [part. A coach can make a difference. My point is when you get everyone on board and build a whole culture, then you can achieve great things. I spent several years growing our business with some good sales effort. But when we got manufacturing, engineering and quality on board, then we started smoking. That's my point. I love great sales people but if you can produce it efficiently with good quality and better than anyone else, sales gets really easy. I believe the same in building a sports program. A great coach and staff will make a difference. A culture of everyone working together can achieve great things. I still am convinced Lafayette could achieve this. There is no reason we can't be like a Stanford, Duke or Northwestern in FCS. Probably not compete with the N Dak State's of the world but we can and should be able to compete in the academic northeast.


I totally agree with fly on getting everyone on board and building a winning athletics culture at LC.  BUT colleges are silos compared with companies unfortunately.  LC is unique in that the administration and the faculty have too much power but the board does not have enough.  However, Alison got the enrollment increase through so there is hope.  I really think she needs to hear from all of us that the college needs to get its act together on athletics.  She is going to get an earful from me when the season is over, and I recommend that everyone on the board call her, email her, write to her, whatever it takes.  I am also going to go to every trustee I know and give them info about the dismal won/loss records of the last few years and make them plainly aware that donations to the Maroon Club are down bec of the poor performance of the teams.

What do you all think?  Do you want to just  gripe about athletics or do something about it?
flyfisher

ed65 wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
It's not that Lafayette couldn't find anyone to do Bruce'S job, it's that they couldn't find anyone to do it for the $$$ Bruce is making. Lafayette does things on a budget, so when they did a national search for the position they realized that everyone the search committee approached asked for more than was budgeted. The same thing happened after George Bright left. The college did a national search for an Asst. AD for facilities.  The top candidate would not accept the salary offer and walked. So we ended up hiring a budget asst. who couldn't do the job and Kaity had to take over his responsibility a year later.

I don't disagree with all of you re: the systemic problem. I just don't see that changing. Too far down the rabbit hole and all that. I do know, tho that a good coach who has the energy to work the system can win here, despite the school shortcomings.


Agree for the most [part. A coach can make a difference. My point is when you get everyone on board and build a whole culture, then you can achieve great things. I spent several years growing our business with some good sales effort. But when we got manufacturing, engineering and quality on board, then we started smoking. That's my point. I love great sales people but if you can produce it efficiently with good quality and better than anyone else, sales gets really easy. I believe the same in building a sports program. A great coach and staff will make a difference. A culture of everyone working together can achieve great things. I still am convinced Lafayette could achieve this. There is no reason we can't be like a Stanford, Duke or Northwestern in FCS. Probably not compete with the N Dak State's of the world but we can and should be able to compete in the academic northeast.


I totally agree with fly on getting everyone on board and building a winning athletics culture at LC.  BUT colleges are silos compared with companies unfortunately.  LC is unique in that the administration and the faculty have too much power but the board does not have enough.  However, Alison got the enrollment increase through so there is hope.  I really think she needs to hear from all of us that the college needs to get its act together on athletics.  She is going to get an earful from me when the season is over, and I recommend that everyone on the board call her, email her, write to her, whatever it takes.  I am also going to go to every trustee I know and give them info about the dismal won/loss records of the last few years and make them plainly aware that donations to the Maroon Club are down bec of the poor performance of the teams.

What do you all think?  Do you want to just  censored about athletics or do something about it?


It has to be a focus for Byerly and the BOT. Diorio is just someone that carries out the direction given to her. She is perfect for the role. Not a big sports enthusiast and definitely not a fan of football. She is perfect to carry out the current direction. Bruce just does as he is told for the most part. I have met with Byerly and spoken several times and she is definitely a smart lady. As to what she believes and what direction she has been given, that is beyond me. However I know they have to stay in budget and are all about raising money. I don't see the budgets but I can only imagine how tough it is to field 23 D1 teams with only 200 students plus endowments. And I am banking they don't want to use endowment money for athletics. Not sure I would either. Thankfully some alumni provided the first rate facilities that they have. Just not sure the decision makers have bought in that successful athletics, especially in the more visible sports, can help raise a lot of money. The fan base is there, just look at the turnout for 150. I understand about the silos and how tough it is to change the culture. it has to come from the top. A coach cant drive that bus. 10 makes good points about Frank sticking a finger in their eye. I don't think they ever thought he would turn the program around many years ago. We need that same drive and enthusiasm.
edge29

ed65 wrote:

I totally agree with fly on getting everyone on board and building a winning athletics culture at LC.  BUT colleges are silos compared with companies unfortunately.  LC is unique in that the administration and the faculty have too much power but the board does not have enough.  However, Alison got the enrollment increase through so there is hope.  I really think she needs to hear from all of us that the college needs to get its act together on athletics.  She is going to get an earful from me when the season is over, and I recommend that everyone on the board call her, email her, write to her, whatever it takes.  I am also going to go to every trustee I know and give them info about the dismal won/loss records of the last few years and make them plainly aware that donations to the Maroon Club are down bec of the poor performance of the teams.

What do you all think?  Do you want to just  censored about athletics or do something about it?


What about the Maroon Club and the FOLF?  I'm on the FOLF mailing list and have never heard of any organized campaigns to convince the Prez or BOTs of anything.  Shouldn't it start there?
ed65

Lafalum wrote:
Cancel the damn elevator at 10 million dollars and you free up 500k  per year for salaries at a 5 pct return and you still have the 10 million. If you want to do it you can.

Do we still have a BOT.....Do I hear anything but crickets from that crew!!


Totally agree: these are college students who are perfectly capable of walking downtown.  The elevator is an unnecessary extravagance.  

Let's use some common sense here.
ed65

edge29 wrote:
ed65 wrote:

I totally agree with fly on getting everyone on board and building a winning athletics culture at LC.  BUT colleges are silos compared with companies unfortunately.  LC is unique in that the administration and the faculty have too much power but the board does not have enough.  However, Alison got the enrollment increase through so there is hope.  I really think she needs to hear from all of us that the college needs to get its act together on athletics.  She is going to get an earful from me when the season is over, and I recommend that everyone on the board call her, email her, write to her, whatever it takes.  I am also going to go to every trustee I know and give them info about the dismal won/loss records of the last few years and make them plainly aware that donations to the Maroon Club are down bec of the poor performance of the teams.

What do you all think?  Do you want to just  censored about athletics or do something about it?


What about the Maroon Club and the FOLF?  I'm on the FOLF mailing list and have never heard of any organized campaigns to convince the Prez or BOTs of anything.  Shouldn't it start there?


Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.
BPard

ed65 wrote:

Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.
$ follows passion. Should be raising hell.

Fly-on endowments, the football HC position is endowed. So yes, they are spending endowment on football.
flyfisher

BPard wrote:
ed65 wrote:

Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.
$ follows passion. Should be raising hell.

Fly-on endowments, the football HC position is endowed. So yes, they are spending endowment on football.


That's nice they cover 1 position. Wow.
flyfisher

The Maroon wrote:
Jpao92 wrote:
I know someone who is going to coach the Pards next year.   His name is Frank Tavani.  Until someone can show me evidence to the contrary, I see the College extending his contract, perhaps as a nice way to continue to thumb their noses at alums, something they seemingly enjoy.


I'm concerned you are dead on. Tavani will leave on his own terms. Bruce hasn't the balls.


Just a pure guess but I would be surprised if Bruce made this decision.
edge29

ed65 wrote:
 Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.


Really?  Aside from one phone call from a fball alum asking for money to fund those missing schollies, I would never know they raise hell. I don't know much about it but it seems as though FOLF is made up of a few well connected alum.  That's a shame and maybe part of the reason why alum are not as influential as we could be.

Think on the number of alum who played at Fisher over the years.  I keep in contact with about 15 of the guys I played with and NOT ONE of them ever mentioned FOLF or helping the program succeed.

Btw 65, you mentioned leaving the Army game early. Are you the kind gentleman who gave us your seat backs in the end zone section ?
ed65

edge29 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
 Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.


Really?  Aside from one phone call from a fball alum asking for money to fund those missing schollies, I would never know they raise hell. I don't know much about it but it seems as though FOLF is made up of a few well connected alum.  That's a shame and maybe part of the reason why alum are not as influential as we could be.

Think on the number of alum who played at Fisher over the years.  I keep in contact with about 15 of the guys I played with and NOT ONE of them ever mentioned FOLF or helping the program succeed.

Btw 65, you mentioned leaving the Army game early. Are you the kind gentleman who gave us your seat backs in the end zone section ?


29: with respect, I suggest you call Jack Bourger some time.  He is the long time head of FOF and LC would not have football program without him.  I have great respect for Jack, and see him at games.  He is very willing to discuss football with you, and he has lots of contact with Byerly and other trustees.  He has made the case for football over and over again through the years.  And FOF has dinged the college big time over how the program is financed (or isn't financed as the case may be).  He has spent loads of his own money on the program.  He is the ultimate insider.  I stopped criticizing Frank several years ago after calling Jack and learning the Frank would get four years of scholies to see what he could do.  But the fallout over Weiss' lowering the equivalencies buried the program in the deep hole from which it has not recovered.  Weiss had the worst judgment of any Pres the college has had - see the Greek issue (a huge mistake) and the equivalencies.
LeopardBall10

ed65 wrote:
Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.


I agree with edge on this one. If they are raising hell I sure don't know about it. Knowing Jack and some of the other men I guess I should expect it though.

But, why not have a more coordinated campaign? I get an email blast every week from FOLF telling me "All I Need To Know About Lafayette vs" and I get letters in the mail asking for donations and sponsorship. Why aren't we leveraging this relatively powerful group (they do fund a huuuge portion of the budget) to at least demand answers or gain some acknowledgment? I feel like this is a battle that LOFL would not want to fight alone.

-----------------------
Updated: Nevermind... I just checked the FOLF website. Check out the first few names listed on the FOLF comittee

Committee Members
Dr. Bruce E. McCutcheon, Director of Athletics
Mr. Frank A. Tavani, Head Football Coach
Mr. Joseph Giaimo, Executive Director Maroon Club  Athletic Development
Mr. Scott Morse, Director Athletic Communications & Promotions
Ms. Donna Holden, Coordinator of Football Events
Mr. John T. Bourger ’71, FoLF Chair Emeritus
Mr. Francis L. Mustaro ’72, FoLF Chair

So, FOLF is just a shill for the college too? Is there really no recourse we have left?! I also found it very intersting that at the bottom of the Comitte page on the FOLF website (http://community.lafayette.edu/friends-of-football/committee-members/) Murry Rosen left a well written comment about the state of the program. This is the FOLF response:

Mr. Rosen,
Thank you for your honest thoughts. As someone personally connected with the program, I wish I could explain why the football program at Lafayette is struggling, but as member of Friends of Lafayette Football, I make it a point not to venture where I do not belong. Although I played at Lafayette in the mid ‘70s, I possess neither the evaluative skills nor the desire to judge the coaches or the athletes. Friends of Lafayette Football exists to provide the Leopards with requisite resources and enhancements beyond what the college provides. We are here to build the brand through fellowship and fundraising. I thank you for caring and taking the time to comment on Lafayette Football something that we both obviously care about. I ask that you not lose hope. If you have the opportunity to attend one of our games, I would like to meet you. Lafayette is one of the places where college football began. We have a long and great storied tradition for the game here on The Hill.

Go ‘Pards!
Allen Haddad ’78, #75
Friends of Lafayette Football
LeopardBall10

ed65 wrote:

29: with respect, I suggest you call Jack Bourger some time.  He is the long time head of FOF and LC would not have football program without him.  I have great respect for Jack, and see him at games.  He is very willing to discuss football with you, and he has lots of contact with Byerly and other trustees.  He has made the case for football over and over again through the years.  And FOF has dinged the college big time over how the program is financed (or isn't financed as the case may be).  He has spent loads of his own money on the program.  He is the ultimate insider.  I stopped criticizing Frank several years ago after calling Jack and learning the Frank would get four years of scholies to see what he could do.  But the fallout over Weiss' lowering the equivalencies buried the program in the deep hole from which it has not recovered.  Weiss had the worst judgment of any Pres the college has had - see the Greek issue (a huge mistake) and the equivalencies.


I love Jack, and would do just about anything for that man considering how much he did for me. And it tears my heart out to see how the college has repaid him. But why would he continue to toil in obscurity? At least in obscurity to the general football alumni. We don't know how to help. Organize us. We want change. we don't know how to get it.
Lafalum

With regard to the greek system, the BOT and Weiss were covering their asses after that freshman died during a college wide party that spilled into the streets.
He was put into bed by a college employee, students were defecating on local lawns, and Weiss was no where to be seen. ( He was not even in Easton) He and the BOT tried to blame it on the greek system. He and the whole administration should have been fired then!!
BPard

LB10 - FoLF could be the vehicle. The alumni representative leaders should be working with the administration to craft the vision that will resonate with alumni. Then there has to be accountability for advancement towards that vision on all sides - alumni, administration, and student-athlete.

Has Fran or Jack communicated to Kim Spang that choosing to leave 4 football scholarships unfunded sends a message to 20+ young alumni each year that the College doesn't value or support them? Have they done the math to compute the lost future donations this message sends?

Shifting funds is a simple fix, but it means that FoLF will no longer be able to raise money for scholarships. There's plenty of other needs so they'll need to revise their marketing materials and pitch.

We're stuck in the past focused on scholarships instead of moving forward. Get out of our own way.

By the way, don't feel like young alumni need to wait for older alumni to organize you. Organize yourselves!

Finally, as a reminder that if you look at the spending on football across the patriot league, Lafayette's budget/spending is not the cause of the problem/losing in football where we spend 2nd most in league behind Fordham. In athletics overall - yes, we spend $9k less per student-athlete than the PL average (and second least per student-athlete). But not football.
BPard

Lafalum wrote:
With regard to the greek system, the BOT and Weiss were covering their asses after that freshman died during a college wide party that spilled into the streets.
He was put into bed by a college employee, students were defecating on local lawns, and Weiss was no where to be seen. ( He was not even in Easton) He and the BOT tried to blame it on the greek system. He and the whole administration should have been fired then!!
IAGGL started in 2011 after a previous trustee led working group. That tragic death in 2012 poured gasoline on the fire, but it wasn't the cause.

The recent turnaround in Greek Life is an example of what happens when students, alumni, and the administration are willing to work together.

Athletics can do the same.
BPard

flyfisher wrote:
fly wrote:
And I am banking they don't want to use endowment money for athletics. Not sure I would either.
bpard wrote:
Fly-on endowments, the football HC position is endowed. So yes, they are spending endowment on football.


That's nice they cover 1 position. Wow.
More is spent from endowment on football (see scholarships, which come from endowment) than just the HC endowment - which was made possible through the generosity of alumni. I'm just highlighting one prominent example.

Lafayette is an endowment dependent institution. of course we spend from endowment on athletics in general - and football specifically. I'm not sure why you thought otherwise.
LeopardBall10

BPard wrote:
LB10 - FoLF could be the vehicle. The alumni representative leaders should be working with the administration to craft the vision that will resonate with alumni. Then there has to be accountability for advancement towards that vision on all sides - alumni, administration, and student-athlete.

Has Fran or Jack communicated to Kim Spang that choosing to leave 4 football scholarships unfunded sends a message to 20+ young alumni each year that the College doesn't value or support them? Have they done the math to compute the lost future donations this message sends?

Shifting funds is a simple fix, but it means that FoLF will no longer be able to raise money for scholarships. There's plenty of other needs so they'll need to revise their marketing materials and pitch.

We're stuck in the past focused on scholarships instead of moving forward. Get out of our own way.

By the way, don't feel like young alumni need to wait for older alumni to organize you. Organize yourselves!

Finally, as a reminder that if you look at the spending on football across the patriot league, Lafayette's budget/spending is not the cause of the problem/losing in football where we spend 2nd most in league behind Fordham. In athletics overall - yes, we spend $9k less per student-athlete than the PL average (and second least per student-athlete). But not football.


Unfortunately I think you are missing my point. In an ideal world you are exactly right about FOF working with the administration towards a common goal. But what do we as alumni (and I mean all alumni) do when the administration and head coach who sit on the FOF committee have differing goals?

I am way past the scholarships, budget, etc. I know other institutions fight similar battles for funds at smaller schools with D1 sports. And i know just how much FOF helps the team and players by providing what they do. This isn't about shifting funds. This is about the direction of the program, and on a larger scale, the department. As an alumni this program does not stand for anything that the alumni agree with, young or old. So, how about we all come together and do something about it. That is what I have been trying to say. I am not waiting for the older alumni to organize. I am asking, and have been asking, and will keep asking for any actual avenue we have to enact change. I was hoping it was FOF, but the committee list and the Haddad's response prove to me that that is not a viable option at this point.
edge29

ed65 wrote:
edge29 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
 Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.


Really?  Aside from one phone call from a fball alum asking for money to fund those missing schollies, I would never know they raise hell. I don't know much about it but it seems as though FOLF is made up of a few well connected alum.  That's a shame and maybe part of the reason why alum are not as influential as we could be.

Think on the number of alum who played at Fisher over the years.  I keep in contact with about 15 of the guys I played with and NOT ONE of them ever mentioned FOLF or helping the program succeed.

Btw 65, you mentioned leaving the Army game early. Are you the kind gentleman who gave us your seat backs in the end zone section ?


29: with respect, I suggest you call Jack Bourger some time.  He is the long time head of FOF and LC would not have football program without him.  I have great respect for Jack, and see him at games.  He is very willing to discuss football with you, and he has lots of contact with Byerly and other trustees.  He has made the case for football over and over again through the years.  And FOF has dinged the college big time over how the program is financed (or isn't financed as the case may be).  He has spent loads of his own money on the program.  He is the ultimate insider.  I stopped criticizing Frank several years ago after calling Jack and learning the Frank would get four years of scholies to see what he could do.  But the fallout over Weiss' lowering the equivalencies buried the program in the deep hole from which it has not recovered.  Weiss had the worst judgment of any Pres the college has had - see the Greek issue (a huge mistake) and the equivalencies.


In no way was I disrespecting the contribution Bourger has made to the program.  I'm just simply stating that most of the LC fball alum have no clue who they are or what they do.  Shouldn't that be a concern of the committee?
BPard

LeopardBall10 wrote:
But what do we as alumni (and I mean all alumni) do when the administration and head coach who sit on the FOF committee have differing goals?

I was hoping it was FOF, but the committee list and the Haddad's response prove to me that that is not a viable option at this point.

I'm not convinced that they do have different goals - but even if that is the case, alumni representatives should work with them to get on the same page! And if the admin can't or won't get on the same page as alumni - go up the chain to find out why, both in Campus Life and in Development. Your reps need to be empowered to make and communicate changes to alumni perspective to get on the same page.

A single comment on goleopards does not a movement make. If there is untapped potential and support from alumni, you need to show that to the administration!

The message from Haddad shows that people aren't receiving the message that you're trying to send (I think). You're not asking for alumni to be involved in the evaluation of coaches or athletes. You're asking for clear expectations and accountability when those expectations are not met. This is fair when you're giving your time, treasure, or both.

I hear a lot about building the brand. Is our brand that of lovable loser leopards?
LeopardBall10

BPard wrote:
The message from Haddad shows that people aren't receiving the message that you're trying to send (I think). You're not asking for alumni to be involved in the evaluation of coaches or athletes. You're asking for clear expectations and accountability when those expectations are not met. This is fair when you're giving your time, treasure, or both.

I hear a lot about building the brand. Is our brand that of lovable loser leopards?


Yes, this is exactly what I am trying to communicate. So, at this point I guess it's time to reach out to the FOF committee members. See if any of them are brave/passionate/pissed off enough to start this movement of accountability.
flyfisher

LeopardBall10 wrote:
ed65 wrote:

29: with respect, I suggest you call Jack Bourger some time.  He is the long time head of FOF and LC would not have football program without him.  I have great respect for Jack, and see him at games.  He is very willing to discuss football with you, and he has lots of contact with Byerly and other trustees.  He has made the case for football over and over again through the years.  And FOF has dinged the college big time over how the program is financed (or isn't financed as the case may be).  He has spent loads of his own money on the program.  He is the ultimate insider.  I stopped criticizing Frank several years ago after calling Jack and learning the Frank would get four years of scholies to see what he could do.  But the fallout over Weiss' lowering the equivalencies buried the program in the deep hole from which it has not recovered.  Weiss had the worst judgment of any Pres the college has had - see the Greek issue (a huge mistake) and the equivalencies.


I love Jack, and would do just about anything for that man considering how much he did for me. And it tears my heart out to see how the college has repaid him. But why would he continue to toil in obscurity? At least in obscurity to the general football alumni. We don't know how to help. Organize us. We want change. we don't know how to get it.


I know Jack as well. One of the best people I have ever met. easy to see why he is/was so successful. But I also don't understand why the College treats him the way they do. I would include him and get him involved. I know he was the man out front and went against the BOT when they considered D3 football. Without jack and a few others we would be D3 right now. Personally I don't know how he does it. he pours his heart and his wallet into that program. he has to believe that long term his vision will win out but right now he has to be frustrated. I think one day someone will come along and realize what LC could be. But I fear Jack may not live to see it.
flyfisher

BPard wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
With regard to the greek system, the BOT and Weiss were covering their asses after that freshman died during a college wide party that spilled into the streets.
He was put into bed by a college employee, students were defecating on local lawns, and Weiss was no where to be seen. ( He was not even in Easton) He and the BOT tried to blame it on the greek system. He and the whole administration should have been fired then!!
IAGGL started in 2011 after a previous trustee led working group. That tragic death in 2012 poured gasoline on the fire, but it wasn't the cause.

The recent turnaround in Greek Life is an example of what happens when students, alumni, and the administration are willing to work together.

Athletics can do the same.


The turnaround in Greek life is extremely small. Its fractionally better but hard to call it a turnaround yet. One new frat.
flyfisher

LeopardBall10 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.


I agree with edge on this one. If they are raising hell I sure don't know about it. Knowing Jack and some of the other men I guess I should expect it though.

But, why not have a more coordinated campaign? I get an email blast every week from FOLF telling me "All I Need To Know About Lafayette vs" and I get letters in the mail asking for donations and sponsorship. Why aren't we leveraging this relatively powerful group (they do fund a huuuge portion of the budget) to at least demand answers or gain some acknowledgment? I feel like this is a battle that LOFL would not want to fight alone.

-----------------------
Updated: Nevermind... I just checked the FOLF website. Check out the first few names listed on the FOLF comittee

Committee Members
Dr. Bruce E. McCutcheon, Director of Athletics
Mr. Frank A. Tavani, Head Football Coach
Mr. Joseph Giaimo, Executive Director Maroon Club  Athletic Development
Mr. Scott Morse, Director Athletic Communications & Promotions
Ms. Donna Holden, Coordinator of Football Events
Mr. John T. Bourger ’71, FoLF Chair Emeritus
Mr. Francis L. Mustaro ’72, FoLF Chair

So, FOLF is just a shill for the college too? Is there really no recourse we have left?! I also found it very intersting that at the bottom of the Comitte page on the FOLF website (http://community.lafayette.edu/friends-of-football/committee-members/) Murry Rosen left a well written comment about the state of the program. This is the FOLF response:

Mr. Rosen,
Thank you for your honest thoughts. As someone personally connected with the program, I wish I could explain why the football program at Lafayette is struggling, but as member of Friends of Lafayette Football, I make it a point not to venture where I do not belong. Although I played at Lafayette in the mid ‘70s, I possess neither the evaluative skills nor the desire to judge the coaches or the athletes. Friends of Lafayette Football exists to provide the Leopards with requisite resources and enhancements beyond what the college provides. We are here to build the brand through fellowship and fundraising. I thank you for caring and taking the time to comment on Lafayette Football something that we both obviously care about. I ask that you not lose hope. If you have the opportunity to attend one of our games, I would like to meet you. Lafayette is one of the places where college football began. We have a long and great storied tradition for the game here on The Hill.

Go ‘Pards!
Allen Haddad ’78, #75
Friends of Lafayette Football


Interesting post in two areas.

Look at the members of FOFL. Two people there have influence. Bruce is part of the problem and he has to march as he is told. Donna, wonderful person but a secretary. Giaimo isn't there any longer. They wont listen to Frank. Don't know Scott.

Allan's letter says two things to me. 1. we focus on our "long and storied tradition". Honor the past but live in the future. 2. Fellowship and Fundraising. Is that it?

Sorry if I am abrasive. Just frustrated.
ed65

flyfisher wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Edge: you may have a point about FOLF- they have been very outspoken from what I hear.  It is the nature of Jack Bougher to do that.  The Maroon Club is useless IMHO.  It is an arm of the college that is directed by the college.  Its job is to raise money not raise hell.


I agree with edge on this one. If they are raising hell I sure don't know about it. Knowing Jack and some of the other men I guess I should expect it though.

But, why not have a more coordinated campaign? I get an email blast every week from FOLF telling me "All I Need To Know About Lafayette vs" and I get letters in the mail asking for donations and sponsorship. Why aren't we leveraging this relatively powerful group (they do fund a huuuge portion of the budget) to at least demand answers or gain some acknowledgment? I feel like this is a battle that LOFL would not want to fight alone.

-----------------------
Updated: Nevermind... I just checked the FOLF website. Check out the first few names listed on the FOLF comittee

Committee Members
Dr. Bruce E. McCutcheon, Director of Athletics
Mr. Frank A. Tavani, Head Football Coach
Mr. Joseph Giaimo, Executive Director Maroon Club  Athletic Development
Mr. Scott Morse, Director Athletic Communications & Promotions
Ms. Donna Holden, Coordinator of Football Events
Mr. John T. Bourger ’71, FoLF Chair Emeritus
Mr. Francis L. Mustaro ’72, FoLF Chair

So, FOLF is just a shill for the college too? Is there really no recourse we have left?! I also found it very intersting that at the bottom of the Comitte page on the FOLF website (http://community.lafayette.edu/friends-of-football/committee-members/) Murry Rosen left a well written comment about the state of the program. This is the FOLF response:

Mr. Rosen,
Thank you for your honest thoughts. As someone personally connected with the program, I wish I could explain why the football program at Lafayette is struggling, but as member of Friends of Lafayette Football, I make it a point not to venture where I do not belong. Although I played at Lafayette in the mid ‘70s, I possess neither the evaluative skills nor the desire to judge the coaches or the athletes. Friends of Lafayette Football exists to provide the Leopards with requisite resources and enhancements beyond what the college provides. We are here to build the brand through fellowship and fundraising. I thank you for caring and taking the time to comment on Lafayette Football something that we both obviously care about. I ask that you not lose hope. If you have the opportunity to attend one of our games, I would like to meet you. Lafayette is one of the places where college football began. We have a long and great storied tradition for the game here on The Hill.

Go ‘Pards!
Allen Haddad ’78, #75
Friends of Lafayette Football


Interesting post in two areas.

Look at the members of FOFL. Two people there have influence. Bruce is part of the problem and he has to march as he is told. Donna, wonderful person but a secretary. Giaimo isn't there any longer. They wont listen to Frank. Don't know Scott.

Allan's letter says two things to me. 1. we focus on our "long and storied tradition". Honor the past but live in the future. 2. Fellowship and Fundraising. Is that it?

Fran Mustaro is a very good guy, and long time supporter of LC Football.  He would be very interested in working with a group to see how to improve.  He is close to FT but he wants to win.  

Sorry if I am abrasive. Just frustrated.
LeopardBall10

Well, I noticed today that there is a new Director of the Maroon club on the website. I guess the conspiracy theorist in me was wondering if that job was being kept warm for Frank after the season. So would Frank take the Associate Director position?  Rolling Eyes

I wanted to put a list together of possible candidates available after this season, but I don't actually think a national search would ensue if a change is made so I won't waste my time.

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