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After a disappointing regular season, the Lady Leopards finished strong in the league tournament and played Lehigh even for 38 minutes. A few people acknowledged that Lehigh was clearly the best team in the league this year. We graduate 5 seniors and three starters (I believe) which tells me not to expect much improvement in our record next year. Unless there is more surprises on this team that we are not aware of. This was not suppose to be a re-building year. So where do we go from here?
What bothers me, carney2 pointed out this out, what did our coaches and players learn in the tournament that they somehow could not do the previous four months? It seems if played with the regular season with the same intensity as the tournament, maybe we could have been 7-7 or 8-6 in league play. Possibly a number 2 seed instead of scraping the bottom....again. 10 league losses in a row including a home loss to Colgate? Maybe our expectations were too high for this team?
Lafalum
I know I'm going to be villified for this but here goes. I'm not sure our athletes have understood what it takes to win at this level consistantly. I am not pointing at basketball in particular. Each of our teams this year have had their moments, the women's basketball team in the tournament.
We have had three winning teams this year so far and each couldn't put it together when they needed to.
Is it an indifference to their efforts by the campus? ( WE had a great turnout for the the women's championship...I have to believe that helped). Yes if they win they will come, but in the meantime we need , coaches and an athletic dept administration that knows how to raise and keep the support for these athletes, and athletes that are willing to put the extra sweat in when no one is looking. We have some athletes that clearly do that but not enough. Too many that are willing to let someone else do it!
The Maroon
Re: End of Season Wrap-up
TheTruth wrote:
After a disappointing regular season, the Lady Leopards finished strong in the league tournament and played Lehigh even for 38 minutes. A few people acknowledged that Lehigh was clearly the best team in the league this year. We graduate 5 seniors and three starters (I believe) which tells me not to expect much improvement in our record next year. Unless there is more surprises on this team that we are not aware of. This was not suppose to be a re-building year. So where do we go from here?
What bothers me, carney2 pointed out this out, what did our coaches and players learn in the tournament that they somehow could not do the previous four months? It seems if played with the regular season with the same intensity as the tournament, maybe we could have been 7-7 or 8-6 in league play. Possibly a number 2 seed instead of scraping the bottom....again. 10 league losses in a row including a home loss to Colgate? Maybe our expectations were too high for this team?
I'll be further vilified for this because the story of the league tournament is such a good one but this season was a disappointment and I, personally, don't think Tammy should be kept. I realize the mantra of every losing team is "all that matters is the Patriot League tournament" but some of us would like to see a little more of everything during the regular season. Particularly if the talent was there---as the tournament proves it was.
7 of 8 of Tammy's season this team has underachieved....I'd be happy to hear anybody make a case otherwise. Actually I'll argue it underachieved all 8.
Is the cupboard bare now? No---but I still don' t know how we're gonna get the ball up the court. Wright, McGorry, Serowoky and Virgin aren't a bad base to start with. Throw in Smith and we should have the best frontcourt we've had in years. Jackson and Downey are the two that need to move to the next level next season. Maybe we have a good frosh guard coming in--that would be nice. As Xbo's stats pointed out clearly, we got better when we stopped shooting outside as much - but I don't want to see a bunch of packed zones next season.
Next year we'll have 3.5 years of scholarships...Is it unreasonable to expect 1 .500 season in 9 years?
TheTruth
To add to Lafalum's post, here's the standings for the President's Cup after the winter season: http://www.patriotleague.org/genrel/031709aad.html
I agree Maroon. I don't see this program going anywhere. It has been 9 years and it's time for a change.
I don't know what the College is looking to accomplish with our athletic program either. We are solidly in last place in the President's Cup so far. Obviously mediocrity is acceptable. the funny part is I've heard Art Rothkopf ask "why can't we compete for a President's Cup" Bucknell is there every year. We have as many resources as Bucknell yet we always finish 6th or 7th. Bucknell in the top 3.
Someone needs to look at why football, men's soccer and baseball seem to have had success while the other sports languish. Do these sports have better alumni support? Is the school not funding the other sports properly?
seenalot
No villification on either of the prior points. Team had a nice two game run at the end, and maybe they found out how to play to their talent - but over the past 7+ years Tammy's program has simply not gotten it done or shown consistent improvement, and given sr. graduations next year does not look better.
Its not likely to happen (not sure what Bruce's role is in that decision) but it should. What happened to the idea that we should compete for PL title at least once during a player's time at LC.
carney2
I will make three points and then retire to the bar with a bourbon whilst I wait for Bruce et al. to do absolutely nothing:
1. Our recruiting is atrocious. The league is loaded with underclass talent, while our freshmen and sophomores, with the exception of Wright, are pretty average. We have no shooters and, as some seem to point out, our ball handling has the light and desirable touch of a blacksmith.
2. Game day decisions are not the best. We have complained frequently about rotations and the distribution of playing time. That weave and heave offense (thanks, KP) is a total mystery, especially when the "heave" has to come from someone who just cannot shoot (remember, we have no shooters).
3 Speaking of vilification, here is an item that I posted after the tournament final and for which I was vilified because of my timing. It is deserving of an airing, and I therefore throw it out there again - with some additions:
Why does the College community accept such mediocrity? And we do accept it. There is no accountability in the athletic department and, quite frankly, I cannot remember a time that it ever existed. Winning - no, let me rephrase that - excellence is a matter of luck and timing, and is usually a fleeting and unsustainable experience. You cannot point to a single sport where this has not been true. I will simply quote something that I heard once about Williams College and leave it at that: "If we accept mediocrity in anything, we accept mediocrity in everything."
Franks Tanks
carney2 wrote:
I will make three points and then retire to the bar with a bourbon whilst I wait for Bruce et al. to do absolutely nothing:
1. Our recruiting is atrocious. The league is loaded with underclass talent, while our freshmen and sophomores, with the exception of Wright, are pretty average. We have no shooters and, as some seem to point out, our ball handling has the light and desirable touch of a blacksmith.
2. Game day decisions are not the best. We have complained frequently about rotations and the distribution of playing time. That weave and heave offense (thanks, KP) is a total mystery, especially when the "heave" has to come from someone who just cannot shoot (remember, we have no shooters).
3 Speaking of vilification, here is an item that I posted after the tournament final and for which I was vilified because of my timing. It is deserving of an airing, and I therefore throw it out there again - with some additions:
Why does the College community accept such mediocrity? And we do accept it. There is no accountability in the athletic department and, quite frankly, I cannot remember a time that it ever existed. Winning - no, let me rephrase that - excellence is a matter of luck and timing, and is usually a fleeting and unsustainable experience. You cannot point to a single sport where this has not been true. I will simply quote something that I heard once about Williams College and leave it at that: "If we accept mediocrity in anything, we accept mediocrity in everything."
Carney you are 100% correct. I actaully think our athletic department strives for medocrity, no only just accepts it.
This reminds me of the infamous article on Bill Russo upon hos retirement. In it Russo states that he was told upon his hiring to not win so much as to embarress the school. We are saddled with out of touch losers in positions of power.
Lafalum
Franks Tanks wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Why does the College community accept such mediocrity? And we do accept it. There is no accountability in the athletic department and, quite frankly, I cannot remember a time that it ever existed. Winning - no, let me rephrase that - excellence is a matter of luck and timing, and is usually a fleeting and unsustainable experience. You cannot point to a single sport where this has not been true. I will simply quote something that I heard once about Williams College and leave it at that: "If we accept mediocrity in anything, we accept mediocrity in everything."
Carney you are 100% correct. I actaully think our athletic department strives for medocrity, no only just accepts it.
This reminds me of the infamous article on Bill Russo upon hos retirement. In it Russo states that he was told upon his hiring to not win so much as to embarress the school. We are saddled with out of touch losers in positions of power.
I had not seen that quote by Russo!! The acceptance of mediocrity starts with the BOT. I cannot think of one member of that Board that stands out for his or her leadership in their chosen field.
The administration is filled with followers and is constantly looking around their back for fear they'll be fired for not towing the party line.
The athletic adiministration has NEVER, NEVER had as its primary goal winning. I am quite frankly tired of the articles about some athlete's excel summer program at their local bank or their spring semester in Botswana. I want to win!!
Our approach is getting recruits who are more interested in that spring in Botswana than being part of a team that has as its mission to win that PL championship or more!!!
I am convinced that also gets us recruits who like to dabble in everything and excel in nothing!!
Franks Tanks
Lafalum wrote:
Franks Tanks wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Why does the College community accept such mediocrity? And we do accept it. There is no accountability in the athletic department and, quite frankly, I cannot remember a time that it ever existed. Winning - no, let me rephrase that - excellence is a matter of luck and timing, and is usually a fleeting and unsustainable experience. You cannot point to a single sport where this has not been true. I will simply quote something that I heard once about Williams College and leave it at that: "If we accept mediocrity in anything, we accept mediocrity in everything."
Carney you are 100% correct. I actaully think our athletic department strives for medocrity, no only just accepts it.
This reminds me of the infamous article on Bill Russo upon hos retirement. In it Russo states that he was told upon his hiring to not win so much as to embarress the school. We are saddled with out of touch losers in positions of power.
I had not seen that quote by Russo!! The acceptance of mediocrity starts with the BOT. I cannot think of one member of that Board that stands out for his or her leadership in their chosen field.
The administration is filled with followers and is constantly looking around their back for fear they'll be fired for not towing the party line.
The athletic adiministration has NEVER, NEVER had as its primary goal winning. I am quite frankly tired of the articles about some athlete's excel summer program at their local bank or their spring semester in Botswana. I want to win!!
Our approach is getting recruits who are more interested in that spring in Botswana than being part of a team that has as its mission to win that PL championship or more!!!
I am convinced that also gets us recruits who like to dabble in everything and excel in nothing!!
I wish I could find the artcile. It was in the express times the day of the Lehigh game in 1999-- Russo's last game.
The Maroon
I believe the Russo quote has been reported in the newspapers. It certainly is pretty well known.
Regarding the culture of mediocrity...
I remember a conversation with professor DC Jackson (who I enjoyed immensely) after we got beat by Princeton in basketball. HE was "embarassed" it was as close as it was (it wasn't close...but the guy knew nothing about basketball). He said if we beat Princeton it means we are spending way too many of our resources on sports because Princeton is a much larger school. That was how he thought it should work--the bigger the school, the better the athletic program should be. Hence...we were small...We should almost never win.
I remember future provost June Schlueter (who I despised) saying she wanted it mandated that every student go abroad at least one interim period. When someone pointed out that our winter sports teams couldn't do that she asked "what are we here for? sports?!"
I remember being manager of the men's basketball team and telling a sociology professor I was going to miss class for a game...He couldn't undertand the difference between "manager" and "coach"...He really thought I was the coach...At least he only passed through Lafayette.
So yeah....there's some whack faculty at the school. There are some supporters though---the many faculty advisors come to mind.
OK...
I'll go to bat for the last two classes. I'll repeat the names I'm highest on....Virgin, Wright, Serowoky, McGorry...I'd take those four any day. And four better-than-average players in 2 classes is solid. Are they the best freshman/sophomore classes in the league? Probably not---but they are a big step up from what we used to have. But the void at guard is hard to overlook.
Hey...Maybe Downey, Jackson, Jenkins, Leone are going to step up next year and I will have mud in my eye...Wouldn't be the first time. Or maybe we have a phenom PG coming in. I just don't see how we can win many games next season without some VERY pleasant surprises at guard next year.
I know it's fodder for another thread, but the men's Lacrosse team hasn't had a winning season since 1984. I was big on blaming coach Lawson as a student...but obviously the problem is bigger than him.
Lafalum
Jeez I have to agree with you. We are perhaps in the third best conference in the country for men's lacrosse its been pretty dismal for us. I was hoping for some out of conference wins but we can't seem to pull it together.
So far the only winning teams this year are football, soccer, and field hockey. And all three couldn't do it to advance to a PL championship. I think football needs another year, soccer has the bodies and could do it next year, FH I'm feeling better about but maybe one more year, men's basketball I don't see it on the horizon, women's bball we are missing a lot of pieces, baseball hasn't shown that potential yet this year, women's lacrosse is year's away, softball is 1-9 so far, women's soccer not close, volleyball is getting better but I don't see us knocking off the best team in the league...I don't follow track,tennis, or fencing.
This is probably the wrong thread for all of the above, but I think women's bball demonstrates where we are athletically. I don't think Tammy is that good a coach. She will not deliver a PL championship ever. Can we attract a better coach??Thank God for scholarships or we'd have no chance.
carney2
You're right, wrong forum - but we've started, so let's keep going.
I'm pretty sure that I don't have the right questions, and I'm certain that I have none of the answers, but I throw this out there: As one of the smallest schools in the country offering D-I sports, should we be offering 22 (my count - please correct if wrong) varsity sports? Many of these are "Who cares, other than the athletes and their families." Are we spread too thin? Are we throwing too many darts at too many boards to have any chance at all? In D-I is this really a student activity the way college athletics began 100 years ago? If not, why do we bother with the low/no interest sports? Why recruit and "hire" kids for these activities (face it that's what you do at the D-I level - even in tiddly-winks) when the "hirelings" account for such a high percentage of the student body? Both economically and with other college resources, can we afford all of this? Should we focus on the activities that really give us some bang for our buck (visibility and name recognition; bonding with alumni and the community; a favorable image at fund raising time; school spirit, pride, etc.)?
At a school like Lafayette, someone has to start thinking outside the box. Same old, same old is not going to work much longer. The landscape is changing and some school needs to be a leader. It's never been Lafayette in the past, but why not now?
Hey Bruce, hey Dan, get some balls! And, get us out of this freakin' rut!
Lafalum
I believe the minimum for D1 is 16. So what do you cut?? I believe it's not so much savings but attention and emphasis. You will eliminate coaches but that should allow you to pay and attract better coaches and assistant coaches, provide a better infrastrucure, spend more money on recruiting. All this will be for nil unless you make it mission number one to win, (without compromising your academic intergrity). All the remaining sports should be scholarships and the sports dropped should be converted to club status.
carney2
Lafalum wrote:
I believe the minimum for D1 is 16. So what do you cut?? I believe it's not so much savings but attention and emphasis. You will eliminate coaches but that should allow you to pay and attract better coaches and assistant coaches, provide a better infrastrucure, spend more money on recruiting. All this will be for nil unless you make it mission number one to win, (without compromising your academic intergrity). All the remaining sports should be scholarships and the sports dropped should be converted to club status.
I have no reason to doubt you regarding the 16 requirement for D-I. My quick and dirty count gives me only 14 at American, however. I'm betting it's my counting and not your information.
I am not necessarily advocating the reduction of varsity sports offerings at Lafayette. It is merely a half baked idea to state that someone needs to begin thinking outside the box. Sitting around and waiting for the Ivy League to lead us out of the athletic wilderness is a plan whose time has passed - if, in fact, it ever was a viable plan at all. "Who speaks for Lafayette?"
My underlying statement/complaint/plea is that I am totally dissatisfied with the athletic leadership at our alma mater. These people - all of them, and all the way up and down the athletic food chain - need to start fogging a mirror and proving that their pay checks are not being turned over to cardboard cutouts. Fordham has forced everyone's hand in the area of football and it is time for Lafayette to show some backbone. "Me too" is no longer acceptable from this bunch.
Pard Promise
The minimum to compete at D-I is 14. The University of Texas offers 17 varsity sports.
I could be wrong, but I think American has 16 since, indoor and outdoor track count as separate sports. At most schools, track accounts for six sports with men's and women's cross country and men's and women's indoor and men's and women's outdoor track.
bison137
Pard Promise wrote:
The minimum to compete at D-I is 14. The University of Texas offers 17 varsity sports.
I could be wrong, but I think American has 16 since, indoor and outdoor track count as separate sports. At most schools, track accounts for six sports with men's and women's cross country and men's and women's indoor and men's and women's outdoor track.
1. Yes, the minimum is 14 in D1 if you are FCS in football or have no football. It is 16 for FBS.
2. Correct, American has 16 sports - 15 for PL purposes plus wrestling.
