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I just got an email from the alumni president of our fraternity with an explanation of the frat situation. This is rubbish!! The college is judging frats on a system called compass. It takes into account several factors. Despite the fact that our house is close to or at the all college average in GPA and above the all male average we get 0 out 40 points which puts us on the marginal catagory.
The biggest outrage is that the all male average is 25-40 points below women. WHAT's going on here??? If it were the reverse we'd have a government investigation. This bloated overpaid administration can't take the time to do some serious analysis tells me there is an agenda a work.
Franks Tanks
Re: Faternities
Lafalum wrote:
I just got an email from the alumni president of our fraternity with an explanation of the frat situation. This is rubbish!! The college is judging frats on a system called compass. It takes into account several factors. Despite the fact that our house is close to or at the all college average in GPA and above the all male average we get 0 out 40 points which puts us on the marginal catagory.
The biggest outrage is that the all male average is 25-40 points below women. WHAT's going on here??? If it were the reverse we'd have a government investigation. This bloated overpaid administration can't take the time to do some serious analysis tells me there is an agenda a work.
The student conduct committee has recommneded that the BOT should revoke Phi Gamme Delta's charter because a few guys were caught drinking beer on the 3rd floor of the house (the horror). Fiji is probably gone and I suspect the college will do everything possible to rid itself of the remaining frats in the next 10-15 years. Frats have a long history at Lafayette and have been essential to the Lafayette culture, the current Pres and BOT wants to simply destroy everything.
TheTruth
Franks Tanks: don't forget Fiji is supposed to be dry....this was mandated by the national. I don't think 3 guys drinking beer in the fraternity warrants kicking them off campus even if it is against the franternites rules. I'd be interested in hearing if there were other violations over the past year or so to warrant this action. there must be more to the story...I hope. I do know there is an anti-fraternity sentiment in the faculty and now the administration.
Lafalum: did they explain what goes into this "compass" rating system? It must be something new. It's hard for me to believe that a fraternity would score "0" points if the process was properly explained and communicated.
Lafalum
It is a whole list of things too long to post here but I understand that D'Orio ( the asst dean in charge of Housing) gave the greeks one week to review the scoring system in March. In our case the undergrad responsible for submitting the report never submitted it and we were scored 0. The school made no effort to contact our alumni board and to this day refused to meet with us and any alumni representative of the greek system. IF filled out we might have been at least satisfactory and maybe even excellent.
But it all points to slopiness in the Dean's office which is more agenda driven than with any desire to find out the truth. Unfortunately true in many aspects of student life management by this admistration and BOT.
Franks Tanks
TheTruth wrote:
Franks Tanks: don't forget Fiji is supposed to be dry....this was mandated by the national. I don't think 3 guys drinking beer in the fraternity warrants kicking them off campus even if it is against the franternites rules. I'd be interested in hearing if there were other violations over the past year or so to warrant this action. there must be more to the story...I hope. I do know there is an anti-fraternity sentiment in the faculty and now the administration.
Lafalum: did they explain what goes into this "compass" rating system? It must be something new. It's hard for me to believe that a fraternity would score "0" points if the process was properly explained and communicated.
Sure Fiji is dry but the incident was not a fraternity sponsored event. If a few 21 year old guys who live in the house are drinking beer, without the consent or sponsorship from the fraternity, what is the issue. I believe the same issue happened twice and these are the only recent issues. Yes Fiji national should be brough in to reprimand, but the only rule broken here was a national frat rule.
TheTruth
So it's the argument that if something bad happens, then it's individuals that did it. If something good happens, it's about brotherhood and togethernes.
Would the Fiji national be willing to reprimand and discipline these 3 individuals? And since it has happened on two other occasions, it's considered trend. So shouldn't the entire house suffer for not abiding by the rules?
I'm playing devil's advocate Frank's Tanks. I do believe the rules are set up for the fraternities to fail. I do believe the faculty and now administration wants to get rid of fraternities. I just wish Weiss and the BOT would have the guts to come out and make the decision instead of these BS tactics.
In Lafalum's case, if the undergrads did not submit a plan, all Annette had to do is send an e-mail to the alumni representative and say, "the undergraduates of XYZ fraternity did not submit the necessary report and will recieve a zero and rated as "marginal". Please contact me at your earliest convenience so we can discuss." In fact, Annette can use what I jsut wrote if she likes.
Communication, communication, communication. it really is this simple.
Franks Tanks
TheTruth wrote:
So it's the argument that if something bad happens, then it's individuals that did it. If something good happens, it's about brotherhood and togethernes.
Would the Fiji national be willing to reprimand and discipline these 3 individuals? And since it has happened on two other occasions, it's considered trend. So shouldn't the entire house suffer for not abiding by the rules?
I'm playing devil's advocate Frank's Tanks. I do believe the rules are set up for the fraternities to fail. I do believe the faculty and now administration wants to get rid of fraternities. I just wish Weiss and the BOT would have the guts to come out and make the decision instead of these BS tactics.
In Lafalum's case, if the undergrads did not submit a plan, all Annette had to do is send an e-mail to the alumni representative and say, "the undergraduates of XYZ fraternity did not submit the necessary report and will recieve a zero and rated as "marginal". Please contact me at your earliest convenience so we can discuss." In fact, Annette can use what I jsut wrote if she likes.
Communication, communication, communication. it really is this simple.
Truth-- I get what you are saying but there is no way a fraternity can police a zero tolerance policy on alcohol. As 21 yo is allowed to drink beer in his dorm room but not his frat room-- a bit strange and not really plausible to expect. Also I believe Fiji national should reprimand the frat if they broke national policy, not the individuals. Fiji broke a national policy and should then take their medicine from national, but IMO no schools rules were broken as a small group of men who were of age were having a few beers in their rooms/common area. If that is criteria for ending a 125 year relationship then so be it, but dont tell me that it makes sense. I lot of Fiji alum do very well and were involved in athletics. I know of a few recent alums who have made handsome contributions to the FB program and they also care about Fiji a great deal. I would suspect they would think twice about giving to the school again, even if it does help the FB team.
So overall yes I believe Fiji should be punished in some manner, but kicking them off campus is quite a drastic move for a very minor "crime." However, it is clear the school has an agenda and every frat will be gone in 10-15 years. It's sad but the admin is hell bent on ruining some of the best aspects of Lafayette, and some factors that make it unique. Also many alums are simply fed-up with the way important institutiuons have been treated (their frat or old team for example) and will not pony up bucks when Weiss comes calling.
The Maroon
I can't remember why, but I found myself doing surveys of alumni at some point in school. One of the questions was what was enjoyed most about the "Lafayette Experience" and the overwhelming majority of responses were things related to being in a fraternity. I know some people that skip their class reunions but never miss a fraternity reunion. I was independant and some could even argue "anti Greek" as a student---but there was no getting around the loyalty the alums felt toward the school.
I have to believe this will have a long-term negative affect on giving.
TheTruth
Franks tank: I agree this is a pretty minor infraction to kick a fraternity off campus. I remember the days when you could walk across campus with a cup of beer and wave hello to security. I think that level of drinking was dangerous and out of control, what's going on now is just as bad.
I have seen and experienced first hand, colleges that have embraced the Greek system and made it an asset to the campus culture. you still have issues (and you always will with 18-22 year olds) but it is under control and the rules are spelled out.
maroon: You won't see it in the overall dollar amounts because we have so many alumni and parents capable and willing to write big checks to the school. Where you see it is in the number of donors to the College. It has continually dropped. More importanlty, this issue with fraternities affects the classes in the late 70's to mid 90's. These classes are nearing their peak earning years with the older classes finishing with sending their kids to college. There is a huge disconnect with this era of alumni that the college, if it continues operating with this veil of secrecy, will not reach. I had a long conversation with an alumni who graduated in 1980. He refuses to give to the College because he doesn't recognize Lafayette anymore. It is an issue.
Lafalum
TheTruth wrote:
this issue with fraternities affects the classes in the late 70's to mid 90's. These classes are nearing their peak earning years with the older classes finishing with sending their kids to college. There is a huge disconnect with this era of alumni that the college, if it continues operating with this veil of secrecy, will not reach. I had a long conversation with an alumni who graduated in 1980. He refuses to give to the College because he doesn't recognize Lafayette anymore. It is an issue.
Believe me it is an issue for the 50's and 60's too. I do not trust the school to take my estate issues seriously. We are about to have one of the largest transfers of generational wealth in history and between the arrogance of the faculty, the chicanery of the administration and the cluelessness of the BOT, Lafayette will be scrambling and failing to raise the money it will need in the next ten years. There is NO WAY IN HELL there could be a successful 400 mio dollar campaign in the next 5 years!!
It really saddens me because I thought Weis would lead us to better things but he is a willing stooge to a dufuss Board and a selfish faculty.
Franks Tanks
Lafalum wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
this issue with fraternities affects the classes in the late 70's to mid 90's. These classes are nearing their peak earning years with the older classes finishing with sending their kids to college. There is a huge disconnect with this era of alumni that the college, if it continues operating with this veil of secrecy, will not reach. I had a long conversation with an alumni who graduated in 1980. He refuses to give to the College because he doesn't recognize Lafayette anymore. It is an issue.
Believe me it is an issue for the 50's and 60's too. I do not trust the school to take my estate issues seriously. We are about to have one of the largest transfers of generational wealth in history and between the arrogance of the faculty, the chicanery of the administration and the cluelessness of the BOT, Lafayette will be scrambling and failing to raise the money it will need in the next ten years. There is NO WAY IN HELL there could be a successful 400 mio dollar campaign in the next 5 years!!
It really saddens me because I thought Weis would lead us to better things but he is a willing stooge to a dufuss Board and a selfish faculty.
Where the hell is my generational wealth transfer!
LC Fan
On The Other Hand
I read these rants and think to myself to what do Lafayette alums want the College to aspire? Do they simply want Lafayette to be another ordinary school in a competitive sea of ordinary institutions? Is it good enough for our alums to have winning sports teams but losing records for graduate school admissions and job placement? Is it good enough for Lafayette to turn out grads who spend four years sitting on a frat couch trying to figure out how to sneak a beer?
The world has changed. It is more competitive on every level and the atmosphere at Lafayette has to change as well. I want my child to grow during his four years and the best way to do that is for him to be exposed to all that the school can offer. If that means that he's forced off that couch and must get involved in the college community so be it. That's why I'm spending $200,000 on his education.
Time for the ranters on this board to get off their couches, get away from their keyboard, and help the College move forward rather than back to the stone age when they went to school.
Franks Tanks
Re: On The Other Hand
LC Fan wrote:
I read these rants and think to myself to what do Lafayette alums want the College to aspire? Do they simply want Lafayette to be another ordinary school in a competitive sea of ordinary institutions? Is it good enough for our alums to have winning sports teams but losing records for graduate school admissions and job placement? Is it good enough for Lafayette to turn out grads who spend four years sitting on a frat couch trying to figure out how to sneak a beer?
The world has changed. It is more competitive on every level and the atmosphere at Lafayette has to change as well. I want my child to grow during his four years and the best way to do that is for him to be exposed to all that the school can offer. If that means that he's forced off that couch and must get involved in the college community so be it. That's why I'm spending $200,000 on his education.
Time for the ranters on this board to get off their couches, get away from their keyboard, and help the College move forward rather than back to the stone age when they went to school.
I respectfully disagree. What makes Lafayette special is what we are losing right now. Schools like Lafayette, Lehigh, Bucknell, Colgate, Dartmouth and perhaps a few others are unique because they are places where smart and motivated kids can go and still have a social life. These school have always attracted the type of kids who hit the books, but are also very social and athletic. This is precisley the Lafayette niche and it is being taken away. Lafayette was ANYTHING but ordinary, but the admin is making it more like other Liberal arts school and placing us firmly with the pack. I guess you would prefer D-III athletics like most LAC's?
You already have plenty of options for LAC full of nerds who never leave the Library, or want to have global warming protests all day. Schools like Swarthmore, Haverford, Grinell, Carelton, Bowdin, Bates, Colby and many other already fill that niche quite well. Why cant we maintain ours?
The fact is that Lafayette (and other PL schools) are extraordinary for what they are today. They produce smart, motivated, educated graduates that also have social and leadership skills. These are precisely the type of people who are most successful in life. If we follow the admin's plan (and the one you seem to favor) we will just fall in line with the other LAC out there and offer nothing different. A Lafayette students will be the same as a Swarthmore student and that is just not desirable for many alums.
If you want to wear sandals and read poerty and drink coffee-- and desire to be an English prof go to Swarthmore.
If you want to study hard and play hard -- and desire to be a business leader, or attorney, or are motivated by money go to Lafayette. We have (had) our niche and it was a superb one. That is being destroyed in favor of another Swarthmore light.
The change you seem to advocate will actually have the exact conesequences you fear IMO. If Lafayette becomes more like other LAC's we will lose because its all the same, we no longer offer something different.
Lafalum
Couldn't agree more. I have never hired or even wanted to hire a graduate of Swathmore, Williams, Haverford et al.. And all things being equal I hired athletes before I hired a kid who did nothing but occupy a seat in the library for four years. Higher education and Lafayette is becoming lazy. The AVERAGE grade is now 3.2, you need only 4 courses a semester to graduate, the faculty want to teach only 2 courses a semester, and have a whole year off every 7 years and get paid and average of 95,000 dollars a year!!!
It is the only industry that is becoming less efficient. We have empty unused buildings during the summer and our ratio of adiministrators to students is among the highest in PL if not the nation!!
They want more money each year from alumni and then ignore their desires and don't want to listen to them. The leadership on the BOT has not turned over in 15 maybe 20 years. They take your money and use it for other puposes.
Last point, do you really in your heart believe that your son/daughter gets a better academic experience at Lafayette than they would at the 'honors" programs of Penn State, Maryland, UNC, Michigan. All of which even for out of state students is cheaper!! By their very size they have a diversity of courses we can't match.
The difference at Lafayette is they can join a frat, a sorority, be a member of a Div 1 team, a club team,have a variety of simultaneous leadership experiences, or whatever. The academic exposure maybe even be superior at the other schools espeically in those honor programs. So for Lafayette to trash, short fund, or otherwise cripple those things that make us unique is to destroy the school and the experience for the next generation of students.
Because we are a small undergraduate school we will never retain or attract the "rock star" professor but we should have competent dedicated teachers that can transfer the love of learning and understand that the TRUE basis of a liberal undergraduate education includes the variety of experiences a school like Lafayette can offer!!
Franks Tanks
Lafalum wrote:
Couldn't agree more. I have never hired or even wanted to hire a graduate of Swathmore, Williams, Haverford et al.. And all things being equal I hired athletes before I hired a kid who did nothing but occupy a seat in the library for four years. Higher education and Lafayette is becoming lazy. The AVERAGE grade is now 3.2, you need only 4 courses a semester to graduate, the faculty want to teach only 2 courses a semester, and have a whole year off every 7 years and get paid and average of 95,000 dollars a year!!!
It is the only industry that is becoming less efficient. We have empty unused buildings during the summer and our ratio of adiministrators to students is among the highest in PL if not the nation!!
They want more money each year from alumni and then ignore their desires and don't want to listen to them. The leadership on the BOT has not turned over in 15 maybe 20 years. They take your money and use it for other puposes.
Last point, do you really in your heart believe that your son/daughter gets a better academic experience at Lafayette than they would at the 'honors" programs of Penn State, Maryland, UNC, Michigan. All of which even for out of state students is cheaper!! By their very size they have a diversity of courses we can't match.
The difference at Lafayette is they can join a frat, a sorority, be a member of a Div 1 team, a club team,have a variety of simultaneous leadership experiences, or whatever. The academic exposure maybe even be superior at the other schools espeically in those honor programs. So for Lafayette to trash, short fund, or otherwise cripple those things that make us unique is to destroy the school and the experience for the next generation of students.
Because we are a small undergraduate school we will never retain or attract the "rock star" professor but we should have competent dedicated teachers that can transfer the love of learning and understand that the TRUE basis of a liberal undergraduate education includes the variety of experiences a school like Lafayette can offer!!
Thanks Lafalum-- one comment is regarding the Honors program at leading state universities vs. a school like Lafayette. I do believe if you have a very specific interest in a hard science, or desire to do a deep dive in a narrow field those universities offer better opps in many way. As good as our science departments are they simply cannot match the depth and breath of some of these science or very specific programs at quality state research universities.
However, if you want small classes, a well rounded education, life long aptitude to learn, and enough skills to prepare you for most jobs or careers sought by those with a Bachelors-- You really cant go wrong with an LAC, and its all about finding one that best fit your personality and skil level.
LC Fan
Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
To think that there's not an opportunity for a social scene at Lafayette except for fraternities and sororities is just plain wrong. Holing up in a frat house waiting for the world to come to you isn't what makes Lafayette special!
Franks Tanks
LC Fan wrote:
Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
To think that there's not an opportunity for a social scene at Lafayette except for fraternities and sororities is just plain wrong. Holing up in a frat house waiting for the world to come to you isn't what makes Lafayette special!
Holing up in the frat house is the last thing that occurs. If thats all that occurred why would successful middle age men fight passionately to "save their house."
I am the first to admit that the primary focus and attraction of a fraternity is social interaction, but there is more too it. If there was nothing else, why would people care?
Also IMO one of the best ways to build responsibility and leadership in college is to hold an office in your fraternity. Having responsibility to 40-50 young guys or the direction or financies of the house is way more impactful than being the president of some goofy club that meets once a month and nobody cares about.
Lafalum
LC Fan wrote:
Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
To think that there's not an opportunity for a social scene at Lafayette except for fraternities and sororities is just plain wrong.
I don't think I did. The point is you should have the opportunity to participate in those experiences whether you choose to join or go in another direction. My point is the BOT and this president are pre-empting many of those opportunities in favor of an academic experience that is not particularly unique, albiet a fine education. Not one graduate of Lafayette will be qualified to do brain surgery, practice law, engineer a major building or run a bank or major business the day they graduate. I think being an intercollegiate athlete and the member of a national fraternity was a key part of my education and contributed to my growth as a responsible citizen as much as my course in Modern British Fiction. That is not in the lexicon of this faculty, administration or Trustees
cr
[quote="Lafalum"]
LC Fan wrote:
Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
To think that there's not an opportunity for a social scene at Lafayette except for fraternities and sororities is just plain wrong.
I don't think I did. The point is you should have the opportunity to participate in those experiences whether you choose to join or go in another direction. My point is the BOT and this president are pre-empting many of those opportunities in favor of an academic experience that is not particularly unique, albiet a fine education. Not one graduate of Lafayette will be qualified to do brain surgery, practice law, engineer a major building or run a bank or major business the day they graduate. I think being an intercollegiate athlete and the member of a national fraternity was a key part of my education and contributed to my growth as a responsible citizen as much as my course in Modern British Fiction. That is not in the lexicon of this faculty, administration or Trustees[/quot
I am in complete agreement with Lafalum and Franks Tanks as Colgate is so similar to Lafayette and faces the same challenges. Stick to your guns. I don't recall seeing posts for LC fan before so suspect he is an "insider"from the Admin/faculty camp.
TheTruth
I had nice long reply that I planned to post in response to LC Fan but work got in the way. I don't think he/she understands that those who poast on here are some of the closest friends of the College and care very much about the welfare of our institution.
Lafayette, like Colgate, BU, HC, Lehigh, are unique schools. Fraternities and interconllegiate atheltcs are a big part of it. If Lafayette were being founded today, it would probably be about 2500-3000 students, would not have engineering, play Div. 3 and would not have fraternities. Instead you have a school with 2200 students, a top 10 engineering program, Div. 1 sports and fraternities and sororities. It works because we have immensely loyal alumni who continue to donate large sums of money because the College means so much. The greek system and athletics play a large part of this.
I'm not saying change is not necessary because it is. The students have more leadership opportuinites than ever which is very good. The Greek system needed an overhaul. Too much focus on drinking. But we have swung the pendulum too far in the other direction. Now we have an opportunity to provide true student leadership opportunities in these organizations but the College has a different agenda. To be honest, that's fine but have the guts to stand up and make the decision, defend it and accept the consequences. Instead we get what has been happening over the past 2 decades, a slow painful death which has alienated countless alumni. Other colleges like ours have successfully integrated the Greek system into student life, F&M and Gettysburg come to mind. These schools have no where near the financial resources we have.
Weiss came in with a lot of promise but the one decision he made that hurt the school more than anything was reducing the size of the incoming class. The BOT back in 2002 (help me out wtih the date lafalum) decided to increase the size of the school to help deal with the costs of a Div. 1 athletic program and expanding the arts and sciences. Plans were being developed to add residence hall space and expand the faculty. Weiss decides to reduce the incoming class to improve our academic standing since faculty to student ratio is the leading indicator (never understood this but I'm not an egghead). Of course, he doesn't agree with US News and World report but this decision is in direct response to this survey. Now we become even more dependent on our endowment and alumni donations to run day to day operations. God forbid we have an economic downturn and our endowment is reduced by 30%. Oh wait, that is happening now.
65Pard
[quote="LC Fan"]Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
Fraternities offer life experiences that clubs and lectures cannot provide....Interaction on a daily basis with diverse individuals....learning to fraternize, cope and grow in a social sense...developing character from frustrations and triumphs of leadership positions......Lifelong friendships that often offer later benefits in a business and professional sense.
For every couch potato in a fraternity you can find a few in dorm recreation rooms....Undesirable behavior is not fostered by fraternities any more than in dorms.....its roots predate college acceptance.
The comments I have heard over the years about LC grads alway tend to point out how well rounded they are.....and the professional success of our grads is a testament to that.......Sad to see that this could change....
Lafalum
TheTruth wrote:
Lafayette, like Colgate, BU, HC, Lehigh, are unique schools. Fraternities and interconllegiate atheltcs are a big part of it. If Lafayette were being founded today, it would probably be about 2500-3000 students, would not have engineering, play Div. 3 and would not have fraternities. Instead you have a school with 2200 students, a top 10 engineering program, Div. 1 sports and fraternities and sororities. It works because we have immensely loyal alumni who continue to donate large sums of money because the College means so much. The greek system and athletics play a large part of this.
Weiss came in with a lot of promise but the one decision he made that hurt the school more than anything was reducing the size of the incoming class. The BOT back in 2002 (help me out wtih the date lafalum) decided to increase the size of the school to help deal with the costs of a Div. 1 athletic program and expanding the arts and sciences. Plans were being developed to add residence hall space and expand the faculty. Weiss decides to reduce the incoming class to improve our academic standing since faculty to student ratio is the leading indicator (never understood this but I'm not an egghead). Of course, he doesn't agree with US News and World report but this decision is in direct response to this survey. Now we become even more dependent on our endowment and alumni donations to run day to day operations. God forbid we have an economic downturn and our endowment is reduced by 30%. Oh wait, that is happening now.
Rothkopf slowly increased the size but never made a public declaration to the faculty. In fact the faculty to this day resists raising the size of the school. Most thinking BOT member know this. Weis' plan does not work without an endowmet of 1.2 -1.5 billion dollars. We can't raise the money and the market will not help. His plan is dead in the water and he should realize that.
TheTruth
I knew there was no formal" announcement but it was definitely being done.
