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Lafalum

Field hockey loss to Holy Cross

In his blog Rappolt details the loss yesterday including a ten minute yellow card near the end of game. The official inserted herself into the outcome. Video included. He also shows how the Leopards still have a chance to make the playoffs with a win against Colgate ( the worst team in Division one) and if Bucknell loses to American. ( they lost to Boston yesterday).
www.lafayettefieldhockey.com
ed65

Once again, an inept official makes a questionable call in a PL game.  This seems to happen frequently as the league somehow doesn't attract quality officials.  I am most familiar with the umpires in baseball and as a group they are often terrible with inconsistent strike zones and too many calls favoring the home team (go to a game up at Army some time and watch the umps - that and the terrible music that Army plays at the games make it a chore to go there!).  Too bad for Millen yesterday - refs should NEVER determine the outcome of a game.
bison137

ed65 wrote:
Once again, an inept official makes a questionable call in a PL game.  This seems to happen frequently as the league somehow doesn't attract quality officials.  I am most familiar with the umpires in baseball and as a group they are often terrible with inconsistent strike zones and too many calls favoring the home team (go to a game up at Army some time and watch the umps - that and the terrible music that Army plays at the games make it a chore to go there!).  



As is the case for all sports, there is no such thing as a Patriot League ref.   All of the officials ref in multiple conferences.    In fact they are not even assigned by the league, and the home team certainly has nothing to do with assigning them.

As an example, the two officials for LC's game Saturday vs HC both have officiated in many different conferences in recent years, including the ACC and Big Ten.   The younger one, who was a star player not too many years ago for nationally ranked Syracuse, has reffed games this year in the ACC, A10, MAAC, and the NEC.   The older one has reffed multiple Big 10 games this year (Ohio State, Penn State, Indiana, etc).    And here is a picture of her reffing a Syracuse-North Carolina ACC game last year:

Sally Edinger
NewXbo

bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Once again, an inept official makes a questionable call in a PL game.  This seems to happen frequently as the league somehow doesn't attract quality officials.  I am most familiar with the umpires in baseball and as a group they are often terrible with inconsistent strike zones and too many calls favoring the home team (go to a game up at Army some time and watch the umps - that and the terrible music that Army plays at the games make it a chore to go there!).  



As is the case for all sports, there is no such thing as a Patriot League ref.   All of the officials ref in multiple conferences.    In fact they are not even assigned by the league, and the home team certainly has nothing to do with assigning them.

As an example, the two officials for LC's game Saturday vs HC both have officiated in many different conferences in recent years, including the ACC and Big Ten.   The younger one, who was a star player not too many years ago for nationally ranked Syracuse, has reffed games this year in the ACC, A10, MAAC, and the NEC.   The older one has reffed multiple Big 10 games this year (Ohio State, Penn State, Indiana, etc).    And here is a picture of her reffing a Syracuse-North Carolina ACC game last year:

Sally Edinger



This is not the one who made the call. The one who made the call was younger and had dark hair.
Lafalum

The official let her ego get in the way of reasonableness. It was a call that is extremely rare and given the video certainly was not merited and she should have been called on it. I hope she reviews it herself as should the director of league officials to make her a better official. It's good for the game!
Marooner

Do we know if any of the "magic words" were said by Millen or a coach after the whistle? I've only ever seen a couple of 10 minute penalties (not that I'm a huge field hockey guy) and they have all involved something "extracurricular" after the initial call.
Lafalum

Marooner wrote:
Do we know if any of the "magic words" were said by Millen or a coach after the whistle? I've only ever seen a couple of 10 minute penalties (not that I'm a huge field hockey guy) and they have all involved something "extracurricular" after the initial call.


The answer is no, though the two captains had complained several minute before when she called 5 corners in row ( she awarded corners during the execution of previous corners). But I was close by and tone was firm but respectful. Jennifer spoke after the game and the last words from the official were, "send me the tape and I will look at it!". NO complaints of extracurricular incidents. She then asked for an escort to her car. Most of the fans were unaware she awarded ten minutes so there was no fan noise that I noticed. This was an official that was out of bounds! The call should be reviewed by the league and a conversation by League supervisor should be made. ( I am aware the officials come from all over but we still have a Supervisor of Officials and the call should be reviewed and the PL should evaluate her performance.)
Marooner

Thanks for clarifying, lafalum. I don't mean to imply that our team is prone to behavior like that on the field (though I suppose we all are, at our worst...), but at least that explanation would make sense. Oh well. Go Leopards and - just for a week or so - go American!
NewXbo

Lafalum wrote:
Marooner wrote:
Do we know if any of the "magic words" were said by Millen or a coach after the whistle? I've only ever seen a couple of 10 minute penalties (not that I'm a huge field hockey guy) and they have all involved something "extracurricular" after the initial call.


The answer is no, though the two captains had complained several minute before when she called 5 corners in row ( she awarded corners during the execution of previous corners). But I was close by and tone was firm but respectful. Jennifer spoke after the game and the last words from the official were, "send me the tape and I will look at it!". NO complaints of extracurricular incidents. She then asked for an escort to her car. Most of the fans were unaware she awarded ten minutes so there was no fan noise that I noticed. This was an official that was out of bounds! The call should be reviewed by the league and a conversation by League supervisor should be made. ( I am aware the officials come from all over but we still have a Supervisor of Officials and the call should be reviewed and the PL should evaluate her performance.)



Interesting that she asked for an escort to her car. I was walking through the parking lot when she arrived. She asked one of the "security" people if there was a special place for officials. They told her to park anywhere. She told them they should have a separate place for officials. They told her again to park where ever she wanted.
Lafalum

NewXbo wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
Marooner wrote:
Do we know if any of the "magic words" were said by Millen or a coach after the whistle? I've only ever seen a couple of 10 minute penalties (not that I'm a huge field hockey guy) and they have all involved something "extracurricular" after the initial call.


The answer is no, though the two captains had complained several minute before when she called 5 corners in row ( she awarded corners during the execution of previous corners). But I was close by and tone was firm but respectful. Jennifer spoke after the game and the last words from the official were, "send me the tape and I will look at it!". NO complaints of extracurricular incidents. She then asked for an escort to her car. Most of the fans were unaware she awarded ten minutes so there was no fan noise that I noticed. This was an official that was out of bounds! The call should be reviewed by the league and a conversation by League supervisor should be made. ( I am aware the officials come from all over but we still have a Supervisor of Officials and the call should be reviewed and the PL should evaluate her performance.)



Interesting that she asked for an escort to her car. I was walking through the parking lot when she arrived. She asked one of the "security" people if there was a special place for officials. They told her to park anywhere. She told them they should have a separate place for officials. They told her again to park where ever she wanted.


So can we assume that she has been in this situation before!!???
bison137

NewXbo wrote:
bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Once again, an inept official makes a questionable call in a PL game.  This seems to happen frequently as the league somehow doesn't attract quality officials.  I am most familiar with the umpires in baseball and as a group they are often terrible with inconsistent strike zones and too many calls favoring the home team (go to a game up at Army some time and watch the umps - that and the terrible music that Army plays at the games make it a chore to go there!).  



As is the case for all sports, there is no such thing as a Patriot League ref.   All of the officials ref in multiple conferences.    In fact they are not even assigned by the league, and the home team certainly has nothing to do with assigning them.

As an example, the two officials for LC's game Saturday vs HC both have officiated in many different conferences in recent years, including the ACC and Big Ten.   The younger one, who was a star player not too many years ago for nationally ranked Syracuse, has reffed games this year in the ACC, A10, MAAC, and the NEC.   The older one has reffed multiple Big 10 games this year (Ohio State, Penn State, Indiana, etc).    And here is a picture of her reffing a Syracuse-North Carolina ACC game last year:

Sally Edinger



This is not the one who made the call. The one who made the call was younger and had dark hair.



My mistake.   Then the one who made the call is Maggie Befort, who was a former star for a Syracuse Final Four team.   In addition to being a college ref, she is also a referee for the International Hockey Federation and has recently officiated in two international competitions.   As noted above, this fall she has refereed games in the ACC, A10, NEC, MAAC, and PL.    She also has a degree in engineering.    She obviously is well regarded or she wouldn't be getting the assignments she has received.
bison137

Lafalum wrote:
The call should be reviewed by the league and a conversation by League supervisor should be made. ( I am aware the officials come from all over but we still have a Supervisor of Officials and the call should be reviewed and the PL should evaluate her performance.)



I don't think there is a PL supervisor of officials for FH (or any sport) but rather a supervisor who is responsible for the officials for multiple leagues.   Even basketball has a supervisor of officials who works across multiple leagues.
Interested Pardee

That's quite bizarre.  I've been to quite a few FH games over the past dozen years at all levels, and have yet to see anyone follow an umpire out of the pitch (even after an umpire has thrown a fan out due to abusive language, which I have seen several times).  I guess that doesn't mean it could never happen, but this isn't softball (...sad to say, I've had to step between a "fan" and an umpire trying to get home safely ...and this was 16U!).

I, too, was at the game and was unaware that it was a 10 minute yellow.  Certainly, that would have angered me, and many of the fans were angry at that call and others, but I think everyone was more shell-shocked at the performance of the team.  I agree that officials should not inject themselves into the outcome of the game, but good teams don't put themselves in the position for this to happen.  Lafayette came out strong in the first half and never took it to kill mode in the second.  They allowed Cross too many turnovers and unimpeded paths to the cage and, well, the inevitable happened.
ed65

bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Once again, an inept official makes a questionable call in a PL game.  This seems to happen frequently as the league somehow doesn't attract quality officials.  I am most familiar with the umpires in baseball and as a group they are often terrible with inconsistent strike zones and too many calls favoring the home team (go to a game up at Army some time and watch the umps - that and the terrible music that Army plays at the games make it a chore to go there!).  



As is the case for all sports, there is no such thing as a Patriot League ref.   All of the officials ref in multiple conferences.    In fact they are not even assigned by the league, and the home team certainly has nothing to do with assigning them.

As an example, the two officials for LC's game Saturday vs HC both have officiated in many different conferences in recent years, including the ACC and Big Ten.   The younger one, who was a star player not too many years ago for nationally ranked Syracuse, has reffed games this year in the ACC, A10, MAAC, and the NEC.   The older one has reffed multiple Big 10 games this year (Ohio State, Penn State, Indiana, etc).    And here is a picture of her reffing a Syracuse-North Carolina ACC game last year:

Sally Edinger


I appreciate the clarification by Bison.  However, that does not explain why the official made the call (which had a real impact on the outcome of the game).  And it does not explain why the league seems to get such lousy umpires in baseball (with which admittedly, I am more familiar that with FH).  Officials whether they are former players, officiate in big conferences or are very experienced SHOULD NOT determine the outcome of games.  For the fans not to have known that this was a ten minute penalty is amazing to me - you would think there would be some kind of announcement (Bison can explain this perhaps).  It sounds like the official is paranoid or has had difficulties at other games given her request for an escort to the car.  But as annoying as officials can be there is no excuse for harassing them after games are over, as much as a fan might want to!  I recall an incident many years ago at my high school when fans went after a football ref who called a holding penalty at the end of a game (a phantom call when reviewed on tape).  Appropriately, the fans were arrested and paid some serious fines, not to mention legal fees.
Interested Pardee

ed65 wrote:
...For the fans not to have known that this was a ten minute penalty is amazing to me - you would think there would be some kind of announcement


In FH, all calls are made through hand signals.  If you're not aware of the signal, or not sitting at the scorer's table or one of the team benches when an umpire makes an explanation, you won't know.
Lafalum

bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The call should be reviewed by the league and a conversation by League supervisor should be made. ( I am aware the officials come from all over but we still have a Supervisor of Officials and the call should be reviewed and the PL should evaluate her performance.)



I don't think there is a PL supervisor of officials for FH (or any sport) but rather a supervisor who is responsible for the officials for multiple leagues.   Even basketball has a supervisor of officials who works across multiple leagues.

Paul Tamaborino is supervisor for soccer officals for the Patriot League ( He was appointed in June. I assume there is one for every sport,  but I am fallible. I can't believe there isn't some review process. I know the coaches evaluate each official. The fact remains a 10 minute yellow is extraordinarily rare. No one was on the ground and there was no complaint of bad language.
Agreed the team played a bad second half but they were especially deflated after that call which happened after 4-5 corner calls within an original corner Also unusual. I could care less if she was a star player. In any case there is some supervisor and her performance should be reviewed.
adcs2

From PL Manuals ...

Field Hockey

All regular-season and Championship officials will be assigned by the Patriot League Assignor of Officials

2014-15 list of assignors ...

Jim Maconaghy, Coordinator of Football Officials
Reggie Greenwood, Coordinator of Men’s Basketball Officials
Renee Dorfman, Coordinator of Women’s Basketball Officials
Nick Zibelli, Assignor of Baseball Umpires
Alex Ivahnenko, Assignor of Soccer Officials
Ed Crane, Assignor of Softball Umpires
Steven Webster, Supervisor of Volleyball Officials
Jane L. Hansen, Assignor of Field Hockey Officials
Jen O’Donnell, Assignor of Women’s Lacrosse
bison137

Lafalum wrote:
bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The call should be reviewed by the league and a conversation by League supervisor should be made. ( I am aware the officials come from all over but we still have a Supervisor of Officials and the call should be reviewed and the PL should evaluate her performance.)



I don't think there is a PL supervisor of officials for FH (or any sport) but rather a supervisor who is responsible for the officials for multiple leagues.   Even basketball has a supervisor of officials who works across multiple leagues.

Paul Tamaborino is supervisor for soccer officals for the Patriot League ( He was appointed in June. I assume there is one for every sport,  but I am fallible. I can't believe there isn't some review process. I know the coaches evaluate each official. The fact remains a 10 minute yellow is extraordinarily rare. No one was on the ground and there was no complaint of bad language.
Agreed the team played a bad second half but they were especially deflated after that call which happened after 4-5 corner calls within an original corner Also unusual. I could care less if she was a star player. In any case there is some supervisor and her performance should be reviewed.



As  I said, the PL uses supervisors who work across multiple leagues.     Tamberino acts as the supervisor for men's and women's soccer for the ACC, the Ivy League, the MAAC, and the PL.  

No one suggested that a referee's performance couldn't be reviewed.   But the fact that she has been selected to referee games at such a high level suggests that her overall performance has been quite good.
bison137

adcs2 wrote:
From PL Manuals ...

Field Hockey

All regular-season and Championship officials will be assigned by the Patriot League Assignor of Officials

2014-15 list of assignors ...

Jim Maconaghy, Coordinator of Football Officials
Reggie Greenwood, Coordinator of Men’s Basketball Officials
Renee Dorfman, Coordinator of Women’s Basketball Officials
Nick Zibelli, Assignor of Baseball Umpires
Alex Ivahnenko, Assignor of Soccer Officials
Ed Crane, Assignor of Softball Umpires
Steven Webster, Supervisor of Volleyball Officials
Jane L. Hansen, Assignor of Field Hockey Officials
Jen O’Donnell, Assignor of Women’s Lacrosse



Note that all of the above serve as assignors for multiple leagues, not just the PL.   Nick Zibelli, for example, is assignor for America East, Ivy League, NEC, A10, MAAC, and Patriot League - in other words, every league in the northeast except the Big East.

Jane Hansen, who asssigns for FH, also has that role for the Big Ten, the Ivy League, the Patriot League, and a few others.
bison137

ed65 wrote:
it does not explain why the league seems to get such lousy umpires in baseball (with which admittedly, I am more familiar that with FH).  Officials whether they are former players, officiate in big conferences or are very experienced SHOULD NOT determine the outcome of games.



As mentioned above, the same assignor works for the Ivy League, Patriot League, NEC, America East, A10, and the MAAC when it comes to baseball.  Many of the same umpires are assigned across all of these conferences.    If they are bad, it is not a Patriot League thing but rather a general problem with umpires in the northeast who ref midmajor games.
Lafalum

bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
it does not explain why the league seems to get such lousy umpires in baseball (with which admittedly, I am more familiar that with FH).  Officials whether they are former players, officiate in big conferences or are very experienced SHOULD NOT determine the outcome of games.



As mentioned above, the same assignor works for the Ivy League, Patriot League, NEC, America East, A10, and the MAAC when it comes to baseball.  Many of the same umpires are assigned across all of these conferences.    If they are bad, it is not a Patriot League thing but rather a general problem with umpires in the northeast who ref midmajor games.


The issue is she made a terrible call, I don't care if she was all world and referees world championships. She made a terrible call and she should be called on it and reviewed. It makes for overall better officiating….a problem in US field hockey overall. The ACC and Big Ten now have video review as are all NCAA tournament games.  I might point out I did not identify her. She should be reviewed not necessarily outed on a fan board. I want better officiating not a public pillaring. I think her name should be deleted.
Fortunately we have video and it should be reviewed by her and the assignor  and any other grand pooh bah in the pecking order. There is a process and that is what counts.
I would have preferred a discussion of the call rather than her credentials or who assigns officials.  A TEN MINUTE CARD WITH 11 1/2 TO GO IS EXTRAORDINARY.
ed65

bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
it does not explain why the league seems to get such lousy umpires in baseball (with which admittedly, I am more familiar that with FH).  Officials whether they are former players, officiate in big conferences or are very experienced SHOULD NOT determine the outcome of games.



As mentioned above, the same assignor works for the Ivy League, Patriot League, NEC, America East, A10, and the MAAC when it comes to baseball.  Many of the same umpires are assigned across all of these conferences.    If they are bad, it is not a Patriot League thing but rather a general problem with umpires in the northeast who ref midmajor games.


Believe me, some of them (the umpires) are bad.  

But, point taken  Bison.  Thank you.

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