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Jpao92

Frank Tavani, who made this monster?

Given his performance, his quotes after the Lehigh game and his overall demeanor, I am forced to conclude Frank is delusional, arrogant or a fool or all of the above.  I don't think I have ever seen anything like this in sports.  A coach with more than a losing record, rather, a record of complete and total failure.  A coach that has no clue what he is doing nor does he care to.  That coach says "eff you, I can screw over the school, alums and anyone I want!"  

How the hell did we get here?  How did we get to a point where a coach can tell his employer that HE is the boss?
The Maroon

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...fiant_tavani_stands_his_grou.html
Kpard

84-107
I like Coach T but after reading his comments, I have lost all interest in my school's football program. How arrogant.
BillS

The Maroon wrote:
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...fiant_tavani_stands_his_grou.html
Am I wrong saying that Frank isn't showing any class?
Jpao92

[quote="Kpard:57951"]84-107[/quote]

Right, got it.  What I want to know is how that record became irrelevant and how he was ever told that he was coach for life.
Pard4Life

Jeez... what an ass...

Where's Bogie with his photoshop? We need some vultures circling the Frankosaurus
BillS

Pard4Life wrote:
Jeez... what an ass...

Where's Bogie with his photoshop? We need some vultures circling the Frankosaurus
The AD and President has to recognize this man is losing it ,hopefully his family steps in and tells him it's over!
Kpard

7 straight losing seasons. Look at the tenure of the coaching staff. Loose left, why? (A rhetorical question) Who's in charge? In the words of the immortal Vince Lombardi, "what the hell is going on out there?"
Jpao92

BillS,

Fat chance.  He has to be looking at the new committee and smiling to see his enablers The Oreo and the Stache getting named as members.  Bullet proof, indeed.
pardfan

The "Friends of Football" might have a role here.  After all, waiting til the spring for this consultant thing may be too late.  They should talk amongst themselves, admit that the program is in a death spiral, and call Frank, Bruce, and Alison and tell them that they will not support the program in its present state.  IMO things would start happening.
artanis

"How the hell did we get here?  How did we get to a point where a coach can tell his employer that HE is the boss?"

Bizarre, but go "up the ladder" for the answer. Usually, regardless what a coach thinks or how he may assess his own performance, seven straight losing seasons, failure to develop players, failure to beat your Ivy League/PL opponents, gets you canned. Sorry, this is ultimately on the administration. By doing nothing (or, by "studying it"), they are saying "sports is not really important, nor is winning".
BillS

pardfan wrote:
The "Friends of Football" might have a role here.  After all, waiting til the spring for this consultant thing may be too late.  They should talk amongst themselves, admit that the program is in a death spiral, and call Frank, Bruce, and Alison and tell them that they will not support the program in its present state.  IMO things would start happening.
I agree!!! This is embarrassing! Franks arrogance is troubling and he sounds like a man who is becoming unhinged very sad !
bethlehempard

I expected an 0-11 or 1-10 season, so 2016 turned out to be a huge success. I'm not sure how I owe FT money though. Is he going to sue people who say on this board that he's done a bad job?
I love Lafayette, I'm forever grateful for the aid that allowed me to attend,  and the school offers so much more than sports.
I'm lucky enough to live nearby so I can appreciate the speakers and events and exhibits. Just walks around campus, particularly in the summer.  
But GODDAMIT the football situation is downright perverted!

Where else does the program serve the coach, rather than the coach serving the program?
OSU fired Bruce. UD fired Keeler. LSU fired Miles.
IT'S F'N TIME!

"I need a drink, and a quick decision ..."

NOW!
Jpao92

I can't get the image out of my head of Humphrey Bogart as Captain Queeq in the Caine Mutiny.   All Frank needs are three steel balls.  If you watch a game and read his lips I swear he is muttering something about strawberries as he wanders the sidelines aimlessly.
bethlehempard

Jpao92 wrote:
I can't get the image out of my head of Humphrey Bogart as Captain Queeq in the Caine Mutiny.   All Frank needs is three steel balls.  If you watch a game and read his lips I swear he is muttering something about strawberries as he wanders the sidelines aimlessly.


"Rosebud ...."

Any assistants who could would flee.

Queeg ... hah! Movie references are always great. How about "Paths of Glory" with the immortal Kirk Douglas?
pardfan

I'm thinking of Stephen Boyd (Lafayette football) waiting for Charlton Heston after the chariot race in Ben Hur.
bethlehempard

Ben Hur, written by a Civil War general, and the film was controversial in its day. Now it's almost quaint.

Maybe Swoozie Kurtz as Michael Caine's wife in "A Shock to the System":
"I forgive you for failing."
Again and again and ...
bethlehempard

Lehigh       Lafayette
1st Downs 26 28
3rd down efficiency 8-13 8-16
4th down efficiency 1-2 0-3
Total Yards 510 472
Passing 291 398
Comp-Att 25-36 36-57
Yards per pass 8.1 7.0
Interceptions thrown 1 1
Rushing 219 74
Rushing Attempts 39 29
Yards per rush 5.6 2.6
Penalties 3-33 5-44
Turnovers 1 2
Fumbles lost 0 1
Interceptions thrown 1 1
Possession 31:14 28:46

We have guys who can play. I'm
convinced of that.
flyfisher

Some of you guys are missing it. Diorio is the key. She has Byerly's ear and she is not a fan of sports. Then the BOT meme er on the committee that has athletics responsibility is not a fan of sports. Bruce is a lame duck. Reports to  Diorio, can't say a word. McKittrick just cares about gender equity and is in way to over her head. Most colleges have more qualified people running their intramural programs.
Jpao92

[quote="flyfisher:57975"]Some of you guys are missing it. Diorio is the key. She has Byerly's ear and she is not a fan of sports. Then the BOT meme er on the committee that has athletics responsibility is not a fan of sports. Bruce is a lame duck. Reports to  Diorio, can't say a word. McKittrick just cares about gender equity and is in way to over her head. Most colleges have more qualified people running their intramural programs.[/quote]

Hal Kamine is a fan of sports.  But I agree that Diorio is not a good factor here.  We alums need to get in Allison's ear asap and ask her what Diorio's qualifications are when it comes to Division 1 athletics.
Franks Tanks

Does anyone have a video or transcript of Frank's ridiculous post game comments?  Want to know exactly what he said.
Andy

http://www.goleopards.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/111916aaa.html

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...fiant_tavani_stands_his_grou.html

http://www.mcall.com/sports/colle...tte-game-1119-20161119-story.html


"I am a glass half-full kind of guy," he said. "We are almost finished our recruiting. We have just three spots left. We'll move this thing forward. I don't think we're that off."

"We got a lot of yards [472] but not enough points," he added.....Tavani chimed in, "We need a lot of those freshmen to become sophomores."
Jpao92

https://mobile.twitter.com/GJoyce9/status/800096142583353344
Franks Tanks

Thanks.

Those comments are disgraceful.  The school owes him money? He owes the school and the donors money for his incompetence and complete failure to perform several vital job functions. Money meant to improve the program goes up in smoke due to lack of simple effort from the top.

But hey we got new jerseys for no reason whatsoever!
BPard

Quote:
Diorio is the key. She has Byerly's ear and she is not a fan of sports.
If, unlike her predecessor, she does not care whether or not athletics is under her control, then she could very well be fine with elevating the position of AD to her peer. She's got enough to worry about as it is.

I remain cautiously optimistic that this is the long game, which the committee hopefully advances in their recommendations.

The comments from Frank are embarrassing. How can Friends of Football endorse his comments and stand by the coach?
flyfisher

BPard wrote:
Quote:
Diorio is the key. She has Byerly's ear and she is not a fan of sports.
If, unlike her predecessor, she does not care whether or not athletics is under her control, then she could very well be fine with elevating the position of AD to her peer. She's got enough to worry about as it is.

I remain cautiously optimistic that this is the long game, which the committee hopefully advances in their recommendations.

The comments from Frank are embarrassing. How can Friends of Football endorse his comments and stand by the coach?


You do realize Diorio is running the committee?  Go back and look at why she got demoted a few years ago.
flyfisher

Andy wrote:
http://www.goleopards.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/111916aaa.html

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...fiant_tavani_stands_his_grou.html

http://www.mcall.com/sports/colle...tte-game-1119-20161119-story.html


"I am a glass half-full kind of guy," he said. "We are almost finished our recruiting. We have just three spots left. We'll move this thing forward. I don't think we're that off."

"We got a lot of yards [472] but not enough points," he added.....Tavani chimed in, "We need a lot of those freshmen to become sophomores."


We're not that far off? Really? When was our last winning season? I will say this, it's not just a football problem. We don't have a single team with a winning record.
BPard

flyfisher wrote:
You do realize Diorio is running the committee?  Go back and look at why she got demoted a few years ago.
yes, i know she is the chair. Based on the other committees she's chaired for areas under her purview but where she does not have strong convictions one way or the other (which I think fits her views on athletics), I think the outcome I mentioned is still plausible, possibly likely.

So yes, I remain optimistic.
Pard4Life

Our motto is pride passion purpose.

Frank has killed all three.
The Maroon

bethlehempard wrote:
Lehigh       Lafayette
1st Downs 26 28
3rd down efficiency 8-13 8-16
4th down efficiency 1-2 0-3
Total Yards 510 472
Passing 291 398
Comp-Att 25-36 36-57
Yards per pass 8.1 7.0
Interceptions thrown 1 1
Rushing 219 74
Rushing Attempts 39 29
Yards per rush 5.6 2.6
Penalties 3-33 5-44
Turnovers 1 2
Fumbles lost 0 1
Interceptions thrown 1 1
Possession 31:14 28:46

We have guys who can play. I'm
convinced of that.


Come on now...we were down 45-7 in the third quarter!!!! If there was ever a time for meaningless stats...

Didn't we take solace in having even stats after last years game (where we spotted them 3 TD's?)

I look at it as dropping the baton in a relay race but taking solace in running pretty fast otherwise...
NewXbo

Can someone explain what Frank was yapping about when he stated the college owed him money? Isn't his salary of $225,000 +/- endowed by the Kirby Foundation?
zenator

I feel the pain and the frustration of this losing season. Wish it was otherwise but rebuilds take time.

I commend this year's senior class--small in number, reduced by injury, but busted their ass and led by example.

I expect that Frank gets one more season and hopefully a new offensive coordinator.

Now, let us hope that this year's recruiting class equals or exceeds this year's. Go Pards.
Jpao92

Frank deserves NOTHING, NADDA.  He isn't rebuilding anything at this
point.  7 years of losing is not a rebuild.  It's an on the job retirement.
Franks Tanks

Jpao92 wrote:
Frank deserves NOTHING, NADDA.  He isn't rebuilding anything at this
point.  7 years of losing is not a rebuild.  It's an on the job retirement.


Yup.  It is only a rebuild because he screwed it up in the 1st place.  Also the team is getting worse, not rebuilding.  These past 2 years have been incredibly poor.

Also if you're going to fire a coordinator, please have it be the defensive one.  Our guys blow coverages, and are just out of position time and time again.  It's brutal.
Kpard

Woody Hayes, Bear Bryant, Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, are you getting the picture yet?
Kpard

Does anyone also realize that Lafayette, the home team in the most played rivalry, did not sell its allotment of tickets. A testament to the product.
Jpao92

[quote="Kpard:58013"]Woody Hayes, Bear Bryant, Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, are you getting the picture yet?[/quote]

Frank Tavani!!   You forgot Frank.
Andy

NewXbo wrote:
Can someone explain what Frank was yapping about when he stated the college owed him money? Isn't his salary of $225,000 +/- endowed by the Kirby Foundation?


I assume he means the remaining year on his contract, which he vows not to walk away from regardless of how bad his teams have been. This is deserved, he claims, because "his kids qraduate" and demonstrate "good behavior on and off the field." A reference, I further assume, to the program that just kicked his ass but who had 6 kids arrested in the incident where they broke into a home, beat up a student while he lay in bed and urinated in his refrigerator.

Kirby family donated designated money to LC  which became part of the overall endowment, interest from which (the designated funds) is used to fund his salary and maybe perks. He holds the position of Fred M. Kirby Head Football Coach.  If his salary is $225k, he's laughing all the way to the bank.
Spardicus80

Last Thursday, I received a phone call in my office from a young lady from Lafayette soliciting a donation so that I could "feel the roar".  I politely declined, pointing out that based upon the team's previous performances, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that the team would allow 60 points to Lehigh.

She was not aware of the abysmal records of not only the football team, but of all the intercollegiate teams for the last several years.  When it comes to sports, Lafayette is simply not competitive, and its administration and BOT simply do not care about athletics.

Now we have a coach who believes that he is above everyone else including the president of the college. I, for one, won't stand for it.  As a business owner, there is only one boss.  Truman fired MacArthur for a reason.   I have given to the school every year since I graduated.  I have given to the Maroon Club, and to the sport that I was a part of when I attended Lafayette.  I have given to the recent campaign after the 150 game.  But no more, until those in charge assert their authority, and the pursuit of excellence finally extends to the offices in Kirby Field House.

Please understand that this is a very painful decision.  I look around, and most of the material things that I own and the success that I have achieved are due to the lessons that I learned while at Lafayette.  The student athletes currently attending the school deserve the same chance.  With the attitude that Coach Tavani has recently displayed, they clearly are not getting it.  They deserve so much better.
Franks Tanks

Jpao92 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
Woody Hayes, Bear Bryant, Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, are you getting the picture yet?


Frank Tavani!!   You forgot Frank.


Even Bryant quit saying he couldn't do the job like he used to, and it wasn't fair to his players.  This is after winning B2B tiles 3 years before quitting, and still having very respectable records.

So how long does Frank expect to stay?  10 years? 15 years?  He doesn't recruit, game plan or actually coach so I guess he is having a grand old time picking out new jerseys and yelling at his assistants.
Pards Rule

Kpard wrote:
Does anyone also realize that Lafayette, the home team in the most played rivalry, did not sell its allotment of tickets. A testament to the product.



And how!! KPard I was astonished at the swath of empty seats around me - rows of maroon aluminum!! The whole game from start to finish. On a sunny 69 degree day no less - a record in my experience of warmest Lehigh game since at least my first game in 1980! 2009 was very close at 68 degrees and I think 1982 was a mild 62 (my estimate as no smart phones then!).
ed65

Spardicus80 wrote:
Last Thursday, I received a phone call in my office from a young lady from Lafayette soliciting a donation so that I could "feel the roar".  I politely declined, pointing out that based upon the team's previous performances, it would not be out of the realm of possibility that the team would allow 60 points to Lehigh.

She was not aware of the abysmal records of not only the football team, but of all the intercollegiate teams for the last several years.  When it comes to sports, Lafayette is simply not competitive, and its administration and BOT simply do not care about athletics.

Now we have a coach who believes that he is above everyone else including the president of the college. I, for one, won't stand for it.  As a business owner, there is only one boss.  Truman fired MacArthur for a reason.   I have given to the school every year since I graduated.  I have given to the Maroon Club, and to the sport that I was a part of when I attended Lafayette.  I have given to the recent campaign after the 150 game.  But no more, until those in charge assert their authority, and the pursuit of excellence finally extends to the offices in Kirby Field House.

Please understand that this is a very painful decision.  I look around, and most of the material things that I own and the success that I have achieved are due to the lessons that I learned while at Lafayette.  The student athletes currently attending the school deserve the same chance.  With the attitude that Coach Tavani has recently displayed, they clearly are not getting it.  They deserve so much better.


Spardicus: I totally share your frustration but I think we should wait to see the results of the Patriot League Competition Study before giving up.  If the results of that exorcise don't focus on winning, then there will be a groundswell of people holding back donations to athletics and everything else.
carney2

ed65 wrote:
 If the results of that exorcise don't focus on winning,


Freudian slip or wishful thinking?
Andy

BPard wrote:
Quote:
Diorio is the key. She has Byerly's ear and she is not a fan of sports.
If, unlike her predecessor, she does not care whether or not athletics is under her control, then she could very well be fine with elevating the position of AD to her peer. She's got enough to worry about as it is.

I remain cautiously optimistic that this is the long game, which the committee hopefully advances in their recommendations.


Well, if she doesn't care, why the heck hasn't the following conversation taken place:

"Hey, Alison, let's face it, like you I'm not knowledgeable regarding nor interested in athletics. Why not assign the department to someone who is? You know, for the good of Lafayette? And besides, I could then concentrate more fully on my LGBTQ agenda. Ok, pal?"

"Hmmm, ok, I must admit there's some logic to that.  I was gonna do a study, but..."
flyfisher

Frank isn't going anywhere. Assistant coaches are comfortable. The study/committee doesn't report until April. Too late by then. Plus, this study isn't a football study. It's a study of all our programs, which all have losing records. The problem goes way beyond football.
The Maroon

flyfisher wrote:
Frank isn't going anywhere. Assistant coaches are comfortable. The study/committee doesntbreport until April. Too late by then. Plus, this study isntnanfootball study. It's a study of all our programs, which all have losing records. The problem goes way beyond football.


I get that it's not only football but I say 1) If there's no accountability for football how can there be for anything and 2) With the exception of volleyball this program is in the worst shape!

Also,  how did they manage to sneak in another year on Frank's contact? Their last announcement had it going through 2016. Did they just extend after 150 or was the 2-9 record enough?
Andy

flyfisher wrote:
Frank isn't going anywhere. Assistant coaches are comfortable. The study/committee doesntbreport until April. Too late by then. Plus, this study isntnanfootball study. It's a study of all our programs, which all have losing records. The problem goes way beyond football.


There's "the problem" and there's "the football problem."  Football is near fully funded, has a $30 million dollar facility, and a staff that's failing.  With no accountability. Lots  of our teams are underfunded and the study is to figure out resource allocation, as far as I can tell. "Resources" are mentioned by both Byerly and McCutcheon in the release.

The last contract announcement was worded "at least through 2016."  Yeah, somewhere along the line it was extended another year, apparently.

http://www.goleopards.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/012214aaa.html
SixtyEighter

A BOT member advised me that Frank is going to be allowed to complete his contract because Lafayette doesn't eat coach's contracts. The BOT member is also incredulous that Frank is staying. This could only happen at Laughayette.
Andy

SixtyEighter wrote:
A BOT member advised me that Frank is going to be allowed to complete his contract because Lafayette doesn't eat coach's contracts. The BOT member is also incredulous that Frank is staying. This could only happen at Laughayette.


Apparently Frank is all about Frank, and he feels he's earned the last $225k.
flyfisher

SixtyEighter wrote:
A BOT member advised me that Frank is going to be allowed to complete his contract because Lafayette doesn't eat coach's contracts. The BOT member is also incredulous that Frank is staying. This could only happen at Laughayette.


Exactly what I am saying. He knows he will get paid and LC doesn't have the philosophy to stop the bleeding.

One thing that amazes me is how he keeps going public saying he is staying around. Most coaches in this situation would keep their mouth shut. It seems the coach is telling the president when he will leave, and it will be on his terms.

That BOT member is a member of a group that is part of the problem. Byerly answers to them. She doesn't have their blessing to buy him out, and I got that from several of them. I believe the head of the BOT is a small lawyer from Norristown. No athletic support and has surrounded himself on the board with others of his belief. Look at the trustee on the committee. That should tell you something.

Pardon the IPad. It has a mind of its own tonight.
Andy

Andy wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
Frank isn't going anywhere. Assistant coaches are comfortable. The study/committee doesntbreport until April. Too late by then. Plus, this study isntnanfootball study. It's a study of all our programs, which all have losing records. The problem goes way beyond football.


There's "the problem" and there's "the football problem."  Football is near fully funded, has a $30 million dollar facility, and a staff that's failing.  With no accountability. Lots  of our teams are underfunded and the study is to figure out resource allocation, as far as I can tell. "Resources" are mentioned by both Byerly and McCutcheon in the release.

The last contract announcement was worded "at least through 2016."  Yeah, somewhere along the line it was extended another year, apparently.

http://www.goleopards.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/012214aaa.html


Another way of looking at it Fly:

In the last reporting period LC was 2nd in the league in football expenses while dead last in overall athletic student aid and in overall athletic budget. And I mean, not even close. Football should be held to a high standard due to resources given it. Hopefully the consultant will recognize 3-19 while 2nd in the league in funding doesnt cut it. Overall the dept is way underfunded. In football at least the problem is not"above Frank" apparently it IS Frank and staff.

Frank should feel damn lucky to have made the money he has, and, knowing he's not wanted, should step down honorably for the good of the College and the kids.
bethlehempard

This story from Nov. 3 indicates the contract wasn't extended:

https://lebanonsportsbuzz.com/?p=43963

Below:
If any thoughts of retirement have crept into Tavani’s head, he certainly is letting on about them. Let’s just say there’s a little more tread left on the tires.

“Everyone is starting to ask me that because I’m at the end of a contract,” said Tavani. “I have no desire or thoughts about that. Unless there’s someone who knows something I don’t.
Zeus

[quote="Andy:58061"][quote="Andy:58056"][quote="flyfisher:58051"]Frank isn't going anywhere. Assistant coaches are comfortable. The study/committee doesntbreport until April. Too late by then. Plus, this study isntnanfootball study. It's a study of all our programs, which all have losing records. The problem goes way beyond football.[/quote]

There's "the problem" and there's "the football problem."  Football is near fully funded, has a $30 million dollar facility, and a staff that's failing.  With no accountability. Lots  of our teams are underfunded and the study is to figure out resource allocation, as far as I can tell. "Resources" are mentioned by both Byerly and McCutcheon in the release.

The last contract announcement was worded "at least through 2016."  Yeah, somewhere along the line it was extended another year, apparently.

http://www.goleopards.com/sports/...l/spec-rel/012214aaa.html[/quote]

Another way of looking at it Fly:

In the last reporting period LC was 2nd in the league in football expenses while dead last in overall athletic student aid and in overall athletic budget. And I mean, not even close. Football should be held to a high standard due to resources given it. Hopefully the consultant will recognize 3-19 while 2nd in the league in funding doesnt cut it. Overall the dept is way underfunded. In football at least the problem is not"above Frank" apparently it IS Frank and staff.

Frank should feel damn lucky to have made the money he has, and, knowing he's not wanted, should step down honorably for the good of the College and the kids.[/quote]

" resources " is more realistic.
Andy

bethlehempard wrote:
This story from Nov. 3 indicates the contract wasn't extended:

https://lebanonsportsbuzz.com/?p=43963

Below:
If any thoughts of retirement have crept into Tavani’s head, he certainly is letting on about them. Let’s just say there’s a little more tread left on the tires.

“Everyone is starting to ask me that because I’m at the end of a contract,” said Tavani. “I have no desire or thoughts about that. Unless there’s someone who knows something I don’t.


Good find, bethp.  This "my kids graduate" thing from Frank kills me. I have never known someone who, once admitted to LC, didnt graduate if they wanted to. The AI takes care of that.  Now, getting A's and taking advantage of everything the college has to offer, that's another story. That takes work. BTW, he doesnt seem to realize he's presided over 7 straight losing seasons. "Cycles" he says.
Andy

Zeus - any chance you could explain the "football expenses" figure?  What is included in the number that puts us above almost all of the league while also surely funding fewer scholarships. (Assuming Lehigh and Colgate are at 60). Is the stadium funding (although donated) expensed annually?
pardfan

He's done us a favor.  The selfishness he has displayed "gets us off the hook" when it comes to statues or naming things after him.  Frank, you really blew it this time.  Adios, now...later...whenever.  You will be forgotten.
ed65

flyfisher wrote:
SixtyEighter wrote:
A BOT member advised me that Frank is going to be allowed to complete his contract because Lafayette doesn't eat coach's contracts. The BOT member is also incredulous that Frank is staying. This could only happen at Laughayette.


Exactly what I am saying. He knows he will get paid and LC doesn't have the philosophy to stop the bleeding.

One thing that amazes me is how he keeps going public saying he is staying around. Most coaches in this situation would keep their mouth shut. It seems the coach is telling the president when he will leave, and it will be on his terms.

That BOT member is a member of a group that is part of the problem. Byerly answers to them. She doesn't have their blessing to buy him out, and I got that from several of them. I believe the head of the BOT is a small lawyer from Norristown. No athletic support and has surrounded himself on the board with others of his belief. Look at the trustee on the committee. That should tell you something.

Pardon the IPad. It has a mind of its own tonight.


Fly: you are correct about the BOT Member - he is at best a country lawyer and at worst an ineffectual Board Chairman (Chairperson??!!!).   Maybe no one else wants the job.
flyfisher

ed65 wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
SixtyEighter wrote:
A BOT member advised me that Frank is going to be allowed to complete his contract because Lafayette doesn't eat coach's contracts. The BOT member is also incredulous that Frank is staying. This could only happen at Laughayette.


Exactly what I am saying. He knows he will get paid and LC doesn't have the philosophy to stop the bleeding.

One thing that amazes me is how he keeps going public saying he is staying around. Most coaches in this situation would keep their mouth shut. It seems the coach is telling the president when he will leave, and it will be on his terms.

That BOT member is a member of a group that is part of the problem. Byerly answers to them. She doesn't have their blessing to buy him out, and I got that from several of them. I believe the head of the BOT is a small lawyer from Norristown. No athletic support and has surrounded himself on the board with others of his belief. Look at the trustee on the committee. That should tell you something.

Pardon the IPad. It has a mind of its own tonight.


Fly: you are correct about the BOT Member - he is at best a country lawyer and at worst an ineffectual Board Chairman (Chairperson??!!!).   Maybe no one else wants the job.


he may be a great guy and nothing wrong with not being a wall Street lawyer. however l all this starts at the top. until the BoT make athletics a priority it will not be a priority for the college leadership, leadership being a loosely used term.  changes in coaching and athletic administration are bandaids to the longer term issues.

On a separate subject, I understand our BOT leader is not a significant financial supporter and has not made a significant contribution in several years. while I am not familiar with these type positions it appears large donations are required to get on these boards in most cases.
Jpao92

Our esteemed Chair of the BOT could not get a job at my firm much less an interview.  Charlie Hugel was a giant, this guy is the pizza boy in comparison.
LC Fan

The Chair of the BOT has overseen enormous positive changes at our College and according to every reputable source: faculty, students and alums, he is an outstanding leader. Under his guidance the trajectory of the school has never been better and much of that is due to the Chairs' consensus building leadership style. The fact that our athletic programs are an embarrassment and in shambles is not a result of anything the Chair has done. The problems have persisted for decades without adequate attention from anyone at the College: administration, trustees, alums, or students. To turn this fiasco around will require everyone's support and running down our Chair, besides being inaccurate and irrelevant, is not helpful to the effort.
Franks Tanks

LC Fan wrote:
The Chair of the BOT has overseen enormous positive changes at our College and according to every reputable source: faculty, students and alums, he is an outstanding leader. Under his guidance the trajectory of the school has never been better and much of that is due to the Chairs' consensus building leadership style. The fact that our athletic programs are an embarrassment and in shambles is not a result of anything the Chair has done. The problems have persisted for decades without adequate attention from anyone at the College: administration, trustees, alums, or students. To turn this fiasco around will require everyone's support and running down our Chair, besides being inaccurate and irrelevant, is not helpful to the effort.


Many students and alums care.  Something like 1/4 of our students are athletes, so a large portion of our students and parents have a vested interest.  Agree that Ed sins by omission rather than commission, but the guy has been on the board for like 20 years.  If he cared at all about athletics or Greek life he would've done something (anything) by now.
ed65

Franks Tanks wrote:
LC Fan wrote:
The Chair of the BOT has overseen enormous positive changes at our College and according to every reputable source: faculty, students and alums, he is an outstanding leader. Under his guidance the trajectory of the school has never been better and much of that is due to the Chairs' consensus building leadership style. The fact that our athletic programs are an embarrassment and in shambles is not a result of anything the Chair has done. The problems have persisted for decades without adequate attention from anyone at the College: administration, trustees, alums, or students. To turn this fiasco around will require everyone's support and running down our Chair, besides being inaccurate and irrelevant, is not helpful to the effort.


Many students and alums care.  Something like 1/4 of our students are athletes, so a large portion of our students and parents have a vested interest.  Agree that Ed sins by omission rather than commission, but the guy has been on the board for like 20 years.  If he cared at all about athletics or Greek life he would've done something (anything) by now.


The Chair does not care about athletics.  I don't think that comment is running him down.  I think it is a simple statement of fact.  I credit Alison for the positive direction of the college.  She cares about the future - the previous two Presidents did not.
NewXbo

LC Fan wrote:
The Chair of the BOT has overseen enormous positive changes at our College and according to every reputable source: faculty, students and alums, he is an outstanding leader. Under his guidance the trajectory of the school has never been better and much of that is due to the Chairs' consensus building leadership style. The fact that our athletic programs are an embarrassment and in shambles is not a result of anything the Chair has done. The problems have persisted for decades without adequate attention from anyone at the College: administration, trustees, alums, or students. To turn this fiasco around will require everyone's support and running down our Chair, besides being inaccurate and irrelevant, is not helpful to the effort.


Back in April 2014 you posted, "before we criticize Ms D"Orio, let's see how she manages this wasteland."     What's your conclusion?
Jpao92

I'll throw the "off topic" flag but I wholeheartedly disagree.  He oversaw the hiring of Dan Weiss, which alone could be the only sin needed to condemn his reign.  Worse yet, he openly defends that hiring as a great one. He also has overseen the deterioration of our school ranking, the degradation  of our engineering program (only recently reversed), the building of an arts campus in a flood zone that offers more low ROI majors.   I could go on.

Reasonable minds can differ but in this alums opinion the stature of the College has not improved in any measure.  Of course in the echo chamber that is College Hill they think that they are doing an amazing job.  If you don't believe them just ask anyone (on College Hill) and they will tell you what an amazing job they think that they are doing.

As for athletics, I believe that it is not a stand alone issue. It is a symptom of a larger problem.  You can't claim to be doing a great job if you are neglecting any aspect of the totality.  Athletics, like it or not is part of the public face of the College.  Funny how they seem to acknowledge that when they need athletics to announce their latest fundraiser or sell stuff (cough, have you bought your 150 game video yet?)
LC Fan

It's difficult to blame Ed for Dan Weiss who was hired before he became Chair but he certainly deserves credit for recruiting Alison and giving her the resources necessary to run a successful $400 million campaign.
Jpao92

When the College was searching for Dan's replacement Ed held a series of direct meetings with the alums.  He claimed credit for recruiting and hiring Weiss and said he would do it all over again.   His words.   He was met with some pointed and serious questions regarding the state of the College.  His overall demeanor in responding to those questions was somewhat impatient and defensive.  

Again, reasonable minds may differ but my opinion of him was formed by listening to his words and observing his actions.
[/code]
ed65

Jpao92 wrote:
When the College was searching for Dan's replacement Ed held a series of direct meetings with the alums.  He claimed credit for recruiting and hiring Weiss and said he would do it all over again.   His words.   He was met with some pointed and serious questions regarding the state of the College.  His overall demeanor in responding to those questions was somewhat impatient and defensive.  

Again, reasonable minds may differ but my opinion of him was formed by listening to his words and observing his actions.
[/code]


Well said jpao: Weiss was a disaster for the college.
SixtyEighter

Weiss was pretty much universally well accepted by the BOT. All the people I know on the Board have given me that indication.They all take the academics trumps sports balancing test.My sampling of the BOT is three members who served when Weiss was in office.They also take that approach about greek issues .
Lafalum

Weiss tried to cover his ass when the kid died while over drinking at a campus wide school sponsored event. He tried like hell to blame the fraternity system.He was not even on campus during the event and left a junior administrator in charge.

He was assisted and encouraged by the senior members of the BOT. Weiss also got close to 1  million dollars bonus after he announced he was leaving and going to Haverfored. By his own admission Ahart convinced him to stay another year making him eligible for the bonus. ( He said that in speech shortly after Weiss' announcement).
BPard

Andy wrote:
Well, if she doesn't care, why the heck hasn't the following conversation taken place:

"Hey, Alison, let's face it, like you I'm not knowledgeable regarding nor interested in athletics. Why not assign the department to someone who is? You know, for the good of Lafayette? And besides, I could then concentrate more fully on my LGBTQ agenda. Ok, pal?"

"Hmmm, ok, I must admit there's some logic to that.  I was gonna do a study, but..."
I expect some version of that conversation will take place through the consultant's work or as a result of the work.

Accountability and Excellence are clearly not a priority for the College right now. Exactly because academics are more important than athletics is why the Board, Faculty, and Administration should not tolerate the football coach telling students and alumni that he has tenure. What an insult to the faculty. I can't believe they are standing for this - especially during a tenure dispute that made national news. Does anyone know if faculty know that the Football Coach claims he has tenure? What is their reaction?

Do the Trustees you guys talk to know that Frank has been telling everyone the Board of Trustees granted him tenure? How could they vote to give him tenure? What a stupid decision.

Of course, if he doesn't actually have tenure, that is a pretty big challenge to the Board of Trustees' power. I thought the Board did not like people challenging their power and governance of the College, but I guess if it is from Frank, the Trustees accept it?
LeopardBall10

BPard wrote:
but I guess if it is from Frank, the Trustees accept it?


Well, it used to be that Frank was pompous and ignorant but he had the major donors on his side, backing him up. So no matter what he said or who he pissed off they kind of had to take it, because he was the one who secured the funding for the field and building. I think even the donors would admit to that.

Now that some of those people are starting to separate from the Tavani camp I wonder if there is any pushback after his post-rivalry comments. Because now he just seems angry and indignant for no reason other than self interest.
BillS

BPard wrote:
Andy wrote:
Well, if she doesn't care, why the heck hasn't the following conversation taken place:

"Hey, Alison, let's face it, like you I'm not knowledgeable regarding nor interested in athletics. Why not assign the department to someone who is? You know, for the good of Lafayette? And besides, I could then concentrate more fully on my LGBTQ agenda. Ok, pal?"

"Hmmm, ok, I must admit there's some logic to that.  I was gonna do a study, but..."
I expect some version of that conversation will take place through the consultant's work or as a result of the work.

Accountability and Excellence are clearly not a priority for the College right now. Exactly because academics are more important than athletics is why the Board, Faculty, and Administration should not tolerate the football coach telling students and alumni that he has tenure. What an insult to the faculty. I can't believe they are standing for this - especially during a tenure dispute that made national news. Does anyone know if faculty know that the Football Coach claims he has tenure? What is their reaction?

Do the Trustees you guys talk to know that Frank has been telling everyone the Board of Trustees granted him tenure? How could they vote to give him tenure? What a stupid decision.

Of course, if he doesn't actually have tenure, that is a pretty big challenge to the Board of Trustees' power. I thought the Board did not like people challenging their power and governance of the College, but I guess if it is from Frank, the Trustees accept it?
It's no secret that Frank has a big bully reputation with the Staff and Faculty and most try to ignore him I assume the same applies to some on the Board, I wouldn't want to be the one to say Frank your fired would you?
BackintheDay

In response to the recent comments about Frankie plus the added bonus of revived bashing Danny boy, here's my thoughts:

* Weiss was a favorite of the BoT because he was their front man for the anti-Sports and anti-Greek wars.  Whatever extra money he got plus the theater as a gift from the BoT resulted from him waging their wars on BoT terms and direction.  Weiss eventually tired of that role and moved on, check in hand, to another school of tradition. After he personally ruined a graduation at Haverford, he put his head hunter on speed dial and found his dream job of art lover.  Haverford wasn't as stupid as LC to beg him to stay; they were glad to see him go.

* Frankie's feelings got hurt with the Fan Forum campaign for him to retire after the Lehigh game, hoping another victory would let him go out with glory that a sub-500 career coach does not deserve. After he got his butt kicked (again), he reverted to his "tough guy" image and spouted off that he'll decide when he leaves and he has tenure, etc.

* The BoT and Allison have a real problem now.  They thought the "study" would give them cover to ride out the hate and discontent.  Clearly, the alumni (and probably the faculty) have other ideas.  Get rid of "Tough Guy" Frankie and start fixing the destruction he has wrought.

* Both Weiss and Tavani took every dime they could get from the college.

* Both of these "Heros" left the same legacy:  The majority of the alumni and faculty disapproved of them and were not impressed.  Both were considered pompous.

* Danny is an art lover who likely has no artistic talent of his own.  Tough guy Frank thinks he is mighty FB coach; unfortunately, he can't even draw up a play.  

* We can hope for change but Frank will be storming up and down the sidelines ranting at his assistants and players come Fall '17.  The alumni donations will be down but apparently they make up for the losses from other sources.

* We will see some new liberal arts majors before we see a return to glory in sports.
Jpao92

I have to ask.  It has been said that the BOT has focused on academics.  Where is the evidence that Lafayettes reputation or standing have improved?   For all their "focus" all I see is an expensive as all get out school with a middling ranking (well behind Bucknell and Colgate).  

To me, that is our Chair's legacy.
BackintheDay

But Applications are at an All - Time High!!! that's the metric they use.

And the legacies I was taking about were Danny's and Frankie's.  The BoT protects them.
Franks Tanks

BackintheDay wrote:
But Applications are at an All - Time High!!! that's the metric they use.

And the legacies I was taking about were Danny's and Frankie's.  The BoT protects them.


Why is the board protecting Frank?  Why do they have any fondness toward the guy?

He can't coach, and is teetering on the precipice of being an embarrassment for the college.  If they are worried about fundraising they shouldn't be.  Bring in a guy like John Loose who everybody loves, and rightfully so, and there will be no drop off.  Spend 5 minutes talking to John, and 5 with Frank, and tell me who would represent the college better.
BackintheDay

Hasn't there been dialogue on this thread or others that Bruce tells coaches they don't have to worried about being fired, the Oreo saying she does not think coaches should be fired and the BoT staying out of it altogether?  That's how they protect Frank.  

The point is the alums and Frank's big donors have to call the college/BoT and say Frank has worn out his welcome; time to make sure my money is better spent???!!!  

We both want the same thing; send the guy with a .136 winning % since 150 packing.
zenator

My understanding is that Frank continues to have the support of the team, but not Fein, who most regard as unqualified to be the OC--poor scheme, bad play calling etc.

There is considerable optimism for next year due in part to the return of 3 medical redshirt, seniors to augment next season's class of rising seniors, as well as strong rising sophmore and junior classes. Heard that 2 of the rising sophmores are likely to quit football and transfer elsewhere.

Have heard that recruiting is going well, but do not have any details.
Jpao92

I heard that last year and the year before and the year before and the year before and the year before and and and.

Sorry, the shelf life on failure and excuses has expired.   Blaming assistants is weak and shows poor leaderships.  The buck stops with the head coach.
BillS

zenator wrote:
My understanding is that Frank continues to have the support of the team, but not Fein, who most regard as unqualified to be the OC--poor scheme, bad play calling etc.

There is considerable optimism for next year due in part to the return of 3 medical redshirt, seniors to augment next season's class of rising seniors, as well as strong rising sophmore and junior classes. Heard that 2 of the rising sophmores are likely to quit football and transfer elsewhere.

Have heard that recruiting is going well, but do not have any details.
Haha another year for Frank and Staff are you kidding me! If Frank come back hopefully the Campaign fund drive doesn't reach its goal.
bethlehempard

I don't think they announce a capital campaign without lining up the big dollars in advance.
Yeah, next year ...
As for all the great classes in the pipeline, I admire your optimism.

Next year?

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time
SixtyEighter

I agree Bethlehem Pard. We are as bad that way as the old Brooklyn Dodger fans. I was thinking about it the other day but you captured it better than I.Wait until next year year after year which never comes.
njleopard

[quote="SixtyEighter:58115"]I agree Bethlehem Pard. We are as bad that way as the old Brooklyn Dodger fans. I was thinking about it the other day but you captured it better than I.Wait until next year year after year which never comes.[/quote]
Being this bad causes disinterest in the team, fewer people attending games and  unsold seats at the  lehigh game,which normally never happens.Even worse is alumni staying away from the campus and refraining from contributing.

Let's hope there is drastic change in the philosophy of Lafayette's AD from lets try to become good enough to compete in the league rather than being blown out vs.to trying to excel and win  few championships

Maybe winning will bring some $$$back to the college and give the current students something to cheeer.
flyfisher

Longer term I worry we are losing a generation of donors. Maybe not a generation but several years of kids with limited loyalty ties to the college other than their degree.
SIDELINER

flyfisher wrote:
Longer term I worry we are losing a generation of donors. Maybe not a generation but several years of kids with limited loyalty ties to the college other than their degree.

I think the younger generation will be less interested in loyalty anyway -- that's how it seems to be in all areas.

How about that Lehigh game yesterday. Do you think that, in one week's time, the Lehigh coaches went from great strategists to bumbles? Or, is it possible that playing without a couple of really talented players in the lineup mad a BIG difference in the outcome? I'm not saying Lehigh would have won with LB  Caslow and QB Shafnisky in the game and at full strength, but not having them was a big loss. LC suffered from that problem, too, big time.

Former Leopard Chris BROCKMAN played in NCAA D-2 playoffs. He led Colorado School of Mines in tackles for the year, as per REINHARD blog. He, too, would have been a big help if he had taken medical redshirt instead of graduating with his class.
BillS

SIDELINER wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
Longer term I worry we are losing a generation of donors. Maybe not a generation but several years of kids with limited loyalty ties to the college other than their degree.

I think the younger generation will be less interested in loyalty anyway -- that's how it seems to be in all areas.

How about that Lehigh game yesterday. Do you think that, in one week's time, the Lehigh coaches went from great strategists to bumbles? Or, is it possible that playing without a couple of really talented players in the lineup mad a BIG difference in the outcome? I'm not saying Lehigh would have won with LB  Caslow and QB Shafnisky in the game and at full strength, but not having them was a big loss. LC suffered from that problem, too, big time.

Former Leopard Chris BROCKMAN played in NCAA D-2 playoffs. He led Colorado School of Mines in tackles for the year, as per REINHARD blog. He, too, would have been a big help if he had taken medical redshirt instead of graduating with his class.
Paul I'm sure that played a part in Lehighs loss but not a big one ,as for us having a few extra player's wouldn't have made a difference, you can't win with poor coaching! It's time that this coaching staff is replaced!
Kpard

BillS wrote:
SIDELINER wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
Longer term I worry we are losing a generation of donors. Maybe not a generation but several years of kids with limited loyalty ties to the college other than their degree.

I think the younger generation will be less interested in loyalty anyway -- that's how it seems to be in all areas.

How about that Lehigh game yesterday. Do you think that, in one week's time, the Lehigh coaches went from great strategists to bumbles? Or, is it possible that playing without a couple of really talented players in the lineup mad a BIG difference in the outcome? I'm not saying Lehigh would have won with LB  Caslow and QB Shafnisky in the game and at full strength, but not having them was a big loss. LC suffered from that problem, too, big time.

Former Leopard Chris BROCKMAN played in NCAA D-2 playoffs. He led

Colorado School of Mines in tackles for the year, as per REINHARD blog. He, too, would have been a big help if he had taken medical redshirt instead of graduating with his class.
Paul I'm sure that played a part in Lehighs loss but not a big one ,as for us having a few extra player's wouldn't have made a difference, you can't win with poor coaching! It's time that this coaching staff is replaced!


Hear, hear!
Zeus

the double standard, particularly with recruiting is pretty funny.
The Maroon

We're losing league games by an average of 3 TD's. We aren't IN the game in the fourth quarter.
Can we stop blaming this on injuries? It's football.
Andy

We admit players Holy Cross can't.  We're 2-7 vs HC. What's the excuse there?  HC fans want their coach fired, he owns us.  Has another terrific QB coming in next year. Bucknell - 2-4, blown out this year. Excuse?

7 losing seasons in a row.  How about a little hope and change?  Our leadership should appreciate that.
BackintheDay

We are too far down the path blazed by Artie and Danny.  The Oreo and Alison can't fix that over night.  Look at our scorecard above; clearly athletic success is not on their initiatives or short term plan. For the time being, hope for lightning in a bottle and tolerant donors.
LeopardBall10

So, I have been thinking existentially about this question a lot over the last few days while watching the playoff games and the other FBS Rivalry games. Who did create the Frankasaurs? Are we deluding ourselves about what Lafayette really is?

Obviously we are all very passionate about the school, and we see the potential for what it could be athletically. But have we really looked at the data? Looking at just the "modern era" of football (1980-on) the Leopards have only finished with more than 7 wins 6 times. 6 really good teams in almost 40 years. We only have one coach with a career record above .500 (Russo .512) and to find a coach with a career record better than that you need to go all the way back to 1947 with the two years under Ivan Williamson  at .722.

Meanwhile at Lehigh you would need to go all the way back to 1965-75 to find a coach with a career record below .500 and 17 seasons with more than 7 wins since 1980.

Is it possible that we are all fans/members of those 6 good Lafayette teams and our experiences have colored our expectations of reality? Is that potential we see really there? Sorry to be so pessimistic this morning, this is just something I have been using as a thought exercise over the long weekend.
bethlehempard

My attitude toward the program is that being competitive over time is a reasonable goal for our small school. That means a 6-5 average record in football over a few years is acceptable and in MBB, 14-15 wins and a shot at making noise in the league tournament.
My thoughts date to the pre-scholarship era. After I realized that every core school except Lafayette has an NCAA/NIT/FCS win since 2000 and that other league schools always recruit better talent, my views have changed. We have gotten worse with scholarships. Football's futility speaks for itself. Lafayette is getting pushed around on the field, literally.
Basketball's inability to put together consecutive winning seasons in the 21st century is mind-boggling.
As for WBB .... Twilight Zone. All this in the very forgiving Patriot League.
In our two main sports, we are wasting quarter-million dollar free rides.
We need people who can bet on the right horses and get return on the investment.
PardDad71

Realism

LeopardBall10 wrote:
So, I have been thinking existentially about this question a lot over the last few days while watching the playoff games and the other FBS Rivalry games. Who did create the Frankasaurs? Are we deluding ourselves about what Lafayette really is?

Obviously we are all very passionate about the school, and we see the potential for what it could be athletically. But have we really looked at the data? Looking at just the "modern era" of football (1980-on) the Leopards have only finished with more than 7 wins 6 times. 6 really good teams in almost 40 years. We only have one coach with a career record above .500 (Russo .512) and to find a coach with a career record better than that you need to go all the way back to 1947 with the two years under Ivan Williamson  at .722.

Meanwhile you would need to go all the way back to 1965-75 to find a coach with a career record below .500 and 17 seasons with more than 7 wins since 1980.

Is it possible that we are all fans/members of those 6 good Lafayette teams and our experiences have colored our expectations of reality? Is that potential we see really there? Sorry to be so pessimistic this morning, this is just something I have been using as a thought exercise over the long weekend.




Your topic intrigued me.   I think it is on point.  Aspiring to winning championships or FCS Playoff games the end goal.   But you need to understand who you are, while making a plan to become who you want to be.

I don't comment on coaches or staffs.   I tried coaching football once, I stunk, so let's just say they are doing a better job than I could.   So I will stick to goals and plans.   First set your goals, then see if you have the right pieces and parts to meet those goals.

2 sets of of goals.  Operational (3 years) and Strategic (5+ years).   Operational has to be return to .500.   Records matter to recruits, and a softer OOC schedule in the short term could accomplish 3 things.  1) winning more games/targeting .500  2) fewer injuries early in the season  3) winning breeds confidence.   Second operational goal, .500 in conference.    Here we need to actually assess how we differentiate ourselves in the PL.   We have 1 major disadvantage and 1 other disadvantage.  Major, size of the school. Todays kids think bigger is better.   So LCs plan to grow will help some.   A lot of kids these days go to schools larger than LC.    Second disadvantage is breadth of major.   A lot has been written about this.  I think one easy fix is marketing.  We have a business major, its just no one knows about it.   Rename it.   Anyway, I am not writing on how to fix the size and the majors.  But we need to figure out how to compete and overcome our disadvantages.   This includes types of player to recruit, what type of systems to run, how to capitalize on our strengths.

If we can accomplish these 2 things in 3-4 years, then we can start talking about how do we become a leader in the PL.    As for competing in the FCS for Playoff wins?   Look, UNH and CAA (all the other conferences) allow redshirts.   When it comes to the line of scrimmage, that is a huge advantage.   It also makes STEM majors, double majors or minors/double minors much more feasible.   I personally know to be a STEM major and play football is much more demanding than other majors.  If PL really truly values the academic athlete, why not make all freshman redshirt let them focus on academics?

Sorry for the novel, I just do not believe in quick fixes.   I believe in 2 things.  Plan the work, and work the Plan, and That which gets measured, gets improved.
Franks Tanks

LeopardBall10 wrote:
So, I have been thinking existentially about this question a lot over the last few days while watching the playoff games and the other FBS Rivalry games. Who did create the Frankasaurs? Are we deluding ourselves about what Lafayette really is?

Obviously we are all very passionate about the school, and we see the potential for what it could be athletically. But have we really looked at the data? Looking at just the "modern era" of football (1980-on) the Leopards have only finished with more than 7 wins 6 times. 6 really good teams in almost 40 years. We only have one coach with a career record above .500 (Russo .512) and to find a coach with a career record better than that you need to go all the way back to 1947 with the two years under Ivan Williamson  at .722.

Meanwhile you would need to go all the way back to 1965-75 to find a coach with a career record below .500 and 17 seasons with more than 7 wins since 1980.

Is it possible that we are all fans/members of those 6 good Lafayette teams and our experiences have colored our expectations of reality? Is that potential we see really there? Sorry to be so pessimistic this morning, this is just something I have been using as a thought exercise over the long weekend.


Completely understand, but I don't think we've ever consistently tried to win.  In the 80's the school gave Bill the resources we need and he did pretty darn well.  As we got to the mid 90's or so I think support slipped and Bill no no longer had the fire.  I don't have to rehash the Tavani era, and Putnam was ancient history at this point and not really applicable to today.  

I think Lafayette Football would be just fine if we tried.  Wd have the facilities, brand and tradition to be successful.  We need a competent leader, a bit more $ for assistants and of course accountability.  At least with football I think we would be close with the right new leadership.

I don't think there is anything holding us back but ourselves.  We are competing in the Patriot League after all where no program is head and shoulders above others.  This isn't a Purdue in the Big 10 scenario where there is really no chance to compete consistently with schools with tons of money, better recruiting grounds, attendance tradition etc.  We aren't facing Penn State, Notre Dame and Michigan.  Just Bucknell and Holy Cross, we shouldn't be getting crushed.  

My point is in FCS we are more than capable of winning.  Just take a look at Charleston Southern.  This school has no money, no tradition, a crappy conference, a dreadful stadium and the school itself is pretty awful.  Yet they are winning because they have a really good coach.  We don't even need a really good one, just somewhat above average, and I truly believe football will be fine.  Unfortunately we may have to tolerate a few more years of this until we get a competent leader for the program.
bethlehempard

If there is no change, I'm done with home FB games.
The story of 2016 was "Five yards deep, two seconds late."
That might work with Barry Sanders but not with our running attack.
All this with a "run first" expert.
LeopardBall10

Franks Tanks wrote:


Completely understand, but I don't think we've ever consistently tried to win.

I don't think there is anything holding us back but ourselves.

My point is in FCS we are more than capable of winning.


I think these three statements kind of sum up my point. Apparently no, we never have consistently tried to win. The data shows that pretty plainly. We are what our record says we are and after over 100 years of football we are a 6-5 team.

And I also agree with your idea that we are capable of more, and the only thing holding us back is ourselves, whether that is $$ for coaches or accountability or expectations. But do we really have any valid reasons to expect different? Granted, the last few years have been below even that low bar set by the Lafayette football teams of the past. But why should we expect them to preform any better than we have? We became fans of a middling, under preforming program. Maybe that's just what we have to deal with.
Franks Tanks

LeopardBall10 wrote:
Franks Tanks wrote:


Completely understand, but I don't think we've ever consistently tried to win.

I don't think there is anything holding us back but ourselves.

My point is in FCS we are more than capable of winning.


I think these three statements kind of sum up my point. Apparently no, we never have consistently tried to win. The data shows that pretty plainly. We are what our record says we are and after over 100 years of football we are a 6-5 team.

And I also agree with your idea that we are capable of more, and the only thing holding us back is ourselves, whether that is $$ for coaches or accountability or expectations. But do we really have any valid reasons to expect different? Granted, the last few years have been below even that low bar set by the Lafayette football teams of the past. But why should we expect them to preform any better than we have? We became fans of a middling, under preforming program. Maybe that's just what we have to deal with.


Agree again with you asssment.  Speaking just about football, we can make some rather easy and obvious changes and improve right away.  Not sure how much we can improve, but we will see progress.  If leadership continues to do nothing about the current situation it is clear they don't care, and it will be very hard to convince the rest of us to care.  Very sad that the program has been allowed to wither in this manner.
Lafalum

Franks Tanks wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
Franks Tanks wrote:


Completely understand, but I don't think we've ever consistently tried to win.

I don't think there is anything holding us back but ourselves.

My point is in FCS we are more than capable of winning.


I think these three statements kind of sum up my point. Apparently no, we never have consistently tried to win. The data shows that pretty plainly. We are what our record says we are and after over 100 years of football we are a 6-5 team.

And I also agree with your idea that we are capable of more, and the only thing holding us back is ourselves, whether that is $$ for coaches or accountability or expectations. But do we really have any valid reasons to expect different? Granted, the last few years have been below even that low bar set by the Lafayette football teams of the past. But why should we expect them to preform any better than we have? We became fans of a middling, under preforming program. Maybe that's just what we have to deal with.


Agree again with you asssment.  Speaking just about football, we can make some rather easy and obvious changes and improve right away.  Not sure how much we can improve, but we will see progress.  If leadership continues to do nothing about the current situation it is clear they don't care, and it will be very hard to convince the rest of us to care.  Very sad that the program has been allowed to wither in this manner.


I know you guys realize it, but it bears repeating, this is a department wide problem. The money needed is minor, there are scholarships, and facilities are fine. We need a new mission statement that includes the word "WIN" in it. If the "study" has anything less we are stuck and will have blown a six figure fee.

It's amazing to me that we have to pay someone to tell us what we know or should know!!
LeopardBall10

Lafalum wrote:
It's amazing to me that we have to pay someone to tell us what we know or should know!!


I guess that's what I'm saying. Why are any of us surprised. And I'm not trying to be cute here, but seriously asking the question. If we have a program record of just over .500 and fewer than 10 truly good teams in the last 40 years you could make an argument that it is a blatant decision by the school not to be good at football. Especially when there is a pretty good plan being followed just down the road at our rival institution.

I don't have time to check the similar program records and coaches stats for the rest of the athletic department but I would posture a hypothesis that there would be more of the same. Being good at sports is no secret formula. Lafayette has just made the conscious decision not to apply that formula.

We can only hope that the current president is trying to counter that history and the hiring of the consultant is her method for "rethinking" the current decision making process for the college.

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