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The Maroon

Grentz GONE

I heard there were issues behind the scenes.

I didn't believe them.

I do now.

Thoughts?
The Maroon

Ah how the times have changed...

http://community.lafayette.edu/be...04/22/recipe-for-hiring-a-legend/
carney2

Let's hope that the powers that be learned their lesson with the recent football hiring and do another "professional" job to fill this position.
Lafalum

This is stunning news. It may point to a dust up between Bruce and Grentz. There is a rumor that this comes directly from Byerly... which should not be good for Bruce or Annette.
In any case, finding a competent replacement will be expensive given our history!!
bison137

Lafalum wrote:
This is stunning news. It may point to a dust up between Bruce and Grentz. There is a rumor that this comes directly from Byerly... which should not be good for Bruce or Annette.
In any case, finding a competent replacement will be expensive given our history!!



Any idea how many years left on her contract?   Based on the Equity in Athletics numbers, it appears that she is the highest-paid women's coach in the PL by a good margin.   May make it difficult to pay a lot for her replacement - unless she was convinced to resign or fired for cause.   I doubt verbal abuse of players would rise to that level.
BillS

bison137 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
This is stunning news. It may point to a dust up between Bruce and Grentz. There is a rumor that this comes directly from Byerly... which should not be good for Bruce or Annette.
In any case, finding a competent replacement will be expensive given our history!!



Any idea how many years left on her contract?   Based on the Equity in Athletics numbers, it appears that she is the highest-paid women's coach in the PL by a good margin.   May make it difficult to pay a lot for her replacement - unless she was convinced to resign or fired for cause.   I doubt verbal abuse of players would rise to that level.
Wow is Fran the next to go?
pards123

Needs to be Fran then Bruce
bethlehempard

The absurdity of Lafayette sports knows no bounds. None. Sheer lunacy and the return on investment of a cannabis penny stock: zero.

The options:

1-Bring Back Tammy! She won some games and made a playoff run. Based on MBB's success she too should have been Coach for Life. Considering what has ensued since, I've learned to appreciate her.

2-Fold the program.

3-Hire former Lehigh MBB Coach David Duke.

Before the next home WBB game everybody should get stoned on the Quad. I will bring some Pakistani Double Zero.

Are you with me!
Kpard

Perhaps the climate is changing?
gopards

I was at the lacrosse game today. At halftime i went in to Kirby and Grentz,Ross James,and Kristen Foley were cleaning out there offices and puting things into cars and moving vans they were taking everything desks,chairs, even the photocopier.
Ransom Stoddard

Re: Grentz GONE

The Maroon wrote:
I heard there were issues behind the scenes.

I didn't believe them.

I do now.

Thoughts?


You should believe them.  I know some on this board believed that it was all about disgruntled players and their parents complaining about playing time and a bunch of petty b.s. against a "tough" coach.  It wasn't.  It was much more than that.  No one is celebrating.  It's sad that it came to this.  But it was the right move by the school and should be applauded.  She brought this on herself.  Calls to eliminate the program are misguided and would only punish the kids who, in good faith, committed themselves to the program.  This program can be fixed and should be fixed.  Let's pray that the leadership in the athletic department and the school administration make it a priority to take the steps that will give this program the best chance to move in a positive direction and ultimately succeed.
bethlehempard

Been there, heard that, it's all bull. Decades of ineptitude are the fact.
College sports are supposed to serve the greater good of the institution.
Unfortunately Lafayette has perverted that simple and self-evident goal.
Some sports serve their inept coaches. Others serve to make the school a laughingstock.
Other league teams fell sorry for us! They ease up.
It's time for tough choices not buzzwords.
Take a step back and look at what has been going on all these years. The college community has been bamboozled by bad coaches and bad teams and quarter-million dollar busts.
Stop the madness.

Don't stop with Grentz. Fire another dozen or cut sports.
Is anybody awake out there?

Imagine the chatter among the coddled coaches.
"What, they're firing for incompetence now?"

Disgrace across the board.
bison137

Re: Grentz GONE

Ransom Stoddard wrote:
Calls to eliminate the program are misguided and would only punish the kids who, in good faith, committed themselves to the program.



I am fairly sure any calls to eliminate the program are just people venting.   In any event, the reality is that Patriot League rules require that all members have a D1 basketball team (men and women).   LC would have to leave the PL to get rid of basketball, and that is not happening.
Leopard Loyalist

Wasn't Grentz on the athletic self-study committee? Not that it matters any more, of course.
The Maroon

Re: Grentz GONE

Ransom Stoddard wrote:
The Maroon wrote:
I heard there were issues behind the scenes.

I didn't believe them.

I do now.

Thoughts?


You should believe them.  I know some on this board believed that it was all about disgruntled players and their parents complaining about playing time and a bunch of petty b.s. against a "tough" coach.  It wasn't.  It was much more than that.  No one is celebrating.  It's sad that it came to this.  But it was the right move by the school and should be applauded.  She brought this on herself.  Calls to eliminate the program are misguided and would only punish the kids who, in good faith, committed themselves to the program.  This program can be fixed and should be fixed.  Let's pray that the leadership in the athletic department and the school administration make it a priority to take the steps that will give this program the best chance to move in a positive direction and ultimately succeed.


Yeah - the small amount of insight I had points to this being a mess...Bruce should be on the hook for this one though. It will be interesting to see who they find to steady the ship.
Lafalum

Leopard Loyalist wrote:
Wasn't Grentz on the athletic self-study committee? Not that it matters any more, of course.


I forgot about that. Actually it does matter because it shows that as late as last fall the AD had faith in her!? This demonstrates what really needs to be done. The ball is now in Byerly's court and if she doesn't act it's a reflection of her management abilities! It's now time...act Madam President!!
The Maroon

Leopard Loyalist wrote:
Wasn't Grentz on the athletic self-study committee? Not that it matters any more, of course.


Oh yeah - it was a big love-in with Theresa Grentz with Bruce leading the group hugs! Make no mistake - this wasn't about W/L record (as bad as it was) - and if the school is on the hook for a lot of money to honor her contract that should fall on Bruce as well. The behaviors that led to this were part of a pattern. She wasn't a good fit for Lafayette - that's all on the AD.
SixtyEighter

There must have been a precipitating event but regardless of the reason(s) this demonstrates further the chaotic conditions in Kirby .Tavani wasn't fired until he shot his mouth off in that tirade in the newspaper. There is tolerance of losing and besides it would have been fair to give her 1 more year to bring in more of her own players and demonstate progress.Her methods this past season were certainly questionable but she appeared to have a plan. Her recruits showed promise. I hope we don't lose many.The program is shaky enough without more backsliding. It is and has been the worst in the league for an extended period.I think there was a precipitous event because  it would have made more sense to fire her at the end of the season rather than a month later.Then again who says good sense was a factor given the recent history of the Athletic Department. The overall record speaks for it self.This program in particular hasn't been competently run since Pat Fisher retired.We can only hope that "the study" isn't used as a a fig leaf.
Lafalum

This raises the stakes for the study. A "fig leaf" conclusion will only make matters worse. Athletic donations are down, expenses will be up paying off old coaching contracts. The time is now upon Byerly to act.
Bogus Megapardus

This is a truly a shame because I had high hopes for the team under Grentz when she was hired.

I don't know the specifics of any "issues" regarding Grentz (other than an unacceptable W/L record) but I don't think speculation about any non-performance issues is worth discussing here. It would probably just make a difficult situation even worse.
pardfan

I'm worried now that four firings (FT, TG, and hopefully FOH and Bruce) in one year--however essential--might be too macho for this institution.
 Let me assure Markle-ites, FT and TG only scratch the surface.  The real problems are still there to poison the water.
Finish the job.


Winning Matters.
Lafalum

pardfan wrote:
I'm worried now that four firings (FT, TG, and hopefully FOH and Bruce) in one year--however essential--might be too macho for this institution.
 Let me assure Markle-ites, FT and TG only scratch the surface.  The real problems are still there to poison the water.
Finish the job.


Winning Matters.


This, by default is in the hands of the top floor of Markle, as many of us have been saying. She must deal with it...now. We need a new breath of fresh air not an insider...clean sweep!

Look at what was done at Holy Cross and Colgate....new outside hire at the AD positions and firing of non-productive coaches.( Lost in all this was firing of FH and WBB coach at Colgate).

This is FAR more important than a non tenure fight over a Spanish Teacher.
Lafalum

I am hearing that lawyers were involved that were hired by several parents and also the consultant report has now been delayed for at least one month!
Ransom Stoddard

Lafalum wrote:
I am hearing that lawyers were involved that were hired by several parents and also the consultant report has now been delayed for at least one month!


Lawyers were hired by the school to conduct an investigation.  The parents did not hire lawyers.
bethlehempard

Lafayette sports are their lowest point since the first study.
It's time to clean house, cut sports and set goals.
Unfortunately the hopes of longtime fans now rest on Coach Garrett. That's an unfair burden but what else is promising?
Please Lafayette, clear out the deadwood losing coaches for life and cut some programs. If we can't compete and the investment to compete is too much (there is more to Lafayette than sports), make hard choices, bang a few heads and yes break some hearts.
Going on in this pathetic spineless pride-free way would be worse.
2017: No Excuses.
Repeat: No Excuses.

The numbers don't add up to support this many sports. Assume the college grows to 3,000 students. A $100 sports fee is assessed per student (ignore the protests that would ensue).
Assume that fee would be paid by 2,500 students and raise $250,000. That's not even four annual scholarships.
Lafalum

bethlehempard wrote:
Lafayette sports are their lowest point since the first study.
It's time to clean house, cut sports and set goals.
Unfortunately the hopes of longtime fans now rest on Coach Garrett. That's an unfair burden but what else is promising?
Please Lafayette, clear out the deadwood losing coaches for life and cut some programs. If we can't compete and the investment to compete is too much (there is more to Lafayette than sports), make hard choices, bang a few heads and yes break some hearts.
Going on in this pathetic spineless pride-free way would be worse.
2017: No Excuses.
Repeat: No Excuses.

The numbers don't add up to support this many sports. Assume the college grows to 3,000 students. A $100 sports fee is assessed per student (ignore the protests that would ensue).
Assume that fee would be paid by 2,500 students and raise $250,000. That's not even four annual scholarships.



You must have 16 sports and you must balance for Title IX. If you want to preserve Lafayette/Lehigh football you have to reconfigure support and accept the unacceptable for some sports. So what sports do you cut and does that result in significant savings? It's really not the money in the end. It's how do you manage what you have and giving support to those sports you want to succeed in.
Task number one the AD MUST report to the president.
Kpard

The days of Lafayette being a destination coaching position must end unless there are results on the field. Agreed we have way to many sports to compete at a D1 level. The school needs to strive for excellence in all ways.
PardDad71

bethlehempard wrote:
Lafayette sports are their lowest point since the first study.
It's time to clean house, cut sports and set goals.
Unfortunately the hopes of longtime fans now rest on Coach Garrett. That's an unfair burden but what else is promising?
Please Lafayette, clear out the deadwood losing coaches for life and cut some programs. If we can't compete and the investment to compete is too much (there is more to Lafayette than sports), make hard choices, bang a few heads and yes break some hearts.
Going on in this pathetic spineless pride-free way would be worse.
2017: No Excuses.
Repeat: No Excuses.

The numbers don't add up to support this many sports. Assume the college grows to 3,000 students. A $100 sports fee is assessed per student (ignore the protests that would ensue).
Assume that fee would be paid by 2,500 students and raise $250,000. That's not even four annual scholarships.



I still question your insistence that we must cut sports.   Assuming that there is truly a budget crisis - ignoring an endowment of $1B.   ALL operations need to be evaluated not just athletics.   We have an operating budget of about $150M.  how much needs to be cut?  what does activity  it bring in each year?  when cutting that expense, do we impact future giving?
bison137

Lafalum wrote:


Look at what was done at Holy Cross and Colgate....new outside hire at the AD positions and firing of non-productive coaches.( Lost in all this was firing of FH and WBB coach at Colgate).




Yes, the AD's at HC and CU seem to be an improvement.  And the HC AD is definitely an "outside hire".   However Vicky Chun at Colgate is the ultimate inside hire - more than if LC hired  FOH as  their new AD. She spent seven years at Colgate getting her BA and MA.   Then she coached there.  Then after a few years away, she spent the next eight years at CU as assistant AD, associate AD, senior associate AD before getting the top job.  As for firing the WBB coach, Chun gave her three more non-productive years after taking over as AD.  Didn't make a change until the coach's contract ran out. And she gave the FH coach four more horrible years before finally pulling the plug.   Even an 0-15 season in 2015 wasn't enough to bring about a change.  

Considering that Colgate has a large number of scholarships in a lot of sports, their performance in PL sports other than football has been fairly mediocre.   They spend a lot more than LC, HC, AU, Loyola, and Bucknell when it comes to athletic aid.   Not saying she was a bad hire, just that she is definitely not an insider and it is too soon to tell how much improvement she will bring to the CU program.
Marooner

Has any more information (not rumor) come out about this? Or will this just be stuck as "one of those things" where a few people know what happened and a lot more people just know what they heard?

I'd imagine, unless there is a lawsuit that causes statements and documents become public, there will be very little on this matter that can considered FACT unless somebody knows an insider personally.
Spardicus80

Bison, your thoughts on Colgate are well taken, but the figures are skewed and not a totally valid comparison because Colgate plays ice hockey on the Div 1 level, and ice hockey is a revenue generating sport.  It would stand to reason that Colgate would then also spend more on athletics.
bison137

Spardicus80 wrote:
Bison, your thoughts on Colgate are well taken, but the figures are skewed and not a totally valid comparison because Colgate plays ice hockey on the Div 1 level, and ice hockey is a revenue generating sport.  It would stand to reason that Colgate would then also spend more on athletics.



Yes, I know about the expenditures for hockey - but I was only talking about PL sports.    In most PL sports other  than football and basketball, they generally spend a lot more than LC, HC, American, Loyola (called LU below), and Bucknell (called BU below).  

They spend:

-  A lot more than LC, HC, AU, LU, and BU in women's soccer.
- A lot more than BU in men's soccer. About the same as the others.
- A lot more than LC, HC, and BU in men's lacrosse.
- A lot more than  HC, BU, and AU in women's lacrosse. (About the same as LC)
- A lot more than HC and LC in volleyball.  (About the same as BU)
-  A lot more than HC and LC in softball.  (Similar to BU)
- A lot more than HC and LC in swimming.
- A lot more than HC and LC in tennis.  Slightly more than BU.
bethlehempard

Lots of money wasted and the faculty has taken note.
Bogus Megapardus

bethlehempard wrote:
Lots of money wasted and the faculty has taken note.


If the faculty does not like it, perhaps they might choose to profess at a lesser institution that does not compete at the Division I level.
bethlehempard

The D1 versus D3 distinction means nothing to much of the faculty, who would be quite happy at Tufts or Swarthmore or Colby or the like. Some of them probably don't even know what FCS means.
Much of the faculty has zero interest in the sports program, as has long been the case, and they would of be inclined to oppose more spending. There is a feeling that Lafayette occupies a meaningless niche in the sports world.
I was hearing about Lafayette internal politics earlier this week and it was sobering. Not that Lafayette is unique in that way, but sobering all the same.
An engaged faculty can be a powerful thing but the last time I can recall Lafayette professors poking their heads out of the labs was 30 years ago for that Kirkpatrick thing.
My colleagues from the U.K. Contend that academic politics here are knock-kneed and excessively polite.
Anyway, early dinner at Sette Luna, now enjoying coffee and a subdued band at the Public Market.
seenalot

Faculty needs to start understanding who they work for - its not the other way around.  Crazy approach to a business.
bethlehempard

Coaches need to understand who they work for even more so. The faculty is essential to the real mission of Lafayette and they are competent. Many of the coaches are neither.
I believe not one coach has a winning career record: full-funded, reasonably funded or unfunded? Yet the programs continue to serve our coddled losers and the paychecks keep coming.  
What a pathetic mess sports are here. I'm starting to think Rothkopf was right.
When Grentz was hired, I noted that if she couldn't win in WBB, nobody could.
WBB, I'm done pretending this is a program.
Fold it. PL rules be damned; we've seen how much respect for the rules Fordham and Holy Cross showed when their goals diverged from the league vision.
Anyway, my apologies for digressions, I'm done with WBB.
This situation is just un-f'n-believeable.
Ransom Stoddard

bethlehempard wrote:
Coaches need to understand who they
When Grentz was hired, I noted that if she couldn't win in WBB, nobody could.


Your logic is flawed in that it assumes that Grentz was some sort of panacea, able to cure all issues with the program.  She was not.  In fact, she was the opposite.  She was poison to the program.  Hall of Fame coach my ass.  The program can and will be better with a higher quality individual at the helm.
bethlehempard

I see. So we can consider the WBB problem solved?
Hire the right person? Dadgummit, why didn't I think of that?
Next week, we tackle world hunger.
Ransom Stoddard

bethlehempard wrote:
I see. So we can consider the WBB problem solved?


Ha.  No.  The program is at an all time low right now.  The administration needs to hire someone who can repair the damage done by Grentz and build the program into a competitive group of student - athletes.  I don't think hiring an established coach is the right move - I'd rather see a young, fresh face and give him or her a chance.  We are a long way from the program being in anywhere near to decent shape.  I fear the damage done by Grentz will take multiple years to fix.
bethlehempard

Two decades of futility is enough. The program was about as low when Grentz arrived and when her two predecessors arrived.
Good luck. I'm done with it.
bison137

Ransom Stoddard wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
I see. So we can consider the WBB problem solved?


Ha.  No.  The program is at an all time low right now.  The administration needs to hire someone who can repair the damage done by Grentz and build the program into a competitive group of student - athletes.  I don't think hiring an established coach is the right move - I'd rather see a young, fresh face and give him or her a chance.  We are a long way from the program being in anywhere near to decent shape.  I fear the damage done by Grentz will take multiple years to fix.



Agree 100% about hiring a young coach, presumably someone who has had success at D3.   Bucknell in 2012 was at almost as low a point as LC is now.  Had just fired a long-tenured coach in the middle of the season for cause.  Player morale at an all-time low.   Had a 23-63 record over the previous three years, including 5-25 in 2011-12.    Then hired a young coach from the University of Chicago, Aaron Roussell.   He managed to sell a vision of a revitalized program to some very good recruits and turned the program around almost overnight.    The last two years they have gone 33-3 in PL play.    LC will be a tougher turnaround, but hiring a third aging coach who has been fired from her previous job is definitely not the answer.
Ransom Stoddard

bison137 wrote:
Ransom Stoddard wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
I see. So we can consider the WBB problem solved?


Ha.  No.  The program is at an all time low right now.  The administration needs to hire someone who can repair the damage done by Grentz and build the program into a competitive group of student - athletes.  I don't think hiring an established coach is the right move - I'd rather see a young, fresh face and give him or her a chance.  We are a long way from the program being in anywhere near to decent shape.  I fear the damage done by Grentz will take multiple years to fix.



Agree 100% about hiring a young coach, presumably someone who has had success at D3.   Bucknell in 2012 was at almost as low a point as LC is now.  Had just fired a long-tenured coach in the middle of the season for cause.  Player morale at an all-time low.   Had a 23-63 record over the previous three years, including 5-25 in 2011-12.    Then hired a young coach from the University of Chicago, Aaron Roussell.   He managed to sell a vision of a revitalized program to some very good recruits and turned the program around almost overnight.    The last two years they have gone 33-3 in PL play.    LC will be a tougher turnaround, but hiring a third aging coach who has been fired from her previous job is definitely not the answer.


I am going to contact Bruce and propose that the regular contributors on this board form a committee, or "college of coaches" ala what the Cubs tried in 1961 (see link below), to coach the team.  We'll do it for free.  It can't be any worse than the last couple of coaches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_of_Coaches
bison137

Apologies if this has been posted previously.

I see that the LC search firm (Snodgrass Partners) will be soliciting candidates for another 8 days.

https://careers.insidehighered.co...04/head-women-s-basketball-coach/


Presume this means that the position won't be filled until the second half of May.    They recently missed a 5-day and a 3-day evaluation period - but there is now a long period before the next one.    Curious as to whether all of the assistants are still under contract and would have been out recruiting during these two periods.
justasoldier

So we have waited until April 28th to post the position? And, applications must be submitted by May 8?
LC Local Fan

I'm aware of a candidate who has a second interview scheduled. I don't know if that interview has happen yet.
ed65

bison137 wrote:
Apologies if this has been posted previously.

I see that the LC search firm (Snodgrass Partners) will be soliciting candidates for another 8 days.

https://careers.insidehighered.co...04/head-women-s-basketball-coach/


Presume this means that the position won't be filled until the second half of May.    They recently missed a 5-day and a 3-day evaluation period - but there is now a long period before the next one.    Curious as to whether all of the assistants are still under contract and would have been out recruiting during these two periods.


Bison makes a good point about the assistants and whether they are recruiting.
Marooner

The next coach is (hopefully) a five-year commitment at minimum. If that means mortgaging a 2017-18 season in which .500 would be one of the best case scenarios, then unfortunately I think we need to do that and take our time to find the right candidate.

Though, for all I know, the assistant coaches are killing it on the recruiting trail and a new head coach is all but hired. Fingers crossed.
SixtyEighter

Six more days to get your application in.
BillS

Marooner wrote:
The next coach is (hopefully) a five-year commitment at minimum. If that means mortgaging a 2017-18 season in which .500 would be one of the best case scenarios, then unfortunately I think we need to do that and take our time to find the right candidate.

Though, for all I know, the assistant coaches are killing it on the recruiting trail and a new head coach is all but hired. Fingers crossed.
We signed 3 recruits in November and have 13 scholarship players rostered for 17/18.
Marooner

BillS wrote:
Marooner wrote:
The next coach is (hopefully) a five-year commitment at minimum. If that means mortgaging a 2017-18 season in which .500 would be one of the best case scenarios, then unfortunately I think we need to do that and take our time to find the right candidate.

Though, for all I know, the assistant coaches are killing it on the recruiting trail and a new head coach is all but hired. Fingers crossed.
We signed 3 recruits in November and have 13 scholarship players rostered for 17/18.

Good to know. Thanks for the info.
adcs2

Snodgrass Partners may be the next great thing, but are relatively new to the business of sports-related coaching searches.  Started out as a traditional executive search firm and started to dabble in sports (mainly tennis) in 2016.

Interesting choice by Bruce to lead a basketball search but who knows, maybe they will unearth a gem.
bison137

BillS wrote:
Marooner wrote:
The next coach is (hopefully) a five-year commitment at minimum. If that means mortgaging a 2017-18 season in which .500 would be one of the best case scenarios, then unfortunately I think we need to do that and take our time to find the right candidate.

Though, for all I know, the assistant coaches are killing it on the recruiting trail and a new head coach is all but hired. Fingers crossed.


We signed 3 recruits in November and have 13 scholarship players rostered for 17/18.



Yes, but everyone is now recruiting for the 2018-19 players.   Has to be a bit of a disadvantage to go through two scouting periods without a head coach on board.    Most teams have already put out a number of offers for this class, which LC cannot really do at the moment.
bethlehempard

Grentz speaks. Not directly about Lafayette but ... ?

From Twitter

Theresa Grentz @TheresaGrentz12
What a  true statement, especially if the kid is not as good as they or their parents think they are...
Coach Mac @BballCoachMac
Embedded
Coaches:

Are players today less coachable than they used to be?
Kids today don't know the difference between instruction and criticism.

End of tweet

From https://mobile.twitter.com/TheresaGrentz12
Ransom Stoddard

bethlehempard wrote:
Grentz speaks. Not directly about Lafayette but ... ?

From Twitter

Theresa Grentz @TheresaGrentz12
What a  true statement, especially if the kid is not as good as they or their parents think they are...
Coach Mac @BballCoachMac
Embedded
Coaches:

Are players today less coachable than they used to be?
Kids today don't know the difference between instruction and criticism.

End of tweet

From https://mobile.twitter.com/TheresaGrentz12


If you knew what she did to get herself fired, you'd know how laughable that is if that Tweet was an arrow aimed at her former Lafayette players.
Andy

PG/SG Paige Saylor going elsewhere due to coaching change.
The Maroon

Andy wrote:
PG/SG Paige Saylor going elsewhere due to coaching change.


OUCH!  Shocked  Shocked  Sad  Sad
The Maroon

If you knew what she did to get herself fired, you'd know how laughable that is if that Tweet was an arrow aimed at her former Lafayette players.
Quote:


Hopefully whatever the hell she did was enough to terminate her contract. Or are we paying her to stay home too?

If we are - Bruce's budget for a replacement may not extend beyond hiring Easton's JV coach.

SixtyEighter

Application period closed. Decision to be forthcoming.For the sake of the women on the team it better be someone of the Garret caliber.This program is in need of major overhaul.Instead of getting better it gets worse.
The Maroon

Still bummed we lost the PG recruit. Doesn't make sense.  

Maybe it does...I just can't stand the idea of watching us play without a true PG for another year - although I guess there are some options on the roster.
justasoldier

[quote="The Maroon:61549"]Still bummed we lost the PG recruit. Doesn't make sense.  



I've been away for a few days and haven't seen any statistics on this player. You seem to be familiar with her, can you post her statistics and/or her high schools record?
Andy

Named to the IBCA "Supreme 15" AS team.

Stats: http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/p...rsport/girls-basketball-stats.htm
The Maroon

Andy wrote:
Named to the IBCA "Supreme 15" AS team.

Stats: http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/p...rsport/girls-basketball-stats.htm


6 assists/game is good most everywhere - certainly for a  hs player.

Hopefully we'll have an exciting charismatic coach who can win her back.
The Maroon

She's been gone 6 weeks now. I'll admit I don't know how long these things take but maybe the quick turnaround in football made me greedy.

I realize getting it right is vital - I'm just wondering what a reasonable expectation might be.
bison137

The Maroon wrote:
She's been gone 6 weeks now. I'll admit I don't know how long these things take but maybe the quick turnaround in football made me greedy.

I realize getting it right is vital - I'm just wondering what a reasonable expectation might be.



It's hard to define "reasonable" - but six weeks is very long.   Once they missed the two April evaluation periods, it became somewhat less essential to get a new coach on board quickly.   However, all of May is a "quiet period", where it is permissible to contact players via email, text, phone, etc and where it is permissible for players to visit coaches on unofficial visits.   Just can't go on the road.
bison137

bison137 wrote:
The Maroon wrote:
She's been gone 6 weeks now. I'll admit I don't know how long these things take but maybe the quick turnaround in football made me greedy.

I realize getting it right is vital - I'm just wondering what a reasonable expectation might be.



It's hard to define "reasonable" - but six weeks is very long.   Once they missed the two April evaluation periods, it became somewhat less essential to get a new coach on board quickly.   However, all of May is a "quiet period", where it is permissible to contact players via email, text, phone, etc and where it is permissible for players to visit coaches on unofficial visits.   Just can't go on the road.



Looking back at two similar situations in PL women's basketball:

1.  Boston U's Kelly Greenberg "resigned" 4/23/14 amidst an investigation into allegations on player abuse.   They hired the new coach, Katy Steding, on 6/25/14.   That's a very long process, but I don't think Boston cares much about women's basketball.

2.  American's Shann Hart "resigned" on 3/26/04 amidst accusations of player abuse.   Her replacement was hired on 5/6/04.   Hart ended up being fired from her next job for player abuse as well.    The AU process took 41 days.   LC is up to 43 days now.


And a few others:

1. Dianne Nolan "resigned" on 3.26/15.   Grentz was hire on 4/20/15.   That's 25 days fwiw.    

2.  Also Tammy Smith was fired on 3/8/10.  Nolan was hired on 4/19/10.    That's 42 days.

3.  Colgate's Nikki Hays Fort was let go on 3/10/16.   Her replacement, Bill Cleary, was hired on 3/29/16.   A 19-day turnaround.
Andy

The Maroon wrote:
She's been gone 6 weeks now. I'll admit I don't know how long these things take but maybe the quick turnaround in football made me greedy.

I realize getting it right is vital - I'm just wondering what a reasonable expectation might be.


Was this reported on our board?:


Lafayette Dirt…

   15 Apr 2015 Dirt

I have heard from an excellent source that there were 4-5 finalists to replace recently retired Dianne Nolan at Lafayette. From what I have heard, it appears the leader right now is Lafayette men’s assistant John O’Connor. The former head coach at Holy Family (PA) has been at Lafayette since 2012. He also worked at Lafayette from 2001-04 before landing on Paul Hewitt’s staff at Georgia Tech where he spent six seasons. It sounds like this search will wrap up shortly.////

Would they now????

https://whoopdirt.com/lafayette-dirt/
seenalot

Cant imagine it - have to have some experience coaching women's game and I don't think he did.   Besides that big blemish on resume his hard to get past for hiring committee at school like LC.
justasoldier

Andy wrote:
The Maroon wrote:
She's been gone 6 weeks now. I'll admit I don't know how long these things take but maybe the quick turnaround in football made me greedy.

I realize getting it right is vital - I'm just wondering what a reasonable expectation might be.


Was this reported on our board?:


Lafayette Dirt…

   15 Apr 2015 Dirt

I have heard from an excellent source that there were 4-5 finalists to replace recently retired Dianne Nolan at Lafayette. From what I have heard, it appears the leader right now is Lafayette men’s assistant John O’Connor. The former head coach at Holy Family (PA) has been at Lafayette since 2012. He also worked at Lafayette from 2001-04 before landing on Paul Hewitt’s staff at Georgia Tech where he spent six seasons. It sounds like this search will wrap up shortly.////

Would they now????

https://whoopdirt.com/lafayette-dirt/



You been drinking again?
Lafalum

justasoldier wrote:
Andy wrote:
The Maroon wrote:
She's been gone 6 weeks now. I'll admit I don't know how long these things take but maybe the quick turnaround in football made me greedy.

I realize getting it right is vital - I'm just wondering what a reasonable expectation might be.


Was this reported on our board?:


Lafayette Dirt…

   15 Apr 2015 Dirt

I have heard from an excellent source that there were 4-5 finalists to replace recently retired Dianne Nolan at Lafayette. From what I have heard, it appears the leader right now is Lafayette men’s assistant John O’Connor. The former head coach at Holy Family (PA) has been at Lafayette since 2012. He also worked at Lafayette from 2001-04 before landing on Paul Hewitt’s staff at Georgia Tech where he spent six seasons. It sounds like this search will wrap up shortly.////

Would they now????

https://whoopdirt.com/lafayette-dirt/



You been drinking again?


very very hard to believe
Bogus Megapardus

It has to be a woman in this position. It just has to. I know there are some very good men coaching women's bball but I think a woman is most appropriate on College Hill. Just my 2˘ for whatever reason.
SixtyEighter

My 2 cents - How long did the search to replace Bruce go on ? Apparently no one else wanted the job and Bruce stayed on. Maybe the same situation here with Grentz except you can't bring back a fired coach who left in extremis.Sorry to rain on the parade but our alma mater is known as a coaches' graveyard.Who would want to take over a program as far down in the dump as this one which is also burdened by the institutional sports malaise. Also a study report of unknown dimensions is due. Further we don't know what kind of crazy goings on plague the Athletic department under Bruce's failing leadership.It's a perfect storm of discouragement.Add to all this the need to bring in some one with impeccable credentials and instant credibility like Coach Garrett.
Bogus Megapardus

The Garrett hire places a high bar for future coaching hires, for sure.
Ransom Stoddard

Candidates for the position are being interviewed the week of May 22.
bethlehempard

This is an opportunity to bring in a qualified African American woman. There are many who are assistants and were great players. Few are head coaches.
The talent and experience are out there.
Lafayette's first two coaches in the early days did well. Then we had a 20-year titan, faltering toward the end. Then we tried a D3 coach, then a D1 coach, then a Hall of Fame coach.
Either make a big bold move now or drop the team. League rules be damned.
Go big or it's "Dead Program Walking."
justasoldier

We should hire the BEST CANDIDATE, not necessarily someone of Japanese or German or African American or any candidate of a particular descent. Lets hire the best candidate.  Doesn't mater if it's male or female.

We had a male head coach for field hockey and he did fine. Didn't matter he coached a women's team. He was the best candidate. Unfortunately we wouldn't pay him what he was worth and he moved on.

This is typical liberal thinking, we need to have one of these, one of those, etc. Let's hire the best person for the job.

This should be the AD's decision, not some committee. When you try to satisfy everybody you satisfy nobody and the result is not the best.
Kpard

justasoldier wrote:
We should hire the BEST CANDIDATE, not necessarily someone of Japanese or German or African American or any candidate of a particular descent. Lets hire the best candidate.  Doesn't mater if it's male or female.

We had a male head coach for field hockey and he did fine. Didn't matter he coached a women's team. He was the best candidate. Unfortunately we wouldn't pay him what he was worth and he moved on.

This is typical liberal thinking, we need to have one of these, one of those, etc. Let's hire the best person for the job.

This should be the AD's decision, not some committee. When you try to satisfy everybody you satisfy nobody and the result is not the best.


AMEN!
bethlehempard

How many times has Lafayette hired the best coaching candidate, even a good candidate? For anything?
How many fans only realized FT had to go in the last couple games?
How many still blindly support our lifetime, happy, contented stress-free lifetime losers?
How many wanted former assistants for football?
It's time for this school to do something bold and do something well.
Otherwise Lafayette is on the Road to Division Three or dropping sports.
Lafayette futility is making the school a joke.
The WBB coach has to be a woman. Say what nonsense you will about politics, it has to be a woman.

The talent pool among African American women is deep. It's time for this.
Yankeefan1922

This should be the AD's decision, not some committee.

In a normal world yes, but Bruce hasn't proven he is up to the task.

The WBB coach has to be a woman.

You can make an argument that the best three coaches in the league are men: Roussell, Magarity, Gibbons.  At worst, they are in the top 5.
bethlehempard

The greatest WBB coach of all time is of course a man.
If there is truly a clearly best candidate who doesn't fit my ideal image, so it goes. I've been around enough hiring to know that choosing among the final three, four, five candidates can be difficult. Hiring isn't a precise science.
I also know Lafayette's hiring history.
Considering Lafayette's history, moribund program and general lack of interest, I would like to see a bold move. Bringing in Grentz was a bold move. Alas.

Politically correct or otherwise, this program needs a woman coach. Just my very humble opinion.

So far it appears that the other two recruits are still on board.

Against all odds, Lafayette still has enviable fan interest in its sports program.  I fear that window is closing as fans of all stripes -- diehard, loyal, hopeful, critical, negative and angry -- are aging, and younger alumni and Easton-area residents are less engaged.
Leopard Loyalist

I think that bethlehempard's point is not to do something pc, but  that there is a deep pool of coaching talent that is not being tapped by others, i.e., African-American women. It's an opportunity to do better than we might normally be expected to do.
Bogus Megapardus

I have zero reason to believe that Lafayette would avoidi black head coaching candidates; actually I tend to think the opposite. But I still maintain that the Lafayette womens bb coach should be a woman, however, Geno Auriemma notwithstanding.
SixtyEighter

The clock is ticking on Grentz replacement .Already have one defection from Grentz's second recruiting class . What is Bruce waiting for ?  Applications closed May 8.
Lafalum

Hearing an announcement to come tomorrow!!!
Kpard

Thanks for the heads up.
Ransom Stoddard

Lafalum wrote:
Hearing an announcement to come tomorrow!!!


http://www.goleopards.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/053017aaa.html
Marooner

I would guess this means we'll get a "leak" today. Haven't found anything on Twitter yet, though.
justasoldier

Assistant coaches are gone. Announcement tomorrow around noon.
pardfan

IMO, the heat is on Bruce to such an extent that I would be stunned if the new coach weren't an AA female. As decisions go, it's a layup.  (Hiring a coach doesn't take this long.  Hiring the coach you feel you desperately need does.)
Andy

Marooner wrote:
I would guess this means we'll get a "leak" today. Haven't found anything on Twitter yet, though.


Good call, here it is:

http://www.goleopards.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/053017aaa.html

EDIT: Yikes, sleuths we ain't:

Atticus Finch‏ @wbballhoopscoop May 24

Lafayette: finalists are; Tasha Pointer. Mike Lafler and Kia Damon

EDIT: For those interested in the process: should be Leflar, Assoc HC Binghampton

EDIT: Coach Pointer http://www.redstormsports.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/073015aaa.html
Andy

More on the process from Snodgrass:


http://snodgrasspartners.com/2017/06/fast-search/
bison137

Andy wrote:
More on the process from Snodgrass:


http://snodgrasspartners.com/2017/06/fast-search/



Interesting that Snodgrass indicates the search began April 26th.   Grentz was officially gone on April 4th.   What was going on during the 22-day gap?
justasoldier

bison137 wrote:
Andy wrote:
More on the process from Snodgrass:


http://snodgrasspartners.com/2017/06/fast-search/



Interesting that Snodgrass indicates the search began April 26th.   Grentz was officially gone on April 4th.   What was going on during the 22-day gap?



It's the Lafayette way.
Andy

bison137 wrote:
Andy wrote:
More on the process from Snodgrass:


http://snodgrasspartners.com/2017/06/fast-search/



Interesting that Snodgrass indicates the search began April 26th.   Grentz was officially gone on April 4th.   What was going on during the 22-day gap?


Probably a mini-Study on committee selection to choose the search firm. A consensus was eventually reached that we better hurry up "in order to get the new coach on the recruiting trail ASAP."

Actually, using the search firm approach and getting the bulk of the sorting away from our athletic leadership is an excellent idea (expensive I imagine), and the approach seems to be 2 for 2. If there is failure no one will shoulder blame, be held accountable, or be made to feel uncomfortable. "The committee made me do it."

137, you guys have had several successful coaching hires over the past several years in m & w bball. What's your selection process?
bison137

Andy wrote:


137, you guys have had several successful coaching hires over the past several years in m & w bball. What's your selection process?



Based on second hand info, I believe the Bucknell process is similar to what LC did this time.    They use a search firm to turn up some names and I believe AD John Hardt has some contacts to get other candidates on his own.    Then there is a  committee that  looks at resumes.   I think it consists of a couple of faculty members, the AD, a couple of coaches or other athletics administrators and one or two student-athletes.   They narrow down the list fairly quickly to those invited for a first interview.   After that process is completed, three or four finalists return for a second interview.  Then a selection is made.   Recent timelines have been:

1.  Pat Flannery resigns April 18th.  Dave Paulsen announced May 20th.
2.  Process for vacant women's job starts March 8th.  Aaroun Roussell hired April 17th.
3. Dave Paulsen leaves March 30th.  Nathan Davis hired April 19th.

I am not certain, but based on the timing it appears that they have wanted to conclude the process prior to the two spring evaluation periods, which are held the final two weekends of April.

The committee has been fairly effective in quickly eliminating poor candidates with strong resumes.   For one example, Sean Kearney - who was a disaster at HC - had a strong resume, a long tenure as associate head coach at Notre Dame, and some big-time references.  Yet the committee was not impressed and quickly eliminated him.

One other story is that when Charlie Woollum left Bucknell in 1994 to take the job at his alma mater, William and Mary, the Bucknell AD at that time had decided he wanted to hire Jeff Bzdelic.   He had to form a committee but thought he could steer them to his man.   In fact, it was so obvious that Pat Flannery,who had just won a D3 national championship, pulled his name out of consideration.   However Bzdelic showed up at his interview completely unprepared and the committee didn't want him.   They called up Flannery and asked him to interview.   He did and was ultimately hired.   Bzdelic went on to be a head coach at Air Force, Colorado, Wake, and the Denver Nuggest with various levels of success.
Andy

Thanks,137.  With her considerable contacts I'm hoping Coach D can make up for the late start. I havent looked into any commitments around the league.

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