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bethlehempard

Harvard Pre-Game

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/10/11/harvard-football-cornell/

They beat Georgetown 45-0.

http://www.thecrimson.com/column/...2015/10/8/football-tougher-tests/

A little history
http://www.thecrimson.com/article...n-opens-1967-season-vs-lafayette/
Harvard won 51-0. Lafayette was 4-5 that year. Wins over Bucknell, Washington and Lee, Kings Point and Lehigh.
The other losses were to Hofstra, Delaware, Rutgers and Gettysburg.
pgmillspunk

Rest of Schedule

Massey FCS football predictions, does not have a win the rest of the way FYI> Crying or Very sad  Question
BillS

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...at_a_quality_of_life_we_have.html Bruce will have to payoff Franks last year of his contract, even at Lafayette 1 and 10 isn't acceptable!
Pards Rule

Wow - watching that 2009 game on stream vs Harvard seems a LOOOOONG time ago!  What a win!
pardfan

Re: Harvard Pre-Game

bethlehempard wrote:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/10/11/harvard-football-cornell/

They beat Georgetown 45-0.

http://www.thecrimson.com/column/...2015/10/8/football-tougher-tests/

A little history
http://www.thecrimson.com/article...n-opens-1967-season-vs-lafayette/
Harvard won 51-0. Lafayette was 4-5 that year. Wins over Bucknell, Washington and Lee, Kings Point and Lehigh.
The other losses were to Hofstra, Delaware, Rutgers and Gettysburg.



Had only been on campus for a couple of weeks (1967).  Asked fellow frosh how we did in the game that Saturday (at Harvard).  "We lost 51-0."  Oh.
(Don't know that we have ever lost a first game that bad.)   Sensed the next few yrs would be a battle.
Pard4Life

Harvard beat Georgetown 45-0 last week.

Just think about that for a moment.
bethlehempard

Re: Harvard Pre-Game

pardfan wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/10/11/harvard-football-cornell/

They beat Georgetown 45-0.

http://www.thecrimson.com/column/...2015/10/8/football-tougher-tests/

A little history
http://www.thecrimson.com/article...n-opens-1967-season-vs-lafayette/
Harvard won 51-0. Lafayette was 4-5 that year. Wins over Bucknell, Washington and Lee, Kings Point and Lehigh.
The other losses were to Hofstra, Delaware, Rutgers and Gettysburg.



Had only been on campus for a couple of weeks (1967).  Asked fellow frosh how we did in the game that Saturday (at Harvard).  "We lost 51-0."  Oh.
(Don't know that we have ever lost a first game that bad.)   Sensed the next few yrs would be a battle.


Items like that indicate what we've lost at Lafayette. Not that you are that much older than I am, but recall the cocktail parties: in my late-70s era, alumni from the 1920s and earlier would sometimes show up. We even had a semi-regular from the Class of 1924. We'd get to hear about the old days from the guys who were there.
No more, alas.
bison137

Re: Rest of Schedule

pgmillspunk wrote:
Massey FCS football predictions, does not have a win the rest of the way FYI> Crying or Very sad  Question



Not much consolation, but Massey projects a 2-9 record.
Pard4Life

Re: Rest of Schedule

bison137 wrote:
pgmillspunk wrote:
Massey FCS football predictions, does not have a win the rest of the way FYI> Crying or Very sad  Question



Not much consolation, but Massey projects a 2-9 record.


Who the heck do we beat with our prolific scoring offense that's averaging 6 points per game?
whatthefrank?

This game means nothing to Harvard and Dartmouth and Princeton are looking legit, so maybe out of caution we don't get their best. A guy can dream!!

Also is it my imagination or did the Patriot league do better against Ivies before scholarships???
The Maroon

whatthefrank? wrote:


Also is it my imagination or did the Patriot league do better against Ivies before scholarships???


I feel the same way.
flyfisher

There was some conversation on leadership. So I started counting the seniors. Seniors that make significant contributions on the field would be Dodd, DiPietro, Zataveski, Smalley, Roberts, and Vickers returned yesterday after moving to DT from DE. Other seniors contributing are Crawford, Gruden, Snyder, maybe I missed one or two. Seniors we lost were Keller, Brockman, Hoffman, (another starting o linemen from last year who quit, his name slips me ), and David Miller and Mercado, also out for the year, and all were starters. I realized we only have about 8 seniors even playing and lost 3 starting o-linemen not counting Jr Staudle who is a 2 year starter. We simply don't have many seniors. Others need to step up. Finish the year as best as possible and build for next year.
yesrep

Fly how can you not mention Bencsko that kid never quits,and has outplayed Brockman to the same point last year.
NE Leopard

There is still time to finish the season out strong. There is no doubt that the 2016 Pard's will be better than this year, but don't throw in the towel for 2015. The coaches and kids can't give up. The seniors and juniors need to step up their leadership and help guide the younger guys.

Posters should stop blaming the OL, the QB , the DL, the DB's, and the coaches.

The kids need to make some plays and compete. The coaches need to put them in a position to be successful. Who knows if the record will be 1-10, 2-9, 3-8, 4-7, 5-6 or maybe even 6-5. Who cares, play hard, don't quit and be competitive.
flyfisher

yesrep wrote:
Fly how can you not mention Bencsko that kid never quits,and has outplayed Brockman to the same point last year.
w

Because I simply forgot his name. I am sure I probably left someone else out. If I did please contribute. We now have 6 seniors contributing. As to comparing him to Brockman, Brockman was scheduled to start at that position and was the hands down choice. Benchko has filled in admirably, however they are two different players. Brockman was not only our best returning defensive player, he was the leader of the defense as well. To Bencsko's credit, he seldom comes off the field. He plays hard. What he lacks in size and speed he makes up for in passion and effort. Tremendous intensity in his play.

I would not get too caught up in stats. The two people that should lead our defense in tackles are Bryant and Bencsko. If they don't something is wrong with the defense.

Bryant plays the weak side of the two Iber positions. Dodd plays strong. Dodd usually takes on the lead blocker, the pulling guard, the fullback. Bryant should have pursuit. And if the nose or 3technique does his job and occupy a 2 blockers (Rothrock) then Bryant is free to roam and pursue. My oldest played the same position as Bryant and he led his team in tackles as well. It's part of the scheme of the defense. That said, Bryant has an unusual knack for getting to the ball combined with good technique and a fierceness.

Bencsko should be next on the team in tackles. He is right behind cleaning up what Dodd and Bryant can't get. He also can blitz freely at times. Stats can be misleading. Just because someone is making tons of tackles 8 yards down field doesn't mean their play is great. When there is a QB sack many people tend to look at the player that made the sack. Sometimes that player does make a great individual play or move but many times it's also due to the contributions of others that freed him up to make that play. Sometimes it's a coverage sack. Sometimes we send more on one side that the offense can block. You can site all the stats you want, as many parents do, but the  ultimate statement of good defensive performance is whether you get off the field or not. Just like the sign of a good offense is do you convert on 3rd down and do you move the chains and convert in the red zone. Stats are for losers. All the stats in the world but right now our defense is not getting off the field. We just gave up 38 to Georgetown. Enough said.
SixtyEighter

If this team beats Harvard it will be the upset of the century.Incidentally my cousin played on those late 60's Harvard teams including the one that scored all those points to earn a late tie against Brian Dowling , Calvin Hill et al and the cumulative scores for the two games both played at Harvard was 91 -0 or 91 -7 awful in any event.
NewXbo

There is only one statistic that counts, it's the final score. All emphasis should be on that, not individual statistics. Football is a team sport.
The Maroon

NE Leopard wrote:
There is still time to finish the season out strong. There is no doubt that the 2016 Pard's will be better than this year, but don't throw in the towel for 2015. The coaches and kids can't give up. The seniors and juniors need to step up their leadership and help guide the younger guys.

Posters should stop blaming the OL, the QB , the DL, the DB's, and the coaches.

The kids need to make some plays and compete. The coaches need to put them in a position to be successful. Who knows if the record will be 1-10, 2-9, 3-8, 4-7, 5-6 or maybe even 6-5. Who cares, play hard, don't quit and be competitive.


I'd be more excited about the exciting youth movement you seem to believe we're having if we were competitive at all. We're playing younger athletes because they're the best we have (for whatever reason). Right now there's no indication they're better than the subs of the teams who are hammering us.

I agree we'll have a better product next year - but "better" could be 3-8.

It's that bad.
yesrep

who brought up stats, thought we were talking about players this year and leaders/seniors,and how you can skip this kid.
flyfisher

yesrep wrote:
who brought up stats, thought we were talking about players this year and leaders/seniors,and how you can skip this kid.


I answered your question. I didn't "skip" him. I simply could not remember everyone while riding down the road. No slight intended. I referenced stats because you mentioned "production". Unfortunately I probably missed another kid. I did mention Snyder and Crawford as they have played recently. As to seniors, we simply don't have but about 8 playing at all. We just don't have many.

As others have said, the only production that matters is on the scoreboard. Anyone can spin a positive out of the stats.

On a different subject, I was glad to see Crawford in but not sure why we have not seen him before. Plus we got Tim V back last weekend and Crawford still got in at WR.
Kpard

Is what we are seeing created by the mix of schollies and non schollies? Dissention? Jealousy?
flyfisher

Every school has a little of that, whether PL or the SEC. our issues run deeper than that.

Injuries
Effort
Lack of depth
Youth. We simply don't have many seniors

Other minor stuff.
SIDELINER

Word around on Crawford is that he had to sit out a couple of games with an academic issue.  Also, you may see him as a starter on DEFENSE on Saturday because Smalley and Parham won't play. Crawford did start at corner before Parham pushed him out. Another wide receiver also may be over on defense for the same reason.  Anyone around here who thinks the injury issue is all smoke needs a readjustment. Check The Morning Call's Georgetown followup in today's paper.

Fly makes good point about seniors. Also, while we call the junior class the first scholarship class, don't forget that the league's decision to go to scholarships was a late one and many, many decisions had already been made. I think we now have 2 1/2 classes of scholarship players, not three. But that situation is the same for the rest of the league, too, not just Lafayette.
flyfisher

I don't know anything about Crawford. My son and I have an agreement. I know better than to ask personal info about others if it's none of my business. I still don't know the 4 players that got suspended, nor do I need to know. Though one of them was pretty obvious. Easy to have an academic issue at LC. That place is tough.

If Smalley and Parham are out we are in deeper trouble. We are probably under 50 available players now. It's getting to be laughable. Nice to hvnucget Vickers back. He plays with his hair on fire. Need more of that passion.
Pard4Life

Looking into history: we had a pretty pathetic stretch in 1995 of barely scoring.

But 1980, the last year of Neil Putnam, was the worst in recent history. Pards were 3-7 with wins over Davidson, Kings Point, and Penn.

Scores:

CCSU 3-14
Davidson 27-20
Columbia 0-6
Maine 3-24
Bucknell 0-14
Penn 3-0
Colgate 0-44
6-28 UNH
Kings 31-12
Lehigh 0-32

Aside from the two cupcakes (real cupcakes) we scored zero touchdowns. I guess you can see why C2 gets bitter. And yet, Bill Russo came aboard the next year and we went 9-2 in 1981. That has to be among the most dramatic turnarounds in college football ever.
Lafalum

SIDELINER wrote:


Also, while we call the junior class the first scholarship class, don't forget that the league's decision to go to scholarships was a late one and many, many decisions had already been made. I think we now have 2 1/2 classes of scholarship players, not three. But that situation is the same for the rest of the league, too, not just Lafayette.


Weiss resisted scholarships right to the end, once embarrassingly  contradicting himself in the school newspaper which had to be corrected by calls from the chairman of the board, saying we would abide by the decision of the league. Weiss did manage to delay the vote by a year. The other Patriot League schools counted the votes and recruited like they knew the outcome. So while we have 2 1/2 classes several others have three. (Lehigh, Bucknell, possibly Holy Cross and of course Fordham.) But that doesn't explain the Georgetown loss and all the injuries. I do blame the over ambitious schedule on Bruce and Frank.

I will say this, we are still in the woods on how scholarships are managed. For example, lately there were debates on what happens if scholarships are unused ( academic issues, player getting cut,), How are they accounted for non counter sports. Who qualifies for a scholarships and who has the last decision, ( admissions or the coach). Moving targets on academic qualifications and how it is measured.
bethlehempard

Russo's turnaround was aided by six Villanova transfers, who were eligible immediately because the school dropped its then big-time program. Howie Long was perhaps their last big-name player from that era.
Putnam's last game was a debacle. The poor guy was walking about knowing he was going to get fired.
Some football players came to my house's cocktail party just to escape their own alumni.
Pards Rule

Pard4Life wrote:
Looking into history: we had a pretty pathetic stretch in 1995 of barely scoring.

But 1980, the last year of Neil Putnam, was the worst in recent history. Pards were 3-7 with wins over Davidson, Kings Point, and Penn.

Scores:

CCSU 3-14
Davidson 27-20
Columbia 0-6
Maine 3-24
Bucknell 0-14
Penn 3-0
Colgate 0-44
6-28 UNH
Kings 31-12
Lehigh 0-32

Aside from the two cupcakes (real cupcakes) we scored zero touchdowns. I guess you can see why C2 gets bitter. And yet, Bill Russo came aboard the next year and we went 9-2 in 1981. That has to be among the most dramatic turnarounds in college football ever.


And I was there! It was intoxicating! Russo could easily have been elected Mayor!
Pards Rule

bethlehempard wrote:
Russo's turnaround was aided by six Villanova transfers, who were eligible immediately because the school dropped its then big-time program. Howie Long was perhaps their last big-name player from that era.
Putnam's last game was a debacle. The poor guy was walking about knowing he was going to get fired.
Some football players came to my house's cocktail party just to escape their own alumni.


In between dodging snowballs from the stands from a bored crowd. Recall about a 4 inch snowfall fell earlier that week and stayed around. Also recall the Easton Police were getting pelted too and returned the favor at the end of the game swinging clubs at the goalpost rush. Many an ambulance ran downtown as I remember.
Pards Rule

SixtyEighter wrote:
If this team beats Harvard it will be the upset of the century.Incidentally my cousin played on those late 60's Harvard teams including the one that scored all those points to earn a late tie against Brian Dowling , Calvin Hill et al and the cumulative scores for the two games both played at Harvard was 91 -0 or 91 -7 awful in any event.


Earning the famed Harvard Crimson headline: Harvard beats Yale, 29-29
bethlehempard

http://www.thecrimson.com/article...3/football-cornell-notebook-2015/

“Defensively we’ve just continued to play great football,” Harvard coach Tim Murphy said. “Our first defense hasn’t been scored upon in the last three games.”
bethlehempard

About that 29-29 tie, I read once that late in the game, Dowling pleaded with Carmen Cozza (now 85) to get in on defense.
Cozza said the QB would have found a way to get the ball back. He was that determined. The coach didn't put him in "because it would have ruined the guy he replaced for life" (vague quote from a distant memory but generally accurate.
That's one of the best quotes I've ever heard that was attributed to a football coach.
bethlehempard

http://www.goleopards.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020112aab.html

How the Class of 2016 started, with 30.

Signee
Video
Pos
Ht
Wt
Hometown/High School/Last School
1  Matt Anderson

DL
6-2
270
Raleigh, N.C./Wakefield
2  Dennis Bencsko

LB
6-0
215
East Hanover, N.J./Delbarton
3  Chris Brockman

LB
5-11
212
Richmond, Texas/Foster/Valley Forge Military Academy
4  Nick Collins

DL
6-1
275
Tucker, Ga./Tucker
5  Darrell Crawford

WR
5-9
170
Wilkes Barre, Pa./G.A.R. Memorial
6  Dan Dellovade

FB
6-1
235
Moon, Pa./Moon
7  Bobby DePietro

LB
6-3
220
Lancaster, Pa./Lancaster Catholic
8  Mark Dodd II

LB
6-2
220
Wheeling, West Va./Linsly
9  Andrew Dzurik

QB
6-3
205
Columbia, Pa./Lancaster Catholic
10  Paul Federinko

OL
6-5
320
Columbia, Md./Atholton
11  Ryan Gralish

K/P
6-1
215
Mars Pa./Mars
12  Deuce Gruden

WR
5-6
170
Tampa, Fla./Carrollwood Day School
13  Freddie Hess

FB
6-1
220
Annville, Pa./Annville-Cleona
14  John Hoffman

OL
6-4
295
Basking Ridge, N.J./Immaculata
15  Brian Keller

TE
6-3
235
Somerdale, N.J./Triton
16  John Lang

OL
6-2
285
Belle Mead, N.J./Montgomery
17  Steve Mercado

DL
6-1
280
Cape Coral, Fla./North Fort Myers
18  David Miller

OL
6-4
315
Cranberry Township, Pa./Seneca Valley
19  Mike Moralle

DB
6-2
205
Fair Haven, N.J./Rumson Fair Haven
20  Pat Narus

OL
6-4
310
Harrisburg, Pa./Bishop McDevitt
21  Louie Pappas

QB
5-11
200
Tarpon Springs, Fla./Tarpon Springs
22  Jack Poetzsch

WR
6-0
195
West Islip, N.Y./St. Anthony's
23  Kyle Sakowski

DB
6-0
190
Chester, N.Y./Don Bosco Prep
24  Ryan Sanders

DL
6-4
245
Katonah, N.Y./John Jay
25  Matt Smalley

DB
5-10
175
Philadelphia, Pa./Father Judge
26  Jamel Smith

WR
6-0
170
New Egypt, N.J./New Egypt
27  Ben Snyder

DB
6-1
215
Fogelsville, Pa./Northwestern Lehigh
28  Tyler Vickers

TE
6-5
225
Miami, Fla./Miami Southridge
29  Darren Wright

LB
6-2
235
Glenside, Pa./Bishop McDevitt
30  Nick Zataveski

OL
6-5
bison137

bethlehempard wrote:
About that 29-29 tie, I read once that late in the game, Dowling pleaded with Carmen Cozza (now 85) to get in on defense.
Cozza said the QB would have found a way to get the ball back. He was that determined. The coach didn't put him in "because it would have ruined the guy he replaced for life" (vague quote from a distant memory but generally accurate.



Calvin Hill joined Dowling in trying to get onto the field on defense:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/sports/ncaafootball/16ivy.html?_r=0


A couple things from that game:

- Calvin Hill fumbled deep in Harvard territory with less than 4 minutes left and Yale in position to clinch the game.
-  The Harvard QB was sacked late in the game, which would have set up a 4th and 20 situation - except that he fumbled and a Harvard OT rumbled about 18 yards with it.
- The first Harvard 2-point conversion was stopped - but a penalty gave them another shot.
flyfisher

bethlehempard wrote:
http://www.goleopards.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020112aab.html

How the Class of 2016 started, with 30.

Signee
Video
Pos
Ht
Wt
Hometown/High School/Last School
1  Matt Anderson (Lineman with team)

DL
6-2
270
Raleigh, N.C./Wakefield
2  Dennis Bencsko (striker with team)

LB
6-0
215
East Hanover, N.J./Delbarton
3  Chris Brockman (out for season and probably done)

LB
5-11
212
Richmond, Texas/Foster/Valley Forge Military Academy
4  Nick Collins (not sure, gone)

DL
6-1
275
Tucker, Ga./Tucker
5  Darrell Crawford (current player)

WR
5-9
170
Wilkes Barre, Pa./G.A.R. Memorial
6  Dan Dellovade (current player)

FB
6-1
235
Moon, Pa./Moon
7  Bobby DePietro (current player, may be injured)

LB
6-3
220
Lancaster, Pa./Lancaster Catholic
8  Mark Dodd II (current player)

LB
6-2
220
Wheeling, West Va./Linsly
9  Andrew Dzurik (gone)

QB
6-3
205
Columbia, Pa./Lancaster Catholic
10  Paul Federinko (projected o-line starter who quit)

OL
6-5
320
Columbia, Md./Atholton
11  Ryan Gralish (current player, backup kicker)

K/P
6-1
215
Mars Pa./Mars
12  Deuce Gruden (current player)

WR
5-6
170
Tampa, Fla./Carrollwood Day School
13  Freddie Hess (no longer on team but in school)

FB
6-1
220
Annville, Pa./Annville-Cleona
14  John Hoffman (injured, o-line starter, out for the year)

OL
6-4
295
Basking Ridge, N.J./Immaculata
15  Brian Keller (tragedy)

TE
6-3
235
Somerdale, N.J./Triton
16  John Lang (current player but injured currently)

OL
6-2
285
Belle Mead, N.J./Montgomery
17  Steve Mercado (injured and not playing)

DL
6-1
280
Cape Coral, Fla./North Fort Myers
18  David Miller (injured and out, o-line starter)

OL
6-4
315
Cranberry Township, Pa./Seneca Valley
19  Mike Moralle ( don't know)

DB
6-2
205
Fair Haven, N.J./Rumson Fair Haven
20  Pat Narus (don't know)

OL
6-4
310
Harrisburg, Pa./Bishop McDevitt
21  Louie Pappas (don't know)

QB
5-11
200
Tarpon Springs, Fla./Tarpon Springs
22  Jack Poetzsch (don't know)

WR
6-0
195
West Islip, N.Y./St. Anthony's
23  Kyle Sakowski (gone)

DB
6-0
190
Chester, N.Y./Don Bosco Prep
24  Ryan Sanders (don't know)

DL
6-4
245
Katonah, N.Y./John Jay
25  Matt Smalley (current player)

DB
5-10
175
Philadelphia, Pa./Father Judge
26  Jamel Smith (don't know)

WR
6-0
170
New Egypt, N.J./New Egypt
27  Ben Snyder (current player)

DB
6-1
215
Fogelsville, Pa./Northwestern Lehigh
28  Tyler Vickers (current player)

TE
6-5
225
Miami, Fla./Miami Southridge
29  Darren Wright (injured, out for the year)

LB
6-2
235
Glenside, Pa./Bishop McDevitt
30  Nick Zataveski (injured but playing through it)

OL
6-5


Now go back and look at how many are gone or out due to injury. From that list there are 9 linemen that are either not with the program or are injured and out.

Another thing to consider is look at the projected starters on the O-line going into spring ball.

SR. Federinko quit
JR. Staudle injured
Sr.  Zataveski playing but injured
Sr. Miller injured
Seniors. Hoffman/Lang, both injured
Soph. Cam playing
Sr. DiPietro, injured
Sr. Keller

We went from expecting to have a senior filled o-line to playing lots of freshmen(Who have done well IMO).
bethlehempard

Jamel Smith started great, got into trouble and left. He stopped at Monmouth and maybe somewhere else and is now at Rowan (former Glassboro State).

http://www.rowanathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5254
Bogus Megapardus

Week 7 Sportsbook:

Army (-23) vs. Bucknell o/u 26˝

Colgate (-2) at Georgetown o/u 43

Princeton (-8˝) at Brown o/u 64

Dartmouth (-30˝) at Central Connecticut o/u 50

Sacred Heart (-10˝) vs. Cornell o/u 54

Fordham (-13) vs. Holy Cross o/u 59

Harvard (-33) at Lafayette o/u 46

Penn (-7) at Columbia o/u 47

Maine (-2˝) vs. Yale o/u 53

*   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

Other Games of Interest:

Bryant (-5) vs. Duquesne o/u 41

Richmond (-16) at Rhode Island o/u 49

William & Mary (-7˝) vs. New Hampshire o/u 53

Villanova (-10˝) at Albany o/u 45

Stony Brook (-Cool vs. Towson o/u 36
bethlehempard

The over is looking good.
adcs2

In addition to Smith, here are some updates on others ...

4 Nick Collins (not sure, gone)  <---- Mercer U

DL
6-1
275
Tucker, Ga./Tucker

9 Andrew Dzurik (gone)  <---- Bethel U.

QB
6-3
205
Columbia, Pa./Lancaster Catholic

19 Mike Moralle ( don't know)  <---- Still enrolled, Track & Field

DB
6-2
205
Fair Haven, N.J./Rumson Fair Haven
20 Pat Narus (don't know)  <---- Catholic U.

OL
6-4
310
Harrisburg, Pa./Bishop McDevitt
21 Louie Pappas (don't know)  <---- Cup of coffee at Stetson?

QB
5-11
200
Tarpon Springs, Fla./Tarpon Springs
22 Jack Poetzsch (don't know)  <---- still enrolled?

WR
6-0
195
West Islip, N.Y./St. Anthony's
23 Kyle Sakowski (gone)  <----- Albany

DB
6-0
190
Chester, N.Y./Don Bosco Prep
24 Ryan Sanders (don't know)  <----- Still enrolled?

DL
6-4
245
Katonah, N.Y./John Jay
Pards Rule

bison137 wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
About that 29-29 tie, I read once that late in the game, Dowling pleaded with Carmen Cozza (now 85) to get in on defense.
Cozza said the QB would have found a way to get the ball back. He was that determined. The coach didn't put him in "because it would have ruined the guy he replaced for life" (vague quote from a distant memory but generally accurate.



Calvin Hill joined Dowling in trying to get onto the field on defense:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/sports/ncaafootball/16ivy.html?_r=0


A couple things from that game:

- Calvin Hill fumbled deep in Harvard territory with less than 4 minutes left and Yale in position to clinch the game.
-  The Harvard QB was sacked late in the game, which would have set up a 4th and 20 situation - except that he fumbled and a Harvard OT rumbled about 18 yards with it.
- The first Harvard 2-point conversion was stopped - but a penalty gave them another shot.


Didn't the NCAA only allow fumbles to be advanced starting 25 years ago - in 1990? I had read that in a bloopers column on the We Are Marshall film, which showed a fumble being successfully advanced. Another mistake was that the Xavier team was referred to as the Pirates by the PA announcer when in real life they are the Musketeers (wow- what a nickname!). The Pirates, of course, are East Carolina which beat Marshall, 17-14,  the afternoon before the chartered Southern Airways flight 932 crashed short of HTS (Huntington, WV) Airport later that evening.
bison137

The NCAA made a rule change in 1992 that applied to the defense. Prior to that, the defense could not advance any fumble that occurred BEHIND the line of scrimmage.  The rule change removed that restriction.      Not sure if there was ever a restriction on the offense advancing a fumble - but I do know for sure that Harvard's OT did so in 1968.   I didn't do a lot of research but references to it can be found in many old articles, such as this one:

Champi did move Harvard to the Yale 38, where he faced third-and-18. Stepping up in the pocket, Champi was buried by two Yale linemen. But as he fell to the ground, the ball squirted out to his left where tackle Fritz Reed picked it up and rambled diagonally down field 25 yards to the Yale 15-yard line. "I think he was trying to lateral," recalled Reed, "and the ball came out on the ground. It was just lying there."

http://www3.nd.edu/~tmandell/harvard.html


I had guessed that the return was 20 yards, but this article says 25.
SixtyEighter

 In the 29-29 victory for Harvard my cousin had a fumble recovery for Harvard.
bethlehempard

I love the history from back in the day. More interesting than one SEC crew vs another in this era despite all the hype.
We could use a few recoveries on Saturday. This just feels bad. Yet if we can put a couple drives together and stay on offense and stay in it who knows.
Our guys took a gut punch this summer and very little has gone right since.
Finish with effort and pride and nobody can ask more.
Army West Point -- AWP? -- has been running radio ads for Saturday. I don't know if that's routine or if the matchup with Bucknell isn't drawing too well.
bethlehempard

Brad Wilson on the OOC games:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...tou.html#incart_river_mobile_home

I don't know if I agree but he makes a good argument.
Just as in basketball, many fans thought we would be better.
LeopardBall10

I really think the issue that so many of us are having is that this team just doesn't seem to care anymore.

We understand injuries. They happen. Almost never to this exaggerated level, but they are what they are. Every team plays with/through them.

We understand the Youth, mostly because of the injuries. Of course we would like to see the staff slowly develop these guys and put them in when they are ready, but can't do that when there are no bodies.

We see the depth issues and I know they are caused by the limitations on non-athletic aid and the inability to recruit anyone who isn't a schollie player or a full pay, no-need walk on. Every team in the league is battling it, and it is causing serious issues.

But we don't see the effort. You may not be a good team, but at least you can battle. That is one thing that was always said about Bucknell when they were down. "They may not score, they may be undersized, they may be slow and stiff, but boy will they hit. You are probably going to win, but you are going to remember the game." Where is that mentality? Why don't they care enough to fight? It looks like everyone is going through the motions.

If they go through the motions again this weekend, another no show, it will be one of the ugliest losses Lafayette has seen.
RichH

When a team loses focus on winning and goes thru the motions the only solution lies with the players. Coaches can yell and threaten but that alone wont do it. It falls to teammates and team leaders to get on everyone and make each accountable. Lack of effort ,particularly by frosh,is more a factor of being lost not only with individual responsibilities but also with game speed. For some that combination is paralyzing. The issue is not ,I think,lack of caring or effort,so much as having to put so many kids on the field who just aren't ready.
flyfisher

LeopardBall10 wrote:
I really think the issue that so many of us are having is that this team just doesn't seem to care anymore.

We understand injuries. They happen. Almost never to this exaggerated level, but they are what they are. Every team plays with/through them.

We understand the Youth, mostly because of the injuries. Of course we would like to see the staff slowly develop these guys and put them in when they are ready, but can't do that when there are no bodies.

We see the depth issues and I know they are caused by the limitations on non-athletic aid and the inability to recruit anyone who isn't a schollie player or a full pay, no-need walk on. Every team in the league is battling it, and it is causing serious issues.

But we don't see the effort. You may not be a good team, but at least you can battle. That is one thing that was always said about Bucknell when they were down. "They may not score, they may be undersized, they may be slow and stiff, but boy will they hit. You are probably going to win, but you are going to remember the game." Where is that mentality? Why don't they care enough to fight? It looks like everyone is going through the motions.

If they go through the motions again this weekend, another no show, it will be one of the ugliest losses Lafayette has seen.


They do care and are playing hard. Is every player giving 100%? Probably not but is that ever the case? I heard about the character, or lack of, of a lot of the players during your day. I can tell you we don't have that mess any longer. the kids are playing hard. However many are very young and very inexperienced.

As to every team having injuries, name another team that we have played or will play that has lost their whole o-line and 3 backups in the same year. Lost 6 safeties. Down 30 plus players from beginning of camp. name that team and then we can talk. Injuries happen, but usually not at this pace.
Pard4Life

Agree with Leopard10 and we saw some of that a few years ago.

However, some years you have a team badly outmanned our out-talented and have interesting, scrappy seasons with guys who want to win, like 2001.

Bogie: add another spot to the wheel of excuses: schedule is too tough.  I don't buy it: Delaware was terrible. Wagner is bad. We had chances vs WM. Princeton was a no-show.
NE Leopard

It is not lack of effort by the freshmen, more lack of experience, athletic maturity, game speed and overall strength.  I don't care what you say, but a 17/18 year old OL going against a 21/22/23 year old DL is just not going to overpower them, regardless of their skills level. No doubt the juniors and seniors need to step up and lead. The team can still finish strong, attitude and effort is the keys to the remainder of the season.
flyfisher

Pard4Life wrote:
Agree with Leopard10 and we saw some of that a few years ago.

However, some years you have a team badly outmanned our out-talented and have interesting, scrappy seasons with guys who want to win, like 2001.

Bogie: add another spot to the wheel of excuses: schedule is too tough.  I don't buy it: Delaware was terrible. Wagner is bad. We had chances vs WM. Princeton was a no-show.


I'm sorry and will say this as politely as possible but you don't understand it. You don't know the talent at those other schools. Please don't take offense.
SIDELINER

Wouldn't it be nice to be going into Saturday's game with Chris Brockman, Draeland James, Darren Wright, Matt Smalley, Phillip Parham, Steve Mercado in the lineup on defense?

And would John Hoffman, Connor Staudle, David Miller, Dylan Wadsworth help the offensive line?

Fly's number of 30 seems a little bit high -- but not by much, if you put on the list players who have missed one or more games with some kind of injury. And in many cases, players who took the places of starters have ended up among the wounded -- like Kaizer Butler, Jerry Powe, Clay Rush, Michael Root, etc. It has been an avalanche of injury this year. And when players who should be getting their feet wet on the scout team wind up in the game-day lineup. trouble should be expected.

Having to practice with as few as 53 players doesn't make things any easier. I went through the Harvard roster. That teams had 28 -- TWENTY-EIGHT -- double numbers, which means the roster is 127 players. That gives "next man in" a new meaning. If they bring 60 or so to Easton, they must have had some kind of lottery to see who comes and who stays back.

But only 11 will be on the field at any one time. Comforting, isn't it? But I don't think the Leopards have quit. And, I don't think Coach Tavani is ready to quit, either.

See The Morning Call's story from this week's luncheon.

http://www.mcall.com/sports/colle...rvard-advance-20151013-story.html
bethlehempard

The Crimson view:

We are going to bring it all to them,” said senior defensive end James Duberg. “[It’s a] great opportunity to get some young guys in there assuming that we take care of business in the first half. Lots of blitzes going in this week—fun stuff.”

http://www.thecrimson.com/article...6/football-19-straight-Lafayette/

"Full expectation of a blowout"
Pards Rule

bison137 wrote:
The NCAA made a rule change in 1992 that applied to the defense. Prior to that, the defense could not advance any fumble that occurred BEHIND the line of scrimmage.  The rule change removed that restriction.      Not sure if there was ever a restriction on the offense advancing a fumble - but I do know for sure that Harvard's OT did so in 1968.   I didn't do a lot of research but references to it can be found in many old articles, such as this one:

Champi did move Harvard to the Yale 38, where he faced third-and-18. Stepping up in the pocket, Champi was buried by two Yale linemen. But as he fell to the ground, the ball squirted out to his left where tackle Fritz Reed picked it up and rambled diagonally down field 25 yards to the Yale 15-yard line. "I think he was trying to lateral," recalled Reed, "and the ball came out on the ground. It was just lying there."

http://www3.nd.edu/~tmandell/harvard.html


I had guessed that the return was 20 yards, but this article says 25.



Yeah the movie showed a defensive recovery and advancement so you are right then. I was in Huntington WV when they were doing some filming for it and saw the Warner Bros jet and a notice in the local paper seeking 1970 and prior cars and dress on people.
NewXbo

I'm not expecting a win. But I am expecting maximum effort from every player on every play.
LeopardBall10

NewXbo wrote:
I'm not expecting a win. But I am expecting maximum effort from every player on every play.


At this point I think that's about the only reasonable expectation we have left.
RichH

NCAA did ban fumblerooski plays,dont know if that applies to all O fumbles recovered by offensive players.
flyfisher

LeopardBall10 wrote:
NewXbo wrote:
I'm not expecting a win. But I am expecting maximum effort from every player on every play.


At this point I think that's about the only reasonable expectation we have left.


That's fair. It's sad where we are. Just don't have many players left. The comments by Murphy about building some confidence with some wins is true. We have the tragedy this summer. Then we lose our o-line. Then we get more injuries. Then we start getting our teeth kicked in. Then we lose more players. It's been demoralizing. There have not been many positives, and that coming from someone who tries to see the positives. I hate it for the team, coaches and the alumni.
newtothepards

suspensions

I'm new here but I feel one of the reasons is that Tavani has lost respect of some of the team.  In years past, players that have been suspended have not been allowed to dress until the suspensions were over. This year. all 4 players dressed and 2 played in the second game, even though they were suspended for 2 games.

How fair was that to the prior players?

And all were suspended for the same drug use.
Zeus

Sorry, but your perspective into the suspension length and reason being is incorrect.
bethlehempard

IMHO: commenting on allegations of unpublished reports of drug use is inappropriate. Really. I don't run this board but really.
Zeus

[quote="flyfisher:50794"][quote="LeopardBall10:50792"][quote="NewXbo:50788"]I'm not expecting a win. But I am expecting maximum effort from every player on every play.[/quote]

At this point I think that's about the only reasonable expectation we have left.[/quote]

That's fair. It's sad where we are. Just don't have many players left. The comments by Murphy about building some confidence with some wins is true. We have the tragedy this summer. Then we lose our o-line. Then we get more injuries. Then we start getting our teeth kicked in. Then we lose more players. It's been demoralizing. There have not been many positives, and that coming from someone who tries to see the positives. I hate it for the team, coaches and the alumni.[/quote]

Fly, At some point, you need to just stop wasting your time with irrational people. Your facts are not accepted, and instead turned into false narratives.

The OL did a good job the first game against W&M and then the injuries happened, and then the O started to struggle. The D was out of wack for the start of the year, and it's still not right due to injuries.
When you don't have the depth yet, and this amount of injuries happen, you're going to struggle. The freshman ( who are 17/18/19) are being thrown into roles they are just not physically able to do yet .So because they are being physically outmatched, people are saying the recruiting isn't good . Just for reference, Kern is 17. He's going against 22 and 23 year olds.

People need to take a look around the league( except Fordham--- who take kids lafayette couldn't sniff academically/transfers) and see everyone is having the same issues with depth and younger players physically not there yet. The only thing is that no one has the same amount of injuries as Lafayette. It's not an excuse, it is what is it.
Zeus

[quote="bethlehempard:50797"]IMHO: commenting on allegations of unpublished reports of drug use is inappropriate. Really. I don't run this board but really.[/quote]

And it's incorrect on top of it.
Bogus Megapardus

I'm talking myself out of going to the game because I just don't want to see my Pards get humiliated.  I know that's no excuse and I'm being a complete wimp and I should show up no matter what.  But I just can't bear it.  Even the First Lady says we should go.

It's like a 45-minute drive.  Please, somebody talk me into making the trip.  Crying or Very sad
ELB

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
I'm talking myself out of going to the game because I just don't want to see my Pards get humiliated.  I know that's no excuse and I'm being a complete wimp and I should show up no matter what.  But I just can't bear it.  Even the First Lady says we should go.

It's like a 45-minute drive.  Please, somebody talk me into making the trip.  Crying or Very sad


Bogie.  MAKE THE TRIP.

If the Leopards pulled out a story book victory you would kick yourself for staying home - and the boys would appreciate your attendance.

Tailgating at LC is always a blast - and the boys would appreciate you being there.

You will run into and talk with Fly - and the boys would like to see you in the stands.

You are an alum of a college with a beautiful campus and 1st class football facilities - and the boys want you there.

I live nearly 1800 miles from Easton where my grandson plays football, and I can't attend every home game, but you can - and my grandson would like you in the stands.

I appreciate your commitment to LC football here and on AGS - but I would like you even more if you are in Easton tomorrow.

Take First Lady's advice, after all you know she knows best about most things, and just go to the game.
Bogus Megapardus

Thanks ELB.  That helps.
Pard4Life

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
I'm talking myself out of going to the game because I just don't want to see my Pards get humiliated.  I know that's no excuse and I'm being a complete wimp and I should show up no matter what.  But I just can't bear it.  Even the First Lady says we should go.

It's like a 45-minute drive.  Please, somebody talk me into making the trip.  Crying or Very sad


It's homecoming. It's a nice day. You're going to sit home? Go.

You can go out to eat afterward.
bethlehempard

Homecoming isn't as big a deal at Lafayette as elsewhere because Lehigh, home or away, is the draw. What a blessing the rivalry is. Nobody else in the PL has anything close anymore. Every year, a shot at redemption - or disaster.
The exchange in the posts above is just another example of what makes the Lafayette community so great. Stay or go, win or lose, the fans care. Amazing. And it will never stop.
**
As for the spread, simple math suggests this basis: 45-0 + 37-7 = 82-7 / 2 = 41-3.5 close to dead on the book.
I always wondered who has to do Eastern FCS spreads at the sports books. Kind of like being the analyst for Bon-Ton or Darling Ingredients or small-bank stocks.
Go Pards!
DaveR

Anyone else going to the Maroon Club tailgate?  Looking forward to a nice fall day on campus.  Going to the game, even though the chances for a Pards upset are slimmer than Penn State beating Ohio State tomorrow night.  Would love to see both!   Shocked
rjphog

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
I'm talking myself out of going to the game because I just don't want to see my Pards get humiliated.  I know that's no excuse and I'm being a complete wimp and I should show up no matter what.  But I just can't bear it.  Even the First Lady says we should go.

It's like a 45-minute drive.  Please, somebody talk me into making the trip.  Crying or Very sad


I am flying in from Atlanta with my wife and two babies. Convinced some family to fly in from Boston (unfortunately one is a Harvard grad).

Expectation is that you make the short trek. See you there!!
Pard4Life

flyfisher wrote:
Pard4Life wrote:
Agree with Leopard10 and we saw some of that a few years ago.

However, some years you have a team badly outmanned our out-talented and have interesting, scrappy seasons with guys who want to win, like 2001.

Bogie: add another spot to the wheel of excuses: schedule is too tough.  I don't buy it: Delaware was terrible. Wagner is bad. We had chances vs WM. Princeton was a no-show.


I'm sorry and will say this as politely as possible but you don't understand it. You don't know the talent at those other schools. Please don't take offense.


Fly I get it. I get we are playing kids younger than HS seniors and who have never played positions against red shirt seniors and teams with 100+ players. Fordham and Delaware score FBS transfers. I get that's why we are getting killed in every facet.

I think we are all muddling the issue of quiting and not wanting to win vs lack of confidence. I really doubt they are going out there and not caring. But whenever something goes wrong or turns the other way, we implode. No fight or response. So that's why it looks like we quit. I think there was a quote to that effect from the Fordham coach... we just died after a blocked FG. We looked good those first few minutes and then poof.

I really disagree about the schedule being too tough.
Pard4Life

Was on the Harvard site to read the article and found this... which year is this? 2010 post game vs Harvard. Sounds like this is 2015 though. I know you are new fly but this is why many of us here are tired of all this... some variation happens every year. Why?

What Tavani Said: We’re fighting a lot of adversity...we had three starters on Thursday go down, and that shook up special teams and some other things. You know, you see an awful lot of freshmen out there, both on offense and defense, and particularly special teams. And even though it’s great for them to get that experience, they’re certainly not quite ready...

A couple of times we weren’t lined up, and the more young guys we’re putting out there, the more that happens. Hey, we don’t make any excuses. We got a good, old-fashioned butt kicking, and we’ve got to get up off the mat to play another day. And it doesn’t get any easier, because Columbia is absolutely blowing Princeton off the field right now.

What Tavani Meant: These two quotes would be excellent to use in a game of “Two Truths and a Lie.” The truths: Lafayette did get its butt kicked, and Columbia destroyed Princeton, 42-14. The lie: Tavani, in reality, did make excuses, citing the three injuries sustained in practice as a factor in the game and blaming the lack of game readiness of the freshmen he fielded. There’s no doubt that those absences did have an impact on the game plan, and there’s also no doubt that the Leopards will have their hands full with the Lions on Saturday. Judging by Lafayette’s performance, health, and attitude coming out of this contest, I’d bet on the Leopards falling to 0-5 in the Big Apple.
bethlehempard

My advice to you, is to start drinking heavily:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE
pardfan

Until the quarterback situation is figured out, trouble will find us.  While not blaming Drew exclusively for our...predicament, I do think he is part of the problem and not (at all) part of the solution. His TOTAL lack of mobility combined with the shortcomings of this offensive line IS PAINFUL TO WATCH. The fact that he has one more year makes things difficult; but, Tavani gave an unknown underclassman a shot during a Harvard game two years ago.  The time is right--again.
Pard4Life

The receivers have not helped at times.
flyfisher

Holy cow! This is not a QB issue. Could Drew play better? Maybe. But it's the whole team. We have to block much better. Wars need to get separation. D line needs to get pressure. DBs need to cover better. Safeties need to get over. Special teams need to block. It's far from just a QB issue.

As to the CAA, half the kids in the CAA we can't get in school. You think LC is going to let in partial qualifiers or kids with an 850 SAT?  Most of JMU's team could not fill out the application to LC. We simply don't have as big a pool to pull athletes at most CAA teams. Richmond can take 6 exceptions a year. How many you think Towson and JMU can pull?

Pards rule, as far as going to the game, it's a great day, see some friends, watch some football. One day we will be wishing for days like today. What else is there? Stay at home and blow leaves?

See some of you at the Maroon Club tailgate.
pardfan

flyfisher wrote:
Holy cow! This is not a QB issue. Could Drew play better? Maybe. But it's the whole team. We have to block much better. Wars need to get separation. D line needs to get pressure. DBs need to cover better. Safeties need to get over. Special teams need to block. It's far from just a QB issue.

As to the CAA, half the kids in the CAA we can't get in school. You think LC is going to let in partial qualifiers or kids with an 850 SAT?  Most of JMU's team could not fill out the application to LC. We simply don't have as big a pool to pull athletes at most CAA teams. Richmond can take 6 exceptions a year. How many you think Towson and JMU can pull?

Pards rule, as far as going to the game, it's a great day, see some friends, watch some football. One day we will be wishing for days like today. What else is there? Stay at home and blow leaves?



See some of you at the Maroon Club tailgate.


The "kids" just need to do better.  Thanks for the input, Harry Caray.  We have a "window of opportunity" (could be one game or the rest of season depending upon your viewpoint) to see what the underclassmen can do in the most important position on the field.  Get 'em out there.  For that matter, anybody with any potential whatsoever to play a meaningful role next year...get them out there, too.  BUT ESPECIALLY QB.
Bogus Megapardus

Well it IS perfect football weather, isn't it?  And the leaves are turning?  I give up - see you all at the game.  Somebody be sure to start a game thread here.

GO PARDS
pgmillspunk

Simple Rule to help the experience level.

One simple rule, that the league needs to adjust is the redshirt rule.  Over the last few years hardly any kids took advantage of their redshirt?  Why?  Probably many number of reasons, but I think the one that is #1 is $.  Kids had to commit to another $ 25,000 for an added semester.  Because of the silly rule in the patriot league of 8 semesters?  How about making in 10!  

I believe this to be the # 1 goal of Lafayette athletics to push for to make us MORE competitive!
bethlehempard

That won't ever happen.
Of course I said the same thing about scholarships.
Still it just can't happen and it would benefit the schools with graduate programs more.
Pards Rule

Go Pards!! PRIDE & PASSION!!  You have nothing to fear but another expected L
flyfisher

Re: Simple Rule to help the experience level.

pgmillspunk wrote:
One simple rule, that the league needs to adjust is the redshirt rule.  Over the last few years hardly any kids took advantage of their redshirt?  Why?  Probably many number of reasons, but I think the one that is #1 is $.  Kids had to commit to another $ 25,000 for an added semester.  Because of the silly rule in the patriot league of 8 semesters?  How about making in 10!  

I believe this to be the # 1 goal of Lafayette athletics to push for to make us MORE competitive!


You don't need to give 10 semesters, just 9. Most FCS schools only pay through football season in that 5th year.

Many issues with the redshirt rule.

Money is an awesome sauce. And it's not 25k. It's 32k before incidentals. So roughly about 35k. Because of this you have to leave Lafayette for a semester. And to make matters worse LC only lets you transfer in up to 3 classes. So you can't take a full load and transfer it in. If you have taken any summer school elsewhere then you can't transfer many hours.

LC doesn't have grad school. Not much we can do about that. But that's what Cepeda, Brockman and others plan on doing. Go ahead and graduate from LC and then play your 5th year somewhere else and start on your grad school.

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