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Pard4Life

Holy Cross Pre-game: Will we score?

A win is unlikely: face it. HC pushed Fordham to the limit and whomped CAA Albany.

The question is: will we score a TD?

And, will we be competitive for a half?

Gain positive rushing yards?

It's all about doing the little things right.
Pards Rule

Re: Holy Cross Pre-game: Will we score?

Pard4Life wrote:
A win is unlikely: face it. HC pushed Fordham to the limit and whomped CAA Albany.

The question is: will we score a TD?

And, will we be competitive for a half?

Gain positive rushing yards?

It's all about doing the little things right.


Wow we are in the final stretch so its now or never in my opinion. Just keep focusing and that's all we can do. We cant think about being outscored 80-7 in the last two games vs. Georgetown & Harvard.
LeopardBall10

So, this pregame thread is over 24 hours old and I am going out of my way to be the 3rd poster.  Yikes. I know Fly mentioned that at least we have a passionate alumni base and that apathy would be worse. But this looks a lot like apathy to me.

Anyway, I haven't seen HC play a single down this year so I don't really know what to expect. I hate applying the transitive property to football outcomes so I don't really care how they did against Fordham on a random Saturday. But I just don't think there are enough players ready to go on Saturday to make a difference. My prediction - The D starts the game strong again (at least playing hard), but the struggling O puts them in bad position after bad position until everyone on D is tired and the game gets broken open and the route is on.
flyfisher

You are probably right 10. Not many players expected back this week.
Andy

LeopardBall10 wrote:
So, this pregame thread is over 24 hours old and I am going out of my way to be the 3rd poster.  Yikes. I know Fly mentioned that at least we have a passionate alumni base and that apathy would be worse. But this looks a lot like apathy to me.


What are we supposed to do, post that we're gonna get killed?  The injuries have made this a lost season. Hope to get Staudle and Kern back for the last game.  The cicumstances that have a 3rd string DL who has never played OL in his football career starting at OG can bring about apathy.  The patchwork DB crew in absence of Smalley/Parham has been awful.  Three blocked FG attempts in as many tries sums up the state of this team. I'll still go to all the home games, keep my hotel reservations and spend money in Easton, just not much to say here.
Franks Tanks

I can say the guys played hard on Saturday, and that is all we can ask.  It was easy to spot mistakes and guys getting beat, but we of course have many guys playing before they should and in unfamiliar spots. It is expected.  

Holy Cross will be more on our wave length talent wise.  They don't have superior athletes necessarily, but they have experienced guys.  The HC QB threw for 500 yards last week, and must be licking his chops when viewing film of our depleted secondary.

At this point a win for the offense would be to get to double digits, and a win for the D would be to keep Holy Cross under 30.  I say this without irony as it will mark improvement.
LeopardBall10

Andy wrote:


What are we supposed to do, post that we're gonna get killed?  The injuries have made this a lost season. Hope to get Staudle and Kern back for the last game.  The cicumstances that have a 3rd string DL who has never played OL in his football career starting at OG can bring about apathy.  The patchwork DB crew in absence of Smalley/Parham has been awful.  Three blocked FG attempts in as many tries sums up the state of this team. I'll still go to all the home games, keep my hotel reservations and spend money in Easton, just not much to say here.


Oh, you are definitely correct. Not much to say, not much hope. I was just pointing out an observation. And unfortunately apathy can become a bad habit. I would hate to see the fans of the team fall into that trap. When the unfailingly faithful in our midst (those posting on this board) start to fail I get worried.
Newleopardfan2

LeopardBall10 wrote:
Andy wrote:


What are we supposed to do, post that we're gonna get killed?  The injuries have made this a lost season. Hope to get Staudle and Kern back for the last game.  The cicumstances that have a 3rd string DL who has never played OL in his football career starting at OG can bring about apathy.  The patchwork DB crew in absence of Smalley/Parham has been awful.  Three blocked FG attempts in as many tries sums up the state of this team. I'll still go to all the home games, keep my hotel reservations and spend money in Easton, just not much to say here.


Oh, you are definitely correct. Not much to say, not much hope. I was just pointing out an observation. And unfortunately apathy can become a bad habit. I would hate to see the fans of the team fall into that trap. When the unfailingly faithful in our midst (those posting on this board) start to fail I get worried.


Trying to look at the positive amidst all of the pain and suffering: if you enjoy watching punts, we have twice as many as Lehigh (44 vs. 22). And I am optimistic that, in our next 2 games, we'll do better than 80-7.
flyfisher

We should get some guys back for Bucknell. Next question becomes to bring some back or redshirt them, like a Draeland James. I have to admit that many of the kids are discouraged.  Most have never been in this type situation, losing games and losing by a lot and knowing you are totally out-manned.
Lafalum

flyfisher wrote:
We should get some guys back for Bucknell. Next question becomes to bring some back or redshirt them, like a Draeland James. I have to admit that many of the kids are discouraged.  Most have never been in this type situation, losing games and losing by a lot and knowing you are totally out-manned.


Even if they red shirt, who pays their tuition since  the way manage scholarships is a use it or lose it!!
RichH

Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.
LeopardBall10

RichH wrote:
Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.


Yes, that is typically the case. The rules (PL not LC) are that you can only come back for the 5th year if you have an academic reason. Most players who have come back to LC for the 5th year have either lightend the course load JR year to allow for an additional semester or they will pick up a minor. But the spring semester that 5th year the player takes off. Usually goes home and picks up an internship, etc. But they don't participate in drills or practice until the fall.

My only problem with redshirting them is that it doesn't help Lafayette. As soon as a current player is eligible to redshirt they will be leaving for Grad School at [insert name of FBS school near home]. The number of players eligible for a 5th year vs the number who have stayed would be a telling stat. Now that the door has been opened for other teams with Grad schools to poach the PL has been opened I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of that happening. Lehigh had a post on AGS earlier about their top OL going the route and I think there have been a few others.
Franks Tanks

LeopardBall10 wrote:
RichH wrote:
Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.


Yes, that is typically the case. The rules (PL not LC) are that you can only come back for the 5th year if you have an academic reason. Most players who have come back to LC for the 5th year have either lightend the course load JR year to allow for an additional semester or they will pick up a minor. But the spring semester that 5th year the player takes off. Usually goes home and picks up an internship, etc. But they don't participate in drills or practice until the fall.

My only problem with redshirting them is that it doesn't help Lafayette. As soon as a current player is eligible to redshirt they will be leaving for Grad School at [insert name of FBS school near home]. The number of players eligible for a 5th year vs the number who have stayed would be a telling stat. Now that the door has been opened for other teams with Grad schools to poach the PL has been opened I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of that happening. Lehigh had a post on AGS earlier about their top OL going the route and I think there have been a few others.


It is an interesting dynamic we've created.  Traditionally few players have transferred for their 5th year, but we may see it happen more often given our redshirt restrictions and "scholarship" players.

You may be thinking of the OL from Fordham.  The kid is now a starting tackle for the Florida Gators.  Pretty impressive
flyfisher

RichH wrote:
Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.


You can stay in school but you have to pay the full tuition and associated costs. Most can't do that. Plus you can only transfer in up to 3 classes from another school. So if you go home and go to school you can only transfer in school much and you don't want to get too close to graduating otherwise you lose the redshirt option. That is why just go ahead and graduate and take that 5th year somewhere else and start grad school. Another thing some have not thought about is if you have that 5th year to play and you are a talented player you can get into a grad school right away instead of having to wait a few years like many others. That is just for the top schools.
bethlehempard

Darrius Safford finished school in 2013, went to Georgia Southern for a year as that school was moving up to FBS. He's the only LC player I recall using the rule.

*Corrects graduation date.
Lafalum

flyfisher wrote:
RichH wrote:
Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.


You can stay in school but you have to pay the full tuition and associated costs. Most can't do that. Plus you can only transfer in up to 3 classes from another school. So if you go home and go to school you can only transfer in school much and you don't want to get too close to graduating otherwise you lose the redshirt option. That is why just go ahead and graduate and take that 5th year somewhere else and start grad school. Another thing some have not thought about is if you have that 5th year to play and you are a talented player you can get into a grad school right away instead of having to wait a few years like many others. That is just for the top schools.


Oh yes another organizational nightmare created and impediment to success ignoring the needs of our student athletes. Where is the management attention??? Is it in Markle…maybe Kirby, some office on the Quad that used to be a fraternity, where are the decision makers??
Franks Tanks

bethlehempard wrote:
Darrius Safford finished school in 2013, went to Georgia Southern for a year as that school was moving up to FBS. He's the only LC player I recall using the rule.

*Corrects graduation date.


Ben Eaton also tried to do the same at Towson, but I recall some snafu made him ineligible, and he never joined the team at Towson.

Lets also remember this will impact a small number of players.  Scholarships are precious, and only a few players from our league will be deemed impactful enough to receive one for a graduate transfer.  The big schools seem to have fewer 5th year players than they did years ago.  Back in the day schools like Penn State were loaded with 5th year players, many of whom were already in grad school.  These days the big school often play kids as freshman, or move them out of the program after 4 years if they are not stars so they can add more recruits.
ELB

The Leopard offense is in a quandary.  They would run the ball better with the QB under center with an I back or in a single wing with a FB, but that makes the QB vulnerable to a pass rush when the line fails to pass block effectively (which is usually the LC case).  Running with the QB in shotgun reduces RB options - it makes the RB more prone to run laterally rather than downhill and allows line penetration for losses (which is commonly the LC case).  Running out of the pistol is usually a poor compromise.  But for Drew this may be the best option.  Obviously Drew is more comfortable operating from the shotgun - and he is good at rolling right.  If some sort of running game can be established play action passes and rollouts might save the offense, keep the D off the field a bit, and provide a chance for success.
RichH

flyfisher wrote:
RichH wrote:
Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.


You can stay in school but you have to pay the full tuition and associated costs. Most can't do that. Plus you can only transfer in up to 3 classes from another school. So if you go home and go to school you can only transfer in school much and you don't want to get too close to graduating otherwise you lose the redshirt option. That is why just go ahead and graduate and take that 5th year somewhere else and start grad school. Another thing some have not thought about is if you have that 5th year to play and you are a talented player you can get into a grad school right away instead of having to wait a few years like many others. That is just for the top schools.

Good grief,that's worse than I imagined. IsLafayette that short of funds that it cant afford the aid while the player continues his education. Asinine policy.
Franks Tanks

RichH wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
RichH wrote:
Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.


You can stay in school but you have to pay the full tuition and associated costs. Most can't do that. Plus you can only transfer in up to 3 classes from another school. So if you go home and go to school you can only transfer in school much and you don't want to get too close to graduating otherwise you lose the redshirt option. That is why just go ahead and graduate and take that 5th year somewhere else and start grad school. Another thing some have not thought about is if you have that 5th year to play and you are a talented player you can get into a grad school right away instead of having to wait a few years like many others. That is just for the top schools.

Good grief,that's worse than I imagined. IsLafayette that short of funds that it cant afford the aid while the player continues his education. Asinine policy.


It's not money.  I believe Holy Cross does it the same way- they give aid for 8 semesters, and one must take off a semester if they wish to play the 5th year.  There are some exceptions I believe for double majors and such, but not sure.
RichH

FT ,No,I understand that. As far as I know we all give aid for 8 semesters. LU continues aid for medshirts. They may account for it on a different ledger but the player is not forced to make a. Hobson's choice that most simply cannot do. LC policy may make business sense but it does ignore the reality of life for the players. Is there education interrutipn insurance for those students akin to the more common business interruption insurance?
flyfisher

Franks Tanks wrote:
RichH wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
RichH wrote:
Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.


You can stay in school but you have to pay the full tuition and associated costs. Most can't do that. Plus you can only transfer in up to 3 classes from another school. So if you go home and go to school you can only transfer in school much and you don't want to get too close to graduating otherwise you lose the redshirt option. That is why just go ahead and graduate and take that 5th year somewhere else and start grad school. Another thing some have not thought about is if you have that 5th year to play and you are a talented player you can get into a grad school right away instead of having to wait a few years like many others. That is just for the top schools.

Good grief,that's worse than I imagined. IsLafayette that short of funds that it cant afford the aid while the player continues his education. Asinine policy.


It's not money.  I believe Holy Cross does it the same way- they give aid for 8 semesters, and one must take off a semester if they wish to play the 5th year.  There are some exceptions I believe for double majors and such, but not sure.


Mostly correct. School provides aid for 8 semesters. What a lot of FCS schools is provide aid for that 9th semester but not a complete 5th year. You can play that 5th year but in December you are done with aid.

What others don't take into account is when you leave school that semester you also miss out on practicing with your team, spring ball or whatever. One idea is to stick around, get a job and take a couple of classes at Moravian or somewhere. However I am not positive about this but I suspect since you are not enrolled in the college that you cannot practice with the team. I do not know that to be fact. Assumption only and I could be wrong. But I would thing from a liability standpoint the college would not want you practicing or training. Just a thought. Maybe someone with more knowkledge could comment on that.
Franks Tanks

RichH wrote:
FT ,No,I understand that. As far as I know we all give aid for 8 semesters. LU continues aid for medshirts. They may account for it on a different ledger but the player is not forced to make a. Hobson's choice that most simply cannot do. LC policy may make business sense but it does ignore the reality of life for the players. Is there education interrutipn insurance for those students akin to the more common business interruption insurance?


But isn't it 9 semesters of aid if the player takes his 5th year and doesn't leave for a semester?  Are you saying the standard at Lehigh is 8, with 9 for medical hardship?
Pards Rule

Franks Tanks wrote:
RichH wrote:
FT ,No,I understand that. As far as I know we all give aid for 8 semesters. LU continues aid for medshirts. They may account for it on a different ledger but the player is not forced to make a. Hobson's choice that most simply cannot do. LC policy may make business sense but it does ignore the reality of life for the players. Is there education interrutipn insurance for those students akin to the more common business interruption insurance?


But isn't it 9 semesters of aid if the player takes his 5th year and doesn't leave for a semester?  Are you saying the standard at Lehigh is 8, with 9 for medical hardship?


Damn you have to have an MBA (Masters of Bargaining Anew) to understand this stuff
RichH

Other than a student incapacitated from attending class, no medshirt has left school to qualify for a 5th year. One caveat,this situation has not really matured yet for any schollie athletes as none are seniors. None,however ,have been forced to withdraw from school.
bison137

flyfisher wrote:
Franks Tanks wrote:
RichH wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
RichH wrote:
Recall a post here that LC makes their medshirts withdraw from school in order to redshirt eligibility. Is that still the case?
Seems a rather draconian policy for players.


You can stay in school but you have to pay the full tuition and associated costs. Most can't do that. Plus you can only transfer in up to 3 classes from another school. So if you go home and go to school you can only transfer in school much and you don't want to get too close to graduating otherwise you lose the redshirt option. That is why just go ahead and graduate and take that 5th year somewhere else and start grad school. Another thing some have not thought about is if you have that 5th year to play and you are a talented player you can get into a grad school right away instead of having to wait a few years like many others. That is just for the top schools.

Good grief,that's worse than I imagined. IsLafayette that short of funds that it cant afford the aid while the player continues his education. Asinine policy.


It's not money.  I believe Holy Cross does it the same way- they give aid for 8 semesters, and one must take off a semester if they wish to play the 5th year.  There are some exceptions I believe for double majors and such, but not sure.


Mostly correct. School provides aid for 8 semesters. What a lot of FCS schools is provide aid for that 9th semester but not a complete 5th year. You can play that 5th year but in December you are done with aid.

What others don't take into account is when you leave school that semester you also miss out on practicing with your team, spring ball or whatever. One idea is to stick around, get a job and take a couple of classes at Moravian or somewhere. However I am not positive about this but I suspect since you are not enrolled in the college that you cannot practice with the team. I do not know that to be fact. Assumption only and I could be wrong. But I would thing from a liability standpoint the college would not want you practicing or training. Just a thought. Maybe someone with more knowkledge could comment on that.



1.  One issue at Holy Cross is that they have no grad school.  Thus it may be hard as a second semester senior to suddenly come up with a viable academic reason to stay for another year.   That issue is taken off the table if the player simply takes off a semester and doesn't graduate.

2.  You definitely cannot practice with the team if you aren't an enrolled student.
SIDELINER

The Morning Call's story from Tuesday's luncheon.

http://www.mcall.com/sports/colle...on-holy-cross-20151020-story.html

Nothing yet from the E-T.
Bogus Megapardus

Week 8 Sportsbook:

Yale (pk) at Penn o/u 61˝

Harvard (-21˝) vs. Princeton o/u 56˝

Brown (-12˝) at Cornell o/u 55˝

Fordham (-12˝) vs. Lehigh o/u 70˝

Bucknell (-4) vs. Georgetown o/u 31˝

Holy Cross (-1Cool vs. Lafayette o/u 42˝

Dartmouth (-32˝) vs. Columbia o/u 42˝

*****************

Other Games of Interest:

Wagner (-48˝) at BYU o/u 60˝

Stony Brook (-4) at Maine o/u 32

William & Mary (-26˝) vs. Hampton o/u 51

James Madison (-13˝) vs. Richmond o/u 72˝

Hew Hampshire (-7˝) at Delaware o/u 48˝

Villanova (-5˝) at Towson o/u 43˝

Marist (-23) at Davidson o/u 42˝
bethlehempard

This has been a difficult year and probably nobody expected greatness. That said, being the consensus worst team in the league, with any wins left deemed upsets, is hard to get used to.
BTW if that Wagner spread were correct I'd bet the house on BYU.
Wagner -48 1/2? Also it looks like the oddsmakers expect us to score, projected final about 30-12.
flyfisher

In no way did expect greatness, especially with our schedule. I had no idea that Princeton and Harvard were going to be that good. Don't get a lot of scouting reports on them out my way. However I did expect much better, 5-6 wins. It is highly likely we are looking at a one win season. Even with us getting some players back, though several may elect not to come back, take a redshirt and play the 5th year somewhere else. Can you really blame them?

If the season plays out this way we have to look all aspects of the program. Injuries or not, schedule be damned, a 1-2 win season is unacceptable and not what anyone signed up for. We Need to look at players, coaching, training in and out of season, game preparation, college support. Byerly wants to raise money, however this performance doesn't get it done.

This team has some talent when healthy. 1-2 wins is unacceptable.
bethlehempard

The seniors have enjoyed some great moments and big wins. There's still a chance for more this year. The fans are always pulling for you in good times and bad. That's a given at Lafayette. Really.
rjphog

Predictions for this game:
         LC offense scores double digit points
         Defense has one INT and one fumble recovery    
         Final outcome still a Loss
Newleopardfan2



PI
SixtyEighter

I agree with Fly 100%.His observations have been my mantra. There has to be a reason the team has had so many consecutive losing years since Tavani's early teams were so successful and it can't all be Tavani's fault.
Pard4Life

SixtyEighter wrote:
I agree with Fly 100%.His observations have been my mantra. There has to be a reason the team has had so many consecutive losing years since Tavani's early teams were so successful and it can't all be Tavani's fault.


Of course. It's not all his fault. It's why fly says and everything we are talking about on here. Unfortunately I don't think Tavani is part of the solution, but neither is our AD, institutional support, policies, admin etc.
SIDELINER

I keep coming back to senior leadership. The team definitely lost its heart when Brian Keller was killed. He would have definitely been a captain. Bobby DePietro did a nice job filling the gap, but now he's out, too. Was he the type of captain that could motivate? Mark Dodd is a solid player; I don't know a lot about his leadership  qualities. Jared Roberts was a captain last year, but not this year.

Matt Smalley is an all-league player who has been hampered by injury, but he is a senior and might have been a captain -- at least based on his ability. Brockman is a senior and could have been a captain because he would have been a key defensive player -- but he's also missed all year. I don't know who else might have been the take-charge type among the remaining seniors.

I think it's time to begin looking for leaders for 2016 and grooming them in these final couple of games so they can establish a special bond during the offseason. So, who would YOU choose if you were thinking about captaincy for next year?
The Maroon

flyfisher wrote:
Even with us getting some players back, though several may elect not to come back, take a redshirt and play the 5th year somewhere else. Can you really blame them.


Um... Yeah, if they pull a schoolyard stunt like that, I could blame them.

I agree with you a lot more than I disagree.
Pards Rule

Newleopardfan2 wrote:


PI



Remember it well. I was hollering at the TV and then they called 2 PIs on us that were so beneath this mugging to lead to HC final winning drive. One of the PIs extended the drive I recall. Didn't the League issue a statement saying it should have been called?

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