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bethlehempard

Is it time for the "Thanks, Frank" farewell tour?

Monday would be the perfect day to announce that the rest of this season is the "Thanks Frank" farewell tour.
I stopped watching but would have stuck around for the post-game "interview" such as it is. I love our media crew, and they do a great job, but guys, try asking a question. A real question. A real short question. This is how I imagine it:

"Tough day, Frank, but the kids never gave up and that's the hallmark of a Lafayette kid and a Lafayette football team and a Frank Tavani football team. You guys kept it close for awhile against a powerful Fordham squad and maybe with a break here and there this would have gone to the wire. You did have some trouble on the ground but gosh Blake was really slinging it today and maybe that's something to build on as you work your way through the Patriot League."

(Points microphone toward Coach Tavani, no question having been asked)

"Well, there are no excuses but that's a really good Fordham team and we're lucky to have Blake around for this. We didn't run the ball well and this isn't exactly the lineup on offense or defense that we'd planned for and we have to keep working on that. And we will."

"Thanks Coach, and good luck at ... uh .... next week."

Army. Next week. Say it ain't so.

Army is losing to Duke 13-6 in the fourth quarter. 3-1 now after a disappointing loss to Buffalo.
*Score corrected and game time updated.

Final stats:

Lafayette    Fordham
1st Downs 24 29
3rd down efficiency 5-15 3-8
4th down efficiency 3-3 0-1
Total Yards 437 709
Passing 325 193
Comp-Att 25-41 13-22
Yards per pass 7.9 8.8
Interceptions thrown 2 1
Rushing 112 516
Rushing Attempts 38 43
Yards per rush 2.9 12.0
Penalties 5-50 7-50
Turnovers 2 1
Fumbles lost 0 0
Interceptions thrown 2 1
Possession.    34:51.    25:09

TOP. The least meaningful statistic.
pardfan

Consecutive 1-10 seasons in the works and Frank comes back next year.  That isn't possible--even at Lafayette College. Is it?
What would that say about the school?
It's not like people aren't interested either.  AGS Patriot League pick 'em has a huge following.  Ivy League pick'em, for example, barely moves the needle.

Erik Marsh behind this OL is just another back.
bethlehempard

Boycott the games next year. It's already happening, informally.
I never thought I'd say such a thing but nothing else has worked and we are spinning into a bizarre world of excuses and disregard of reality.
One more loss and Losing Season No. 8 season is guaranteed.

2016: No Excuses!

if there is no change,

2017: No Fans!
NewXbo

NO Frank should not announce his retirement tomorrow. Frank has been with the program for many years. He did a lot of good things involving the football program. Frank was the force behind scholarships, Frank got a revised and improved stadium, Frank got the football building (The Palace), Frank got a new field, used by multiple sports teams.

To suggest that he retire tomorrow is not fair considering all he has done for the football program.

No one has been able to clearly tell us what's wrong with the program. Is it recruits? Andy and others have researched our recruits over the past 4 or 5 years. They have all had offers from other schools similar or better than the Patriot League. We have lost some good coaches.

Is it the assistant coaches? Some have been around for significant time, others are new. Has he kept some too long, are their development and leadership skills out of date.

To ask him to quit tomorrow is outright cruel. He deserves more.

I think Frank deserves to end his career at the end of the season with a win over Lehigh.  The coaches and players owe it to him.
bethlehempard

As noted above, he should finish the season. That is why I would call it a Farewell Tour.  There's no point in making a change now nor does anybody else deserve to be thrown into this mess.
For the good of the program, the pending change that must happen should be announced ASAP and then take place after the Lehigh game.
I don't dispute that FT did great things here. He's a huge figure in Lafayette sports history.
He was paid every year and he's had time to bring things around. He's an employee, paid and paid well. His dedication is extreme, and I commend and thank him, and I am glad he was the guy to step in when we were on the rocks.  
As for such a change actually happening, I wouldn't bet on it.
Lafayette can't compete in the Patriot League. Not even close. Doormat of the league last year and maybe this year. "Not meeting expectations." Even low expectations.
That is all that matters.
Change must happen this year.
Franks Tanks

I guess it could be worse.  Rutgers is losing to Michigan 71-0, and have 1 1st down and like 22 yards of total offense.  Then again we play Army next week.
flyfisher

NewXbo wrote:
NO Frank should not announce his retirement tomorrow. Frank has been with the program for many years. He did a lot of good things involving the football program. Frank was the force behind scholarships, Frank got a revised and improved stadium, Frank got the football building (The Palace), Frank got a new field, used by multiple sports teams.

To suggest that he retire tomorrow is not fair considering all he has done for the football program.

No one has been able to clearly tell us what's wrong with the program. Is it recruits? Andy and others have researched our recruits over the past 4 or 5 years. They have all had offers from other schools similar or better than the Patriot League. We have lost some good coaches.

Is it the assistant coaches? Some have been around for significant time, others are new. Has he kept some too long, are their development and leadership skills out of date.

To ask him to quit tomorrow is outright cruel. He deserves more.

I think Frank deserves to end his career at the end of the season with a win over Lehigh.  The coaches and players owe it to him.


XBO is right. Frank has done miles of good work for the program. Butnimdomthinkmhis time has come. While I was not around for it, but when Frank took over no one wanted the job and he found a way to get LC out of a hole. Granted, it was a long time ago but he has done a lot of good work fundraising. Someone made a suggestion last week that he should retire and take over the Maroon Club. Not sure I would do that but he could still do a lot of good for the college after coaching.
bethlehempard

What is consistently wrong with the program is that other teams put better players on the field than we do. Whether this is due to recruiting or development or both is the issue.
flyfisher

bethlehempard wrote:
What is consistently wrong with the program is that other teams put better players on the field than we do. Whether this is due to recruiting or development or both is the issue.


That is part of it. And both of those things Frank is accountable.
NE Leopard

flyfisher wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
What is consistently wrong with the program is that other teams put better players on the field than we do. Whether this is due to recruiting or development or both is the issue.


That is part of it. And both of those things Frank is accountable.


Overall the recruits are as good as the rest of the PL schools. Most came from winning HS programs and had multiple offers from PL, Ivy, and CAA schools. My feeling it has more to do with scheme and utilizing the talent in the right way. Yes, it would be great to have a featured back like a Chase Edmonds, but until we change up the scheme, and get a running game, we will continue to lose. On the defensive side, we continue to get shredded. It looked like a youth football game yesterday, 700+ total yards is embarrassing.

Change is needed no doubt, the powers at be need to figure out where it can be done, and quickly...
SixtyEighter

An analysis of the results for football since 1980 discloses 14 winning seasons over 36 years .Since 2010 - 7 consecutive losing seasons including this one. Even giving a pass for catching lightning in a bottle and winning the league in 2013 the record beginning 2014 to yesterday is 7-21 overall;  2-15 since last season to yesterday.In the league for the period 2014 to yesterday the record is 2-11 .We were told last year that things would be better this year when all the injured players return. This year's excuse is "It's a young team."However it's a young team because 1/3 of the first scholarship class most of whom were groomed to play have left leaving huge gaps in the lineup without senior players.Also the offensive line seems to be completely overmatched in and out of the league.They're not the only ones who can't block, though. Play after play was blown up yesterday by Fordham due to blatant missed blocks or inability to hold a block long enough to let the play succeed.I have never seen so many missed tackles as I saw yesterday.Chase Edmunds is good but he doesn't run for 348 yards on 18 carries every week. He averaged over 21 yards a carry.And he was rested after he broke his own record which was set last year against Lehigh..Frank's quote "We know we can't stop him but we want to slow him down."Also the DB's were chasing receivers all over the field again. A freshman was in the lineup on red zone pass defense and was badly beaten for a td  before the game got totally away.Again we had too many turnovers.One of the worst things going on is a problem in basketball as well - we are continually beaten by players we recruit who elect to go to our rivals.If there is a positive I would like someone to point it out because I don't see one.
pardfan

Quite simple solution here.   The President of the College has to say--and MEAN--the following:  "As pertains to the sports of men's football and men's basketball, Lafayette College is totally committed to WINNING in the Patriot League."

None of this "play for a championship" mumbo-jumbo we hear from 'ol Bruce.  

Things are in a serious state of disrepair.  Precious time is being wasted.

"Where HAVE all the flowers gone?....When will they ever learn?"
ed65

Clearly the powers at be especially the AD (who is playing out the string til retirement and Diorio who shouldn't have the job and clearly doesn't care) aren't listening.  They don't want to rock the boat and put their careers in jeopardy.
Lafalum

see my reply in other sports with a list of BOT members on the student life committee and some friendly faces on the BOT who could be contacted. The make up on the Student Life Cmte may say it all!! I don't see any interest at all from that group. I can just hear the two emeritus members extolling the virtues of Div 3. They are Rothkopf disciples.
Kpard

There is one certainty....it is time for a change. It just is. Crying or Very sad
Pardsfriend

Football program

NE Leopard wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
What is consistently wrong with the program is that other teams put better players on the field than we do. Whether this is due to recruiting or development or both is the issue.


That is part of it. And both of those things Frank is accountable.


Overall the recruits are as good as the rest of the PL schools. Most came from winning HS programs and had multiple offers from PL, Ivy, and CAA schools. My feeling it has more to do with scheme and utilizing the talent in the right way. Yes, it would be great to have a featured back like a Chase Edmonds, but until we change up the scheme, and get a running game, we will continue to lose. On the defensive side, we continue to get shredded. It looked like a youth football game yesterday, 700+ total yards is embarrassing.



Change is needed no doubt, the powers at be need to figure out where it can be done, and quickly...

This has little to do with institutional funding of two scholarships .  I Agree with NELeopard and LB10.  The talent is here, the culture and scheme must be changed.
BPard

ed65 wrote:
Clearly the powers at be especially the AD (who is playing out the string til retirement and Diorio who shouldn't have the job and clearly doesn't care) aren't listening.  They don't want to rock the boat and put their careers in jeopardy.
Since Diorio staunched the bleeding on fraternities and oversaw the first fraternity coming back in two decades, I don't think it's fair to say she's unwilling to rock the boat. With close and strong alumni support, she quite literally reversed the boat very suddenly with more than a few rocks along the way.

I've posted before that it's our ass backwards athletics org structure (compared to the rest of PL) with commensurate staff (or lack thereof in terms of quality, focus, and fire) that is the central cause.

Only Byerly and the Board can fix that.

Edit: upon reflection, Diorio could start remedying the staff issue. So she bears responsibility for not holding athletics staff accountable. However, she can't fix the org structure.

At least we don't have student athletes (including football players) getting hooked up to ventilators every other week anymore from trying to drink themselves to death. That was routine only 3 years ago.
ed65

bpard: I completely disagree with you about Diorio.  The only reason that the Fraternity situation got fixed is bec. Byerly made the smart decision not to piss off alumni by continuing to attack frats.  She supports the theme oriented living arrangements that are popular at many schools today.  At best, Diorio was carrying out orders.  To say that she "reversed the boat" is giving her much too much credit.  The reason she should not be involved with athletics is she doesn't know anything about athletics and doesn't have the ball to take on the very entrenched anti-athletics board members, admin and faculty (with that idiot Rothkopf continuing his nattering about D-3 in the background).

I agree with you that the org structure is just plain wrong so we need to figure out a way to fix it.  I have lots of suggestions that I have made to many board members and will continue to do so.  We need a new AD (not McKittrick) and anyone from outside who would be acceptable would never take the job without reporting to the President.
BPard

You are wrong. Byerly made final decision on Greek Life but Diorio did provide leadership on the issue. It would not have been possible without her. And she did stick her neck out.

Giving her lumps over Athletics is fair but your case is stronger if you do give credit where it is due.

I haven't talked to her about it, but does anyone know if she even wants Athletics in her Division? Would she support elevating the AD position with a strategic hire? I could see her actually supporting an idea like this rather than fighting it.
Pards Rule

Athletics needs to report directly to the President...
ed65

Pards Rule wrote:
Athletics needs to report directly to the President...


Amen.
ed65

BPard wrote:
You are wrong. Byerly made final decision on Greek Life but Diorio did provide leadership on the issue. It would not have been possible without her. And she did stick her neck out.

Giving her lumps over Athletics is fair but your case is stronger if you do give credit where it is due.

I haven't talked to her about it, but does anyone know if she even wants Athletics in her Division? Would she support elevating the AD position with a strategic hire? I could see her actually supporting an idea like this rather than fighting it.


bpard: how can I possibly be wrong when you admit that Byerly made the decision on frats.  In fact, she heard so much criticism about it after she accepted the job and before she started that it was a very easy decision to make.  Now perhaps you know more than I do about the inner workings of the frat situation but I stand by Byerly making the smart decision from the get go about not pissing off more alums on the frat issue.  Diorio is a scrivener at best, a bureaucratic stooge who needs to get as far away from the athletic program as possible.  If she had any real read of the situation (or even cared about it) she would realize that it is time for Bruce to go.
bethlehempard

These guys obviously don't know Lafayette:

http://www.espn.com/ncf/story?id=...s%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F%22%7D

See paragraph 6.
Colgate's collapse is also noted.
BPard

Quote:
bpard: how can I possibly be wrong when you admit that Byerly made the decision on frats.

You're wrong when you say Diorio shouldn't have the job and won't rock the boat. Now if you actually meant that Athletics shouldn't be reporting to her position - I agree with that (but it's not what you initially said).

In terms of fraternities - the turnaround began before Byerly was selected. Diorio's leadership changed the direction of IAGGL - which was a Board of Trustees directive. This was still under Weiss. She rocked the boat. She got it into a position where it was possible for Byerly to make a good decision.

Give credit where it is due. Especially since that can serve as a model for how to move forward on Athletics.

Disappointing to be basically reliving this thread less than a year later. Has there been any progress or improvement? Anywhere?

Budgets requests are due this month. Are coaches requesting an increase from Bruce? Is Bruce requesting one from Diorio?

As of last year, we spend 80% of the Patriot League average on a per student-athlete basis. We spend less than everyone but Bucknell on a per student-athlete basis. Maybe we get what we pay for.
WVPard

Folks, all I know is that this is heartbreaking.  I venture to guess that Ole Kolleval is spinning in his grave, God rest his soul.  If losing was purely a football issue, then I would solely blame Frank.  I know that he shoulders the burden for that sport.  However, the Chart doesn't lie.  Nor do the daily Updates of Misery from goleopards.com.  The fact is, institutional losing does no one any good.  One major reason that I chose LC over a number of other really good options, is that IT WON.

But, I recently sat in a meeting with one of our young, bright eyed and bushy tailed admissions reps, who touted our 27% acceptance rate and record setting admissions receipts.  I can only assume that the folks inside Markle Hall really don't care, so long as large checks get drafted by alums and the admissions apps remain high.  Heck, one of the selling points is that we have 25% of the student population participating in D-1 athletics.  To his credit, he did say, "Let's not talk about our record."

Unfortunately, I think they are missing a great opportunity to market the school, without spending marketing $$, thanks to the innumerable media outlets for college sports.  Thanks to on-field successes, schools like North Dakota State, Eastern Washington, and Richmond have become part of the national sports vernacular.
Leopard Loyalist

Given the overall mediocre (at best) and dreadful (at worst) athletic scorecard, given the demonstrable decline in student interest, given the inevitable aging of the alumni base with some vested interest in Lafayette having a truly competitive D-I athletic programs--Is anyone willing to bet against the prospect of becoming D-III by, say, 2035? (I understand it is risky to imagine the shape of intercollegiate sports--or anything else--twenty years from now.)
BPard

Leopard Loyalist wrote:
Is anyone willing to bet against the prospect of becoming D-III by, say, 2035?
Yes, I'd bet against that.
flyfisher

WVPard wrote:
Folks, all I know is that this is heartbreaking.  I venture to guess that Ole Kolleval is spinning in his grave, God rest his soul.  If losing was purely a football issue, then I would solely blame Frank.  I know that he shoulders the burden for that sport.  However, the Chart doesn't lie.  Nor do the daily Updates of Misery from goleopards.com.  The fact is, institutional losing does no one any good.  One major reason that I chose LC over a number of other really good options, is that IT WON.

But, I recently sat in a meeting with one of our young, bright eyed and bushy tailed admissions reps, who touted our 27% acceptance rate and record setting admissions receipts.  I can only assume that the folks inside Markle Hall really don't care, so long as large checks get drafted by alums and the admissions apps remain high.  Heck, one of the selling points is that we have 25% of the student population participating in D-1 athletics.  To his credit, he did say, "Let's not talk about our record."

Unfortunately, I think they are missing a great opportunity to market the school, without spending marketing $$, thanks to the innumerable media outlets for college sports.  Thanks to on-field successes, schools like North Dakota State, Eastern Washington, and Richmond have become part of the national sports vernacular.


Some good comments here. Your one comment sums it up best...losing isn't just in football. Its across the whole athletic department. Sure, Frank has some responsibility but only for football. Who is accountable for the other 22 sports?  For the record, Frank does raise a ton of money for the school and he is passionate about it. But you still have to win.

The frats is a different situation. Ive heard enough stories about the frats and it was out of hand. way too much drug use and just general substance abuse. Way to much exposure for the College.  However I can tell you that colleges in the South, both public and private are expanding Greek Life. many are finding it helps attracts students and increases revenues. Some schools are charging more for housing in Greek Life. Richmond just build some brand new sororities and N C State is building large, brand new southern colonial frat houses an soroities. All cost more than the typical dorm. Both colleges did studies and found a higher percentage of students in Greek life gave more money and were more ap to contribute than students in dorms. I tend to follow this as I have been an alumni advisor for many years.

Greek life has to change their ways a little. I cant be all about parties. You have to ask yourself, why is this good for the College? You have to do lots of community service work. Not only is it the right thing to do but you keep the school in a good light. Greek life has to have leadership that doesn't tolerate abusive behavior. people need to understand that a few can ruin it for the masses. Greek life can't and probably shouldn't go back to the social behavior many of us came up in. But there is some common ground. Doesn't have to always be about money but long term a strong Greek program increase yearly revenues as well as future donations.
Bogus Megapardus







BillS

NewXbo wrote:
NO Frank should not announce his retirement tomorrow. Frank has been with the program for many years. He did a lot of good things involving the football program. Frank was the force behind scholarships, Frank got a revised and improved stadium, Frank got the football building (The Palace), Frank got a new field, used by multiple sports teams.

To suggest that he retire tomorrow is not fair considering all he has done for the football program.

No one has been able to clearly tell us what's wrong with the program. Is it recruits? Andy and others have researched our recruits over the past 4 or 5 years. They have all had offers from other schools similar or better than the Patriot League. We have lost some good coaches.

Is it the assistant coaches? Some have been around for significant time, others are new. Has he kept some too long, are their development and leadership skills out of date.

To ask him to quit tomorrow is outright cruel. He deserves more.

I think Frank deserves to end his career at the end of the season with a win over Lehigh.  The coaches and players owe it to him.
I agree!

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