Liberty Game Thread

The Maroon · Liberty Game Thread

John Leone seems a bit nervous....I think the fact that they are showing this game in Lynchburg has him thinking he's made the big-time.

So they have a 377 pound lineman? Good God...

Pard94

Anyone having any luck with All Access or Channel Surfing,net?

Sly Fox

None of the video feeds are working for us. In fact, channelsurfing.net has removed the game from their lineup.

Incidentally we have a good group talking about the game on our board:

http://www.flamefans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13801

Pard94

Wow...Rodriguez is officially spooked. We were hanging tough but field position is killing us. Still within striking distance.

Pard94

This is the difference between a full scholarship team and the PL. They are just faster theyn we are. Plain and simple.

Sly Fox

Incidentally the channelsurfing.net feed is up ... albeit with tinny audio.

Pard94

Well...it happened exactly as I said it wouldn't. Lafayette lost in a close one. I'm sure Carney has already thrown himself off of the 25th Street Bridge by I come away from this game encouraged. We hung tough with a team that hung tough with WVU. It was clear they were faster and more athletic on the whole than us (as to be expected). I think we saw talent tonight better than we'll see for the rest of the year (from top to bottom). I'm enthusuatic for the rest of the year!

65Pard

You have to wonder how that early missed field goal affected the psychological dynamics of the game....Give our guys credit for never giving up....
Saw some real talent and big play ability against a very good team....

Penn will be tough as right now they are hanging with Nova, but a good effort at home could well give us that win.....we look like we are for real and certainly capable of a PL championship...

Wait, HC beat Harvard.....

carney2

Final: Liberty 19, Lafayette 13

I much prefer winning to losing, but the Pards were simply overmatched and put up a good fight. I am feeling just a little more confident about our chances the rest of the way.

DFW HOYA · )

2-4 for the PL this week:

Holy Cross over Harvard
Colgate over Dartmouth

Cornell over Bucknell
Yale over Georgetown
Columbia over Fordham
Liberty over Lafayette

carney2 · Re: )

Newleopardfan

Well, here's my take: our D held strong. They were on the field all night. The Liberty QB, #10, was spectacular - running and passing. Liberty wide receiver, #1, was unstoppable. That's what all those scholarships buy you. Still, we held on several key 3rd downs, even deep in our territory. On O, our receivers showed flashes of brilliance. Really, a few catches that must end up on ESPN highlights. Specials showed positives and negatives. Davis flat out hooked an easy FG that I agree knocked the early wind out of us, and I'm sure memories of the last 3 fruitless GT drives were still there. After that series, I watched an O lineman smash his helmet down in frustration. Then, Davis had a PAT blocked, and his on-side attempt was, well, high school. On the other hand, Tom K had a very solid game, probably averaging in the low forties, didn't rely on rolls, and put up his last one for a nice hang time. Our kick offs were short "pooch" kicks that let Liberty start with good field position. I must say, I don't understand Frank's decision to kick a PAT after the first TD, down 16-6. Why not go for 2? Make it and you're one score back; miss it and you're no worse off. That one baffles me. Anybody? Final note: the Liberty band budget almost certainly exceeds our entire football budget. Next week: PENN Saturday; Lehigh JV scrimmage Sunday. A 2-fer!

Pard4Life

I think we blew this one, scholarships be dammed. Layton and Stripe catches should have been TDs. We decided to punt again on first down... Lehigh game memories anyone? Play calling was terrible again in the first half. And why didn't we boot it deep after we scored in the 4th quarter? One first down and they were in FG range and game over... Stop them in their terriotory and we get field position. Kickoffs were terrible overall and a big reason why we lost.

Penn will not be easy.

If I ever get a million I am donating a band. Nice atmosphere with them there.

65Pard

[quote="Newleopardfan"]WI don't understand Frank's decision to kick a PAT after the first TD, down 16-6. Why not go for 2? Make it and you're one score back; miss it and you're no worse off. That one baffles me. Anybody?

Only explanation: Not kicking there sends a message to the kicker and the team that coach doesn't think he can now make an extra point, much less a later game winning field goal.

Not kicking deep with 3 minutes and 3 timeouts left is baffling....either way our D had to stop them.

Lafalum

I wasn't able to make it in person but the missed field goal was the key to the game. It also looked to me like Liberty was not expecting the deep throws. Our recievers were awsome yesterday.

seenalot

Saw first game in over a year up close. Observations in no order.

Not a footnall kicker myself but Davis is not nearly as upright when he hits ball as he was in prior years. Suspect he is going to get replaced this week - his head in addition to mechanics are not right.

Had toss to Layton been better it would have been a score - LU had a blown coverage but was over thrown and he was lucky to come up with it at all. Not sure I agree with Stripe comment - he was all twisted with defenders all around. All in all I think Curley did a decent job - INT was badly thrown, but thats about it.

We had no answer for #1 - Fein take note re: same for plays to MBennett - and they isolated him on kid with one hand wrapped repeatedly as wrapping him up with two hands would have been tough enough.

Kicking game (not punting at all) hurt us last night - both in terms of coaching and execution - pooch to the 40 dont save squat.

In first half it felt as if they were playing not to lose - no spark, way too conservation play calling. Using pass to try to set up run in 2nd was better,but they shut down our run all nite long. Thats a BIG front line with very quick closing backers. Our delays were getting eatin alive. Coon as up guy in "I" quick hits worked a few times but we only ran it 2-3 times.

Would have liked to see more of Butler spying on Brown, but thats a heck of an athlete no matter where you put him.

Suspect we lost Kyle Simmons for a while - but we seem deep back there.

Newleopardfan

Re:

"Not a footnall kicker myself but Davis is not nearly as upright when he hits ball as he was in prior years. Suspect he is going to get replaced this week - his head in addition to mechanics are not right."

I'd be shocked if they replaced him. Based on stats, kicking decisions on this team appear to be made differently from any other position -- more on "seniority" and "loyalty" than on numbers and performance. There isn't a kicker on the entire coaching squad, so I don't think mechanics comes into play in this decision. But I hope you're right.

Re:

"In first half it felt as if they were playing not to lose - no spark, way too conservation play calling. Using pass to try to set up run in 2nd was better,but they shut down our run all nite long."

I gotta say that I think our guys played HUGE but our play calling was just a little baffling. Compared to their offense, ours looked 2-dimensional, way too conservative, and inflexible. They had 3 viable options on every snap. Of course, #10 is really an option QB. Still, there were soft spots in their secondary that we could have taken advantage of in the first half, had we even known about them... And while I understand the psychological message of going for 2 vs. a PAT, my answer is that if you make the 2 point conversion, you may never have to kick the last minute FG: you can tie it with one score. OK, I'll leave the rest to the professionals...

Franks Tanks

notleo

my 2 cents:

D played too soft and couldn't cover #1, how many time did HE beat us? Liberty QB never threw down field, just short 3-7 yds passes, we couldn't cover, (too much cushion).

Offense, agree with earlier post, in 1st half, played to conservative. played too flat, even the crowd was subdued. Opening drive in 2nd half encouraging, drove down field with fire and confidence.

Franks Tanks

Newleopardfan

Re: the Liberty band budget almost certainly exceeds our entire football budget.

FT: "The Leopard FB budget is actually quite high when compared with the rest of FCS. We spend more money than schools like Georgia Southern."

I'm sure you're right. I was exaggerating. But the band was very impressive. And that was their traveling band.

Pard94

Our band budget rivals our budget for the ultimate frisbee team.

Xboreturns

My thoughts:

The offensive line did not do a good job in springing our running backs. 70 yards on 28 carries will not get it done.

Curley was a very efficient 14 for 20 for 216 yards. However he overthrew to Layton who was 10 yards behind the secondary and would have had a sure TD. And underthrew to Stripe who was just clearing the secondary for what may have been another TD. Big plays win big games.

The defense was steady after the first drive. Holding any team to 19 points should win you the game. Libertys big wideout (Summers?) was a handful. When I first saw him I thought it was former Eagle Harold Carmichael.

Liberty's QB Brown did a very nice job, had a strong arm and put the ball where his receivers could catch it.

If the team let a missed field goal get them down then we have a major problem.

Yes the Liberty band was awesome, I counted more than 200 musicians, most of them brass players. It was like being at a Big 10 game. But it should be noted that Lafayette has a new pep band director and they had 40+ members, most of them brass players. A big improvement over the last few years.

Franks Tanks

Also I did notice former Eagle Vaughn Hebron at the game. The guy looked like he can still strap it up.

carney2

OK, I'll chip in with my observations;

Probably a winnable game as some have pointed out, but I'm not all that "down" about it. I think the team proved that they will be able to play with anyone on the schedule.

The Kiddie Korps of receivers emerged from the shadows. Layton, Stripe, Bennett and Padia had 11 catches among them, with some real big time circus grabs included. Even Padia showed up. This may actually be the group that we hoped it would be two years ago.

Personally, I thought the O-line was OK, and that's about as good as we can hope for from this group. That's not a knock. It's a complement. I now have hope that we will muddle through with this bunch.

Rodriguez has moved from question to problem. It may very well be time to say, "Kid, we like you, but we like to win even more. Take a seat while we see what Swerdlow has to offer." We can switch back to him if it we have to, but things are getting serious.

I hope you noticed that Liberty's freshman QB made a living out of flat passes and quick outs. I understand that our secondary is loaded with low experience sophomores, and that aggressive coverage with Liberty-quality receivers would probably be rewarded with getting beat deep, but we are going to see a steady diet of this crap if Loose doesn't do something about that soft coverage.

What's the deal with coaches when they are trapped against their own goal line? Why does "protect the ball" always seem to trump "get it the hell out of here!"? Once you call a QB sneak on 1st down, what are you left with? You have just admitted that your insecurity forces you to give the ball back to the other team at the exact place that they had it when they kicked, but this time with a 1st down instead of a 4th. It was an out and out gift of 6 points (the PAT was blocked) with no attempt to prevent it. You have an experienced QB who knows, or should know, not to do anything stupid with the ball. Take some calculated risks if you want to win some games. Idiocy straight from a 19th century play book - and mindset.

I thought the defense lived up to their hype. Poulson and Dell are as good a duo as we've had on the inside - in my opinion.

Andy

Franks Tanks

carney2

Pard94

pards48

After reading Rineharts article in the paper it kind of confirmed my thoughts. The field goal was more then makeable, but we don't realize what a high snap and tough hold does for a kicker. I'm not saying it's ok he missed it, but the kicker gets blamed no matter what even when it's not his fault sometimes. The kid just can't catch a break as of late. it's tough to watch, especially after how great he was last year. Is their a new snapper? new holder? We need to get it figured out so he can get back to his old self.

Franks Tanks

Andy

cr

Being a transplanted midwesterner I love a band. I am with Carney and will root for Libery, unless they play a Patriot school. Too bad we don't have them in the size and scope that the southern or midwestern schools have.

Newleopardfan

[quote="Franks Tanks"]

Pards Rule

[quote="Newleopardfan"]

DaveR

[quote="Pards Rule"]

Pards Rule

[quote="DaveR"]

pards48

[quote="Pards Rule"][quote="Newleopardfan"][quote="Franks Tanks"][quote="pards48"]After reading Rineharts article in the paper it kind of confirmed my thoughts. The field goal was more then makeable, but we don't realize what a high snap and tough hold does for a kicker. I'm not saying it's ok he missed it, but the kicker gets blamed no matter what even when it's not his fault sometimes. The kid just can't catch a break as of late. it's tough to watch, especially after how great he was last year. Is their a new snapper? new holder? We need to get it figured out so he can get back to his old self.[/quote]

Well, Rinehart also said, "He placed the field-goal kicking tee on the 7-yard line", which is silly, since there is no field-goal kicking tee in college. The snapper and holder are the same as last year, and the snap and hold were perfect on the blocked PAT. Anyway, it is what it is. The saying goes that every kicker is one kick away from getting cut. I guess not so at LC. I also agree that the LC xylophone coming out its case was one of the defining moments of the game.[/quote]

Newpard: I read the article and he did use a kicking tee - but at halftime practicing - and he set it up at the 7 for a 17 yd. try. The writer was apparently amazed that his confidence was so shot he was trying the equivalent of six inch putts.[/quote]

Pards were you at the game? He had no room to warm up at halftime. Liberty's band was taking up the whole field and it looked pretty clear that he was trying to stay out of their way as they performed. I saw him go back farther and have to move mid kick because they were coming towards him. I don't think it has anything to do at all with confidence, I'm pretty sure it was a space thing. As for the extra point, it looked fine to me besides their being a Liberty player in our backfield before the kick was even taken. I just hope the kid isn't letting all this stuff get to him, because this is what makes kickers bad, no one really even mentioned our kicker much last year, but now that he's having a down begining of the year everyone is saying he needs to be benched. I feel bad for the kid, hopefully he puts it together if not someone else will need to step up. Someone said we have the same snapper and holder, but that was wrong, Plenski was our snapper last year, was very good to, Rodriguez mentioned him being the best he's ever had in an interview last year. Wojik is the snapper now with Cosgrove holding as he did last year. Cosgrove might be switching roles to kicker soon enough though. I'm still rooting for Rodriguez to snap out of this funk. Hopefully he'll go back to freshman year and have a game like he did against PENN again! (hopeful thinking)

Andy

I'm definitely not ready to see Davis replaced, but as you guys point out, there IS added pressure now and he appears to be a sensitive kid. Hopefully, back to reliable Davis this week.

Also, despite their great play on the first punt (and very lucky bounce), let's not fair catch any more punts on the 3 yd line.

DaveR

ranger

To Frank's Tanks RE: Football Budget comment- Would love details and comparison to FCS. There is no transparancy at Lafayette regarding budget numbers on anything. If you have them please share with a link or specifics. We all would greatly appreciate these. Percentages for Lafayette must be high due to size of student body, but, in absolute dollars I would be shocked. Thanks for any details you can share.

Franks Tanks

carney2

Pards Rule

Pards48, yes I was at the game but at the half I was wandering about filling my mouth with overpriced pretzels. So my perspective was how the writer worded the article. If he had then written "because the 200 member Spirit of the Mountain band was nearly taking up the whole field" I would have understood his needing to attempt a 17 yarder. Unfortunately the writer left me with the impression I posted above. I dont mean to denegrate Mr. Rodriguez - it was just my (wrong) impression from reading the article before I was corrected about the circumstances.

Pards Rule

Continuing, I found the article by Mr. Reinhard. "He placed the field goal kicking tee on the 7 yard line. Thats right - he was practicing a 17 yard field goal.
Rodriguez's woes - he missed his fourth straight field goal (and later had a PAT blocked) - were a microcosm of those felt by the Leopards..."

It seems Mr. Paul Reinhart was missing the bands influence too.

Andy

"Football Expenses" year ending 6/30/08 per ope.ed.gov:

Fordham $4.61 million
Colgate 4.03
Lafayette 3.33
Lehigh 3.31
HC 3.29
Bucknell 3.00

Liberty 5.72
Delaware 5.19
Richmond 4.46
Nova 4.23
UMass 3.87
AppSt 3.55
New Hamp 3.36
Elon 3.15
Stony Br 2.71
Ga South 2.20
SUNY AL 1.60

What will our # look like for yr end 6/09 and beyond? That is the question.

Lafalum

I also think that includes aid so at the schools with higher tuition the numbers are somewhat decieving meaning the net not including athletic related aid which is the core expenditure for coaches, equipment, travel, and recruiting. Aid is important but if there were no football team that aid would still be there and spent for students.
For example, the 3.87 mio at UMASS goes alot further than it would at Lafayette.

Pards Rule

Yeah I saw the Flames had at least one full uniformed "Liberty University Police" guy with them in the locker room.

Franks Tanks

Pards Rule

Franks Tanks

carney2

Pards Rule

Yes - but ever since Heff left he hasnt felt like playing.

Franks Tanks

Liberty Game Thread

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Re: )