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pards123

NCAA Tournament Second Round - In Game

Are these refs serious? 3 bad calls in a row against the Leopards.
Franks Tanks

Re: NCAA Tournament Second Round - In Game

pards123 wrote:
Are these refs serious? 3 bad calls in a row against the Leopards.


Pretty Bad on those calls.

Nova is doing everything they can to take away the 3.  I think we only attempted one so far.  Trist is playing tough down low
2012Pard

Down 38-22 with 3:29 left in the half.
Bogus Megapardus

Look at it this way - at least the announcer isn't calling our coach "Frank" any longer.
BillS

2012Pard wrote:
Down 38-22 with 3:29 left in the half.
lafayette fans very enthusiastic even though we're down by 23 at the half, come on guy's we can still win this in the second half! Hey Carney wherever you are don't throw in the towel just yet  Laughing
Bogus Megapardus

BillS wrote:
don't throw in the towel just yet


Forget the towel.  How 'bout an entire bed sheet.
bethlehempard

Team Stats
Team Stats LAF VILL
Shooting 9-22 (.409) 20-32 (.625)
3PT Shooting 2-9 (.222) 6-12 (.500)
Free Throws 6-6 (1.000) 3-5 (.600)
Rebounds 1-8 6-18
Assists 7 13
Steals 1 2
Blocks 0 1
Turnovers 6 3

With as much scoring inside as we had I would have expected to be a little closer. Nail those 3s.
Great night and nice work by those fans in Pittsburgh. Audible enthusiasm.
Bogus Megapardus

Shooting %age is going to have to be close to 75% (including 3 pt.) in the second half to make a game of it
Pard4Life

I threw in the towel when it was 11-2. Tried to keep my dinner down when Nova went inside twice.
bethlehempard

We are what we are; the big frustration here is the number of no-shot possessions. Put it up! We're a longshot. Not a thing to lose.
Dan is making a name for himself tonight.
Bogus Megapardus

Klinewski is one tough kid.  Gotta like him going forward next year.
bethlehempard

Next year:
Nick
Klinewski
...
Bryce?
Monty?
Nate?
Hoffman?

Maybe a Chipman four-guard setup. Maybe ...
Pard4Life

Why are these clowns still shooting 3s?

Anyone know the record for points and margin of defeat?
Bogus Megapardus

bethlehempard wrote:
Next year:
Nick
Klinewski
...
Bryce?
Monty?
Nate?
Hoffman?

Maybe a Chipman four-guard setup. Maybe ...


Must have a forward to compliment Klinewski.

Klinewski (replaces Trist)
??? (Hinrichs)
Scott (Scott)
Boykins (Ptasinski)
Linder (Linder)

Rufer is the sixth man to spell Boykins.  Hoffman to spell Klinewski.  Big Nate Musters as necessary.

Paulius Zalys, Sam Dunkum and Auston Evans will compete for the Hinrichs spot, I guess.  Otherwise it's Michael Hoffman.

Yet to see what Eric Stafford has.
bethlehempard

Pard4Life wrote:
Why are these clowns still shooting 3s?

Anyone know the record for points and margin of defeat?


69. We are safe!

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/ncaatournablowout.html

Nice to see Nate score.
Bogus Megapardus

Two mins to go - goes 'Nova go for the Large?  Embarrass alum O'Hanlon?
pards123

Oh well. Good season. Congrats to the seniors on their accomplishments.
Bogus Megapardus

Congrats to Lafayette basketball, to Coach Fran O'Hanlon and his staff and to all the players (especially the seniors).   The Humble Little College on the Hill is proud.

Onward, upward and forward.  GO PARDS!!!!!
bethlehempard

AU lost by 40 last year. A point ahead of us.
No league team would have done much better tonight. Their 3-point shooting was devastating.
Go Pards!
BillS

pards123 wrote:
Oh well. Good season. Congrats to the seniors on their accomplishments.
yes awesome job seniors and good luck in the future ! We have a great group of kids returning and 3 Awesome athletic recruits coming in the future looks bright for Fran and company. ..
Bogus Megapardus

And to all the hand-wringing fans of Bucknell, Colgate, Lehigh, AU, Metropolitan College and whomever else . . . you're wrong.  Absolutely Lafayette deserved to be there and were positioned to take on that game better than any other PL team this season.  It was a lopsided score in the end and certainly we were "off" tonight, but we were the right team.
carney2

BillS wrote:
Hey Carney wherever you are don't throw in the towel just yet


No towel.  These guys gave us one of our two bright spots/magic moments of 2014-2015.  They are to be commended.
Pard4Life

Post game Nova radio guys said the game was "too big" for Lindner and cited his stats. They gave him props after reviewing his PL tourney performance on tape and just attributed it to being a sophomore.  It was clear shutting him down was their plan. Overall radio guys gave us credit but said Nova was just bringing it tonight and Lindner had to carry us.

Good season. Memories of last Wednesday and now we trumped our three major nemesis will last a long while.
bethlehempard

We've had a few moments in two years.  
The title. Beating Bucknell twice and once on the road.
The women beat Lehigh.
FB beating Lehigh twice, Colgate and Fordham once each. The title.
It would be nice to have a few moments in the other sports.
Our day will come.
I need another drink.
2 ounces of vodka.
Some freshly ground pepper.
8 ounces of tomato juice.
Dash of Tabasco, Worcestershire and some celery salt.
Fresh lemon wedge. Garnish with squeezed wedge.
Omit the vodka for a tasty social alternative beverage.

All those driving back east tomorrow be prepared for bad weather and give extra time for the trip.
Lacrosse at home Saturday. Go Pards!
Franks Tanks

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
And to all the hand-wringing fans of Bucknell, Colgate, Lehigh, AU, Metropolitan College and whomever else . . . you're wrong.  Absolutely Lafayette deserved to be there and were positioned to take on that game better than any other PL team this season.  It was a lopsided score in the end and certainly we were "off" tonight, but we were the right team.


Don't you love that?  Yes Bucknell fans you guys would've done so much better, despite the fact that you lost to Lafayette twice this year  Rolling Eyes

Nova is just on a roll right now.  They beat St. John's by 37 recently, and blew out other Big East teams.
Kpard

Great year. 20 wins, PL champion, final game at home. 3 - 1,000 pt scorers. 2 all PL academic first teamers. NCAA appearance.
Congrats and best wishes to these seniors.
Bogus Megapardus

bethlehempard wrote:
I need another drink.


McEwan's Ale with a nice Balvenie Speyside tonight.  I splurged, and now I can feel it.  Trouble seeing the keyboard.

Go Pardz . . . .
bethlehempard

I like the Doublewood too. No expert just a drinker. It will be perfect for tomorrow's $&@&$ snowstorm.
Perhaps the goodwill and publicity of this week will help with our programs.
It's hard to put a value on publicity and there is the school of thought that if something can't be measured it doesn't exist.
No matter what I feel good for our seniors and the other guys who got to be part of this.
Also it was good to see Flannigan take the floor.
Next year... Well .... Bottom's up.
Pard4Life

Yeah so many people were hyped about Lafayette this week.  Can't measure the goodwill of that!  Nothing gets people excited as much as NCAA basketball.
Bogus Megapardus

Dr. Byerly rocks the Leopard print after the game.



(Rick Smith - GoLeopards.com)
Kpard

Wish we would have made a better showing, but, we did look good at times.
The reality is only one team is finishing this tournament with a win. Our guys made it here.  Very Happy
Lafalum

Nice turnout at the game and they were supportive throughout. Many fans including Jim Finneran took the bus from Easton.

I had one disappointment ( aside from the outcome), only four cheerleaders made it to the game, including one cheerleader who had to wear a boot the whole game ( props to her). The others ( as recognized by President Byerly at a pre game reception) chose to go to "warmer climes."  I think if you choose to wear the uniform in  an activity you have an obligation to follow through. You have be an example.  But maybe I don't understand today's student.( or maybe I do)

To our seniors thanks for the championship and their efforts on the court. Many of them played with pain throughout the season. A special shout out to Dan Trist who was the man even last night.
ed65

Upon reflection after a night of beer consumption at the Joshua Tree in Manhattan where there were 60-70 LC fans in attendance, the Leopards got absolutely smoked by the Villanova scholars (well, they did not look like scholars to me - several looked like they were at least 30 years old).  

Jay Wright had an excellent game plan by shutting down the LC point guard and continuing their excellent shooting.  Also, Seth had a terrible game and simply does not play like 6'8.  We really miss having a tough big guy to help Trist with the rebounding.  Speaking of Dan, he played a great game and was even up off the bench cheering on the subs at the end of the game.  He has improved tremendously in his LC career.  I thought Boykins made some nifty moves to the basket but could not finish.

While Villanova shot really well (their shooting percentage must have been very high). They played some really good defense as well.

I've always thought Villanova would be a great fit for the PL BUT the league would most likely have to reduce the AI because clearly 'Nova has some place to hide those basketball players.  Could any of the starters be accepted at LC, LU, Colgate, Bucknell or HC?  Or the service academies for that matter?  Maybe Bison 137 can provide some insight on the academic credentials of the Noval starters.
Franks Tanks

[quote="ed65:47215"]Upon reflection after a night of beer consumption at the Joshua Tree in Manhattan where there were 60-70 LC fans in attendance, the Leopards got absolutely smoked by the Villanova scholars (well, they did not look like scholars to me - several looked like they were at least 30 years old).  

Jay Wright had an excellent game plan by shutting down the LC point guard and continuing their excellent shooting.  Also, Seth had a terrible game and simply does not play like 6'8.  We really miss having a tough big guy to help Trist with the rebounding.  Speaking of Dan, he played a great game and was even up off the bench cheering on the subs at the end of the game.  He has improved tremendously in his LC career.  I thought Boykins made some nifty moves to the basket but could not finish.

While Villanova shot really well (their shooting percentage must have been very high). They played some really good defense as well.

I've always thought Villanova would be a great fit for the PL BUT the league would most likely have to reduce the AI because clearly 'Nova has some place to hide those basketball players.  Could any of the starters be accepted at LC, LU, Colgate, Bucknell or HC?  Or the service academies for that matter?  Maybe Bison 137 can provide some insight on the academic credentials of the Noval starters.[/quote]

First none of their starters would want to go to any of those schools.

Hilliard, from Bethlehem Liberty High School, was recruited by Fran until it was clear he would be a major conference recruit.  Could he get in?  Not sure, but Fran seemed to think so. Nova, and some other schools in the Big East, do a better job than most on the academic side.
Lafalum

I agree with Franks on this. We are falling into a trap with the " if they are good they must not be smart," It's a little elitist. and it implies that good athletic teams must mean poor academics.  They were better than us and given the overwhelming victory there was no chest thumping etc. From the coach on down from the seats and my vantage point a class act.
carney2

Waiting for Steve, but it appeared that 'nova won it at the defensive end more than on offense:

'nova gave Lindner no room to operate.  When he ended up throwing two away early you kind of had the feeling it would be a long night.

They extended their defense and chased the 3 point shooters.  Jay Wright said in his halftime interview that he wanted fresh bodies out there to keep the pressure on the 3.  Let's face it, big time recruits are usually just quicker, so add the fresh legs to that equation, and ...

By extending the perimeter Villanova seemed willing to give away some things inside.  I actually think that they counted on their big guys handling Trist.  He more than held his own in my opinion, but the rest of the 'nova thinking I guess was "he can't beat us by himself."

A fun and exciting few weeks and a big thank you to Fran and the team.  This is one of the key roles of athletics in a D-1 American college environment.  We need to see more of it at Lafayette.
Refrider

I was able to be at the game.  While I was disappointed with the final score, I was not disappointed in our team.  They gave us a season that will be remember for awhile.  One of the best moments of appreciation was when the Lafayette fans cheered the Lafayette players as they walked off the court, and in returned, the players waved and gave applause back to their fans.  
Now the bus ride home for me was another story....   Smile
Congratulations to Fran, coaches, and players for providing us with a memorable season.  2014-2015 Patriot League Champions!!!!
LC Fan

Nothing should detract from the team's accomplishments. They surprised many of us. Against PL teams in the PL tourney the team played tight defense by staying inside the three point line and on offense they played aggressively by driving to the basket. For whatever reason FOH's strategy against Nova was to chase the guards all over the court leaving us vulnerable in the paint where we have no athletes to compare with Nova. While Nova hit many open threes by rubbing off the defenders, it was the easy layups that made us look like we didn't belong. On offense we were totally intimidated near the basket and Lindner in particular decided he couldn't penetrate. Accordingly, we relied on rushed threes and jump shots. Why FOH thought we should change our defensive strategy that had been effective in the past few games is my question. Regardless, it was men vs boys yesterday....very nice smart boys but still boys!
SixtyEighter

The magnitude of the loss was very disconcerting until I noticed a little note at the bottom of the sports page of the Inquirer under "This Day in Sports History"0 or some such parenthetical feature -" March 20 1980 Vilanova beats Penn 93-47 (or some such score)". That gave some perspective. Villanova has 52 NCAA tournament wins to our zero.Although it was close Harvard lost , too. The Ivies and the Patriot League are just not on that level no matter how good some random team one of the schools may field.It is the same in football-We will never beat North Dakota or even New Hampshire for that matter,
     
It was obvious from the start that our players could not penetrate Villanova's defense and that to a man every one of their players was bigger and bulkier than every one of our players including Trist and Klinewski. Klinewski tied hard to mix it up with them and succeeded but also ended up with a bloody nose for his efforts - but I was very glad to see him battle.Trist tried not to be dominated but he was banged around like he was a guard.Even Archidiacono the guard was built like a tight and and tall.
Kpard

Nova just beat St. Johns and Marquette by 37 & 35 respectively. They are obviously playing at an extremely high level right now.

What was a little upsetting was their continuing to full court press with their starters still in and up by 40 +. The rationale that Coach Jay had so much respect for our 3 pt shooting is a bunch of you know what. With 7 minutes to play and shooting 22% from behind the line, we weren't going to go off and throw in 15 unanswered threes. I know this is petty, but, he could have shown a little more respect, if not for us, for FOH who is a Nova grad and Hall of Famer.


Thanks for a great year Coach O, team and especially this group of seniors. It was a blast.
NewXbo

I didn't like our draw from day one.  Villanova knows us too well, (our coach, our schemes, our players), and knew how to prepare their game plan. I would have rather played a team who had to ask: what league do they play in?, where is Easton?, is their coaches name Carney?, etc.

But it is what it is and you have to give credit to Villanova, they were well prepared and sent a message to the rest of the bracket. Good luck to them for the rest of the tournament.

I thought the officiating was OK.  You have to realize that the referees we get for PL games are not the same guys you are going to see in the tournament. These guys work the big conferences and allow a lot more contact because those leagues have more physical and more athletic players.

Nice to see the president there as well as the 4 cheerleaders and limited band members. Disappointed that more of them didn't show, they are part of a "team" also. The Leopard seemed to be afraid to go on the court. Nice turnout of students and fans.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NC State - LSU game being decided by a non-call on a goal interference by NC. Replay showed the ball was clearly in the cylinder when touched by NC. Refs ran off the court without going to a replay. I've seen them add a few seconds to the clock a few minutes into a game but they couldn't go to replay on a game winning play? Cowards.
The Maroon

A couple good one-liners I got around the same theme:

"You guys take  your maroon and white colors seriously don't you?

"Is Lafayette some sort of Eastern campus for BYU?"
carney2

Refrider wrote:
I was disappointed with the final score


Thanks, RR, this phrase started me to thinking.  Better a blowout than another of those GD "moral victories" that produce no real positive result and we just mumble about for years.  Before the game a classmate said that the worst outcome would be to be in it at the end and then lose.  Amen.  From here we just move on.
bethlehempard

The Maroon wrote:
A couple good one-liners I got around the same theme:

"You guys take  your maroon and white colors seriously don't you?

"Is Lafayette some sort of Eastern campus for BYU?"


Deadspin was on that too in a light way.
See "Mayo Boys" and they don't mean they're Irish.

http://deadspin.com/if-you-like-w...ple-root-for-lafayette-1692377482
ed65

[quote="Franks Tanks:47216"]
ed65 wrote:
Upon reflection after a night of beer consumption at the Joshua Tree in Manhattan where there were 60-70 LC fans in attendance, the Leopards got absolutely smoked by the Villanova scholars (well, they did not look like scholars to me - several looked like they were at least 30 years old).  

Jay Wright had an excellent game plan by shutting down the LC point guard and continuing their excellent shooting.  Also, Seth had a terrible game and simply does not play like 6'8.  We really miss having a tough big guy to help Trist with the rebounding.  Speaking of Dan, he played a great game and was even up off the bench cheering on the subs at the end of the game.  He has improved tremendously in his LC career.  I thought Boykins made some nifty moves to the basket but could not finish.

While Villanova shot really well (their shooting percentage must have been very high). They played some really good defense as well.

I've always thought Villanova would be a great fit for the PL BUT the league would most likely have to reduce the AI because clearly 'Nova has some place to hide those basketball players.  Could any of the starters be accepted at LC, LU, Colgate, Bucknell or HC?  Or the service academies for that matter?  Maybe Bison 137 can provide some insight on the academic credentials of the Noval starters.[/quote]

First none of their starters would want to go to any of those schools.

Hilliard, from Bethlehem Liberty High School, was recruited by Fran until it was clear he would be a major conference recruit.  Could he get in?  Not sure, but Fran seemed to think so. Nova, and some other schools in the Big East, do a better job than most on the academic side.


With apologies to anyone who felt I was being elitist with the above comments, I simply wonder about the academic side of the 'Nova team - what are their majors, etc.  Their Media Guide is 212 pages long but never mentions the academics of the team.  What is Nova's graduation rate?  I read somewhere that Joey had to postpone a med school interview due to the tournament game being played on Thurs.  That says a lot about him being a true student athlete.  

The question is: are the nova players really students or as in the case of many major college basketball programs, are they basketball players masquerading as students?  It is a simple question really.  

It would be edifying to hear from Bison about this.
bison137

NewXbo wrote:


I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NC State - LSU game being decided by a non-call on a goal interference by NC. Replay showed the ball was clearly in the cylinder when touched by NC. Refs ran off the court without going to a replay. I've seen them add a few seconds to the clock a few minutes into a game but they couldn't go to replay on a game winning play? Cowards.



No, not cowards.   The rules specifically state when they can use replay - and this is definitely not a call that was reviewable.   Had they done so and reversed the call, two things would have happened:  (a)  NC State would have been awarded a win on appeal;  and (b) all three refs would have been banned from working future NCAA games.   But the rules are so clear about what they can review that they never would have even thought about it.  

More to the point, replays after the game indicated that the NC State player never actually touched the ball, that it bounced on the rim and then in - so a replay wouldn't have changed the call anyway.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nca...-shot-a-close-call-053347360.html
BillS

[quote="ed65:47233"]
Franks Tanks wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Upon reflection after a night of beer consumption at the Joshua Tree in Manhattan where there were 60-70 LC fans in attendance, the Leopards got absolutely smoked by the Villanova scholars (well, they did not look like scholars to me - several looked like they were at least 30 years old).  

Jay Wright had an excellent game plan by shutting down the LC point guard and continuing their excellent shooting.  Also, Seth had a terrible game and simply does not play like 6'8.  We really miss having a tough big guy to help Trist with the rebounding.  Speaking of Dan, he played a great game and was even up off the bench cheering on the subs at the end of the game.  He has improved tremendously in his LC career.  I thought Boykins made some nifty moves to the basket but could not finish.

While Villanova shot really well (their shooting percentage must have been very high). They played some really good defense as well.

I've always thought Villanova would be a great fit for the PL BUT the league would most likely have to reduce the AI because clearly 'Nova has some place to hide those basketball players.  Could any of the starters be accepted at LC, LU, Colgate, Bucknell or HC?  Or the service academies for that matter?  Maybe Bison 137 can provide some insight on the academic credentials of the Noval starters.[/quote]

First none of their starters would want to go to any of those schools.

Hilliard, from Bethlehem Liberty High School, was recruited by Fran until it was clear he would be a major conference recruit.  Could he get in?  Not sure, but Fran seemed to think so. Nova, and some other schools in the Big East, do a better job than most on the academic side.


With apologies to anyone who felt I was being elitist with the above comments, I simply wonder about the academic side of the 'Nova team - what are their majors, etc.  Their Media Guide is 212 pages long but never mentions the academics of the team.  What is Nova's graduation rate?  I read somewhere that Joey had to postpone a med school interview due to the tournament game being played on Thurs.  That says a lot about him being a true student athlete.  

The question is: are the nova players really students or as in the case of many major college basketball programs, are they basketball players masquerading as students?  It is a simple question really.  

It would be edifying to hear from Bison about this.
We ain't come to play school  Laughing
bison137

ed65 wrote:

I've always thought Villanova would be a great fit for the PL BUT the league would most likely have to reduce the AI because clearly 'Nova has some place to hide those basketball players.  Could any of the starters be accepted at LC, LU, Colgate, Bucknell or HC?  Or the service academies for that matter?  Maybe Bison 137 can provide some insight on the academic credentials of the Noval starters.[/quote]


With apologies to anyone who felt I was being elitist with the above comments, I simply wonder about the academic side of the 'Nova team - what are their majors, etc.  Their Media Guide is 212 pages long but never mentions the academics of the team.  What is Nova's graduation rate?  

It would be edifying to hear from Bison about this.



I'm sure the average Villanova player doesn't have the same high school GPA's/SAT's as the average PL player - but Villanova definitely is not like many of the basketball factories.   They do have some academic standards and the players do go to class.  And they have a good rate of passing their courses and graduating.   Also there are a number of players who Jay Wright cannot recruit due to academics.

As to your specific question about graduation rates for basketball players, here are the three available metrics:

- Academic Progress Report (measures what pct of the players remain eligible and return to school):   Over the last decade, Villanova's rolling average for the APR has ranged from 97.4% to 100%.    LC's has ranged from 96.6% to 99.4%.   Villanova's ten year average is higher than LC's.

- NCAA Graduation Rate ( transfers are not counted against you IF they transfer out in good academic standing):  Over the past decade, the Villanova four-year rolling average has ranged from 89% to 100%, with the five most recent averages being 100%.   Over the past decade, the LC average has ranged from 80% to 100%, with the most recent being 90%.  Villanova's average over the decade is higher.

- Federal Graduation Rate (tracks what pct of an incoming class graduate from their original school; gives no allowance for transfers, even if they transfer to Yale with a 4.0 GPA):   Villanova's rolling average has ranged from 67% to 90% over the past decade.   LC's has ranged from 57% to 79%.   Villanova's overall average is significantly higher.


Note that there is always a lag on the graduation rate stats since both the federal govt and the NCAA give students six years to graduate, and don't compile the stats until after that deadline has passed.   The NCAA's APR is much more timely.
bethlehempard

I don't know Hilliard but people who do say he's a fine young man. He was recruited by Drexel and BC, which are solid schools. Even a lot of locals are surprised by his stellar career in college. We knew he was good but he's really come far.
While I understand the concern about standards of other schools, this is what we've chosen. There is no other way for Lafayette.
NewXbo

bison137 wrote:
NewXbo wrote:


I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NC State - LSU game being decided by a non-call on a goal interference by NC. Replay showed the ball was clearly in the cylinder when touched by NC. Refs ran off the court without going to a replay. I've seen them add a few seconds to the clock a few minutes into a game but they couldn't go to replay on a game winning play? Cowards.



No, not cowards.   The rules specifically state when they can use replay - and this is definitely not a call that was reviewable.   Had they done so and reversed the call, two things would have happened:  (a)  NC State would have been awarded a win on appeal;  and (b) all three refs would have been banned from working future NCAA games.   But the rules are so clear about what they can review that they never would have even thought about it.  

More to the point, replays after the game indicated that the NC State player never actually touched the ball, that it bounced on the rim and then in - so a replay wouldn't have changed the call anyway.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nca...-shot-a-close-call-053347360.html



Thanx for your response and accompanying video. I'm still not convinced that it was not goal tending. My view was from the second video in the link you provided and that video looks like he had a hand on it. There was also a camera on the top of both backboards. Are you saying they can never review a tip in?
ed65

bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:

I've always thought Villanova would be a great fit for the PL BUT the league would most likely have to reduce the AI because clearly 'Nova has some place to hide those basketball players.  Could any of the starters be accepted at LC, LU, Colgate, Bucknell or HC?  Or the service academies for that matter?  Maybe Bison 137 can provide some insight on the academic credentials of the Noval starters.[/quote]


With apologies to anyone who felt I was being elitist with the above comments, I simply wonder about the academic side of the 'Nova team - what are their majors, etc.  Their Media Guide is 212 pages long but never mentions the academics of the team.  What is Nova's graduation rate?  

It would be edifying to hear from Bison about this.



I'm sure the average Villanova player doesn't have the same high school GPA's/SAT's as the average PL player - but Villanova definitely is not like many of the basketball factories.   They do have some academic standards and the players do go to class.  And they have a good rate of passing their courses and graduating.   Also there are a number of players who Jay Wright cannot recruit due to academics.

As to your specific question about graduation rates for basketball players, here are the three available metrics:

- Academic Progress Report (measures what pct of the players remain eligible and return to school):   Over the last decade, Villanova's rolling average for the APR has ranged from 97.4% to 100%.    LC's has ranged from 96.6% to 99.4%.   Villanova's ten year average is higher than LC's.

- NCAA Graduation Rate ( transfers are not counted against you IF they transfer out in good academic standing):  Over the past decade, the Villanova four-year rolling average has ranged from 89% to 100%, with the five most recent averages being 100%.   Over the past decade, the LC average has ranged from 80% to 100%, with the most recent being 90%.  Villanova's average over the decade is higher.

- Federal Graduation Rate (tracks what pct of an incoming class graduate from their original school; gives no allowance for transfers, even if they transfer to Yale with a 4.0 GPA):   Villanova's rolling average has ranged from 67% to 90% over the past decade.   LC's has ranged from 57% to 79%.   Villanova's overall average is significantly higher.


Note that there is always a lag on the graduation rate stats since both the federal govt and the NCAA give students six years to graduate, and don't compile the stats until after that deadline has passed.   The NCAA's APR is much more timely.


Thanks Bison.  That settles it.  Clearly nova recruits smarter kids than LC.  How stupid of me to think it might be different.  What I would say to Bison is the numbers might be different if you would consider starters and kids who play a lot.  Often the smarter kids are on the bench!  Then there is the issue of what do the starters major in?  Tough to get that information.

As to Bison's comments that Villanova "is not like some of the basketball factories....." that is not saying much IMHO.  If a college is going to get a number one seed, there is very little question in my mind that the starters are not students or at least not very serious students.  

Also clearly, I am a racist (according to a Met College writer) and an elitist.  What can I say?

But as always, we can thank Bison for this information.  He has statistical information that is not available to the rest of us.  And, interestingly, it always makes LC look bad!
bison137

ed65 wrote:
bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:

I've always thought Villanova would be a great fit for the PL BUT the league would most likely have to reduce the AI because clearly 'Nova has some place to hide those basketball players.  Could any of the starters be accepted at LC, LU, Colgate, Bucknell or HC?  Or the service academies for that matter?  Maybe Bison 137 can provide some insight on the academic credentials of the Noval starters.[/quote]


With apologies to anyone who felt I was being elitist with the above comments, I simply wonder about the academic side of the 'Nova team - what are their majors, etc.  Their Media Guide is 212 pages long but never mentions the academics of the team.  What is Nova's graduation rate?  

It would be edifying to hear from Bison about this.



I'm sure the average Villanova player doesn't have the same high school GPA's/SAT's as the average PL player - but Villanova definitely is not like many of the basketball factories.   They do have some academic standards and the players do go to class.  And they have a good rate of passing their courses and graduating.   Also there are a number of players who Jay Wright cannot recruit due to academics.

As to your specific question about graduation rates for basketball players, here are the three available metrics:

- Academic Progress Report (measures what pct of the players remain eligible and return to school):   Over the last decade, Villanova's rolling average for the APR has ranged from 97.4% to 100%.    LC's has ranged from 96.6% to 99.4%.   Villanova's ten year average is higher than LC's.

- NCAA Graduation Rate ( transfers are not counted against you IF they transfer out in good academic standing):  Over the past decade, the Villanova four-year rolling average has ranged from 89% to 100%, with the five most recent averages being 100%.   Over the past decade, the LC average has ranged from 80% to 100%, with the most recent being 90%.  Villanova's average over the decade is higher.

- Federal Graduation Rate (tracks what pct of an incoming class graduate from their original school; gives no allowance for transfers, even if they transfer to Yale with a 4.0 GPA):   Villanova's rolling average has ranged from 67% to 90% over the past decade.   LC's has ranged from 57% to 79%.   Villanova's overall average is significantly higher.


Note that there is always a lag on the graduation rate stats since both the federal govt and the NCAA give students six years to graduate, and don't compile the stats until after that deadline has passed.   The NCAA's APR is much more timely.


Thanks Bison.  That settles it.  Clearly nova recruits smarter kids than LC.  How stupid of me to think it might be different.  What I would say to Bison is the numbers might be different if you would consider starters and kids who play a lot.  Often the smarter kids are on the bench!  Then there is the issue of what do the starters major in?  Tough to get that information.

As to Bison's comments that Villanova "is not like some of the basketball factories....." that is not saying much IMHO.  If a college is going to get a number one seed, there is very little question in my mind that the starters are not students or at least not very serious students.  

Also clearly, I am a racist (according to a Met College writer) and an elitist.  What can I say?

But as always, we can thank Bison for this information.  He has statistical information that is not available to the rest of us.  And, interestingly, it always makes LC look bad!



Ed, I'm not sure why you always find the need to be insulting and/or to misstate things that I have said.   You asked a specific question and I answered it.   It's information you could look up if you wanted to.   And nowhere did I say or imply that "Nova recruits smarter kids than LC".  In fact I clearly said the opposite.  Why the need to respond in this way?

BTW, do you have some evidence that Villanova's starters are "the starters are not students or at least not very serious students."?   I would love to see it.
ed65

bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:

I've always thought Villanova would be a great fit for the PL BUT the league would most likely have to reduce the AI because clearly 'Nova has some place to hide those basketball players.  Could any of the starters be accepted at LC, LU, Colgate, Bucknell or HC?  Or the service academies for that matter?  Maybe Bison 137 can provide some insight on the academic credentials of the Noval starters.[/quote]


With apologies to anyone who felt I was being elitist with the above comments, I simply wonder about the academic side of the 'Nova team - what are their majors, etc.  Their Media Guide is 212 pages long but never mentions the academics of the team.  What is Nova's graduation rate?  

It would be edifying to hear from Bison about this.



I'm sure the average Villanova player doesn't have the same high school GPA's/SAT's as the average PL player - but Villanova definitely is not like many of the basketball factories.   They do have some academic standards and the players do go to class.  And they have a good rate of passing their courses and graduating.   Also there are a number of players who Jay Wright cannot recruit due to academics.

As to your specific question about graduation rates for basketball players, here are the three available metrics:

- Academic Progress Report (measures what pct of the players remain eligible and return to school):   Over the last decade, Villanova's rolling average for the APR has ranged from 97.4% to 100%.    LC's has ranged from 96.6% to 99.4%.   Villanova's ten year average is higher than LC's.

- NCAA Graduation Rate ( transfers are not counted against you IF they transfer out in good academic standing):  Over the past decade, the Villanova four-year rolling average has ranged from 89% to 100%, with the five most recent averages being 100%.   Over the past decade, the LC average has ranged from 80% to 100%, with the most recent being 90%.  Villanova's average over the decade is higher.

- Federal Graduation Rate (tracks what pct of an incoming class graduate from their original school; gives no allowance for transfers, even if they transfer to Yale with a 4.0 GPA):   Villanova's rolling average has ranged from 67% to 90% over the past decade.   LC's has ranged from 57% to 79%.   Villanova's overall average is significantly higher.


Note that there is always a lag on the graduation rate stats since both the federal govt and the NCAA give students six years to graduate, and don't compile the stats until after that deadline has passed.   The NCAA's APR is much more timely.


Thanks Bison.  That settles it.  Clearly nova recruits smarter kids than LC.  How stupid of me to think it might be different.  What I would say to Bison is the numbers might be different if you would consider starters and kids who play a lot.  Often the smarter kids are on the bench!  Then there is the issue of what do the starters major in?  Tough to get that information.

As to Bison's comments that Villanova "is not like some of the basketball factories....." that is not saying much IMHO.  If a college is going to get a number one seed, there is very little question in my mind that the starters are not students or at least not very serious students.  

Also clearly, I am a racist (according to a Met College writer) and an elitist.  What can I say?

But as always, we can thank Bison for this information.  He has statistical information that is not available to the rest of us.  And, interestingly, it always makes LC look bad!



Ed, I'm not sure why you always find the need to be insulting and/or to misstate things that I have said.   You asked a specific question and I answered it.   It's information you could look up if you wanted to.   And nowhere did I say or imply that "Nova recruits smarter kids than LC".  In fact I clearly said the opposite.  Why the need to respond in this way?

BTW, do you have some evidence that Villanova's starters are "the starters are not students or at least not very serious students."?   I would love to see it.


Ah Bison, my estimable friend, now we are at the crux of the matter.  Perhaps you might quote your sources so we might "look up" the data.  As for me, I have no idea where to get the data so I'm at a disadvantage when having a discussion with a fact minded person like you.  Clearly you have access to a lot of information about all things related to athletics and I applaud you for it.  So how about sharing your sources in the future.  

I know what my eyes see (at least from the TV) and I did not see a lot of scholars in white uniforms on Thursday Night.  I do admire Jay Wright bec. he has stayed at nova for awhile and seems more intelligent than a lot of college coaches when he is interviewed.  I don't have much respect for Villanova as an institution based on the likelihood that their bball players are players first and students second.  That is not why people should go to college.
LC Fan

To Bison I say: your postings add great insight on virtually all the issues discussed here and they're appreciated unlike Ed who has no facts, broad prejudices, and few manners. My advice to you is to pay no attention to Ed, like the rest of us.

As to the Nova student athletes, I for one would enjoy seeing someone as athletic once, just once, in maroon and white.
adcs2

Before we get carried away putting ourselves on a pedestal with the "our kids our better students than yours" rhetoric. Consider this ...

"When Leopards coach Fran O'Hanlon - a Villanova alumnus and an old point guard himself - learned that Lindner had skipped a couple of classes so he could get in extra workouts at Kirby, O'Hanlon called him in for a one-on-one meeting. Lindner sat down and pleaded his case, arguing that he had come to college to do more than just bury his head in books.

What, you think I was a [expletive] Rhodes Scholar or something?" O'Hanlon recalled telling him. "Nick, you've got to go to class."


http://www.philly.com/philly/spor..._Lindner_is_fiercely_focused.html
ed65

LC Fan wrote:
To Bison I say: your postings add great insight on virtually all the issues discussed here and they're appreciated unlike Ed who has no facts, broad prejudices, and few manners. My advice to you is to pay no attention to Ed, like the rest of us.

As to the Nova student athletes, I for one would enjoy seeing someone as athletic once, just once, in maroon and white.


Can't argue with your last point LC Fan:  We certainly saw one in Ross, and several of the posters are keeping us informed about his progress in the pro football draft preparation.

My only point about Bision is that I wish he would cite his sources so the rest of us can have access to them as well.  Believe me, I would much prefer to have facts.  I totally agree with you that Bison adds a lot to the board.

As to my having broad prejudices, please cite some examples.  Do I think  LC athletes are students first and athletes second?  Maybe that is a prejudice but having talked to lots of student athletes, they certainly confirm that they are at LC for the education first.  By the way, I have hired more LC interns than any alum in the school's history.  We are currently interviewing LC students for one of our intern positions this summer.  Those are facts.

My lack of manners, according to you, may be some occasionally misplaced attempts at humor (sometimes at Bison's expense) so I 'll try to be more aware of manners in the future.

One more point, LC Fan, I have been rooting for Lafayette teams for more than a few years now, and I am sick of the losing.  So sometimes I react to the moment.  There are many ways in which LC could run a winning D-1 athletic program.  I am impressed at how our new President has supported athletics by her presence at the games.  Maybe we should require the Trustees to do the same.  I'would  make a side bet with you that very few of them know that Mens bball was the first winning team in a while.
bethlehempard

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resourc...i-graduation-success-rates-search

Here's a start. Personally I prefer 137 handle it, he is quite proficient.
Franks Tanks

Nova down by 8 with 3 minutes to go. We must've worn them out on Thursday.
NewXbo

Maybe if Wright hadn't run up the score on Thursday his team wouldn't have been so over confident tonight. Its obvious they were seeded too high again.
Lafalum

NewXbo wrote:
Maybe if Wright hadn't run up the score on Thursday his team wouldn't have been so over confident tonight. Its obvious they were seeded too high again.



They must have used up their quota of three's with us. They were getting open shots but couldn't buy a basket.
flyfisher

bison137 wrote:
NewXbo wrote:


I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NC State - LSU game being decided by a non-call on a goal interference by NC. Replay showed the ball was clearly in the cylinder when touched by NC. Refs ran off the court without going to a replay. I've seen them add a few seconds to the clock a few minutes into a game but they couldn't go to replay on a game winning play? Cowards.



No, not cowards.   The rules specifically state when they can use replay - and this is definitely not a call that was reviewable.   Had they done so and reversed the call, two things would have happened:  (a)  NC State would have been awarded a win on appeal;  and (b) all three refs would have been banned from working future NCAA games.   But the rules are so clear about what they can review that they never would have even thought about it.  

More to the point, replays after the game indicated that the NC State player never actually touched the ball, that it bounced on the rim and then in - so a replay wouldn't have changed the call anyway.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nca...-shot-a-close-call-053347360.html


You are correct 137. You have to actually touch the ball on that play for there to be goal tending. Abu never touched the rim, the nets, the backboard or the ball.

Moving forward, how about Nova now?
ed65

Kudos to Bethlehem Pard for providing the link to the graduation rate stats.
NewXbo

flyfisher wrote:
bison137 wrote:
NewXbo wrote:


I'm surprised nobody mentioned the NC State - LSU game being decided by a non-call on a goal interference by NC. Replay showed the ball was clearly in the cylinder when touched by NC. Refs ran off the court without going to a replay. I've seen them add a few seconds to the clock a few minutes into a game but they couldn't go to replay on a game winning play? Cowards.



No, not cowards.   The rules specifically state when they can use replay - and this is definitely not a call that was reviewable.   Had they done so and reversed the call, two things would have happened:  (a)  NC State would have been awarded a win on appeal;  and (b) all three refs would have been banned from working future NCAA games.   But the rules are so clear about what they can review that they never would have even thought about it.  

More to the point, replays after the game indicated that the NC State player never actually touched the ball, that it bounced on the rim and then in - so a replay wouldn't have changed the call anyway.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nca...-shot-a-close-call-053347360.html


You are correct 137. You have to actually touch the ball on that play for there to be goal tending. Abu never touched the rim, the nets, the backboard or the ball.

Moving forward, how about Nova now?



If you touch the rim while the ball is touching the rim is that gal tending?
seenalot

yes
Lafalum

I don't know if anyone noticed on go leopards, there are pictures of Allyson addressing the team in the locker room after the game. Impressive, she has  leadership instincts!
flyfisher

Lafalum wrote:
I don't know if anyone noticed on go leopards, there are pictures of Allyson addressing the team in the locker room after the game. Impressive, she has  leadership instincts!


She says all the right things and plays the game but as Jerry MyGuire said, "Show me the money!"

Proof will be in the pudding.
bethlehempard

How much money? The college is spending quite a bit.
Also what's unusual or bad about fans and alumni giving to programs?
Nothing.
The college has made huge steps in supporting some sports in the past decade. Steps that would have been unimaginable in my day or even 20 years ago.
The sky is not falling.
Lafalum

I agree there have good steps but we are frustrated with the lack of results in winning teams. Men's basketball is the first winning team in two years. Eventually if the giving doesn't result in wins the money will dry up.
Grandpa Tom

Very Happy Have had a little time think about the season.  Congrats to all the boys and the coaching staff.   20 wins, tournament championship, and a trip to the NCAA tournament.  This is something that everyone who was involved will be teling their grandkids some day.  Yes, I wish we would have played better and Nova play worse ,but that aside what a thrill.  Only one negative to throw out.  In a 40pt blow out I thought Fran could have done a better job of getting the bench players more time.  I think he missed an opportunity for some really good will.  Flannigan, the other , just got 2min. and the rest only about 46sec.  I thought this was in poor taste.  It wasn't like we were coming back, why not let these other kids get 5min. or so.  GO PARDS!!!

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