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To my surprise and disappointment, I thought Andrew Brown should have been a first team Patriot League first team selection. Each of the individuals that made the first team did have a good year. Yet, when you match Andrew's stats with that of Griffin's from Bucknell, Andrew exceeded John in just about all categories (except FT & steals).
Andrew played in 28 games. His stats: FG:143, 3FG:96, FT: 67, PTS: 449, Assists:83, FT%:.837, AVG: 16.0.
Griffith's stats in 29 games: FG:109, 3FG:74, FT: 90, PTS:382, Assists::81, FT%:.789,AVG:13.7.
Looking at these stats, Andrew had more of an impact this season.
John is an excellent player. When I think of Bucknell, I think of stopping John first. Yet, I view Andrew as being more of a threat to an opposing team due to his production than John, thus that is why I feel Andrew should have been given the first team nod.
Go Pards! Best of luck in the tourney.
Long Time Fan
Any team that folds up the way we have is fortunate to have two second team selections. Andrew has had a very good year, but all through February he couldn't make the plays needed at the end of the game--nor could anyone else. Let's just be glad that we had some guys recognized.
Lafalum
You have to consider league games and although I haven't bothered to do the math I would bet Andrew's league stats are not that much better than Griffins if at all. Maybe not having a first team selection will motivate these guys in the tournament. A ticket to the dance to me would be worth far more than an all league nod.
bison137
Re: Patriot League First team selection?
Refrider wrote:
To my surprise and disappointment, I thought Andrew Brown should have been a first team Patriot League first team selection. Each of the individuals that made the first team did have a good year. Yet, when you match Andrew's stats with that of Griffin's from Bucknell, Andrew exceeded John in just about all categories (except FT & steals).
Andrew played in 28 games. His stats: FG:143, 3FG:96, FT: 67, PTS: 449, Assists:83, FT%:.837, AVG: 16.0.
Griffith's stats in 29 games: FG:109, 3FG:74, FT: 90, PTS:382, Assists::81, FT%:.789,AVG:13.7.
Looking at these stats, Andrew had more of an impact this season.
John is an excellent player. When I think of Bucknell, I think of stopping John first. Yet, I view Andrew as being more of a threat to an opposing team due to his production than John, thus that is why I feel Andrew should have been given the first team nod.
Go Pards! Best of luck in the tourney.
I think Brown had a real good season and you can certainly make a case for him (and also for Hall). However there's a pretty good case for Griffin as well. A few general comments about comparing the two:
1. The coaches seem to focus a lot more on Patriot League games than ooc games, so the PL stats are probably more meaningful than the overall stats.
2. Brown's stats are inflated relative to Griffin because Lafayette plays at a fast pace relative to Bucknell, and thus has a lot more points/rebounds/assists per game. The all-game mulitplier to bring Griffin's stats up to the same pace as Brown's is about 1.089.
3. I think one reason Griffin received votes is that he was THE player who other teams game-planned to stop defensively when they played Bucknell. He was constantly switched onto, face guarded, etc. When teams played Lafayette, at least in the games I saw, I think an equal amount of their game plan was to stop Abdullah. With a more balanced offense, I think Brown had less defensive pressure on him.
4. When looking at guards, I don't think FG pct is meaningful. Effective FG pct, which calculates points per shot, imo is a much better measure. Otherwise a player shooting 40% on 2-pointers would have the same pct as a player shoooting 40% on 3-pointers - even though the latter produces 50% more points. That's the stat I've listed below.
5. John Griffin vs Andrew Brown in PL stats:
PPG: JG 13.4, AB 15.9
Eff. FG Pct: JG .549, AB .537
FT Pct: JG .782, AB .810
RPG: JG 2.6, AB 2.1
APG: JG 2.7, AB 2.8
SPG: JG 2.0, AB 1.1
BPG: JG 0.2, AB 0.0
Asst/TO: JG 1.1, AB 1.1
Looks pretty close overall, although you have to remember Griffin's numbers would go up if the stats were adjusted to points per possession. Griffin did lead the league in steals though and arguably played better defense. And, as mentioned before, I think he had more defensive pressure applied to him than did Brown.
JMO.
Refrider
Bison137
I believe we both have strong cases. I always look forward to your post. Yet, I personally do not put much value into projection of stats. I tend to look at the whole season, but in this case since voting is probably limited to the Patriot League season, so be it. If we start including projections, then we must include: the starter that gets hurt and sits out for a half of season, or the sixth man who comes off the bench to give you those valuable 10 minutes per game. The game is 40 minutes and the season is 28+ games. Who is producing the entire league season is the bottom line.
John had a very good season. Andrew had a very good season. I'm not going to downgrade Andrew's season because Lafayette plays an up-tempo game and because Abdullah had a good year.
I do wonder since John is a senior and Andrew is a junior, if this had any points in decisions?
Either way, goold luck in your tourney opener.
Go Pards!
TheTruth
Considering the stats are so close, Griffin being a senior was probably the deicidng factor.
Pard Promise
Let me put it this way. Many folks around the Patriot League were surprised at Griffin's selection to the first team. The guys who cover Lafayette and Lehigh here in the valley were very surprised when I asked them about it Tuesday. As were several members of the team who were not considered for league honors.
I think any time you only have seven people voting on something (you can't vote for your own players) you are going to have this. They should involve the media or maybe the assistant coaches or even players to get a better sample.
As for Griffin having more defensive pressure applied to him, I don't think that's the case. Teams know that they have to contain Brown and that he is the big gun for the Leopards. the same goes for Griffin. I do agree that Griffin is a better defensive player.
Lafalum
Hey guys you haven't caught on how these selections are made at high school and college. ITS A NEGOTIATION and league records are paramount. In order to have a lot first team selections...win games come in first and be a senior. That's what'll get you names. I suspect there may have been a tradeoff for the nbr six team. You want two players accept second team status!!
Pard Promise
How it works is that players are nominated by coaches. The coaches vote and the people with the most votes get first team and those with fewer votes get second team. They vote by email and fax. There's no negotiation. Maybe I am misunderstanding your intent. Griffin's was a career achievement award for first team. I don't have a problem with him on the second team...unless he took Bryan White's.
Lafalum
I think your being a little naive if you don't think some horse trading doesn't go on before the vote
Pard Promise
Why don't you ask one of the men's basketball coaches and see if they seek input or make deals with other coaches. Fran would be up front with you. Then he would tell you that he doesn't talk to Ralph Willard or Pat Flannery or anyone else for that matter about the voting. He consults his assistants.
bison137
Pard Promise wrote:
Why don't you ask one of the men's basketball coaches and see if they seek input or make deals with other coaches. Fran would be up front with you. Then he would tell you that he doesn't talk to Ralph Willard or Pat Flannery or anyone else for that matter about the voting. He consults his assistants.
