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Lafalum

Phi Gam gone??

I have heard that Weis turned down the appeal by Phi Gam. Their last appeal will be the BOT. I never seen the BOT reverse a sitting president publically.
This does not look good!! Any insights from anyone???
Franks Tanks

Re: Phi Gam gone??

Lafalum wrote:
I have heard that Weis turned down the appeal by Phi Gam. Their last appeal will be the BOT. I never seen the BOT reverse a sitting president publically.
This does not look good!! Any insights from anyone???


Last official word was that the house association was appealing the decision.  It appears the President has turned down the appeal, which was the most likely occurence the entire time.  Just as I predicted it appers they did the dirty deed over summer when kids are out.  It probably true and Fiji is most likely done at LC.
Pard94

Wow. While I am not at all surprised, as a FIJI myself, I am saddened by it if it is true. This is just another futile attempt to keep college kids from acting like college kids. All they will succeed in doing is driving kids off campus and down into Easton to find nightly entertainment. I wonder how they will feel when more and more students have run ins with the Easton police. Worse yet...how is the administration going to feel if god forbid students are victims of violent crime. I think they may just long for the good old days when students would lock themselves into on-campus fraternity houses and drink (shock, horror, what is this world coming to?). "Egg-headism" at it's worst if you ask me.
TheTruth

That is a huge loss to an already depleted Greek system.

has anyone heard anything about the results of the study on fraternites and sororities from this past spring?  I read about it in The Lafayette but didn't hear if the results were known.
Lafalum

If you want insight on how the administration feels about the greek system you need go no farther than the recent issue of the Alumni News in the article on diversity. After explaining that this years incoming class has 24 African Americans (how many are football players?) and 31 Asian Americans, " some observers consider that surprising , given the college's
traditional strength in engineering and sciences (is that not a racist statement?), disciplines that are often especially inducing  to to Asian students. OTHER OBSERVERS, THOUGH, SPECULATE THAT MANY OF THOSE STUDENTS FIND THE PRESENCE OF OF A FRATERNITY-SORORITY SYSTEM OFF-PUTTING."
Another quote from a student " Too few students of diverse backrounds are attracted to Lafayette, in part because of LONSTANDING SOCIAL DYNAMICS THAT PROMOTE SUB-COMMUNITIES RATHER THAN A BROADER SENSE OF CAMPUS COMMUNITY."
So the greeks are responsible for racisim, underage drinking, maybe global warming, obesity,the health care system,pollution and when they go away.... and when everyone is walking around campus in Maroon Mao suits.... all will be right with the world.
Pard94

Lafalum wrote:
If you want insight on how the administration feels about the greek system you need go no farther than the recent issue of the Alumni News in the article on diversity. After explaining that this years incoming class has 24 African Americans (how many are football players?) and 31 Asian Americans, " some observers consider that surprising , given the college's
traditional strength in engineering and sciences (is that not a racist statement?), disciplines that are often especially inducing  to to Asian students. OTHER OBSERVERS, THOUGH, SPECULATE THAT MANY OF THOSE STUDENTS FIND THE PRESENCE OF OF A FRATERNITY-SORORITY SYSTEM OFF-PUTTING."
Another quote from a student " Too few students of diverse backrounds are attracted to Lafayette, in part because of LONSTANDING SOCIAL DYNAMICS THAT PROMOTE SUB-COMMUNITIES RATHER THAN A BROADER SENSE OF CAMPUS COMMUNITY."
So the greeks are responsible for racisim, underage drinking, maybe global warming, obesity,the health care system,pollution and when they go away.... and when everyone is walking around campus in Maroon Mao suits.... all will be right with the world.


Well...if that's the case I certainly hope we take a long hard look at such institutions as McKelvy House and Kirby Hall. These would certainly qualify as dreaded "sub-communities".
Lafalum

Come to think of it...what is the one catagory of activitiy that is campus uniting, could involve the whole college community, and promotes pride in the institution, in the college and the outside world. Maybe its the chess club, maybe the gay pride club, the frisbee club........what might that be.....hint: it is one activity that has had the smallest increase in operating budget in the last ten years, its the activity that has been asked to cut their budgets by 3 % in each of the next three years, its the one that get the most outside press, its the one that 25% of the student body participates in, its the one that has the greatest number of african american students working with students of all backrounds for the same purpose....if you guessed the student theatre your wrong!!
Pard94

Lafalum wrote:
Come to think of it...what is the one catagory of activitiy that is campus uniting, could involve the whole college community, and promotes pride in the institution, in the college and the outside world. Maybe its the chess club, maybe the gay pride club, the frisbee club........what might that be.....hint: it is one activity that has had the smallest increase in operating budget in the last ten years, its the activity that has been asked to cut their budgets by 3 % in each of the next three years, its the one that get the most outside press, its the one that 25% of the student body participates in, its the one that has the greatest number of african american students working with students of all backrounds for the same purpose....if you guessed the student theatre your wrong!!


Is it the QeEST Group (Questioning Established Sexual Taboos)?
TheTruth

I have to stop asking question I already know the answer to.  I like seeing Lafalum go on one of his rants.

I've known the administration's stance for quite a while.  I was surprised that they needed a "study" to figure it out.  I jsut wish they had the guts to get rid of fraternities and sororities instead of letting them die a slow death.  Everyone knows they want them gone, just do it!  And deal with the consequences which is even lower alumni donations and more alumni who don't come back to Reunion.  That will get that endowment back up.
carney2

Here is one alum who supports the athletic programs* and could not care less about much of the rest of it.  Have any studies been done about how the turn of the century (sounds like a long time ago, doesn't it?!) basketball teams used to pack Kirby with students and create a buzz everywhere in the community?  The problem with academic "studies" is that they are usually undertaken with a predetermined result and agenda in mind.

Has anyone noticed that "diversity," like government controlled universal health care, has worked itself up the food chain to where it is an unquestioned top priority?  The ivory tower has been surrendered without a fight - and it's our fault.

Apologies for overstatement and hyberbole here.  Just warming up my curmudgeon for the fall season.

*In the interests of full disclosure, I confess to giving full support to football and basketball, while not so much to other athletic activities.
Pard94

carney2 wrote:
Here is one alum who supports the athletic programs* and could not care less about much of the rest of it.  Have any studies been done about how the turn of the century (sounds like a long time ago, doesn't it?!) basketball teams used to pack Kirby with students and create a buzz everywhere in the community?  The problem with academic "studies" is that they are usually undertaken with a predetermined result and agenda in mind.

Has anyone noticed that "diversity," like government controlled universal health care, has worked itself up the food chain to where it is an unquestioned top priority?  The ivory tower has been surrendered without a fight - and it's our fault.

Apologies for overstatement and hyberbole here.  Just warming up my curmudgeon for the fall season.

*In the interests of full disclosure, I confess to giving full support to football and basketball, while not so much to other athletic activities.


I'll go out on a limb here and say, at best, diversity should be a benign byproduct of selecting the absolute best and most qualified students/worker/supreme court justice, etc. If a given selection process produces the most qualified field that just happens to be diverse...great. If, however, diversity is a goal in and of itself I don't see how the pursuit of excellence isn't frustraded.  Just my opinion...which happens to be rooted in indisputable logic. Very Happy
Pard4Life

Pard94 wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Here is one alum who supports the athletic programs* and could not care less about much of the rest of it.  Have any studies been done abo


*In the interests of full disclosure, I confess to giving full support to football and basketball, while not so much to other athletic activities.


I'll go out on a limb here and say, at best, diversity should be a benign byproduct of selecting the absolute best and most qualified students/worker/supreme court justice, etc. If a given selection process produces the most qualified field that just happens to be diverse...great. If, however, diversity is a goal in and of itself I don't see how the pursuit of excellence isn't frustraded.  Just my opinion...which happens to be rooted in indisputable logic. Very Happy


That is a good principle to adhere to, but what if a slection process constantly yields non diverse bodies where diversity should be present, and the lack thereof is the result of denial of resources and suppression of particular groups? Diversity and affrimative action and the like is a subsidy in a sense.

By the way I skipped the diversity article. So sick of hearing it. Most of my generation is beyond this. It's only an issue in closed and monotonous communities which Lafayette certainly is. ie rich white kids without a clue.

And we are trying to be an Amherst or swathmore. I'm not a fan of the Greek system and what they pruport, but they must be allowed to stay.
Pard94

Pard4Life wrote:
Pard94 wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Here is one alum who supports the athletic programs* and could not care less about much of the rest of it.  Have any studies been done abo


*In the interests of full disclosure, I confess to giving full support to football and basketball, while not so much to other athletic activities.


I'll go out on a limb here and say, at best, diversity should be a benign byproduct of selecting the absolute best and most qualified students/worker/supreme court justice, etc. If a given selection process produces the most qualified field that just happens to be diverse...great. If, however, diversity is a goal in and of itself I don't see how the pursuit of excellence isn't frustraded.  Just my opinion...which happens to be rooted in indisputable logic. Very Happy


That is a good principle to adhere to, but what if a slection process constantly yields non diverse bodies where diversity should be present, and the lack thereof is the result of denial of resources and suppression of particular groups? Diversity and affrimative action and the like is a subsidy in a sense.

By the way I skipped the diversity article. So sick of hearing it. Most of my generation is beyond this. It's only an issue in closed and monotonous communities which Lafayette certainly is. ie rich white kids without a clue.

And we are trying to be an Amherst or swathmore. I'm not a fan of the Greek system and what they pruport, but they must be allowed to stay.


And what if the selection process is fine (or as close to fine as possible)yet the lack of precieved diversity results in the very discrimination said process is trying to avoid (discrimination applies to all races, colors, creeds, etc.). One need not look any farther than the Ricci case in CT for a shining example of this. The test in question was engineered by no less than EEO experts to be devoid of any race based qualifiers no matter how subtle. Look how that worked out.

Worse yet, consider tests designed to avoid descrimination by actually lowering standards. There is a famous case (again fire fighters) where a portion of a qualifying test was for the applicant to carry a 120lbs, dummy through an obstacle course in order to simulate actual rescue conditions. Problem was there were woman who couldn't do it. Logic would dictate those women shouldn't be fire fighters. Political correctness dictated that this portion of the exam be eliminated to accomodate those woman with aspirations of being fire fighters.  I pray those fire fighters never come to rescue me! They wouldn't get me off the couch!

You call diversity and affirmative action a "subsidy". I call them euphamisms for socially accpetable discrimination. Nothing more.
TheTruth

Pard94:  Without getting into a long dissertation about diversity at Lafayette, it's an issue the College has struggled with ever since the late 60's.  When students transfer out of Lafayette the two main reasons sited are the social life revolving too much around drinking and the homogeneous nature of the College.  

I think the College has handled the Greek as well as they have handled diversity:  God awful!  They made the fraternities the scapegoat for the social ills of the College.  They will claim they hired a Greek advisor to "work" with the Greek system.  If you ask all the former employees that held that position, they will tell you how little support they received and they were highly discouraed from making any changes.  Plain and simple, the faculty, as a whole, do not like the fraternity system.  The Administration and Trustees are tired of dealing with them.  So they (President and BOT) need make the decision to get rid of them and suffer the consequences of permanently alienating certain alumni.  This long, drawn out process of letting them die off themselves creates more of a distraction.  It's been going on since the mid-80's.  At first it was disguised as a natural reduction due to co-education.  I don't think they can claim that anymore.

Like Pard4life, I could care less about the fraternities and sororities but they are a very important part of our culture at Lafayette, like our athletic program, like our Engineering program.  At one point, 80% of the males on campus (includes the freshamen) were members of fraternities.  Some alumni have moved past their alliance with their fratenity and are in line with the College (like it should be) but I know my era want nothing to do with the College because their fraternity is no longer on campus.  There are ways to have a thriving Greek system that is in step with the College's mission.  Other colleges like ours are doing it.  Unfortunately, I thnk Lafayette is beyond this point.

Yes there are those who believe we should become more academically rigorous and would love for us to be another Amherst.  Please understand, I love reading that our Forensic Team finished fiifth nationally; the engineering program is one of the leaders in graduating women engineers; the renewed efforts to promote community service. But there is no need to destroy traditions while doing this.  After the drunken 70's and 80's, we needed to move to a more "academic' mission but the pendulum has swung way too far.  We have the benefit of a huge endowment (despite the 30% loss) and alumni with deep pockets who LOVE the College.  We can accomplish many of these and still maintain a competitive Div. I athletic program that excels in the Patriot League and a fraternity system that fits the mission of the College.
Pard94

TheTruth wrote:
Pard94:  Without getting into a long dissertation about diversity at Lafayette, it's an issue the College has struggled with ever since the late 60's.  When students transfer out of Lafayette the two main reasons sited are the social life revolving too much around drinking and the homogeneous nature of the College.  

I think the College has handled the Greek as well as they have handled diversity:  God awful!  They made the fraternities the scapegoat for the social ills of the College.  They will claim they hired a Greek advisor to "work" with the Greek system.  If you ask all the former employees that held that position, they will tell you how little support they received and they were highly discouraed from making any changes.  Plain and simple, the faculty, as a whole, do not like the fraternity system.  The Administration and Trustees are tired of dealing with them.  So they (President and BOT) need make the decision to get rid of them and suffer the consequences of permanently alienating certain alumni.  This long, drawn out process of letting them die off themselves creates more of a distraction.  It's been going on since the mid-80's.  At first it was disguised as a natural reduction due to co-education.  I don't think they can claim that anymore.

Like Pard4life, I could care less about the fraternities and sororities but they are a very important part of our culture at Lafayette, like our athletic program, like our Engineering program.  At one point, 80% of the males on campus (includes the freshamen) were members of fraternities.  Some alumni have moved past their alliance with their fratenity and are in line with the College (like it should be) but I know my era want nothing to do with the College because their fraternity is no longer on campus.  There are ways to have a thriving Greek system that is in step with the College's mission.  Other colleges like ours are doing it.  Unfortunately, I thnk Lafayette is beyond this point.

Yes there are those who believe we should become more academically rigorous and would love for us to be another Amherst.  Please understand, I love reading that our Forensic Team finished fiifth nationally; the engineering program is one of the leaders in graduating women engineers; the renewed efforts to promote community service. But there is no need to destroy traditions while doing this.  After the drunken 70's and 80's, we needed to move to a more "academic' mission but the pendulum has swung way too far.  We have the benefit of a huge endowment (despite the 30% loss) and alumni with deep pockets who LOVE the College.  We can accomplish many of these and still maintain a competitive Div. I athletic program that excels in the Patriot League and a fraternity system that fits the mission of the College.


Your points are well stated. It's no secret that the administration is against the Greek system...always has been, always will be. I just don't understand how they fail to see that the Greek system at Lafayette represents just about the only social life to be had at Lafayette. Of course this includes drinking in the bar rooms but it also includes, spinning (that's the term the kids use for dancing Carney), dance formals, charitable fundraisers (dance marathon, Football Run for Cancer, etc.), intramurals, etc. Now I am not naive or delusional. I think while fraternities do do a lot of public good for the school and the community at large I firmly believe they are largely social institutions. I just don't get why the administration doesn't see the value in such social organizations particulalry when the alternatives are located in downtown Easton. No matter how much of the city Lafayette buys up there will always be conflicts with residents, criminals and police.  In my mind it is better to keep as many of the students on campus as possible.

As for diversity on campus....I guess I would need to better understand the goal vis a vis diversity. Are we trying to make the campus and the admissions process more accomodating to minorities that might have been a victim of historical injustices (i.e. African Americans, Latinos, etc.)? Or is the goal to make Lafayette's campus more global in its make-up (Africans, Asians, etc.). Either way I think we need to be realistic. In regards to the minority Americans hasn't the goal always been to have the sub-community (in this case the Lafayette student body) mirror the community at large (shall we define this as Easton? Lehigh Valley? Eastern PA?). If that's the case I think we are ahead of the curve from a percentage perspective. If we're looking to go global how does an institution of 2,000 students with limited resources accomplish this beyond what we are doing? We have to be honest...we're never going to compete with urban schools in this regard. If I'm an 18 year old from China I am much more apt to go where I might see at least a few fellow Chinese during the course of my day. Where I might be able to get some Chinese food from time to time (and I'm not talking about Crab Rangoon).  Lafayette College in Easton PA aint it. Same goes for Ghana, Equador, India, et. al. I think we need to understand who we are and, ultimately who we serve. I'm all for trying to make Lafayette as inclusive as reasonably possible but when you start to alienate 90% of the population to placate 10% I have problems. That's just my opinion. Of course I'm just a straight white male fast approaching midddle age so my opinion counts for very little these days.
TheTruth

Part of the problem is the College doesn't really know what it wants to accomplish with diversity.  They know that they need to do a better of recruiting minorities and more importantly, a more economically diverse student body.  Students and parents are expecting to see more diversity on college campuses.  In this global society and the fact we tout ourselves as developing future leaders, having a more diverse campus, ethnically and econmically, gives our students a much broader perspective of the world.  And better prepares them for the "real world".  

For years, the college operated basically a quota system when recruiting minorities ( I have heard this from many faculty and adminstrators).  Often admitting students who were not prepared for Lafayette either academically or socially.  When you do this, you have students failing out, transferring, not happy on campus, etc.  I think some of the work that Barry mcCarty had done and the Admissions office under Carol Rowlands have done a much better job.  The partnership with the Posse program is great (I can tell you stories about the objections from unlikely sources that will leave you shaking your head) but more needs to be done in the recruiting area.  It can be done without compromising the Admission process.

The focus since the early to mid 90's has been to make the College more academically rigorus and add more student activities to de-emphasize drinking which put the fraternities right in the cross hairs of the faculty and administration.  Like I mentioned before, I love what they have done with adding clubs, emphasizing community service, intramurals, sophmore rush, etc.  Students have much more to do on campus other than drinking.  This makes Lafayette more attractive not just to minoritiy students but other majority students who have an interest in these co-curricular activites.  I think the College has unfairly laid the blame of the social ills on the fraternities without making a fair effort to pull them into the mix.  Why should we?  Because they are such a huge part of our College's history and another alternative for the students.  Unfortunately, I think we are beyond being able to repair the fraternity system.  Weiss and the BOT should just make the decision and dissolve the Greek system and face the consequences.

I agree we have to be realistic.  You fall into a trap when you try to use numbers as the measuring tool for diversity.  The make-up of student body is not as important as creating an atmosphere of community.  It's hard to do on a campus that historically was divided based on what fraternity, sorority, sports teams, major, etc. you belonged to.  We've made huge strides but we have also alienated too many alumni along the way.  It's sad when alumni don't feel connected to the college anymore and their voices aren't heard.  this is not what diversity is suppose to be about.
TheRock90

I'm curious.  Does the college track donations by affinity group?  Is the average contribution higher or lower for athletes, sorority/fraternity members, etc?  What about percentage of contributors, etc.?  How about by major?
Lafalum

For all you younger alums, this effort to get rid of the Greek system has been going on for 40 years. The administrations and the Bot have for years used as a whipping boy the greek system to blame for any percieved ill.
This has been a consistent call for all these years. I ask you what has remained constant? It has basically been the same coterie on the BOT.
There's your problem!!
65Pard

Lafalum wrote:
For all you younger alums, this effort to get rid of the Greek system has been going on for 40 years. The administrations and the Bot have for years used as a whipping boy the greek system to blame for any percieved ill.
This has been a consistent call for all these years. I ask you what has remained constant? It has basically been the same coterie on the BOT.
There's your problem!!


Make that 50 years....but the College needed the Greeks to house students as there was not enough dorm space back then and some was in such poor shape that they were demolished...

Then they figured out how to "appropriate" the frat houses and the erosion began... Sad
TheTruth

65Pard wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
For all you younger alums, this effort to get rid of the Greek system has been going on for 40 years. The administrations and the Bot have for years used as a whipping boy the greek system to blame for any percieved ill.
This has been a consistent call for all these years. I ask you what has remained constant? It has basically been the same coterie on the BOT.
There's your problem!!


Make that 50 years....but the College needed the Greeks to house students as there was not enough dorm space back then and some was in such poor shape that they were demolished...

Then they figured out how to "appropriate" the frat houses and the erosion began... Sad


Good points.  The other issue is the lack of eating spaces.  Also the fraternities provided entertainment in the 70's & 80's until the drinnking got out of hand.

all of this is why I think the College should have been proactive and working with the fraternities.  Too late now; only 5 left.  Not sure you can call the Greek system viable anymore.
Lafalum

The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.
TheTruth

Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.


Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this.  Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's.  And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".

The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men.  Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them.  And the College has not helped.  Enough blame for both.  It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising.  The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.
Pard94

TheTruth wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.


Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this.  Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's.  And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".

The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men.  Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them.  And the College has not helped.  Enough blame for both.  It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising.  The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.


I'm not sure what you mean by saying "times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them". First of all the fraternities changed considerably even in the four years I attended. They went from essentially no rules to quite a lot of them. Let's keep in mind that the transgression that ultimately got FIJI thrown off campus was a couple of over 21 students drinking beer in their room. If the same thing happened in South or Gates there is no incident to report. But because FIJI was "dry" (tell me again about no change over the years?) this was a major incident. Granted, FIJI was far from perfect over the years but let's not be fooled into thinking that this was anything short of the administrations latest salvo against the Greek system. Sorrorites our differnt than fraternities? Yeah, they use a lot more construction paper and glitter during Rush and the pee sitting down. They'll come under the knife once the main "offenders" (fraternities) are taken care of. Afterall, we can't have a campus that may or may not exclude the transgendered, left handed Indian Muslims. The Lafayette community, afterall, must mirroe the manufactured utopian image of society the egg-heads would have you believe exists in the real world. Problem is the real world doesn't cater to such beliefs and it never will. Why let reality get in the way though?
Lafalum

The alumni of the houses should have been more engaged in the operation of the houses so that they could say they were supporting the academic mission. I agree the Phi Gam expulsion was eggregious because the college tried to lump 25 years of minor incidents ( maybe a couple of worse ones) to create the image of a place out of control.
With the regard to my "politics." I'll stand by the comment. The "college"as I have defined it wants control. I have heard more than one senior administrator bemoan the fact that alums have conflicting loyalties that divert money from where the school wants it. (They give to frats and sports). If they had their way they'd love to tax every alum and they can allocate the money because they know best. When you give to sports they can cut the budget of that sport and equal amount. When you give to your local and the local feeds and houses themselves there is not much they can do!!  Their view of the world doesn't fit with their impression of what goes on in a fraternity. After all most of these guys are not greek or athletes.
Franks Tanks

Lafalum wrote:
The alumni of the houses should have been more engaged in the operation of the houses so that they could say they were supporting the academic mission. I agree the Phi Gam expulsion was eggregious because the college tried to lump 25 years of minor incidents ( maybe a couple of worse ones) to create the image of a place out of control.
With the regard to my "politics." I'll stand by the comment. The "college"as I have defined it wants control. I have heard more than one senior administrator bemoan the fact that alums have conflicting loyalties that divert money from where the school wants it. (They give to frats and sports). If they had their way they'd love to tax every alum and they can allocate the money because they know best. When you give to sports they can cut the budget of that sport and equal amount. When you give to your local and the local feeds and houses themselves there is not much they can do!!  Their view of the world doesn't fit with their impression of what goes on in a fraternity. After all most of these guys are not greek or athletes.


The Phi Gam house association and brothers were as invloved as any.  When I was in school our house GPA and participation in campus events was far better than the other large houses.  Bit it doesnt matter, the admin wanted the house gone for a about a decade and saw a golden opportunity.
TheTruth

Pard94 wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.


Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this.  Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's.  And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".

The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men.  Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them.  And the College has not helped.  Enough blame for both.  It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising.  The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.


I'm not sure what you mean by saying "times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them". First of all the fraternities changed considerably even in the four years I attended. They went from essentially no rules to quite a lot of them. Let's keep in mind that the transgression that ultimately got FIJI thrown off campus was a couple of over 21 students drinking beer in their room. If the same thing happened in South or Gates there is no incident to report. But because FIJI was "dry" (tell me again about no change over the years?) this was a major incident. Granted, FIJI was far from perfect over the years but let's not be fooled into thinking that this was anything short of the administrations latest salvo against the Greek system. Sorrorites our differnt than fraternities? Yeah, they use a lot more construction paper and glitter during Rush and the pee sitting down. They'll come under the knife once the main "offenders" (fraternities) are taken care of. Afterall, we can't have a campus that may or may not exclude the transgendered, left handed Indian Muslims. The Lafayette community, afterall, must mirroe the manufactured utopian image of society the egg-heads would have you believe exists in the real world. Problem is the real world doesn't cater to such beliefs and it never will. Why let reality get in the way though?


What I mean by that "times have changed" is at one time the College "needed" fraternities because of housing, eating spaces and entertainment as others have mentioned.  Remember the College was all male until 1970 so fraternities were a much bigger part of the college experience and in many cases the only ties some alumni have to the College.  They became more social organizations in the mid to late 70's as the female population grew and many house got rid of things like "house mothers" and dressing up for dinner.   Seemingly minor things but very important to the overall function and role of the fraternity and the house.  The fraternites began to focus more on parties which the school tolerated because it kept the student drinking on campus away from the town of Easton and there were limited activites in the area for the students.  The cops were ok with it and the college tolerated it.

In the 80's, the drinking got out of hand.  Fraternites were "on-tap" every night.  There were pub night each night except Sunday.  Basically, Fraternities and drinking became synomous.  The College earned the reputation of being a party school which annoyed the faculty (although I can share stories with certain faculty who frequently partied with the students).  We were theh number 3 party school by the "Preppy handbook" back in the 80's.  Great for the students but the administration and faculty hated it.  This drinking was not just at Lafayette.

The thing that changed everything was PA Act 31 which was passed in 1987 or 1988.  Basically, this law made those who provided the alcohol responsible for their patrons actions.  Basically, this forced the school to crack down on the drinking on campus.  The target became fraternities.  You experienced many of the changes in the early 90's as I did in the late 80's.  Many of the fraternities did not make this adjustment from social organizations back to leadership building organizations.  To be fair, the administration did not help either.  This is where I get upset with the College's handling of the fraternites.  It's too late to turn it around.

Lafalum brings up great points about the views of many adminstrators toward fraternities (not all but most).  They forget that fraternity life was very important to many of our alumni's Lafayette Experience.   Like I often remind people that Lafayette football didn't begin in the 90's.  The Lafayette Experience of today is not the same as the Lafayette Experience of the 50's, 60's 70's, etc.  You can't operate the school in a vacuum of today.  Colleges are suppose to be about traditions and history.  Fraternities are an important part of Lafayette's history.
Pard94

That's all well and good...and I appreciate the response. What you are not acknowledging, however, is that the fraternities DID change right along with the times. No doubt the fraternities experienced thier peak in the 80's as far as partying was concerned. Over the next 20 years things in the frat houses changed drastically. Back in the 80's underage drinking was tolerated, open containers outside the houses was the norm (made for some crazy All College Days) and pretty much life was akin to the final days of Rome...no rules...if it felt good do it. I attended Lafayette from 90-94. When I was rushing FIJI and other fraternities in 1990 kegs were still allowed in barooms of fraternity houses. This was the final year of that. Underage drinking was not permitted but you could get around that rule fairly easily with some planning. By my sophomore year...no more kegs. Bars and taps were ripped out of bar rooms to be in compliance. Fine. the sight of 50 cases of beer being loaded into walk in refrigerators on a Friday afternoon was now the new norm around campuses. Not as convenient as kegs but hardly a deathblow to the party scene at Lafayette. And that's the way it stayed for my tenure at Lafayette. My little brother attended Lafayette and was also a FIJI from 1998-2001. By the time he was a senior no more beer was allowed in the bar rooms on campus. This drove all of the parties to off campus apartments. They were now under the jursidiction of the Easton PD. I don't know if this was part of the plan of the administration. I can't imagine they actually thought such a move would curtail underage drinking or drinking in general...these are smart people right? Shortly thereafter FIJI anyway went completely "dry" officially. No more beer in the house at all. Not for parties, not for alumni functions not for personal consumption. No more officially sponsored parties on or off campus. Effectively FIJI became what you described back in the 70's. It was solely a living organization with some very mild social gatherings periodically. It was under these harsh restrictions that FIJI slipped up. Can't really blame the transgressors as it was bound to happen given the expectations.

So I'm quite willing to accept that the times changed. Not so much when you tell me the fraternities didn't change along with them. Just ask any FIJI who graduated in say 1983 what they thought of the 2008 FIJI. It was completely unrecognizeable. As you can see from the above account. Lafayette was very patient. They took their time in setting a trap for the fraternities. The Phi Gams fought the good fight but they sprung the trap as they were absolutely bound to do. The trap has been reset and it's waiting for the next victim. I have my money on KDR. How nice would it be for the college to reclaim that whole section of campus? They could dedicate and entire corner of the campus to the Society of Transgendered Indian Muslims (STIM). In fact I would think it would be nothing short of racisim if we didn't appoint a tenured faculty member to make sure the STIM students feel sanguine, tranquil, welcomed and included 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Welcome to your Lafayette College 2009 edition.  Crying or Very sad
DaveR

TheTruth wrote:
Pard94 wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.


Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this.  Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's.  And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".

The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men.  Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them.  And the College has not helped.  Enough blame for both.  It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising.  The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.


I'm not sure what you mean by saying "times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them". First of all the fraternities changed considerably even in the four years I attended. They went from essentially no rules to quite a lot of them. Let's keep in mind that the transgression that ultimately got FIJI thrown off campus was a couple of over 21 students drinking beer in their room. If the same thing happened in South or Gates there is no incident to report. But because FIJI was "dry" (tell me again about no change over the years?) this was a major incident. Granted, FIJI was far from perfect over the years but let's not be fooled into thinking that this was anything short of the administrations latest salvo against the Greek system. Sorrorites our differnt than fraternities? Yeah, they use a lot more construction paper and glitter during Rush and the pee sitting down. They'll come under the knife once the main "offenders" (fraternities) are taken care of. Afterall, we can't have a campus that may or may not exclude the transgendered, left handed Indian Muslims. The Lafayette community, afterall, must mirroe the manufactured utopian image of society the egg-heads would have you believe exists in the real world. Problem is the real world doesn't cater to such beliefs and it never will. Why let reality get in the way though?


What I mean by that "times have changed" is at one time the College "needed" fraternities because of housing, eating spaces and entertainment as others have mentioned.  Remember the College was all male until 1970 so fraternities were a much bigger part of the college experience and in many cases the only ties some alumni have to the College.  They became more social organizations in the mid to late 70's as the female population grew and many house got rid of things like "house mothers" and dressing up for dinner.   Seemingly minor things but very important to the overall function and role of the fraternity and the house.  The fraternites began to focus more on parties which the school tolerated because it kept the student drinking on campus away from the town of Easton and there were limited activites in the area for the students.  The cops were ok with it and the college tolerated it.

In the 80's, the drinking got out of hand.  Fraternites were "on-tap" every night.  There were pub night each night except Sunday.  Basically, Fraternities and drinking became synomous.  The College earned the reputation of being a party school which annoyed the faculty (although I can share stories with certain faculty who frequently partied with the students).  We were theh number 3 party school by the "Preppy handbook" back in the 80's.  Great for the students but the administration and faculty hated it.  This drinking was not just at Lafayette.

The thing that changed everything was PA Act 31 which was passed in 1987 or 1988.  Basically, this law made those who provided the alcohol responsible for their patrons actions.  Basically, this forced the school to crack down on the drinking on campus.  The target became fraternities.  You experienced many of the changes in the early 90's as I did in the late 80's.  Many of the fraternities did not make this adjustment from social organizations back to leadership building organizations.  To be fair, the administration did not help either.  This is where I get upset with the College's handling of the fraternites.  It's too late to turn it around.

Lafalum brings up great points about the views of many adminstrators toward fraternities (not all but most).  They forget that fraternity life was very important to many of our alumni's Lafayette Experience.   Like I often remind people that Lafayette football didn't begin in the 90's.  The Lafayette Experience of today is not the same as the Lafayette Experience of the 50's, 60's 70's, etc.  You can't operate the school in a vacuum of today.  Colleges are suppose to be about traditions and history.  Fraternities are an important part of Lafayette's history.


Interesting discussion, and I feel sad for the FIJI brothers, who are the latest victims (my fraternity fell victim to the administration in the late '90s).

I'm curious, however, why the same pressures have evidently not had a similar effect at Lehigh, where they were recently recognized by Playboy as one of the top "party schools".  http://www.playboy.com/articles/t...schools-2009-the-works/index.html
Franks Tanks

DaveR wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
Pard94 wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.


Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this.  Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's.  And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".

The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men.  Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them.  And the College has not helped.  Enough blame for both.  It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising.  The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.


I'm not sure what you mean by saying "times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them". First of all the fraternities changed considerably even in the four years I attended. They went from essentially no rules to quite a lot of them. Let's keep in mind that the transgression that ultimately got FIJI thrown off campus was a couple of over 21 students drinking beer in their room. If the same thing happened in South or Gates there is no incident to report. But because FIJI was "dry" (tell me again about no change over the years?) this was a major incident. Granted, FIJI was far from perfect over the years but let's not be fooled into thinking that this was anything short of the administrations latest salvo against the Greek system. Sorrorites our differnt than fraternities? Yeah, they use a lot more construction paper and glitter during Rush and the pee sitting down. They'll come under the knife once the main "offenders" (fraternities) are taken care of. Afterall, we can't have a campus that may or may not exclude the transgendered, left handed Indian Muslims. The Lafayette community, afterall, must mirroe the manufactured utopian image of society the egg-heads would have you believe exists in the real world. Problem is the real world doesn't cater to such beliefs and it never will. Why let reality get in the way though?


What I mean by that "times have changed" is at one time the College "needed" fraternities because of housing, eating spaces and entertainment as others have mentioned.  Remember the College was all male until 1970 so fraternities were a much bigger part of the college experience and in many cases the only ties some alumni have to the College.  They became more social organizations in the mid to late 70's as the female population grew and many house got rid of things like "house mothers" and dressing up for dinner.   Seemingly minor things but very important to the overall function and role of the fraternity and the house.  The fraternites began to focus more on parties which the school tolerated because it kept the student drinking on campus away from the town of Easton and there were limited activites in the area for the students.  The cops were ok with it and the college tolerated it.

In the 80's, the drinking got out of hand.  Fraternites were "on-tap" every night.  There were pub night each night except Sunday.  Basically, Fraternities and drinking became synomous.  The College earned the reputation of being a party school which annoyed the faculty (although I can share stories with certain faculty who frequently partied with the students).  We were theh number 3 party school by the "Preppy handbook" back in the 80's.  Great for the students but the administration and faculty hated it.  This drinking was not just at Lafayette.

The thing that changed everything was PA Act 31 which was passed in 1987 or 1988.  Basically, this law made those who provided the alcohol responsible for their patrons actions.  Basically, this forced the school to crack down on the drinking on campus.  The target became fraternities.  You experienced many of the changes in the early 90's as I did in the late 80's.  Many of the fraternities did not make this adjustment from social organizations back to leadership building organizations.  To be fair, the administration did not help either.  This is where I get upset with the College's handling of the fraternites.  It's too late to turn it around.

Lafalum brings up great points about the views of many adminstrators toward fraternities (not all but most).  They forget that fraternity life was very important to many of our alumni's Lafayette Experience.   Like I often remind people that Lafayette football didn't begin in the 90's.  The Lafayette Experience of today is not the same as the Lafayette Experience of the 50's, 60's 70's, etc.  You can't operate the school in a vacuum of today.  Colleges are suppose to be about traditions and history.  Fraternities are an important part of Lafayette's history.


Interesting discussion, and I feel sad for the FIJI brothers, who are the latest victims (my fraternity fell victim to the administration in the late '90s).

I'm curious, however, why the same pressures have evidently not had a similar effect at Lehigh, where they were recently recognized by Playboy as one of the top "party schools".  http://www.playboy.com/articles/t...schools-2009-the-works/index.html


The greek scene at Lehigh is certainly stronger than Lafayette, but they are getting pinched over there as well.  Lehigh made an announcement they would be cancelling Greek week going forward because things were getting out of hand, and they are slowly picking off frats as well.

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