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Lafalum

president Byerly webcast

Did anyone lister to the webcast…any thoughts!!
flyfisher

Trying to watch the replay but it doesn't work.
But we did have a bunch of cops on campus today.
ed65

I watched it.  Alison touched on some relevant issues but I was a little disappointed in the selection of questions.  A fair amount of softballs IMHO.  

I wish Alex Karpatian(sp) would have said that resolution of the fraternity issue would be to welcome Chi Phi back on campus.

Also, no questions about athletics -- or were the questions "carefully" selected as I suspect they were.
NewXbo

The 300 block of Cattell Street is closed. There is a suicide threat somewhere in that block per scanner transmissions. If you are in the CHT, you can't leave.
ed65

NewXbo wrote:
The 300 block of Cattell Street is closed. There is a suicide threat somewhere in that block per scanner transmissions. If you are in the CHT, you can't leave.


Oh for the days at the CHT.  There were plenty of times that I did not want to leave!
flyfisher

Exam week
Lafalum

ed65 wrote:
I watched it.  Alison touched on some relevant issues but I was a little disappointed in the selection of questions.  A fair amount of softballs IMHO.  

I wish Alex Karpatian(sp) would have said that resolution of the fraternity issue would be to welcome Chi Phi back on campus.

Also, no questions about athletics -- or were the questions "carefully" selected as I suspect they were.


Actually, she gave us misinformation as no greek organization application has been accepted, much less accepted to be recognized to date as an interest group for the fall.
ed65

Lafalum wrote:
ed65 wrote:
I watched it.  Alison touched on some relevant issues but I was a little disappointed in the selection of questions.  A fair amount of softballs IMHO.  

I wish Alex Karpatian(sp) would have said that resolution of the fraternity issue would be to welcome Chi Phi back on campus.

Also, no questions about athletics -- or were the questions "carefully" selected as I suspect they were.


Actually, she gave us misinformation as no Greek organization application has been accepted, much less accepted to be recognized to date as an interest group for the fall.


Not surprising.  I think this was a PR attempt by Allison and the Alumni Association and not a place for tough questions.  Her engaging manner is in sharp contrast to her two predecessors so that counts for something.  If I were Alison, I would stay as far away from the fraternity issue as possible.

What would be really gutsy would be to have a Press Conference where alums were the reporters and a broader range of topics covered, and follow up questions encouraged.  Alison speaks pretty well on her feet (unrehearsed) so I think she would handle it well.  Now that would be thinking outside the box by our vaunted alumni association.
flyfisher

She does appear to be engaging and a good leader. I would agree with Ed that she appears to be avoiding the fraternity issue as well as the fact that we have not had a semester with winning teams in years now. However if you are a good leader sooner or later you have to tackle the tough issues.

Those 2 issues are important to alumni and alumni who can donate. The same power families continue to donate to LC. The school is fortunate to have such great support. However the next level down, the masses, those 2 issues have an impact in how they contribute, or so many have told me. It will be interesting how she eventually addresses these issues.
BPard

Lafalum wrote:
Actually, she gave us misinformation as no greek organization application has been accepted, much less accepted to be recognized to date as an interest group for the fall.


Newspaper said there are two groups with that status as of May 1st.

https://www.lafayettestudentnews....5/01/fraternity-takes-first-step/

Can someone post a link to the recording? I didn't get a chance to watch it live.
Lafalum

BPard wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
Actually, she gave us misinformation as no greek organization application has been accepted, much less accepted to be recognized to date as an interest group for the fall.


Newspaper said there are two groups with that status as of May 1st.



According my friends at Chi Phi and DTD who are involved, the school as of last week has NOT accepted applications to be recognized as an interest group. They  have NOT appointed a committee to review applications or even decided what should be in the application . Now maybe something has changed over the week end but  I think NOT. This process is either being slow walked or the parties are incompetent.
flyfisher

Lafa, you are correct
carney2

I'm still holding out hope for Dr. Byerly and I'm holding to my "5 years to make a President" yardstick,

but

we are getting close to her two year anniversary and should at least be seeing a willingness to engage some tough issues.  At this point the faculty is still in charge and we have become a Fourth Reich police state.  

Anyone seeing any progress?  PLEASE!
NewXbo

Your "CARNEY FOR PRESIDENT" signs are starting to pop up on campus.
ed65

I think Alison is hamstrung by the Board and its Executive Committee (and probably the faculty as Carney suggests).  The process seems to be to study everything to death and let administrators like Dorio(sp) take care of the details (and Ms. Diorio is cautious to a fault according to my sources).  Alison definitely is in charge of leading the Capital Campaign and planning for the college's future which may be a good thing.  For her to be involved in the day to day nonsense that goes on at the college is not the best use of her time as CEO.  So it seems like she has delegated a lot to the administrators like Diorio so we need to hope they are worth what they are being paid and deserve Alison's confidence.

From an athletics standpoint, the spotlight is very much on Dorio and she needs to be seriously questioned about the losing records of nearly all the teams.  But she seems to be isolated from any alumni involvement so if that continues then it is quite appropriate for alums to start questioning the President.
Lafalum

You are a wise man ed!! Exactly to the point…..it's where the buck stops eventually!!
carney2

NewXbo wrote:
Your "CARNEY FOR PRESIDENT" signs are starting to pop up on campus.


Are these the signs of progress that I asked for?
carney2

ed65 wrote:
For her to be involved in the day to day nonsense that goes on at the college is not the best use of her time as CEO.  So it seems like she has delegated a lot to the administrators like Diorio so we need to hope they are worth what they are being paid and deserve Alison's confidence.


On the contrary, some involvement in "day to day nonsense" is absolutely necessary to show that she's interested and involved.  Simply asking a question or two when in the presence of one of her underlings might just give a hint that she doesn't think that things are going in the right direction.  Examples:

"Why was the case of the kid who pulled down the green "game" flag on the quad turned over to the authorities?  Do we have any remedies in-house that would not potentially ruin this kid's life?"

"Should we do a study to see if perhaps we have overreacted to alcohol use on this campus?  How does our stance compare to similar institutions?"

"The College is developing a reputation for 'no fun' and 'no social life.'  What are we doing to counteract it?"

The list is endless.  If she isn't in charge, who is?  And don't say the Board of Trustees.  There's one group who has no idea of what's going on or anything about the "day to day nonsense."  One of her key jobs is to fill the gap between them and reality.  There is a lot of wiggle room in that gap and that's where we need to see some movement.  If she's just a fund raiser we don't need her.
ed65

Carney: Alison's job when she came to LC was to focus on the future and to take charge of a leadership campaign.  God knows she has enough administrators there to handle the day to day.  I will retract my description of the day to day as "nonsense."  Carney is right there are day to day issues that require the CEO's attention but IMO the direct reports should be handling the majority of them.  The CEO gets involved when necessary of course.  If the direct reports aren't doing the job then it is the CEO's function to get rid of them.  As for the Board or more specifically the Executive Committee (and you can be sure the exec committee is very involved in a lot of issues including day to day), I think it depends on the issue as to when they should be involved.  

We can talk about the items on Carney's list of day to day issues and I'm sure others can come up with their own list.  But the day to day issues that the CEO gets involved in should again be a short one.  It is the job of the Chief Operating Officer to focus on the day to day. While that position does not seem to exist at LC, there is the Provost for dealing with the faculty, a CFO, Kim Spang for fund raising, the Director of Admissions and Diorio for whatever she does in addition to Athletics and student life.

As to Carney's comment about not needing Alison as a fund raiser, that was a bit of cheap shot.  I very specifically said that her focus should be on the future of the college as well as the Capital Campaign.
Lafalum

Ed is correct the executive committee of the BOT is far too involved. It is the executive committee that sets the tone. Although Rothkopf wanted division 3 it would not have gotten as far as it did if the Ramer and his LTs didn't push it forward. The BoT executive had to have gone on record against fraternities which was only thwarted by the facts.

I have heard from my friends who were close to the  Chi Phi suit that the College's hired attorney felt he "worked for the BOT" not the president. The Bot is the president's boss. If Allison wants to  keep her job that's ultimately who she must please.
carney2

Lafalum wrote:
The Bot is the president's boss. If Allison wants to  keep her job that's ultimately who she must please.


So we should chock her up as the 5th incompetent President in a row?!!  I've been ANGRY for some time.  Now you're getting me depressed.
Lafalum

Her competence is how she navigates between the BOT, faculty and alumni.
It is a skill and as she succeeds it will give her power. I agree with you, we will see in five years. She clearly has identified the critical issues and how those issues are resolved will define her success. To my mind there are three issues that will show us whether she will be successful. One, the greek issue must be resolved and she can't let the bureaucracy stone wall her. If we arrive in September without a least two returning frats identified and clearly on their way to full operation she will be viewed as an obfuscator.
Two, she probably has some time with the athletic issue but if after five years we are still talking about 1 winning team every two years, we have a problem, and third is the issue of size for school. Even the faculty in their report on the size of the school admitted  that standing pat is not possible. If you read the report there is a backhanded criticism of Weiss for not tackling the issue in an organized and thoughtful way.

For what it's worth I believe she has the skill and many  of the old farts on the BOT will probably be gone in the coming years. I hope to be proven right.
NewXbo

I can see it now, Carney as a hit man. Shouldn't take more than a month.
carney2

NewXbo wrote:
I can see it now, Carney as a hit man. Shouldn't take more than a month.


Some of these "assignments" I'd handle pro bono.
leopard88

You can hire M#%*$#@! Jones as your consultant.

flyfisher

Some good comments here. I tend to agree with Ed65, though I don't know the cast of characters like you guys do. Agree that she should be involved in the big picture stuf. Some comments here about the BOT concern me but I don't know them. Appreciate the insight from Ed and others. Seems to be a very political environment. Lots of drama and back room issues.
BillS

flyfisher wrote:
Some good comments here. I tend to agree with Ed65, though I don't know the cast of characters like you guys do. Agree that she should be involved in the big picture stuf. Some comments here about the BOT concern me but I don't know them. Appreciate the insight from Ed and others. Seems to be a very political environment. Lots of drama and back room issues.
Every college President since Robert Rotberg knows you have to compromise or cave to the faculty if you don't they will have no confidence vote to remove you...The BOT has their head in the sand they always cave to the faculty.
ed65

Bill: I appreciate your thought about the faculty and you may be at least partly correct but I sure as hell hope that this isn't the case.  Generally speaking, faculty issues center around the competition for resources (especially financial) and a few outliers who pursue personal political agendas.   The faculty clearly have a voice but surely should not be running the show.
flyfisher

I took the time to look up the BOT. These are some very talented people. Surprised there were 39 of them. And looking at the ages of these people they came through Lafayette during the good days. I am more confused than ever about how the College is managed. I guess I shouldn't really care. It's really not much of my business. Just a little surprised where the College is now compared to what it was when the BOT was in college.
ed65

Totally agree with you Fly.  It is time for some of the BOT oldies to fly off into the sunset.

While I have a number of issues with the BOT, especially the Exec Committee, from the standpoint of the Sports Forum, I'd like to see us start acting like a D-1 School with 23 intercollegiate sports.
seenalot

How about acting a bit more like a business and stop pandering to the employees....
flyfisher

We come here and complain about the fraternity issues and the Athletics. However the bigger issues are fundraising, size of school, financial strength, long term stability and overall direction. We probably hate to admit it but I think they view athletics and the frats as just a part of campus life and not important to the direction of the school.   Both somewhat important because they drive school pride and enhance fundraising. it does appear Byerly is working on the major issues, much as some of us hate to admit it. They could sure gain a lot of good will by committing more to athletics and showing some commitment to go the Greek system. The College does a lot of things right. That building they built recently fits in to campus beautifully. Very well done.
flyfisher

I think this is what we are about. A lot to be proud of. LC leads the PL and 3rd in the country.

EASTON, Pa. - Eighteen teams and 78 percent of Lafayette's 23 Division I sports have earned NCAA Public Recognition Awards, the third highest percentage of all NCAA Division I schools topping the Academic Progress Rate (APR). Dartmouth placed 93 percent and Northwestern 79 percent.

The NCAA Public Recognition Awards are given each year to teams scoring in the top 10 percent in each sport with their APRs. The APR is the NCAA's measure of academic achievement for every Division I sports team which measures eligibility and retention each semester. The most recent APRs are multi-year rates based on scores from the 2010-11, 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 academic years.

Seventeen of Lafayette's 18 teams honored participate in Patriot League-sponsored sports (baseball, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's cross country, men's and women's soccer, men's and women's swimming and diving, men's and women's indoor and outdoor track and field, softball, women's lacrosse, women's tennis and volleyball) with men's fencing also garnering the honor. The Patriot League (105) was second only to the Ivy League (110) for overall teams awarded at full-member institutions.

There are 25 Patriot League teams among the 129 nationally which have received a Public Recognition Award for academic success in each of the 10 years of the program. Lafayette leads the way with six teams in that group, followed by Bucknell with five, Lehigh and Holy Cross at four, Colgate totaling three, Loyola with two and Boston University with one.

For a full listing of Public Recognition Awards by sport, school, conference or year, visit NCAA.org.
leopard88

flyfisher wrote:
I think this is what we are about. A lot to be proud of. LC leads the PL and 3rd in the country.

EASTON, Pa. - Eighteen teams and 78 percent of Lafayette's 23 Division I sports have earned NCAA Public Recognition Awards, the third highest percentage of all NCAA Division I schools topping the Academic Progress Rate (APR). Dartmouth placed 93 percent and Northwestern 79 percent.

The NCAA Public Recognition Awards are given each year to teams scoring in the top 10 percent in each sport with their APRs. The APR is the NCAA's measure of academic achievement for every Division I sports team which measures eligibility and retention each semester. The most recent APRs are multi-year rates based on scores from the 2010-11, 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 academic years.

Seventeen of Lafayette's 18 teams honored participate in Patriot League-sponsored sports (baseball, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's cross country, men's and women's soccer, men's and women's swimming and diving, men's and women's indoor and outdoor track and field, softball, women's lacrosse, women's tennis and volleyball) with men's fencing also garnering the honor. The Patriot League (105) was second only to the Ivy League (110) for overall teams awarded at full-member institutions.

There are 25 Patriot League teams among the 129 nationally which have received a Public Recognition Award for academic success in each of the 10 years of the program. Lafayette leads the way with six teams in that group, followed by Bucknell with five, Lehigh and Holy Cross at four, Colgate totaling three, Loyola with two and Boston University with one.

For a full listing of Public Recognition Awards by sport, school, conference or year, visit NCAA.org.


Very Happy
Lafalum

So we can't win because we're smart??!! But not as smart as the Ivies or the  other PL schoolsnwho do win.  Yes I love our school and our commitment to have true student athletes. But one winning  team every two years is absurd.
We are either not recruiting well or coaching well, and we should be trying to find out why!
flyfisher

Lafalum wrote:
So we can't win because we're smart??!! But not as smart as the Ivies or the  other PL schoolsnwho do win.  Yes I love our school and our commitment to have true student athletes. But one winning  team every two years is absurd.
We are either not recruiting well or coaching well, and we should be trying to find out why!


I am not disagreeing with you but I do think I am starting to understand the picture.
Lafalum

flyfisher wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
So we can't win because we're smart??!! But not as smart as the Ivies or the  other PL schoolsnwho do win.  Yes I love our school and our commitment to have true student athletes. But one winning  team every two years is absurd.
We are either not recruiting well or coaching well, and we should be trying to find out why!


I am not disagreeing with you but I do think I am starting to understand the picture.


An AD at another school once said to me, " There nothing to be learned by constant losing, or else we learn it's not worth the effort." Totally agree with the statement. You end up losing the people who care about winning on your  staff, and keep those who are indifferent. That is where we are. I am not sure that is the outcome that serves us well.

We can win and not lose our values in the process, other schools do it, Princeton, Stanford and we could name a dozen more!!
NewXbo

Lafalum, what do you know abut the college buying the former Easton Iron & Metal scrap yard at 1100 Bushkill drive? Previously they purchased the former Hummel Lumber at 901 Bushkill Drive which appears to be used as a parking lot.

Easton Iron & Metal Scrap Yard previously owned by the Stein family was cited numerous times for environmental issues. Someone has been cleaning up the site which is on both sides of Bushkill Drive and borders the Bushkill Creek. I believe that at least part of the property is in the flood zone.

There are a number of business's between the Hummel site and the Stein site (Plumbing Supplies, Workout Center, a propane distribution and gas station and a multiple businesses building) as  well as a few double homes.

Any idea if this is true and if it is what is the purpose?
Lafalum

NewXbo wrote:
Lafalum, what do you know abut the college buying the former Easton Iron & Metal scrap yard at 1100 Bushkill drive? Previously they purchased the former Hummel Lumber at 901 Bushkill Drive which appears to be used as a parking lot.

Easton Iron & Metal Scrap Yard previously owned by the Stein family was cited numerous times for environmental issues. Someone has been cleaning up the site which is on both sides of Bushkill Drive and borders the Bushkill Creek. I believe that at least part of the property is in the flood zone.

There are a number of business's between the Hummel site and the Stein site (Plumbing Supplies, Workout Center, a propane distribution and gas station and a multiple businesses building) as  well as a few double homes.

Any idea if this is true and if it is what is the purpose?


I did not hear anything but the area was designated for clean up and the state (during the Rendell administration) had promised a 10 million dollar grant to help with the clean up. It may be part of that. It is a flood zone and any building torn down would be very difficult to get permission to replace. Just guessing
bethlehempard

There will be an auction June 16 on the site to get rid of equipment and vehicles. As for the property, ?
Bogus Megapardus

    "Eighteen teams and 78 percent of Lafayette's 23 Division I sports have earned NCAA Public Recognition Awards, the third highest percentage of all NCAA Division I schools topping the Academic Progress Rate (APR). Dartmouth placed 93 percent and Northwestern 79 percent."

I read flyfisher's comment (above) and I pull out the remainder of my hair.  Lafayette not only is the NESCAC on steroids, but it's an incredibly good DI school in its own right.  This is not some make-weight DI wannabe that moved up just to try to get the publicity associated with a potential spot in the NCAA basketball tournament.

Just look at those numbers - why is it that high school college counselors and high school coaches don't get together and insist - really demand - that their top students apply to Lafayette?  What more can a college possibly do to present itself as one of the very best options in the U.S. for a serious student-athlete?  Lafayette ought to be the first word out of their mouths.  SMH.



EDIT -
    "There are 25 Patriot League teams among the 129 nationally which have received a Public Recognition Award for academic success in each of the 10 years of the program. Lafayette leads the way with six teams in that group, followed by Bucknell with five, Lehigh and Holy Cross at four, Colgate totaling three, Loyola with two and Boston University with one."

Consider that for a moment.  One-fifth of the academic success awards across the nation went to PL teams - one fifth of all Division I schools, with Lafayette leading the way.

Suck that one up, Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, etc.

That's just incredible.
ed65

Bogie: the answer might be:  The kids we want (those who qualify academically) have choices.  And they may choose to go to schools with winning programs.
flyfisher

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
    "Eighteen teams and 78 percent of Lafayette's 23 Division I sports have earned NCAA Public Recognition Awards, the third highest percentage of all NCAA Division I schools topping the Academic Progress Rate (APR). Dartmouth placed 93 percent and Northwestern 79 percent."

I read flyfisher's comment (above) and I pull out the remainder of my hair.  Lafayette not only is the NESCAC on steroids, but it's an incredibly good DI school in its own right.  This is not some make-weight DI wannabe that moved up just to try to get the publicity associated with a potential spot in the NCAA basketball tournament.

Just look at those numbers - why is it that high school college counselors and high school coaches don't get together and insist - really demand - that their top students apply to Lafayette?  What more can a college possibly do to present itself as one of the very best options in the U.S. for a serious student-athlete?  Lafayette ought to be the first word out of their mouths.  SMH.



EDIT -
    "There are 25 Patriot League teams among the 129 nationally which have received a Public Recognition Award for academic success in each of the 10 years of the program. Lafayette leads the way with six teams in that group, followed by Bucknell with five, Lehigh and Holy Cross at four, Colgate totaling three, Loyola with two and Boston University with one."

Consider that for a moment.  One-fifth of the academic success awards across the nation went to PL teams - one fifth of all Division I schools, with Lafayette leading the way.

Suck that one up, Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, etc.

That's just incredible.


I believe the Patriot League is the best deal going. I preach it everywhere I go. The PL has the total package. Strong academics, competitive it's, beautiful campus(s), coaches that care, strong alumni support while in school and after. Lots of positives. Not everyone in the south is going to consider the PL for a variety of reasons. Some kids and parents don't want here kids that far away. Plus travel expenses can add up. Some don't like the cold weather; it snowed 4 weeks before exams and it was in the mid 40's at night during exam week. Some families don't see the extra benefits of the alumni base and the northeast. If you have never worked or traveled the big northeast cities then you just don't know.

The recruiting is tougher. The obvious kids or the HS coaches with connections to PL schools will get their kids found. But if you don't have those connections it can be tough. First of all the college coaches cannot see any of your HS games live. They can't travel that far. And film is only so good. Nothing is better than live. That means kids must go to camps at PL schools. Not many families are going to spend that money or have the time to take that shot in the dark. It's a long shot. So for those that do you go to camp and you have to have a great day because that is their only chance to see you live.

I can tell you that the PL schools have expanded their boundaries with scholies. Every school but Fordham has been to our HS this year, or at least called and asked the coach if he had any kids they should see. Things are evolving.

And it's sad to say but too many parents think with the wrong ego. They get focused on playing at the highest level possible even if the kid doesn't have the talent. Who wants to go to a bigger school, sit the bench the whole time, get a crappy degree, no alumni support?  I knew a long time ago that my sons would most likely not play past college. Oldest had a shot after college as a snapper but got injured at the end at lber. We realized education would carry the boys much farther than sports. Many parents don't realize that. Lots of parents still ask us how we could send our son so far away and do we miss him? Sure it's a little tough but we believe it is worth it. Plus it's just a 8 1/2 car ride or a cheap flight. In the grand scheme of things that is nothing. I flew up twice last year just to watch practice and take him to dinner.

The PL is a special place. The schedules you play are cool; a game or two against a big D1A, some Ivy League games, great conference schedule, fun places to visit, great education, good coaches, I could go on and on. Somehow we just have to get that message out to others.
leopard88

flyfisher wrote:
Bogus Megapardus wrote:
    "Eighteen teams and 78 percent of Lafayette's 23 Division I sports have earned NCAA Public Recognition Awards, the third highest percentage of all NCAA Division I schools topping the Academic Progress Rate (APR). Dartmouth placed 93 percent and Northwestern 79 percent."

I read flyfisher's comment (above) and I pull out the remainder of my hair.  Lafayette not only is the NESCAC on steroids, but it's an incredibly good DI school in its own right.  This is not some make-weight DI wannabe that moved up just to try to get the publicity associated with a potential spot in the NCAA basketball tournament.

Just look at those numbers - why is it that high school college counselors and high school coaches don't get together and insist - really demand - that their top students apply to Lafayette?  What more can a college possibly do to present itself as one of the very best options in the U.S. for a serious student-athlete?  Lafayette ought to be the first word out of their mouths.  SMH.



EDIT -
    "There are 25 Patriot League teams among the 129 nationally which have received a Public Recognition Award for academic success in each of the 10 years of the program. Lafayette leads the way with six teams in that group, followed by Bucknell with five, Lehigh and Holy Cross at four, Colgate totaling three, Loyola with two and Boston University with one."

Consider that for a moment.  One-fifth of the academic success awards across the nation went to PL teams - one fifth of all Division I schools, with Lafayette leading the way.

Suck that one up, Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, etc.

That's just incredible.


I believe the Patriot League is the best deal going. I preach it everywhere I go. The PL has the total package. Strong academics, competitive it's, beautiful campus(s), coaches that care, strong alumni support while in school and after. Lots of positives. Not everyone in the south is going to consider the PL for a variety of reasons. Some kids and parents don't want here kids that far away. Plus travel expenses can add up. Some don't like the cold weather; it snowed 4 weeks before exams and it was in the mid 40's at night during exam week. Some families don't see the extra benefits of the alumni base and the northeast. If you have never worked or traveled the big northeast cities then you just don't know.

The recruiting is tougher. The obvious kids or the HS coaches with connections to PL schools will get their kids found. But if you don't have those connections it can be tough. First of all the college coaches cannot see any of your HS games live. They can't travel that far. And film is only so good. Nothing is better than live. That means kids must go to camps at PL schools. Not many families are going to spend that money or have the time to take that shot in the dark. It's a long shot. So for those that do you go to camp and you have to have a great day because that is their only chance to see you live.

I can tell you that the PL schools have expanded their boundaries with scholies. Every school but Fordham has been to our HS this year, or at least called and asked the coach if he had any kids they should see. Things are evolving.

And it's sad to say but too many parents think with the wrong ego. They get focused on playing at the highest level possible even if the kid doesn't have the talent. Who wants to go to a bigger school, sit the bench the whole time, get a crappy degree, no alumni support?  I knew a long time ago that my sons would most likely not play past college. Oldest had a shot after college as a snapper but got injured at the end at lber. We realized education would carry the boys much farther than sports. Many parents don't realize that. Lots of parents still ask us how we could send our son so far away and do we miss him? Sure it's a little tough but we believe it is worth it. Plus it's just a 8 1/2 car ride or a cheap flight. In the grand scheme of things that is nothing. I flew up twice last year just to watch practice and take him to dinner.

The PL is a special place. The schedules you play are cool; a game or two against a big D1A, some Ivy League games, great conference schedule, fun places to visit, great education, good coaches, I could go on and on. Somehow we just have to get that message out to others.


Well said . . . and good to hear from someone with first hand knowledge of the way things are today.
Lafalum

Everything above is true…..but why don't we win inside the PL! What is it that we can do better to at least match our peers?
flyfisher

I really believe over time the PL will continue to improve. Sooner or later parents and kids will start realizing that education is more important that athletics. However in the PL you can have both.

I wish I had the opportunity to attend any of the schools in the PL.in the South most just look at the State schools and are more affordable and don't look outside their own backyard. The way they appropriate taxes for schools in most southern states is they plow money in the colleges and the lower levels suffer. That is part of the reason schools like Georgia, unc, UVA, Ga Tech, NC State, Vt, Florida are good schools for very little money.

But they are not our competitors. The key will be getting kids and parents to recognize the value of an education from a PL school vs say, a Western Carolina, a Georgia Southern, a JMU, an Old Dominion, a UT Chattanooga, an Appalachian State. Convincing those kids and parents the value of a great education. Getting more kids that are attracted to William and Mary, Richmond, Furman,  Wofford. Attracting more kids in the Northeast and selling them against the Ivy League, and a Delaware, a UNH, a Maine, a Sacred Heart. No,disrespect to anyone from those schools. They all have their positives, but they're not PL. finding kids in the Midwest that can't play at the Big 10 level but appreciate the education at Oberlin, Kenyon, Dennison but want better football.

Unfortunately we have a ways to go. When I tell many people where my youngest son goes, 50% of the time I get a blank stare. Then I say Patriot League. Still get a blank stare. Then I mention Georgetown, Bucknell, and Lehigh and they all understand. What sad is the only reason most of these people have ever heard of these scoops is for their sports achievements. Georgetown for basketball, Bucknell for a basketball upset. Lehigh beat Duke a few years ago in basketball and success their past coaches have had in football as they move on. Which speaks somewhat to the benefits of athletic success but that is a subject for another day.

Another thing that makes it tough to attract more kids outside the Northeast is the PL doesn't recruit regular students much outside the Northeast. A big reason for this is breaking down cultures. I mean no disrespect to anyone but a lot of people in the South consider in crazy to spend 60k a year on undergrad. Most would save that money for grad school if they have it at all. And frankly, there is just more money in the Northeast. Prep school or even Boatding school? Almost never commie red in the South. A year ago prep school to better prepare for college football? You must be kidding. But a friend once told me, to make money you gotta get near the money and wealth in the country is still concentrated in the Northeast. That leads to some wonderful, but expensive colleges with great educations. Back to my point, most PL league schools don't even try to attract kids from other recruiting hot beds. Most people simply would not consider paying that kind of money for undergrad.

Comes down to educating kids and parents on the opportunities in the PL. maybe the grandparents won't be able to see you play as much. maybe you can't get away and take your kid to dinner during the week. I knew years ago it was the best thing for my son to get a great education and play for a team where he fits in while learning and experiencing a different culture. We have to sell more people on these benefits.

I get long winded but I see the PL as a true gem.
Bogus Megapardus

ed65 wrote:
Bogie: the answer might be:  The kids we want (those who qualify academically) have choices.  And they may choose to go to schools with winning programs.


The goal of Lafayette athletics (for the past fifteen years or so) has been to place each of the teams in its twenty-three sports "in a position to compete for a league championship at least once every four years."  That's a paraphrase from something Bruce McCutcheon once said, I believe.

If that goal is met, does it make Lafayette a school "with winning programs?"  In my mind - given the parity in the league - the answer would be a qualified "yes."

But we don't meet that goal and we really don't come close in many sports.  We've had some success in football, men's basketball, men's soccer and field hockey.  I would even say that football, men's basketball and field hockey probably meet the goal.

I don't think "winning program" means that Lafayette has to dominate the Patriot League and its OOC opponents year in and year out.  That's not the way the league is set up.  Think about the way Metropolitan College dominated America East in basketball before joining the PL.  It got boring, and they tossed it away.  Now they're getting handled by - you guessed it - Lafayette.

Also there are some terrific schools that never seems to have "winning programs" but still attract great student-athletes. Duke is never going to win a ACC football championship.  Northwestern isn't winning the Big 10 football crown again anytime soon, and they've never been in the NCAA basketball tournament.  And Vanderbilt in unlikely to win an SEC anything (outside of baseball).  How about Wake Forest or Rice - consistent winners?
bison137

Bogus Megapardus wrote:


   Think about the way Metropolitan College dominated America East in basketball before joining the PL.  It got boring, and they tossed it away.  Now they're getting handled by - you guessed it - Lafayette.




I doubt Boston U got too bored by America East basketball.   In their final nine seasons before joining the PL, Boston U won zero regular season titles, and they won only one AE tournament in their final 11 years.    Those failures are why Dennis Wolff got fired as coach.   In addition to only winning one AE tournament title in 11 years, they also only got to one other final.    Nine times out of 11, they were eliminated prior to the final.    The dominant teams in that league have been Vermont and Albany.
Lafalum

We accept mediocrity, and I think some people at the school applaud it. I see no energy at the administrative level to be better. We have great facilities, a good education to offer, and we seem at times to embrace losing. We have not hired well with a eye to long term success. The evidence is our lack of depth in our coaching ranks in many sports and our organizational skills in recruiting ( which includes coordination with other areas of the college). Up the hill and down the hill are treated more often than not as two separate institutions practically and socially.

My first change when I become president of Lafayettte is to have the AD report to me. That would make a statement.
ed65

leopard88 wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
Bogus Megapardus wrote:
    "Eighteen teams and 78 percent of Lafayette's 23 Division I sports have earned NCAA Public Recognition Awards, the third highest percentage of all NCAA Division I schools topping the Academic Progress Rate (APR). Dartmouth placed 93 percent and Northwestern 79 percent."

I read flyfisher's comment (above) and I pull out the remainder of my hair.  Lafayette not only is the NESCAC on steroids, but it's an incredibly good DI school in its own right.  This is not some make-weight DI wannabe that moved up just to try to get the publicity associated with a potential spot in the NCAA basketball tournament.

Just look at those numbers - why is it that high school college counselors and high school coaches don't get together and insist - really demand - that their top students apply to Lafayette?  What more can a college possibly do to present itself as one of the very best options in the U.S. for a serious student-athlete?  Lafayette ought to be the first word out of their mouths.  SMH.



EDIT -
    "There are 25 Patriot League teams among the 129 nationally which have received a Public Recognition Award for academic success in each of the 10 years of the program. Lafayette leads the way with six teams in that group, followed by Bucknell with five, Lehigh and Holy Cross at four, Colgate totaling three, Loyola with two and Boston University with one."

Consider that for a moment.  One-fifth of the academic success awards across the nation went to PL teams - one fifth of all Division I schools, with Lafayette leading the way.

Suck that one up, Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, etc.

That's just incredible.


I believe the Patriot League is the best deal going. I preach it everywhere I go. The PL has the total package. Strong academics, competitive it's, beautiful campus(s), coaches that care, strong alumni support while in school and after. Lots of positives. Not everyone in the south is going to consider the PL for a variety of reasons. Some kids and parents don't want here kids that far away. Plus travel expenses can add up. Some don't like the cold weather; it snowed 4 weeks before exams and it was in the mid 40's at night during exam week. Some families don't see the extra benefits of the alumni base and the northeast. If you have never worked or traveled the big northeast cities then you just don't know.

The recruiting is tougher. The obvious kids or the HS coaches with connections to PL schools will get their kids found. But if you don't have those connections it can be tough. First of all the college coaches cannot see any of your HS games live. They can't travel that far. And film is only so good. Nothing is better than live. That means kids must go to camps at PL schools. Not many families are going to spend that money or have the time to take that shot in the dark. It's a long shot. So for those that do you go to camp and you have to have a great day because that is their only chance to see you live.

I can tell you that the PL schools have expanded their boundaries with scholies. Every school but Fordham has been to our HS this year, or at least called and asked the coach if he had any kids they should see. Things are evolving.

And it's sad to say but too many parents think with the wrong ego. They get focused on playing at the highest level possible even if the kid doesn't have the talent. Who wants to go to a bigger school, sit the bench the whole time, get a crappy degree, no alumni support?  I knew a long time ago that my sons would most likely not play past college. Oldest had a shot after college as a snapper but got injured at the end at lber. We realized education would carry the boys much farther than sports. Many parents don't realize that. Lots of parents still ask us how we could send our son so far away and do we miss him? Sure it's a little tough but we believe it is worth it. Plus it's just a 8 1/2 car ride or a cheap flight. In the grand scheme of things that is nothing. I flew up twice last year just to watch practice and take him to dinner.

The PL is a special place. The schedules you play are cool; a game or two against a big D1A, some Ivy League games, great conference schedule, fun places to visit, great education, good coaches, I could go on and on. Somehow we just have to get that message out to others.


Well said . . . and good to hear from someone with first hand knowledge of the way things are today.


fly: This is well done.  I suggest you send it to President Byerly and the Executive Committee of the Board.
flyfisher

^^^ I dont plan on bothering those people. They probably dont want to hear from me and they have their plan and will execute it. I am very grateful my son is at Lafayette and thankful he gets an experience i never had. It has crossed my mind to write to them and thank them while also asking what the vision is for the College, athletics, as well as a few other areas.
ed65

flyfisher wrote:
^^^ I dont plan on bothering those people. They probably dont want to hear from me and they have their plan and will execute it. I am very grateful my son is at Lafayette and thankful he gets an experience i never had. It has crossed my mind to write to them and thank them while also asking what the vision is for the College, athletics, as well as a few other areas.


I would encourage you to write the "vsion" letter!
BPard

Haven't you heard?!

http://liveconnected.lafayette.edu/
flyfisher

ed65 wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
^^^ I dont plan on bothering those people. They probably dont want to hear from me and they have their plan and will execute it. I am very grateful my son is at Lafayette and thankful he gets an experience i never had. It has crossed my mind to write to them and thank them while also asking what the vision is for the College, athletics, as well as a few other areas.


I would encourage you to write the "vsion" letter!


Guys, i love the College, and i did not even attend. however I am not looking to make waves. Its easy to see some of the issues the College faces, not so easy to have solutions. Something that does surprise me is how many alumni they have upset and how much money they have either discarded or not courted or simply become disconnected.

I may write a very polite letter thanking them for the opportunity and asking what the vision for the College is while also praising what the College could be. The College has some great attributes in place and a solid foundation in many areas. I would love to see the College continue to improve and reach even higher levels

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