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carney2

Recruiting News???

Anything on recruiting?  IMO, this is THE critical year for this program.
Lafalum

Couldn't agree more. We are now several year's deep in scholarships and we should be signing recruits now. Most classes are near done we should be done in the next month IF we are doing things right!
Lehigh is reporting 3 verbals this week!  Where are we???
carney2

Bison137 reports the 3 verbals for Lehigh on the Squawk Board.

http://www.voy.com/82659/9902.html
RePard

We have an opportunity at a pretty good, C/PF if the reports of him visiting were true, Josh Sparks. Supposedly finishes his last visit this weekend and has already been to HC and did not commit which is a plus. Lehigh should be done now, Bucknell has 2 PF's signed unless one is a center also but they are probably in need of another guard. Based on what I saw when we played them last year they need another point. HC may have gotten a center/PF already so HC could have withdrawn their offer to Sparks and they signed a very highly rated SG. Colgate is all over the map and I'd hate to lose Sparks to that school.
Xboreturns

No doubt about it, Sparks will be an impact player. The coaching staff has worked hard to recruit him. I was worried that he would commit at HC last weekend but saw they signed another 6'8" kid which I think improves our chances.

If we can sign Sparks and the Canadian PG who was here two weeks ago, it will be a successful recruiting year.
bison137

Holy Cross having signed a PF helps you to a point.    However they graduate five seniors this year - one of whom is 6'11" and one who is 6'9" - so they will almost certainly be looking for one more post player.   Also, Meister, another post player, is a junior.    The other three they graduate are a PG, a 2G, and a SF.   I assume one of the scholarships will go for a PG since they will have only one returning PG next year.

HC reportedly has three players in for officials this weekend - Eric Obeysekere, Chris Matagrano, Blake Jolivette - with the first two both being post players as well.

As for Bucknell, the two verbals so far are a PF and a 6'9" PF/C.    BU has four scholarships available this year and one of those two will definitely go to another PG.    The most likely position for the fourth one is a wing who can shoot from the outside.  (Note: there is an outside chance that BU could have a 5th scholarship but I think that is not likely.)
KenZ

Xboreturns wrote:
If we can sign Sparks and the Canadian PG who was here two weeks ago, it will be a successful recruiting year.


is Bucknell also involved with this Canadian pg?
Xboreturns

Yes, I believe he was there last weekend.  Also is scheduled to visit Colgate.
BillS

David Boyce 6'0 Pg St Thomas More Hamilton,On
TheRock90

Bill, are you saying he gave a verbal to us?
carney2

Josh Sparks - 6'9" C
Savannah Christian Prep - Savannah, GA
Colleges of interest:  Colgate, Holy Cross, Jacksonville, Lafayette

Did not find much about Boyce.  Is this because he's a Canadian, or does it reflect his status as a "prospect?"  He shows on a few Ivy "long lists" (as opposed to short lists) of potential recruits:  Columbia, Cornell, Harvard
RePard

Sparks plays for a small school but is a very mobile post. I don't know if he can play with his back to the basket. He played well this summer. I heard he may have made a commitment not to announce until after his last visit. I didn't realize HC had 5 scholarships so the Bucknell poster is probably right about HC taking a big man but probably a PF. I thought they already had Meister plus a soph, plus another soph that played the 5. I've heard that we don't have a good read on Boyce but that Sparks had a good visit. Stab me if he picks Colgate.
bison137

RePard wrote:
I didn't realize HC had 5 scholarships so the Bucknell poster is probably right about HC taking a big man but probably a PF. I thought they already had Meister plus a soph, plus another soph that played the 5.



Yes, HC does have two soph post players - PF/C Andrew Keister, who came in with Meister but took an injury redshirt, and PF Josh Jones.   Keister has had several injuries, including a stress fracture problem related to cancer treatment he had early in his teenage years, so he is a bit of a question mark at this point - although he showed promise as a freshman.    Jones was very much a project when he arrived in Worcester and rarely got off the bench last year.

They have a commitment from 6'8" Phil Beans, a PF/C from Ohio, and also from a good wing, Jordan Stevens.    With three more left, I can't imagine them not bringing in another big man.    Remember that, unlike LC and Bucknell, HC gives out 13 scholarships so they have another spot to play with.
carney2

RePard wrote:
Sparks plays for a small school but is a very mobile post. I don't know if he can play with his back to the basket. He played well this summer. I heard he may have made a commitment not to announce until after his last visit. I didn't realize HC had 5 scholarships so the Bucknell poster is probably right about HC taking a big man but probably a PF. I thought they already had Meister plus a soph, plus another soph that played the 5. I've heard that we don't have a good read on Boyce but that Sparks had a good visit. Stab me if he picks Colgate.


Stab HIM if he picks Colgate.  Who, in his right mind, would choose to play 4 years worth of home games in an empty barn?
RePard

Another player that I was told we had interest in signed at VMI. A PG named Joe Carr. I don't know much about him and if we even offered or he visited. His name was mentioned to me as someone we liked.
Long Time Fan

The tone of this thread makes me believe that, scholarships or not, Lafayette is still at the bottom of the Patriot League pecking order for men's basketball recruits.
Xboreturns

Unconfirmed report that Boyce has verbaled to Bucknell. Makes you wonder if facilities is an issue in our battles with them.

Boyce would have come in here as the PG with AB's departure.  He'll have to split time at BU with Shazier for two years.
bison137

Xboreturns wrote:
Unconfirmed report that Boyce has verbaled to Bucknell. Makes you wonder if facilities is an issue in our battles with them.

Boyce would have come in here as the PG with AB's departure.  He'll have to split time at BU with Shazier for two years.



Hoopscoop is reporting today that a different Canadian PG - Bryson Johnson - committed to Bucknell.    I suppose it's possible that BU got two Canadian PG's in the span of 36 hours but it seems rather unlikely, particularly if they are both scholarship-worthy players (and Johnson definitely is).

Is it possible that there is some confusion about which Canadian PG verbaled to BU?
carney2

I read somewhere (probably in this thread since I have no independent sources) that Sparks was making his final visit (Lafayette) this past weekend, but that he had already made his decision.  Any word?

Piggybacking on an earlier comment, this really does not look good.
Xboreturns

I don't know if its Boyce or Johnson. Bill S threw out the name Boyce, you chipped in Johnson. I do know its the same player that visited here 9/13 and visited BU on 9/20.

There were other recruits on campus this past weekend. If you were at the football game you probably saw one of them walking around with the basketball team.
bison137

Xboreturns wrote:
I don't know if its Boyce or Johnson. Bill S threw out the name Boyce, you chipped in Johnson. I do know its the same player that visited here 9/13 and visited BU on 9/20.

There were other recruits on campus this past weekend. If you were at the football game you probably saw one of them walking around with the basketball team.




Thanks.    After hearing this, I think it's quite likely that the PG who committed to BU is Johnson.   Boyce may still be on your radar screen.
RePard

carney2 wrote:
I read somewhere (probably in this thread since I have no independent sources) that Sparks was making his final visit (Lafayette) this past weekend, but that he had already made his decision.  Any word?

Piggybacking on an earlier comment, this really does not look good.


You may have inferred that from my post. We were not Sparks final visit, I think he went to HC first and Jacksonville last with LC and Colgate in between. What I heard was we liked him a lot and that he was committed to making all of his visits before verbaling unlike many players who have a good visit, verbal, and cancel any remaining visits. I had hoped that with his final visit now over, we might get some good news. On Boyce I was only told he was more difficult to read in terms of where we were on his list. I don't really know if he was our top target at the point either. There are so many restricted offers now out that even visits with offers does not mean that your offer is not contingent on other offers being turned down. HC just lost a PG to Vermont because because his offer was contingent on another PG giving an answer first. Now HC has recontacted a couple of PG's in case they lose their first choice who is not on our list but has been to American.
Xboreturns probably has more consistent contact with sources in our program than I do and may know more or something different but we need to get some names on the board.
bison137

RePard wrote:
On Boyce I was only told he was more difficult to read in terms of where we were on his list. I don't really know if he was our top target at the point either. There are so many restricted offers now out that even visits with offers does not mean that your offer is not contingent on other offers being turned down. HC just lost a PG to Vermont because because his offer was contingent on another PG giving an answer first. Now HC has recontacted a couple of PG's in case they lose their first choice who is not on our list but has been to American.



Are you talking about Blake Jolivette as the HC PG?
Andy

Lehigh now with four verbals, the latest being a 6'10" C.  All four are rated two stars by scout.com.  HC with three verbals, two rated two stars. Bucknell four verbals, two rated two stars.

Are we having a disastrous recruiting year?  Was hoping to build on last year's promising group.

Sparks to Jacksonville.
Lafalum

I see nothing to be optimistic about. Given the success  our other scholarship sports are having at recruting ( women's basketball, soccer, and field hockey) and given the loss of asst coaches, who do most of the scouting and recruiting, do we have a problem?
carney2

When scholarships were announced I thought that this would be the year that Fran might kick a butt or two.  Looks like we'll be shoveling s&%t for some time to come.  What do we need to kick this into gear?  I'm not talking recruits.  A new facility?  Some assistants who are recruiters and not just hoops wonks?  If we've moved at all from the days without scholarships, it is barely perceptible.
seenalot

At the risk of having a few rocks tossed in my direction - is Fran (or more specifically his style of play, and (in)ability to adapt) part of the problem?   I also had hopes with the signings of Mower and Willen, but failing a rabbit coming out of the hat, this year is looking like a bust.  Are kids put off, or is it just bad luck, poor targeting of recruits?

In some respects its like watching Tavani and Hef - without their success, fewer tools to work with, and none of Hef's ability to mold kids into "the system".
Lafalum

I am one of Fran's biggest supporters but I have had it with the whinning about facilities and the  AI. Others are getting it done and I see NO ENTHUSIASM.  I hate long term contracts and not only is he the highest paid employee at the college, outside of the president, but for all practical purposes has tenure. (thks arthur)
He is a great on the floor coach, but I don't see it on the recruiting trail...a job perhaps more suited for a younger healthier  man.
Franks Tanks

Lafalum wrote:
I am one of Fran's biggest supporters but I have had it with the whinning about facilities and the  AI. Others are getting it done and I see NO ENTHUSIASM.  I hate long term contracts and not only is he the highest paid employee at the college, outside of the president, but for all practical purposes has tenure. (thks arthur)
He is a great on the floor coach, but I don't see it on the recruiting trail...a job perhaps more suited for a younger healthier  man.


They always say coaches really Peter out on the recruiting trail.  They can usually still coach with the best of them, but flame out with the inability to tenaciously recruit and get the guys they need.  This is what happened to Bill Russo I believe.

How much does Fran make and how much does Frank make (estimation)--just wondering???
Lafalum

Based on Form 880 which is a publiclly filed document by the college Fran makes over 200,000 dollars. As a guesstimate and based on rumour Frank is at about 135,000 and has the school owned house and use of a car. Other perks are free tuition for both ( I believe Fran's kids have not been old enough to take advantage.... Frank's have)
TheTruth

Considering our record of always reporting our recruits late, I think we should all relax a bit.  Heck I haven't received my invitation to the Hall of Fame Dinner that is scheduled for next month.  Why should they release information on a class that does not matriculate for another 10 months?  

Fran brought in a good group of kids in this year's class and I think the class of 2013 will be at least equally talented.  Also the team just started practicing.
Long Time Fan

Lafalum wrote:
I am one of Fran's biggest supporters but I have had it with the whinning about facilities and the  AI. Others are getting it done and I see NO ENTHUSIASM.  I hate long term contracts and not only is he the highest paid employee at the college, outside of the president, but for all practical purposes has tenure. (thks arthur)
He is a great on the floor coach, but I don't see it on the recruiting trail...a job perhaps more suited for a younger healthier  man.


I'm afraid I must agree with Lafalum entirely.  We're getting killed in the recruiting wars this year.  There has to be more to it than the facilities and the the AI.
Franks Tanks

Lafalum wrote:
Based on Form 880 which is a publiclly filed document by the college Fran makes over 200,000 dollars. As a guesstimate and based on rumour Frank is at about 135,000 and has the school owned house and use of a car. Other perks are free tuition for both ( I believe Fran's kids have not been old enough to take advantage.... Frank's have)


Thanks--i've never quite got a read on what Frankie is making.  Years ago Heff let it slip that we was making about 75.  That was 7 years and 3 PL championships ago (plus he is now the OC) so I would hope he is making right around 100k as he certainly deserves it.  I am sure Loose is being paid pretty good as well.  Assistants in all other sports make terrible salaries from what I gather.
ericatbucknell

TheTruth wrote:
Considering our record of always reporting our recruits late, I think we should all relax a bit.  Heck I haven't received my invitation to the Hall of Fame Dinner that is scheduled for next month.  Why should they release information on a class that does not matriculate for another 10 months?  

Fran brought in a good group of kids in this year's class and I think the class of 2013 will be at least equally talented.  Also the team just started practicing.


neither lafayette nor any other school can release information on commitments until they sign national letters of intent in november, so this has nothing to do with lafayette being slow.

independent online sources have confirmed americans four commitments in addition to armys five, bucknells four, colgates one, hcs three, lafayettes one, lehighs four and navys three. given that even armys guys are getting press (theyre usually the most difficult to track down), you can be fairly certain that lafayette doesnt have a handful of mystery commitments at this point. it just doesnt work that way in the internet age.

---

on the question of lafayette recruiting this year, i would say that it is a combination of ohanlon having a harder sell (given the programs recent performance), not having a great recruiter on staff (unlike lehigh) and a bit of bad luck. as an analogy, lafayette might bat 0.200 instead of bucknells 0.300. and when youre a 0.200 hitter, its pretty easy to go 1-15 on priority fall recruits (with plan 'b' guys committing without written scholarship offers while plan 'a' guys are deciding). of course, its also easy to go 4-10 and have a complete class in september. it happens.
seenalot

Thats part of the quid pro quo of getting scholarships - the magnifying glass of "success" gets sharper.   Lets see how it plays out but the leading indicators arent looking good - with one signing, who by most accounts is a "project" - and not a ton of other noise on the subject.
TheTruth

Thanks eric for the clarification.  I'll wait until November then to worry about what recruits we have or don't have.
Kiltedpard

Fran brought in a good group of kids in this year's class and I think the class of 2013 will be at least equally talented.  Also the team just started practicing.[/quote]


...and has anyone heard/seen anything reported from practice? The press release this AM has AB a pre season 1st teamer and us picked to finish last - pathetic!
Andy

Oh, its definitely time to worry.  Kids have turned down our offers left and right for PL rivals.  Time to make some calls to contacts in Sweden.
Lafalum

Totally agree with ericatbucknell, in this age you  can't hide behind the novenber signing date. We are not in the mix, unlike women's bball, soccer and field hockey who already have their classes lined up for next year!! This is very concerning
carney2

Recruiting is obviously not going well.  Ericatbucnell says that Fran does "not having a great recruiter on staff (unlike lehigh)."  I have no knowledge in this area.  Any of you insiders care to comment?

If there truly is not a "great recruiter" on the staff, why not?  What are the objectives in hiring assistants if not recruiting?  If Fran's burned out he needs 2-3 guys to get out and beat some doors.
RePard

I don't know if anyone really has a "great recruiter" in the PL. We have defintitely had a rough early recruiting season but it's the same pitch that landed 2 very good players last year. Honestly, we had a lot less pressure on us before scholarships because we had an excuse to not win and when we did win we felt we did it with great coaching (that was the salary lever). Don't give up on this year yet, we are looking at some other options including preps and maybe we go for the Spring signing but so far we have not gotten anyone that another league school really wanted.
Lafalum

What's obvious is the other PL schools are better men's basketball recruiters than we are...for what ever reason!! This recruiting season stunk!!
Andy

[quote="RePard]We have defintitely had a rough early recruiting season.....so far we have not gotten anyone that another league school really wanted.[/quote]

Exactly.  Thanks, repard.   We hold out hope, but was really looking to build on last year's momentum...i think we all were expecting more with scholarships.
The Maroon

From the tone of this thread we are basically going to have wait until the November signing diate and try to pluck a few diamonds in the rough from the disappointed guys who didn't get offered scholarships...

Wait...Didn't we do this when we DIDN'T have scholarships?
RePard

The Maroon wrote:
From the tone of this thread we are basically going to have wait until the November signing diate and try to pluck a few diamonds in the rough from the disappointed guys who didn't get offered scholarships...

Wait...Didn't we do this when we DIDN'T have scholarships?


That's an overly pessimistic view. You can pick up very high quality recruits in the late period. You just don't want to to get all of them late. Would you be disappointed if some player getting a lot of higher level attention gets skunked in November and is looking for a great school with an open scholarship and playing time? The preps are another good late source and Fran is a veteran of the international scene as well. We also don't know if there is someone off our radar that the staff has on ice.

And yes, this recruiting season, so far, is reminiscent of the pre-schollie days.
The Maroon

RePard wrote:
The Maroon wrote:
From the tone of this thread we are basically going to have wait until the November signing diate and try to pluck a few diamonds in the rough from the disappointed guys who didn't get offered scholarships...

Wait...Didn't we do this when we DIDN'T have scholarships?


That's an overly pessimistic view. You can pick up very high quality recruits in the late period. You just don't want to to get all of them late. Would you be disappointed if some player getting a lot of higher level attention gets skunked in November and is looking for a great school with an open scholarship and playing time? The preps are another good late source and Fran is a veteran of the international scene as well. We also don't know if there is someone off our radar that the staff has on ice.

And yes, this recruiting season, so far, is reminiscent of the pre-schollie days.


Oh I'd love to land a guy who was hoping for a Big-10 scholarship, got "skunked" and then rethought the whole thing and came to Easton--and you are right, that kinda thing is possible. But I really thought the days of hoping for someone to fall through the cracks were over.

If we just had ONE guy I could get midly excited about at this point I'd feel a lot better.

I'm at least happy that all of last years recruits are back on campus---I was tired of losing kids in the off-season. I'm disappointed that Benbow is tipping the scales at 171 (Deandre Morrow weighs more) and Wheeler at 183---I was hoping for more bulk out of them, but whatever.
Lafalum

carney2 wrote:
Recruiting is obviously not going well.  Ericatbucnell says that Fran does "not having a great recruiter on staff (unlike lehigh)."  I have no knowledge in this area.  Any of you insiders care to comment?

If there truly is not a "great recruiter" on the staff, why not?  What are the objectives in hiring assistants if not recruiting?  If Fran's burned out he needs 2-3 guys to get out and beat some doors.


Here's the thing....look at the assistants. None has Div 1 experience as a coach and only one played Div 1 and he was a transfer. Recruiting at the D 3 level is entirely different. None of these guys have high school contact with coaches who produce D 1 material. Maybe they will develop those contacts but that is years away. Part of hiring an asst coach are those contacts he may bring with him as a player or as an asst from somewhere else. We may have a learning curve going here for these guys for several seasons.
RePard

Believe it or not there are leagues out there below the Big Ten and still above us. And it's not a case of a guys with big time offers changing their minds and turning down verbals- it's players with bigger time aspirations opting for prep years or seniors with some interest from a better program waiting and then realizing there will be no offer. I don't blame you for feeling anxious at this point but don't jump the staff until at least the public period in November if you can't wait for late period in April.
Lafalum

We may indeed still get our "hidden jewel", the fact remains the other PL schools are done and we are not!!
The Maroon

RePard wrote:
Believe it or not there are leagues out there below the Big Ten and still above us. And it's not a case of a guys with big time offers changing their minds and turning down verbals- it's players with bigger time aspirations opting for prep years or seniors with some interest from a better program waiting and then realizing there will be no offer. I don't blame you for feeling anxious at this point but don't jump the staff until at least the public period in November if you can't wait for late period in April.


I think we are more on the same page than you may realize (the Big Ten example was just that) ---it's just hard to figure out what's going on this season.
KenZ

this thread is on such a downer.  here's info on a guy you are pursuing, maybe this can lift your spirits a bit:

http://cornellbasketball.blogspot.com/

TexasHoops.com also reports that Josef Brown, a 6’9” post player from Wheatley High School in Houston has recruitment interest from Cornell, Lafayette and Dartmouth. He also holds a scholarship offer from Furman (coached by Cornell alum, Jeff Jackson) and had some recruitment involvement from Princeton and Wichita State. He visited Furman the weekend of September 19-21.

He told TexasHoops.com about his visit to Furman, "It went alright - Furman is a nice school. I enjoyed getting to meet the guys and they were all down to earth. I played with the team and I thought I fit in perfectly." Brown also visited Cornell on October 17-19 and plans on visiting Dartmouth and Lafayette.

Brown is hopeful that once the early signing period arrives he'll commit to a school. "Academics come first and foremost and I want a school that has a good department for my major," he said. "I'm also looking for a team that can compete and at least get to the NCAA Tournament."

As a junior, Brown averaged 8.5 points, 11.5 rebounds and 4.7 blocks per game for Wheatley. TexasHoops.com ranks him the No. 64 prospect in Texas for the Class of 2009.


TexasHoops.com provides the following scouting report on Brown:
Brown is a long and solid built paint player who has the chance to surprise people as he played sparingly on the spring and summer circuit. He runs the floor very well, is a good rebounder and challenges and alters shots in the paint. He goes to the offensive boards strong, gets put backs and has a soft touch in the paint. He will need to add some more weight and strength and could be a sleeper if he will get more aggressive.
carney2

KenZ wrote:
this thread is on such a downer.  here's info on a guy you are pursuing, maybe this can lift your spirits a bit:

http://cornellbasketball.blogspot.com/


Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, we have an attempt to lift our spirits from this guy.  Rock bottom has a hole in it.
Refrider

I know there are three University of Arizona recruits up for grabs!
bison137

carney2 wrote:
KenZ wrote:
this thread is on such a downer.  here's info on a guy you are pursuing, maybe this can lift your spirits a bit:

http://cornellbasketball.blogspot.com/


Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, we have an attempt to lift our spirits from this guy.  Rock bottom has a hole in it.



It could have been worse.    Instead of an article about a recruit with interest from Lafayette, Cornell, Dartmouth, and Furman, KenZ might have come up with a recruit choosing between Muhlenberg, DeSales, and Lafayette.    Smile
Xboreturns

For those of you who have given up on this year's recruiting, I suggest you visit the Holy Cross site and review the comments made by Coach Willard at their annual basketball forum. In particular, his comments that they have lost two recruits because of their facilities and that he is now holding two scholarships until the spring signing period.

As far as facilities go, only Colgate is worse than Kirby and if Holy Cross is having trouble getting commitments because of their facility, how can you expect Coach O to be any more successful? Just read the comments on our own board about how much impact the new football facility has had on their recruiting.

Sure we'd all like to see the recruiting wrapped up by the start of the November signing period and I'm sure the coaches had that goal also. But sometimes things don't work out the way you hope or plan. Scholarships do not guarantee you will get the players you want because everyone else has scholarships also.

Clearly, the fact that Coach Willard is going to wait until the spring signing period indicates he believes that their are still good players who will be available. Maybe Coach O feels the same way, maybe he wants to see how well this year's seven freshman perform before committing more scholarships. Its just another of life's risk/reward scenarios. Do you sign three guys early and then discover their's an impact player available after the early signing period but you're out of scholarships?  

Personally, I think Coach O is a much better judge of basketball talent than anyone who posts on this board.
carney2

I need to be brought up to speed on this whole basketball scholarship thing.  I am going to ask some questions.  Hopefully, someone with knowledge will answer them one by one.

We have 12 basketball scholarships in total, right?

Does it break down to a firm 3 per year, or can Fran give 2 one year and 4 the next, or divvy them up any way he likes?

If a scholarship player leaves school - let's say he's a junior - is his scholarship now available to an incoming freshman?

A guy like Visockas gets injured and misses a year.  He still has a year of eligibility remaining.  Can the scholarship be stretched out to cover that 5th year?

Does the coach have the authority to revoke the scholarship of a kid who is in school and in good academic standing?

Are the scholarships severable?  For instance, can Fran award a half scholarship each to two different players and still be judged to have used only one of his scholarships?

Does "need based" financial aid fit into this in any way?  In other words, could Bill Gates' kid get a free ride for hoops if he was 6'11" and could dunk with either hand?

I am assuming that a scholarship covers tuition, room, board and books.  Anything else?

How much of all of this is governed by the Patriot League, and how much by the College?
Lafalum

Ok here goes.
We have 12 men's basketball scholarships (one less than the NCAA permits)
The college has insisted that is 3 per year.
If he loses the player the college will NOT give the scholarship back to Fran. ( I understand that has already happened)
Don't know about the fifth year
According to the NCAA the scholarship cannot be revoked unless the player quits the team. In that case the player's scholarship goes away.
According the NCAA basketball and football are "counter sports" a scholarship counts as one or none. So 13 is the max,the college allows 12.
Soccer and Field Hockey are "non counter sports" and partials scholarships are allowed.

If the player was a recruited player and he recieves aid related to his basketball skills he has athletic aid and it counts. If you get a basketball scholarship need is not a factor.

The NCAA does not allow payment for travel to and from home,entertainment, or anything else, that includes earnings from the college or an affilated alumni for summer jobs.
The patriot league follows the NCAA guidelines and only states that football players may not get football scholarships
Xboreturns

My understanding is that Visockas intends to play this year. His target date is 1/1/09. He's been working out in the weight room. Lets hope for the best.
carney2

Xboreturns wrote:
My understanding is that Visockas intends to play this year. His target date is 1/1/09. He's been working out in the weight room. Lets hope for the best.


Visockas was just an example of a guy who, for whatever reason, needs 5 years to use his 4 years of eligibility.  Good news, though.
bison137

Lafalum wrote:
Ok here goes.
We have 12 men's basketball scholarships (one less than the NCAA permits)
The college has insisted that is 3 per year.
If he loses the player the college will NOT give the scholarship back to Fran. ( I understand that has already happened)
Don't know about the fifth year
According to the NCAA the scholarship cannot be revoked unless the player quits the team. In that case the player's scholarship goes away.
According the NCAA basketball and football are "counter sports" a scholarship counts as one or none. So 13 is the max,the college allows 12.
Soccer and Field Hockey are "non counter sports" and partials scholarships are allowed.

If the player was a recruited player and he recieves aid related to his basketball skills he has athletic aid and it counts. If you get a basketball scholarship need is not a factor.

The NCAA does not allow payment for travel to and from home,entertainment, or anything else, that includes earnings from the college or an affilated alumni for summer jobs.
The patriot league follows the NCAA guidelines and only states that football players may not get football scholarships



A few comments:

1.   LC, at its discretion, could give an injured player a 5th year by allowing a 13th one-year scholarship.   However, the NCAA limit of 13 still applies, so if there is a chance of a player staying for a 5th year, a scholarship must be held for him.

2.   Under NCAA rules, all scholarships are one-year deals that do not have to be renewed under normal circumstances, although they can't be yanked mid-year except for cause.    However, I think it would be rare for any PL school to not renew a scholarship - unless the player had a real attitude problem.

3.   If a basketball player is recruited and receives only need-based aid, he is still a "counter" and goes against your limit of 13.

4.   Most of the scholarship rules are governed by the NCAA, but there are a few PL rules that might come into play.   Examples - required academic load to be eligible, two-year sit-out requirement for transfers within the league, mandatory reporting of data, no football allowed for scholarship hoops players, etc.


- - - -


Also a question.  Based on published reports, LC gave out at least four hoops scholarships this year (Willen, Mower, Pelham, Petkovich).    Does that mean that some private donor contributed the fourth one, or that LC allowed a waiver to the policy described in the previous post, or that one of the players stretched the truth?
Lafalum

My last conversation was there was a donor they were looking for, but who knows maybe sanity prevailed
Andy

Xboreturns wrote:
For those of you who have given up on this year's recruiting, I suggest you visit the Holy Cross site and review the comments made by Coach Willard at their annual basketball forum. In particular, his comments that they have lost two recruits because of their facilities and that he is now holding two scholarships until the spring signing period.

As far as facilities go, only Colgate is worse than Kirby and if Holy Cross is having trouble getting commitments because of their facility, how can you expect Coach O to be any more successful? Just read the comments on our own board about how much impact the new football facility has had on their recruiting.

Sure we'd all like to see the recruiting wrapped up by the start of the November signing period and I'm sure the coaches had that goal also. But sometimes things don't work out the way you hope or plan. Scholarships do not guarantee you will get the players you want because everyone else has scholarships also.

Clearly, the fact that Coach Willard is going to wait until the spring signing period indicates he believes that their are still good players who will be available. Maybe Coach O feels the same way, maybe he wants to see how well this year's seven freshman perform before committing more scholarships. Its just another of life's risk/reward scenarios. Do you sign three guys early and then discover their's an impact player available after the early signing period but you're out of scholarships?  

Personally, I think Coach O is a much better judge of basketball talent than anyone who posts on this board.


Willard can afford to hold two scholarships untill the later signing period; he's already signed the #56 C in the country, the #50 SF in the country and the #135 PF in the country according to ESPN.
RePard

Andy wrote:
Xboreturns wrote:
For those of you who have given up on this year's recruiting, I suggest you visit the Holy Cross site and review the comments made by Coach Willard at their annual basketball forum. In particular, his comments that they have lost two recruits because of their facilities and that he is now holding two scholarships until the spring signing period.

As far as facilities go, only Colgate is worse than Kirby and if Holy Cross is having trouble getting commitments because of their facility, how can you expect Coach O to be any more successful? Just read the comments on our own board about how much impact the new football facility has had on their recruiting.

Sure we'd all like to see the recruiting wrapped up by the start of the November signing period and I'm sure the coaches had that goal also. But sometimes things don't work out the way you hope or plan. Scholarships do not guarantee you will get the players you want because everyone else has scholarships also.

Clearly, the fact that Coach Willard is going to wait until the spring signing period indicates he believes that their are still good players who will be available. Maybe Coach O feels the same way, maybe he wants to see how well this year's seven freshman perform before committing more scholarships. Its just another of life's risk/reward scenarios. Do you sign three guys early and then discover their's an impact player available after the early signing period but you're out of scholarships?  

Personally, I think Coach O is a much better judge of basketball talent than anyone who posts on this board.


Willard can afford to hold two scholarships untill the later signing period; he's already signed the #56 C in the country, the #50 SF in the country and the #135 PF in the country according to ESPN.


I'm afraid you are correct. From someone supposedly in the know he may have already lined up his PG as well and he's another very good prospect that we don't seem to have gotten to early enough.
Lafalum

As I said in my earlier post this is way beyond facilities or AI, this is an organizaional and recruitment failure!!!

******
Lehigh board is reporting they signed 6' 10" 240 lbs Kevin McCarthey. He also considered Holy Cross,Lafayette, Princeton and Cornell. You can't tell me something is not wrong here!!!
Andy

First day of the early signing period is tomorrow the 12th.  Hoping for a surprise.
carney2

Andy wrote:
First day of the early signing period is tomorrow the 12th.  Hoping for a surprise.


Well?!?!???
KenZ

commitment from Tony Johnson, 5-11 pg from California
ericatbucknell

KenZ wrote:
commitment from Tony Johnson, 5-11 pg from California


definitely an under-the-radar get, but here is a link to the article on his commitment and stats from last year:

http://folsomtelegraph.com/detail/99631.html
http://www.maxpreps.com/californi...b92dac17&urpath=,local,player
The Maroon

Well all right...

We're graduating a PG, we signed a PG. He appears to be a legit scholarship player.

I don't think the program is in quite as desperate straights as this thread makes it out to be.
Lafalum

We still need the big athletic guy to be competitive and we are not getting our first picks. This is a long way from contending for the PL championship. In the article Tony Johnson said a factor in his choice was the opportunity for playing time early. That may be our biggest selling point.
carney2

The Maroon wrote:
Well all right...

We're graduating a PG, we signed a PG. He appears to be a legit scholarship player.

I don't think the program is in quite as desperate straights as this thread makes it out to be.


Don't get carried away.  Even if Johnson is a player (Is he?), one 5'11" point guard more or less isn't going to make or break the program.  All the signs still say that the recruiting is not going well.
The Maroon

carney2 wrote:
The Maroon wrote:
Well all right...

We're graduating a PG, we signed a PG. He appears to be a legit scholarship player.

I don't think the program is in quite as desperate straights as this thread makes it out to be.


Don't get carried away.  Even if Johnson is a player (Is he?), one 5'11" point guard more or less isn't going to make or break the program.  All the signs still say that the recruiting is not going well.


I am of the minority opinion that both the class of 2012 AND class of 2011 are good classes. Maybe this won't be a super year recruiting wise, but this kid is solid, we get one more and I think we'll be just fine.
Lafalum

You're kidding yourself if you think we can win the PL without a large body in the middle and other good athletic forwards. I don't see that bodiy yet on the squad or in the pipeline. A 5 11 guard is nice but its not the difference maker
The Maroon

We have good athletic forwards and if we get enough of them we can win the league without a true center.

Center is the hardest position to land, point guard is probably the second. Don't discount the importance of us landing a good pg.

Let's just see how the season unfolds. I think we're as good as last year, only now that's OK because it's a YOUNG team.
Kiltedpard

Let's just see how the season unfolds. I think we're as good as last year, only now that's OK because it's a YOUNG team.[/quote]

Agreed! We brought 6 kids in this year and graduate one. My guess is Fran is going to be picky on what we get out of this class. The bench is only so long. I think another Benbow/Willen type forward would be great. We have 3 center types and the best we will ever do is someone slightly better than a project, unless we get lucky. Look at the rest of the league...I'm not seeing any Hansboroughs there!
seenalot

I think we will get some decent production from Mintz.   Would like to see Fran start him, Willen, Benbow, Brown and Kari and see where we get - with Gruner and some of the frosh grabbing some mins.  

Another Willen would be a nice get, but you are correct we only lose 1 Sr.
The Maroon

seenalot wrote:
I think we will get some decent production from Mintz.   Would like to see Fran start him, Willen, Benbow, Brown and Kari and see where we get - with Gruner and some of the frosh grabbing some mins.  

Another Willen would be a nice get, but you are correct we only lose 1 Sr.


See...NOW we're fricking talking...This optimism..it's CONTAGIOUS!

I think we'll fare pretty well tomorrow. Lehigh seems to have a hell of a lot of mojo this week in their athletic department...We just gotta keep grinding and hope the putts start dropping on the back 9.
Kiltedpard

http://goleopards.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/120508aae.html


Wow, you guys are slipping! Geise flew under your radar!  Wink
TheRock90

No we are not. Check the recruiting thread and Bill S' post of 9/20.
seenalot

Is it just me or does the line "Levi SAW ACTION in every game as a junior...." leave you a bit.... uninspired about this signing?   I can only hope that he turns out to be a late blooming, diamond in the rough - as with Koltun and Pelham we seem to have enough "projects".
carney2

I checked the recruiting services on these guys.  It confirms my initial "uh-oh."  Not thrilled with either, and my previous posts of "bad recruiting year" are looking to be unfortunately prophetic.

On the plus side, with Koltun, Pelham and Giese, we will have one of the tallest benches in the league next year.  We'll look awesome in warmups when uninformed fans will be saying "they look big" to each other.
The Maroon

seenalot wrote:
Is it just me or does the line "Levi SAW ACTION in every game as a junior...." leave you a bit.... uninspired about this signing?   I can only hope that he turns out to be a late blooming, diamond in the rough - as with Koltun and Pelham we seem to have enough "projects".


I am all about optimism. Half full....I believe....Yes we CAN!!...all of that shit...

stilll.....

these can't be his numbers from junior year (you'll have to do a control-find, he's...kind of down the list)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/extra/highschool/preps_bball.aspx
The Maroon

Maybe it just needs to be spelled out in plain english:

We have a 6'9 recruit who averaged under 3 PPG last season. While it looks like he's played against a high level of competition, I still don't see any way in the world to spin this as a positive.

Maybe he lights it up for his AAU team, but this one is mind-boggling. If a year from now Fran has him in his office and is telling him he doesn't see him playing on this level than Fran should be on the hook.



The Maroon wrote:
seenalot wrote:
Is it just me or does the line "Levi SAW ACTION in every game as a junior...." leave you a bit.... uninspired about this signing?   I can only hope that he turns out to be a late blooming, diamond in the rough - as with Koltun and Pelham we seem to have enough "projects".


I am all about optimism. Half full....I believe....Yes we CAN!!...all of that shit...

stilll.....

these can't be his numbers from junior year (you'll have to do a control-find, he's...kind of down the list)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/extra/highschool/preps_bball.aspx
Lafalum

Fran has a long term contract thanks to Art with highest paid salary on the staff. Especially in this environment there will be no buying out of contracts, but this doesn't look good.  Asst coaches do most of the actual screening  of recruits so that looks even worse.
Maybe as we go along there will come to be a legitimate D1 recruit available. Fran got what he wanted with scholarships but it sure doesn't look like he knows how to operate in that environment. (Unlike our other coaches and other PL coaches) And I really don't want to hear whinnng about the arena, the AI etc. Its not getting done!!
The Maroon

I really need somebody to tell me those stats are completely wrong, or tell me he plays for the most amazing high school team in the country whereven the 12th man is a D1 player. The idea that we are giving away a scholarship on a 3 PPG player is making me ill.

There's extenuating circumstances....and I NEED one of you guys to tell me what they are!!!
DaveR

The Maroon wrote:
There's extenuating circumstances....and I NEED one of you guys to tell me what they are!!!


Bios for both recruits posted on GoLeopards.com:
"On the AAU circuit, Giese averaged a double-double..."

Best I could do.  Confused
Xboreturns

I know most of you have written this kid off before he ever took the court or us, but I believe he is the type of player we have not been able to recruit in the past.  He's 6'9" and athletic. He has a nice touch around the basket and has some hops. Reminds me a lot of LU's Carrington. Time will tell who's right.
The Maroon

Xboreturns wrote:
I know most of you have written this kid off before he ever took the court or us, but I believe he is the type of player we have not been able to recruit in the past.  He's 6'9" and athletic. He has a nice touch around the basket and has some hops. Reminds me a lot of LU's Carrington. Time will tell who's right.


I do apologize for the harsh tone of my comments--as eventually he will probably find his way to this board and I don't want to give the impression we're awful fans.  The 3PPG thing just blew me away. I've never seen a D1 recruit with such numbers---except maybe a kid from Dematha, Oak Hill, Maine Central, etc.. Maybe his high school team is on that level--that's kind of why I posed the question.

I also have heard of too many recruits who Fran has told after a season that they aren't cut out to play for him. That's on Fran--not the player.

I also realize that not every recruit has to be an amazing splash. I feel like if you can get one or two studds/year and land a few nice players on top of that than recruiting is successful. I'm pretty much prepared to say that the class of 2012 is already a success by that standard. The class of 2011 isn't that far behind. I know our record right now is less than stellar, but I still think we have a decent future.

Either way: Welcome to the program Levi. If Fran thinks you can play, it's not for me to say otherwise.
Kiltedpard

Having never heard of this kid and never seen him, I did think the tone here was a little harsh. I have faith that Fran knows what he is doing and besides if a kid is averaging triple doubles he's not going to be wearing maroon and white anyway.
Pard4Life

I think the red-flag was there were no stats in his bio online.

But, why aren't we talking about the other recruit, Johnson?  Though he is not what we desperately need, he seems to have that intangible leadership... leader of some excellent teams and a scoring touch... perhpas the kind of guy to rally everyone and focus for a big game?  Maybe he is the type of player we need we could not have gotten with schollies...
Lafalum

Look guys the point is we want to get back to the PL championship and the big dance and its not going to happen with projects. I hope these kids make all american, pl rookie of the year and so on but we are not getting the same quality as the rest of the league. We wanted scholarships so we could be competitive. We are a getting nice kids but I don't see a difference maker yet.
carney2

If you want a glass half full look at all of this, T.M, you can take heart in the "fact" that this board only seems to bat about .500 in these long distance, sight unseen assessments.  We pretty much anointed Willen as soon as his name hit the recruiting list.  On the other hand, Mintz got nothing but "one of the best in the Toronto Jewish league" jokes from day one.  Both of these guys look like players to me.

Still, the Class of '13 is really beginning to look like a black hole that we will have to maneuver around as the years roll forward.  Fran needs to take a long look in the mirror.  It's been a few years since The Philadelphia Inquirer christened he and Don DeVoe of Navy as two of the best coaches you never heard of.
ericatbucknell

Pard4Life wrote:
I think the red-flag was there were no stats in his bio online.

But, why aren't we talking about the other recruit, Johnson?  Though he is not what we desperately need, he seems to have that intangible leadership... leader of some excellent teams and a scoring touch... perhpas the kind of guy to rally everyone and focus for a big game?  Maybe he is the type of player we need we could not have gotten with schollies...


the thing that would scare me about the johnson commitment, especially in light of the fact that he isnt ranked among the top 40 players in northern california by norcalpreps and, frankly, isnt ranked anywhere by anyone else, either, is the following quote from this commitment article:

Quote:
Johnson initially wanted to stay in California, but the opportunity to get a free education and play early on in his career led him to Lafayette.

"It just made sense to me," Johnson said. "I figured the cold weather was worth a full-ride scholarship and the opportunity to play early."


the wording suggests to me that he didnt have many (or perhaps any) other d1 options as the 'free education' theme doesnt make much sense in any other context. thats not good news when your home state has 23 d1 basketball programs. of course, everyone else could have missed on him and tony could be great, but the odds seem to be better when the recruit in question received substantial d1 interest.
Kiltedpard

In the People's Republic of California, all college is "free"

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