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Kpard

Rivalry @ the Hangar

I have a really bad feeling about this. I hope I am terribly wrong.

BEAT LEHIGH!!!!!
bethlehempard

The reliance on the three is a weakness, not a strength. Walk up, shoot a 25-footer. Repeat. Repeat.
The rebounding margin is an obscenity. We expect that, of course.
It's the Lafayette way.
Andy

bethlehempard wrote:
The reliance on the three is a weakness, not a strength. Walk up, shoot a 25-footer. Repeat. Repeat.
The rebounding margin is an obscenity. We expect that, of course.
It's the Lafayette way.


You should schedule an appointment with Fran, give him some instruction. Tell him that the impact of losing those 4 seniors should have been negligible, we want a championship every year. Dammit!
bethlehempard

In the last 10 full seasons, Lafayette had two winning years in the league, two .500 years and six losing seasons. That excludes this year.
This isn't about winning titles. It's about being competitive in a weak league (25th of 34). It's about how other core members have done in the post-season.
Other schools build on good seasons. Lafayette uses them as crutches for ensuing failures.
If anybody really likes what they've been seeing on the Hill for the last 25 years, that's great. You'll probably be seeing a lot more of it.

In the first half, it looked like two of our guys were going to collide while executing a pick-and-roll. It reminded me of U-10 ball.

In short, "Our teams stink but we sure have great coaches!"

I don't get it. It's at times a bizarro world where loyalty trumps logic, facts and common sense.

I'm clearly out of sync with the "thought leaders" on this board. I find the board to be quite informative, so I won't flee, but I will limit my posts to factual matters and links to other media.
Andy

Once again:

LC bball competed for the first time with 4 classes of scholarship players in 2009 (BOT allows scholarships in March 2006).  Since 2009, LC bball has won a championship, been in the league final 3 other times, and made a semi appearance 1 other year.  Lafayette has won 10 tournament games over that span, more than any other team. (quarterfinals onward).

In criticizing LC athletics, and I've been onboard with doing that for about 10 years, we have to delineate the supported programs from the unsupported. AFAIK, that's football, men's & women's bball, FH and men's soccer. Women's bball has been a disaster, the AD made 2 poor hires (note that Smith competed in a scholarship league w/out scholarships).  But we feel positive based on the current coach and her incoming class. Soccer seems to have slipped from being a top tier PL program. FH couldn't keep a coach who had it a top program in the nation. I assume it remains a respected program. I believe that Tavani has done well when the playing field has been level. We are now funded near the top in the league.  Results need to follow, IMO.

I believe informed poster bpard submitted a very reasonable plan for improvement.  We haven't seen one from the AD.
Lafalum

Andy wrote:
Once again:

LC bball competed for the first time with 4 classes of scholarship players in 2009 (BOT allows scholarships in March 2006).  Since 2009, LC bball has won a championship, been in the league final 3 other times, and made a semi appearance 1 other year.  Lafayette has won 10 tournament games over that span, more than any other team. (quarterfinals onward).

In criticizing LC athletics, and I've been onboard with doing that for about 10 years, we have to delineate the supported programs from the unsupported. AFAIK, that's football, men's & women's bball, FH and men's soccer. Women's bball has been a disaster, the AD made 2 poor hires (note that Smith competed in a scholarship league w/out scholarships).  But we feel positive based on the current coach and her incoming class. Soccer seems to have slipped from being a top tier PL program. FH couldn't keep a coach who had it a top program in the nation. I assume it remains a respected program. I believe that Tavani has done well when the playing field has been level. We are now funded near the top in the league.  Results need to follow, IMO.

I believe informed poster bpard submitted a very reasonable plan for improvement.  We haven't seen one from the AD.


Totally agree with Andy's analysis. First step is a new AD who reports to the prez!!
adcs2

First step is a new AD who reports to the prez!!

Amen
ed65

Amen again.  This was discussed with Alison when she took over and she decided to go with the current plan due to the time she felt athletics would take.  The current process allows for athletics to report to a bureaucrat who seems to know nothing about athletics and has enough to do with her other chores.  What she focuses on (I suspect) is budgets and budget focus is a huge part of the problem at LC.  

Alison, it time for athletics to report to you.
SixtyEighter

What baffles me is why these people - Byerly and Weiss- attend the games and then do nothing to right the ship. They have to see or to have seen what's going on on the field or the court. They too  witness(ed) with their own eyes the losses.However empirically and without any real evidence I am hoping the large numbers of recruits in many sports is an actual effort planned to improve things rather than mere happenstance.
Franks Tanks

ed65 wrote:
Amen again.  This was discussed with Alison when she took over and she decided to go with the current plan due to the time she felt athletics would take.  The current process allows for athletics to report to a bureaucrat who seems to know nothing about athletics and has enough to do with her other chores.  What she focuses on (I suspect) is budgets and budget focus is a huge part of the problem at LC.  

Alison, it time for athletics to report to you.


Can you expand on your statement?  By "time" did she mean she needs time to properly evaluate and formulate a plan, or did she already know what needs to be done but needed time to take action?
ed65

I'm speculating here but at the time (in the fall of her first year when she announced staffing changes - about the time Jim Dicker left) I think she did not realize the seriousness of LC's lack of competitiveness in the overall athletic program, not to mention the losing culture.  Remember her background at Middlebury is that sports are a distant second to anything else in that D-3 school and even though Middlebury generally has some good teams in certain sports, the school spends much less money than LC or any Patriot/Ivy program.  Also, the Yankee Stadium success and the bball PL Championship could have given the impression (however false) that all well with the athletic program.

Still speculating, I don't think she was buying time to evaluate the program or come up with a plan.  The evidence for this is the paltry $20 million for athletics that is included in the Capital Campaign ($5,000,00 which is wasted on the swimming pool upgrade).

For while now, she has been hearing from some alums about our concerns.  I would encourage everyone to get on the band wagon.  And to talk to Trustees who you may know.  BTW, last week the Board approved increasing the size of the school and going to "need blind" applications.  No numbers yet on increasing the size but for those of us who have been advocating raising the enrollment for many years, it was good to hear.

Hope this helps.
Lafalum

ed65 wrote:
I'm speculating here but at the time (in the fall of her first year when she announced staffing changes - about the time Jim Dicker left) I think she did not realize the seriousness of LC's lack of competitiveness in the overall athletic program, not to mention the losing culture.  Remember her background at Middlebury is that sports are a distant second to anything else in that D-3 school and even though Middlebury generally has some good teams in certain sports, the school spends much less money than LC or any Patriot/Ivy program.  Also, the Yankee Stadium success and the bball PL Championship could have given the impression (however false) that all well with the athletic program.

Still speculating, I don't think she was buying time to evaluate the program or come up with a plan.  The evidence for this is the paltry $20 million for athletics that is included in the Capital Campaign ($5,000,00 which is wasted on the swimming pool upgrade).

For while now, she has been hearing from some alums about our concerns.  I would encourage everyone to get on the band wagon.  And to talk to Trustees who you may know.  BTW, last week the Board approved increasing the size of the school and going to "need blind" applications.  No numbers yet on increasing the size but for those of us who have been advocating raising the enrollment for many years, it was good to hear.

Hope this helps.


The number is 2900-3000 students at the end 7-10 years. Need blind everyone realizes is pie in the sky.!! By the way, the total budget is about 18-19 million including scholarships. I would think they would want to see a return on that as will the people who ponied up 1.8 million in donations last year to the maroon club!
Lafalum

SixtyEighter wrote:
What baffles me is why these people - Byerly and Weiss- attend the games and then do nothing to right the ship. They have to see or to have seen what's going on on the field or the court. They too  witness(ed) with their own eyes the losses.However empirically and without any real evidence I am hoping the large numbers of recruits in many sports is an actual effort planned to improve things rather than mere happenstance.


I actually think the quality of our recruits is improving. Men's soccer got the player of the year in pa, Women's Lacrosse looks like they have something going with their younger players. The FH class maybe the best ever with 8 or 9 recruits, football looks decent. Of  course we don't know until they all wear a Lafayette Jersey but I do see some progress. NO EXCUSES for those sports getting scholarship support.
BPard

While looking for for this article about College Presidents and big time athletics to further ed65's comment (I agree athletics is a key change in the jump from Provost @ Middlebury to President at PL), I found that The Chronicle recommended this essay on what colleges should look for in an AD.

Many would agree the criteria espoused in the essay are a good fit for Lafayette.
NewXbo

I'd rather follow the Bucknell model. They seem to win the All Sports Championship every year.
seenalot

If sports are not important (distant second) at Middlebury they have a funny way of showing it.  Have you ever seen their facilities?  And, yes it is D3 but they have won National Championships in womens lax (2), mens soccer, mens and womens hockey (3 each), mens tennis, womens cross country, womens field hockey, and mens lax (2) since 2000.  Admittedly they aren't anything to write home about in hoops and football/baseball, but sports are NOT a second thought.

She came from a place that "gets it" and one that does it "right" that's why I had high hope for her.  I still have hope - but its waning a bit.
bison137

NewXbo wrote:
I'd rather follow the Bucknell model. They seem to win the All Sports Championship every year.



Not sure that will ever happen again.    When Chet Gladchuk took over as Navy's AD, they started emphasizing athletics at a much higher level.   More admission spots for athletes, more use of NAPS to redshirt players, and possibly lower admissions standards.    Plus they spend a lot more money on athletics.   Now Army has started to try to match that emphasis to keep from being left behind, and Boston U outspends every private school by a wide margin when it comes to athletics.   It will be tough for anyone else in the PL to be top three in years to come.


Bucknell, as  you probably know, does not have  scholarships  in men's lax, soccer, track, baseball, etc - which also is making  things increasingly difficult.   It is tough to recruit with just need-based aid.   I doubt you want that part of the Bucknell model.
ed65

seenalot wrote:
If sports are not important (distant second) at Middlebury they have a funny way of showing it.  Have you ever seen their facilities?  And, yes it is D3 but they have won National Championships in womens lax (2), mens soccer, mens and womens hockey (3 each), mens tennis, womens cross country, womens field hockey, and mens lax (2) since 2000.  Admittedly they aren't anything to write home about in hoops and football/baseball, but sports are NOT a second thought.

She came from a place that "gets it" and one that does it "right" that's why I had high hope for her.  I still have hope - but its waning a bit.


I'm well aware of Middlebury's athletics successes and well aware of their failures - several children of friends went there and I have visited the campus several times..  Whether as Provost ("managing" the faculty if that is possible) Byerly had anything whatever to do with athletics is unlikely.  I stand by my comment that the emphasis on athletics in a D1 Program is entirely different than what happens in Middlebury VT or any other D3 school for that matter.

By the way, I attended my first game in the renovated Kirby Field House on Saturday and both my wife and I were very impressed.  It really looks good and is in IMHO a major improvement (in spite of lower seating capacity).

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