Archive for Lafayette Sports Fan Forum This forum is not affiliated in any way with Lafayette College, Lafayette College Athletics, The Maroon Club or any other official organization. Please be respectful of other posters as well as the athletes, coaches and administrators.
 


       Lafayette Sports Fan Forum Forum Index -> Men's Basketball
Kpard

The College of The Holy Cross

Come on guys! Let's take this one tonight!
pards123

Up by 6 with 4 to play, started milking the clock. Haven't made a shot since. Game tied with 50 seconds left, HC at the line to take the lead...
pards123

Bail out foul call for Lindner after Joey P dropped a pass for a layup after a designed play.

Lindner to the line for 1 and 1 with 22 left, Pards down 1

Lindner makes both, Pards up 1. HC ball
pards123

HC makes a layup, Lindner sprints up court, ball goes out of bounds, two different calls made for possession. Now they are reviewing with no call made on the court.
pards123

They gave it to Lafayette for an unknown reason. Replay was inconclusive

Hinrichs misses shot at the buzzer. This one hurts
leopard521

And the three stooges screw us again. When is this joke of a league going to fix this situation? Other than this we need to fix the defensive problem or were gonna be in for a difficult playoff run
Pard4Life

We.. SUCK!  Can't close a game... two points in four minutes?  There needs to be some explaining... Got away with the Linder foul, but I can't help but notice that Linder was awful three consecutive possession with the ball... poor Tony Johnson impression on one drive, double-team shot attempt on another, and then falling down on the drive and was bailed out by the referee... Awful, awful...

At this point, first place is unreachable... typical Fran season of 15-15, here we come!
Pard4Life

leopard521 wrote:
And the three stooges screw us again. When is this joke of a league going to fix this situation? Other than this we need to fix the defensive problem or were gonna be in for a difficult playoff run


This loss is not on the referees... if anything... they nearly handed us the game twice at the end, but we never should have been in the situation we were in...
Andy

2 possessions to extend a 6 point lead, couldn't get it done. No one to blame but ourselves IMO.
BillS

pards123 wrote:
They gave it to Lafayette for an unknown reason. Replay was inconclusive

Hinrichs misses shot at the buzzer. This one hurts
bad loss Linder made some very poor decisions holding the ball and forcing shots in the last 2 minutes..Joey made a big mistake under the basket not checking his man...ugh this should of been one of our better years but it's not gonna happen folks.  Crying or Very sad
Andy

Frustrating....
leopard521

Pard4Life wrote:
leopard521 wrote:
And the three stooges screw us again. When is this joke of a league going to fix this situation? Other than this we need to fix the defensive problem or were gonna be in for a difficult playoff run


This loss is not on the referees... if anything... they nearly handed us the game twice at the end, but we never should have been in the situation we were in...



But it was obvious Lindner got up-ended before that whole situation with who had the ball. 4 games the refs have killed us and we kill ourselves by not holding a lead
bethlehempard

Stats look good from a distance:

Team Stats LAF HC
Shooting 27-53 (.509) 30-61 (.492)
3PT Shooting 12-19 (.632) 8-21 (.381)
Free Throws 7-7 (1.000) 6-11 (.545)
Rebounds 6-28 10-29
Assists 21 19
Steals 2 3
Blocks 7 2
Turnovers 10 6
Fouls 12 13
Franks Tanks

BillS wrote:
pards123 wrote:
They gave it to Lafayette for an unknown reason. Replay was inconclusive

Hinrichs misses shot at the buzzer. This one hurts
bad loss Linder made some very poor decisions holding the ball and forcing shots in the last 2 minutes..Joey made a big mistake under the basket not checking his man...ugh this should of been one of our better years but it's not gonna happen folks.  Crying or Very sad


Yup, this was our year.  We will be worse next year, and outside of Matt K our frosh and incoming recruits don't really impress.

Will the guys or gals even have a winning season at this point?  They are the only hope.
pardfan

I hope there is a plan out there concerning Fran's tenure.  Nice fellow; but...
pards123

Yeah...I'm sure there's a plan, this is Lafayette Athletics we are talking about.
bethlehempard

There are 11 regular-season games left. This team could easily go 17-12 which would IMHO be a success.
BillS

pards123 wrote:
Yeah...I'm sure there's a plan, this is Lafayette Athletics we are talking about.
I believe Fran has one year left on his contract , but the administration isn't going to pressure him to leave.
Lafalum

The plan is always the same, promote the asst or hire the cheapest guy that shows up. After all, we need the money to hire another administrator. In any case, I am not giving up on this team yet.  This is anyone's league this season, and we are capable of playing really well.
pardfan

The thing that worries me the most is that this league is getting tougher and tougher.  The easy teams to beat like Colgate and Navy...forget about it.
pards123

Lafalum wrote:
The plan is always the same, promote the asst or hire the cheapest guy that shows up. After all, we need the money to hire another administrator. In any case, I am not giving up on this team yet.  This is anyone's league this season, and we are capable of playing really well.


I would agree with that. The PL tournament will be chock full of upsets.
bethlehempard

We can't get swept by Colgate again. We just can't.
Kpard

Andy wrote:
2 possessions to extend a 6 point lead, couldn't get it done. No one to blame but ourselves IMO.


We have the most talent in years, we certainly have enough game experience, we just lack The ability to finish off games, the killer instinct.
Milking the clock starting with 5 minutes to go and a slim lead doesn't help. That's a coaching call?
It is not what I expected which is why it is disapointing.
Andy

Kpard wrote:
Andy wrote:
2 possessions to extend a 6 point lead, couldn't get it done. No one to blame but ourselves IMO.


We have the most talent in years, we certainly have enough game experience, we just lack The ability to finish off games, the killer instinct.
Milking the clock starting with 5 minutes to go and a slim lead doesn't help. That's a coaching call?
It is not what I expected which is why it is disapointing.


True, the home losses hurt the most.

So, last night , Joey, 1 shot in 36 mins. and 2 rebounds.  1 shot....
Kpard

[quote="Andy:45479"]
Kpard wrote:
Andy wrote:
2 possessions to extend a 6 point lead, couldn't get it done. No one to blame but ourselves IMO.


We have the most talent in years, we certainly have enough game experience, we just lack The ability to finish off games, the killer instinct.
Milking the clock starting with 5 minutes to go and a slim lead doesn't help. That's a coaching call?
It is not what I expected which is why it is disapointing.


True, the home losses hurt the most.

quote]

So true. If we would have held serve at home we'd be tied for first, thumping our chests and doing the happy dance!  Rolling Eyes  Surprised
SixtyEighter

I think we are over rating our players.We have been non competetive in the league for a while and it is continuing. Winning playoff games is nice but it doesn't compensate for losing in the league during the regular season.The worst part is that these losses are largely self inflicted.Holy Cross is the second worst team in the league.The collapse at the end of last night's game was awful.
pards123

SixtyEighter wrote:
I think we are over rating our players.We have been non competetive in the league for a while and it is continuing. Winning playoff games is nice but it doesn't compensate for losing in the league during the regular season.The worst part is that these losses are largely self inflicted.Holy Cross is the second worst team in the league.The collapse at the end of last night's game was awful.


I agree and disagree with your comments. I actually do agree that we've been over rating our players. However, saying we've been non competitive in the league is nonsense. We've been in the final of the PL tournament three of the past 5 years.
Grandpa Tom

Very Happy DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!  It is just that easy!  I am so frustrated with this team I am ready to throw up.  My kingdom for a team that buys into defending.  And Fran, if you are listening in on this, and you can't or won't teach it and demand it for gosh sakes hire an assistant who can and will and get the hell out of his way and let him run it!  Now that that is over, I don't think we are over rating these players at all.  This team can and should be special instead of middle of the pack, but we can't do it playing ole' defense, committing fouls because you refuse to move your feet, and getting bumped off on ball screens!  There is a lot more I could say on the subject but you all get the drift.  GO PARDS!!!
Lafalum

Grandpa Tom wrote:
Very Happy DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!  It is just that easy!  I am so frustrated with this team I am ready to throw up.  My kingdom for a team that buys into defending.  And Fran, if you are listening in on this, and you can't or won't teach it and demand it for gosh sakes hire an assistant who can and will and get the hell out of his way and let him run it!  Now that that is over, I don't think we are over rating these players at all.  This team can and should be special instead of middle of the pack, but we can't do it playing ole' defense, committing fouls because you refuse to move your feet, and getting bumped off on ball screens!  There is a lot more I could say on the subject but you all get the drift.  GO PARDS!!!


Totally agree…..when was the last time we had a really effective press. Our guys first move after a miss is back up court without challenging for a rebound most times. Even given that we let HC have several fast breaks and moves directly to the basket.
One thing that is noticeable is the lack of vertical power from our big men.. Though Trist is good and has some good moves but wouldn't we like to see a dunk or two every game??
Leopard Loyalist

The whole league is middle-of-the-pack this year. We need to ensure we get a home seed for the playoffs, because the playoffs will be wide open (not that playing at home has guaranteed anything so far).
bethlehempard

We did get to three finals and were underdogs and then losers each time.
It's time to be the big dog. We haven't been in almost 20 years.
We don't dominate a forgiving league (to be delicate about it) and we struggle with schools we out-classed before 2000.
It's worth repeating: no postseason appearances or 20-win seasons in this century. 13-17 average year.
Pick it up this can still be a good year.
Steve

I saw the last 11 minutes or so of last night's game, and here are some thoughts.

Joey was not a factor offensively at all.  He didn't take a shot in the portion of the game that I saw, and as Andy mentioned, he only took one shot all game.  Last year, and in this year's pre-PL season, he was able to get shots, sometimes because of his willingness to take 3-pointers from a long distance and difficult angles, not needing to square up before shooting.  But the PL teams are well aware of his ability to take and hit such shots, and are not making it easy for him to get looks even at difficult 3-point shots.  He and the team will have to work extra hard at creating motion and setting screens for him to get him shots.  The coaches drew up a nice play out of a time-out late in the game to get him open off a back cut for what looked to be an easy layup, but he bobbled the pass.

In addition to Joey's struggles to find shots, Bryce Scott has really fallen off as a scoring threat.  He has gone from a promising scorer as a freshman, and a player who looked at times early in his sophomore year like he was ready to break out into a big-time scorer, to a guy who is having difficulty scoring in significant numbers.  Hopefully, he can get back on track.

I didn't like the fact that we ran so much clock on offense during the last 5 minutes when we led by 6 points or less (and I was thinking this at the time, not just in hindsight).  The lead wasn't that big in relation to the amount of time left on the clock.  I guess the coaches felt our odds were good that we could score enough late and that HC would have trouble scoring.  However, when we have to look for a shot with little time left in the shot clock, it means that it usually will come down to Lindner having to create a shot, with few other options, and reduces the role of Hinrichs, Trist and others.  Given the range of offensive weapons we have, I don't know that it makes sense to have things come down to Lindner being forced to create a shot with a few seconds left on the shot clock.  (And I think highly of Nick as a point guard.)

I disagree with those blaming Lindner for this.  When we run that much time off the clock, we're placing him in a difficult position of having to create a shot on his own with few options.  On one play, he drove past one of HC's bigs (I can't remember who) and looked like he would score on a layup, but he seemed to lose control of the ball as he shot and missed.  A short while later, he drove to the hoop, but HC's Alexander did a very good job of staying with him, and blocked Nick's shot easily.  But that play was more a result of Nick being placed in a difficult position than of him making a bad decision.  I did like the fact that Nick has resumed taking (and hitting) open 3-pointers when he gets a look.

Unless we improve our defense, we're going to  have to play very efficiently on offense to be successful.  The PL teams, who are more familiar with us, seem to be defending us somewhat better than our non-conference opponents.  If our offensive efficiency drops, our deficiencies on defense leave us vulnerable.  For example, with about 1 & 1/2 minutes left in last night's game, Joey completely lost track of his man -- Green -- leaving him wide open under the basket for a layup.  We can't afford breakdowns like that in the last 2 minutes of a tight game.

I thought the refs made 2 bad calls in the last minute, but it turned out to be a wash for us.  I didn't think the foul on Burrell against Lindner should have been called, because the contact was minor.  (I give credit to Nick for hitting the clutch free throws, though.)  But on the previous play, the refs made a bad call, because Trist clearly had position and didn't move on the drive by Hahn.  (They replayed the play several times, so we had plenty of chance to look at it.)  So each team benefited from a bad call, and it turned out to be a wash.

On the winning shot by Burrell, we got caught in a tough switch, when Hinrichs ended up having to guard Burrell.  Seth has a big height advantage over Burrell, but Burrell has a big advantage in speed, and he did a good job of taking advantage of it.  On the last play of the game, we ended up getting a good look for Seth on the out-of-bounds play with less than 3 seconds left, but the shot didn't fall.

The margin between winning and losing is often very small, as our last four games have demonstrated, with three of them being won on shots with less than 7 seconds left, and the other a four-point win.  If Seth's final shot had fallen, we would have managed to win, but it wouldn't have negated the issues with our play.

The early part of league play definitely has been a disappointment to me.  I really thought we'd be better than this in the league.  As I mentioned, the margins in many of the games have been close, and I'm certainly not ruling out a turnaround.  However, I did think that we'd be good enough this year that we wouldn't need to be in a position where we have to sweat out the end of each game, based on whether a shot falls in the final seconds.
seenalot

All fine and true, but frankly I don't understand why we almost always look for an outside shot for the last gasp vs. taking it to the hoop (think Boykins here) and looking for either the bucket or the foul.  

I admit we aren't going to get the close ticky tacky call when away, but I think overall that's a better approach to the now predictable set someone up for a mid-range outside shot....   If I was the opponent I wouldn't even bother to defend someone going hard to the basket - we don't do it.

Think this is the second game in a row when we have had a total of 7 free throw attempts....that's just missing a chance when you have a team that shoots free throws this well.
SixtyEighter

Pards23 - Re-read my comment. I acknowledge the play off wins but I am fed up with poor performance in the regular season. 13-17 for the last 5 years is not acceptable with no league championships since 2003 or 2004.Our play off sucess is due to Fran's being a great playoff coach and is not a sign of consistent competitive play  in the league.Last year we had a losing record in the league in spite of going 7-3 in the last 10 and went one and done in the tournament. Our basketball program can not be considered successful when we have a consistent losing record over a period of time but win some tournament games.
Lafalum

SixtyEighter wrote:
Pards23 - Re-read my comment. I acknowledge the play off wins but I am fed up with poor performance in the regular season. 13-17 for the last 5 years is not acceptable with no league championships since 2003 or 2004.Our play off sucess is due to Fran's being a great playoff coach and is not a sign of consistent competitive play  in the league.Last year we had a losing record in the league in spite of going 7-3 in the last 10 and went one and done in the tournament. Our basketball program can not be considered successful when we have a consistent losing record over a period of time but win some tournament games.


That is the record of all our teams ….!!!!
adcs2

"Last year we had a losing record in the league in spite of going 7-3 in the last 10 and went one and done in the tournament."

Actually, we were two and done.  The  Pards beat Loyola in the first round.
gopards81

The Colleghe of Holy Cross

I've read alot of stuff on this board and I don't see enough addressing players skillsets, habits and opportunities for growth.  Yes, FOH's coaching, rotations, inability to get players to play defense etc. may be a fault for some losses but at no point have we stopped to look at development in the form of discipline.  FOH allows bad habits, bad decisions and selfiishness get in the way.

I've said this beforenand some may disagree, I think there's alot of opportunity to improve Lindler's game.  Spending much of my later adult years in Philadelphia area, I had the chance to see him play in H.S. and AAU.  I can't say he's not a gritty player, because he is.  I  can't say he doesn't hustle because he does.  I'm sure being 5'9" allows him alot more mobility and speed than the avg. mid-major point guard.  He's also a kid that was held back in school and is a year older than most sophmore's.  I spent a summer watching him play AAU ball with one of my younger family members and he was always known to be a kid interested in his stats.  It was always someone else's fault when things didn't work out for him.  Many times yelling at teammates because they messed up his assist.

But on a skill level, has anyone bothered to notice that he can't work the lefy side of the court nor does he even set up players on the left side of the court.  He flubbed up his dribble trying to drive left at the end of the HC game.  He just got bailed out with a bad foul call.  Is this an opportunity for development?  I think the teams that do a good scout on us have figured it out.  He only "successfully" goes right! What?  A 5'9" PG that can't go left?

"Steve", you mentioned that he gets stuck in bad situations late in the shot clock trying to make something happen and having to force a shot or drive.  I respectfully disagree.  Lindler will pass the ball early in the offense because he knows coach doesn't want that early shot.  He gets the ball back mid clock and now he gets to choose whether he wants the assist or point.  Why not give up the ball to a taller wing to make the pass inside or to Seth or Joey.  He holds the ball too long on transition because he won't get the assist if it's given up too early.  I've also noticed that he still has the same habit he did in HS; if he doesn't have enough points at the end of a game, he goes on a shooting and driving binge.  His favorite habit (hasn't changed) is to hold onto the ball at the end of a game that his team is winning and look to get fouled and pad his stats at the free throw line.  Aren't these all things that can be worked on?

He was always that player that was happy at the end of a game even if his team lost as long as he did well and not happy if his team won and he didn't do well.  He seems to pout on the bench today so that doesn't seem to have changed.  Can we expect a little more maturity, leadership and a little less selfishness?  On a technical note; In the Army game when he got hurt, could he have passed the ball up the court or was he holding it to get fouled, head to the free-throw like and make more points?  Maybe passing the ball too early in that transitionwasn't an option for him because he wouldn't get the credit for the assist?  I don't know.  Just an observation.

FOH should hold him more accountable and work on some of these bad habits.  Next time he sits on the floor and complains to the ref. about not getting the foul after getting his shot swatted (for the 100th time) then take him out for not getting back.  We don't need Seth or other players getting his foul on the other end because we have a four on five situation so he can sit on the floor complaining.  Players and people respect Tony Johnson because he was a selfless team player!  Can we find another honorable PG like him or have we closed 2015 recruiting?

Skillsets are sometimes harder to overcome especially at this stage in their careers but certainly bad habits or characteristics can be delt with.  Each young man has his own set of things that needs to be refined......, skills, habits etc.  Just thought I's start with the PG.



[quote="Steve:45495"]I saw the last 11 minutes or so of last night's game, and here are some thoughts.

Joey was not a factor offensively at all.  He didn't take a shot in the portion of the game that I saw, and as Andy mentioned, he only took one shot all game.  Last year, and in this year's pre-PL season, he was able to get shots, sometimes because of his willingness to take 3-pointers from a long distance and difficult angles, not needing to square up before shooting.  But the PL teams are well aware of his ability to take and hit such shots, and are not making it easy for him to get looks even at difficult 3-point shots.  He and the team will have to work extra hard at creating motion and setting screens for him to get him shots.  The coaches drew up a nice play out of a time-out late in the game to get him open off a back cut for what looked to be an easy layup, but he bobbled the pass.

In addition to Joey's struggles to find shots, Bryce Scott has really fallen off as a scoring threat.  He has gone from a promising scorer as a freshman, and a player who looked at times early in his sophomore year like he was ready to break out into a big-time scorer, to a guy who is having difficulty scoring in significant numbers.  Hopefully, he can get back on track.

I didn't like the fact that we ran so much clock on offense during the last 5 minutes when we led by 6 points or less (and I was thinking this at the time, not just in hindsight).  The lead wasn't that big in relation to the amount of time left on the clock.  I guess the coaches felt our odds were good that we could score enough late and that HC would have trouble scoring.  However, when we have to look for a shot with little time left in the shot clock, it means that it usually will come down to Lindner having to create a shot, with few other options, and reduces the role of Hinrichs, Trist and others.  Given the range of offensive weapons we have, I don't know that it makes sense to have things come down to Lindner being forced to create a shot with a few seconds left on the shot clock.  (And I think highly of Nick as a point guard.)

I disagree with those blaming Lindner for this.  When we run that much time off the clock, we're placing him in a difficult position of having to create a shot on his own with few options.  On one play, he drove past one of HC's bigs (I can't remember who) and looked like he would score on a layup, but he seemed to lose control of the ball as he shot and missed.  A short while later, he drove to the hoop, but HC's Alexander did a very good job of staying with him, and blocked Nick's shot easily.  But that play was more a result of Nick being placed in a difficult position than of him making a bad decision.  I did like the fact that Nick has resumed taking (and hitting) open 3-pointers when he gets a look.

Unless we improve our defense, we're going to  have to play very efficiently on offense to be successful.  The PL teams, who are more familiar with us, seem to be defending us somewhat better than our non-conference opponents.  If our offensive efficiency drops, our deficiencies on defense leave us vulnerable.  For example, with about 1 & 1/2 minutes left in last night's game, Joey completely lost track of his man -- Green -- leaving him wide open under the basket for a layup.  We can't afford breakdowns like that in the last 2 minutes of a tight game.

I thought the refs made 2 bad calls in the last minute, but it turned out to be a wash for us.  I didn't think the foul on Burrell against Lindner should have been called, because the contact was minor.  (I give credit to Nick for hitting the clutch free throws, though.)  But on the previous play, the refs made a bad call, because Trist clearly had position and didn't move on the drive by Hahn.  (They replayed the play several times, so we had plenty of chance to look at it.)  So each team benefited from a bad call, and it turned out to be a wash.

On the winning shot by Burrell, we got caught in a tough switch, when Hinrichs ended up having to guard Burrell.  Seth has a big height advantage over Burrell, but Burrell has a big advantage in speed, and he did a good job of taking advantage of it.  On the last play of the game, we ended up getting a good look for Seth on the out-of-bounds play with less than 3 seconds left, but the shot didn't fall.

The margin between winning and losing is often very small, as our last four games have demonstrated, with three of them being won on shots with less than 7 seconds left, and the other a four-point win.  If Seth's final shot had fallen, we would have managed to win, but it wouldn't have negated the issues with our play.

The early part of league play definitely has been a disappointment to me.  I really thought we'd be better than this in the league.  As I mentioned, the margins in many of the games have been close, and I'm certainly not ruling out a turnaround.  However, I did think that we'd be good enough this year that we wouldn't need to be in a position where we have to sweat out the end of each game, based on whether a shot falls in the final seconds.[/quote]
BillS

Re: The Colleghe of Holy Cross

gopards81 wrote:
I've read alot of stuff on this board and I don't see enough addressing players skillsets, habits and opportunities for growth.  Yes, FOH's coaching, rotations, inability to get players to play defense etc. may be a fault for some losses but at no point have we stopped to look at development in the form of discipline.  FOH allows bad habits, bad decisions and selfiishness get in the way.

I've said this beforenand some may disagree, I think there's alot of opportunity to improve Lindler's game.  Spending much of my later adult years in Philadelphia area, I had the chance to see him play in H.S. and AAU.  I can't say he's not a gritty player, because he is.  I  can't say he doesn't hustle because he does.  I'm sure being 5'9" allows him alot more mobility and speed than the avg. mid-major point guard.  He's also a kid that was held back in school and is a year older than most sophmore's.  I spent a summer watching him play AAU ball with one of my younger family members and he was always known to be a kid interested in his stats.  It was always someone else's fault when things didn't work out for him.  Many times yelling at teammates because they messed up his assist.

But on a skill level, has anyone bothered to notice that he can't work the lefy side of the court nor does he even set up players on the left side of the court.  He flubbed up his dribble trying to drive left at the end of the HC game.  He just got bailed out with a bad foul call.  Is this an opportunity for development?  I think the teams that do a good scout on us have figured it out.  He only "successfully" goes right! What?  A 5'9" PG that can't go left?

"Steve", you mentioned that he gets stuck in bad situations late in the shot clock trying to make something happen and having to force a shot or drive.  I respectfully disagree.  Lindler will pass the ball early in the offense because he knows coach doesn't want that early shot.  He gets the ball back mid clock and now he gets to choose whether he wants the assist or point.  Why not give up the ball to a taller wing to make the pass inside or to Seth or Joey.  He holds the ball too long on transition because he won't get the assist if it's given up too early.  I've also noticed that he still has the same habit he did in HS; if he doesn't have enough points at the end of a game, he goes on a shooting and driving binge.  His favorite habit (hasn't changed) is to hold onto the ball at the end of a game that his team is winning and look to get fouled and pad his stats at the free throw line.  Aren't these all things that can be worked on?

He was always that player that was happy at the end of a game even if his team lost as long as he did well and not happy if his team won and he didn't do well.  He seems to pout on the bench today so that doesn't seem to have changed.  Can we expect a little more maturity, leadership and a little less selfishness?  On a technical note; In the Army game when he got hurt, could he have passed the ball up the court or was he holding it to get fouled, head to the free-throw like and make more points?  Maybe passing the ball too early in that transitionwasn't an option for him because he wouldn't get the credit for the assist?  I don't know.  Just an observation.

FOH should hold him more accountable and work on some of these bad habits.  Next time he sits on the floor and complains to the ref. about not getting the foul after getting his shot swatted (for the 100th time) then take him out for not getting back.  We don't need Seth or other players getting his foul on the other end because we have a four on five situation so he can sit on the floor complaining.  Players and people respect Tony Johnson because he was a selfless team player!  Can we find another honorable PG like him or have we closed 2015 recruiting?

Skillsets are sometimes harder to overcome especially at this stage in their careers but certainly bad habits or characteristics can be delt with.  Each young man has his own set of things that needs to be refined......, skills, habits etc.  Just thought I's start with the PG. I totally agree about Lindner.



Steve wrote:
I saw the last 11 minutes or so of last night's game, and here are some thoughts.

Joey was not a factor offensively at all.  He didn't take a shot in the portion of the game that I saw, and as Andy mentioned, he only took one shot all game.  Last year, and in this year's pre-PL season, he was able to get shots, sometimes because of his willingness to take 3-pointers from a long distance and difficult angles, not needing to square up before shooting.  But the PL teams are well aware of his ability to take and hit such shots, and are not making it easy for him to get looks even at difficult 3-point shots.  He and the team will have to work extra hard at creating motion and setting screens for him to get him shots.  The coaches drew up a nice play out of a time-out late in the game to get him open off a back cut for what looked to be an easy layup, but he bobbled the pass.

In addition to Joey's struggles to find shots, Bryce Scott has really fallen off as a scoring threat.  He has gone from a promising scorer as a freshman, and a player who looked at times early in his sophomore year like he was ready to break out into a big-time scorer, to a guy who is having difficulty scoring in significant numbers.  Hopefully, he can get back on track.

I didn't like the fact that we ran so much clock on offense during the last 5 minutes when we led by 6 points or less (and I was thinking this at the time, not just in hindsight).  The lead wasn't that big in relation to the amount of time left on the clock.  I guess the coaches felt our odds were good that we could score enough late and that HC would have trouble scoring.  However, when we have to look for a shot with little time left in the shot clock, it means that it usually will come down to Lindner having to create a shot, with few other options, and reduces the role of Hinrichs, Trist and others.  Given the range of offensive weapons we have, I don't know that it makes sense to have things come down to Lindner being forced to create a shot with a few seconds left on the shot clock.  (And I think highly of Nick as a point guard.)

I disagree with those blaming Lindner for this.  When we run that much time off the clock, we're placing him in a difficult position of having to create a shot on his own with few options.  On one play, he drove past one of HC's bigs (I can't remember who) and looked like he would score on a layup, but he seemed to lose control of the ball as he shot and missed.  A short while later, he drove to the hoop, but HC's Alexander did a very good job of staying with him, and blocked Nick's shot easily.  But that play was more a result of Nick being placed in a difficult position than of him making a bad decision.  I did like the fact that Nick has resumed taking (and hitting) open 3-pointers when he gets a look.

Unless we improve our defense, we're going to  have to play very efficiently on offense to be successful.  The PL teams, who are more familiar with us, seem to be defending us somewhat better than our non-conference opponents.  If our offensive efficiency drops, our deficiencies on defense leave us vulnerable.  For example, with about 1 & 1/2 minutes left in last night's game, Joey completely lost track of his man -- Green -- leaving him wide open under the basket for a layup.  We can't afford breakdowns like that in the last 2 minutes of a tight game.

I thought the refs made 2 bad calls in the last minute, but it turned out to be a wash for us.  I didn't think the foul on Burrell against Lindner should have been called, because the contact was minor.  (I give credit to Nick for hitting the clutch free throws, though.)  But on the previous play, the refs made a bad call, because Trist clearly had position and didn't move on the drive by Hahn.  (They replayed the play several times, so we had plenty of chance to look at it.)  So each team benefited from a bad call, and it turned out to be a wash.

On the winning shot by Burrell, we got caught in a tough switch, when Hinrichs ended up having to guard Burrell.  Seth has a big height advantage over Burrell, but Burrell has a big advantage in speed, and he did a good job of taking advantage of it.  On the last play of the game, we ended up getting a good look for Seth on the out-of-bounds play with less than 3 seconds left, but the shot didn't fall.

The margin between winning and losing is often very small, as our last four games have demonstrated, with three of them being won on shots with less than 7 seconds left, and the other a four-point win.  If Seth's final shot had fallen, we would have managed to win, but it wouldn't have negated the issues with our play.

The early part of league play definitely has been a disappointment to me.  I really thought we'd be better than this in the league.  As I mentioned, the margins in many of the games have been close, and I'm certainly not ruling out a turnaround.  However, I did think that we'd be good enough this year that we wouldn't need to be in a position where we have to sweat out the end of each game, based on whether a shot falls in the final seconds.
NewXbo

If you are going o do a hachett job on a player, a player you have seen play in high school, in AAU you should at least know how to spell is name.
DaveR

Steve wrote:
I thought the refs made 2 bad calls in the last minute, but it turned out to be a wash for us.  I didn't think the foul on Burrell against Lindner should have been called, because the contact was minor.  (I give credit to Nick for hitting the clutch free throws, though.)  But on the previous play, the refs made a bad call, because Trist clearly had position and didn't move on the drive by Hahn.  (They replayed the play several times, so we had plenty of chance to look at it.)  So each team benefited from a bad call, and it turned out to be a wash.

I was thinking the same thing watching that series live.  Classic makeup call. Rolling Eyes
Lafalum

NewXbo wrote:
If you are going o do a hachett job on a player, a player you have seen play in high school, in AAU you should at least know how to spell is name.


I think we are all starting to panic too soon. While I may agree I wish we had won more games the point is I suppose we have not been blown out and every game was winnable.  I have a hard time listening to critiques  of individual players unless he/she was committing felonies ( or deflating balls??)!! Strategy etc is fair game.
carney2

Why do a bunch of educated people have such a difficult time with our own players' names?!

It's Nick Lindner.  Not Linder.  Not Lindler.  LindNer.

And its Seth Hinrichs pronounced with two short i's.
Andy

carney2 wrote:
Why do a bunch of educated people have such a difficult time with our own players' names?!

It's Nick Lindner.  Not Linder.  Not Lindler.  LindNer.

And its Seth Hinrichs pronounced with two short i's.


No matter how you align the consonants, Nick can play point for me anytime.  Glad he's with us.
Steve

I strongly disagree with 81's criticism of Lindner.  Not that there aren't any faults in his game -- he's just past the midway point of his soph year, and he still has plenty of time to develop and improve.  Tony Johnson improved a ton from that point on in his career, and hopefully Nick will continue to polish his game.

Regarding your comments about the last 5 minutes of the HC game, I have to question how closely you paid attention to that portion of the game.  Nick wasn't just going off on his own dribbling time off the shot clock -- it was clear that our strategy was to work the clock and minimize the number of possessions with us in the lead.  The reason the ball was in Nick's hands is because he is clearly our best ballhandler dribbling the ball against pressure.  If you saw the Kansas game, even Kansas didn't turn Nick over dribbling the ball up against man-to-man fullcourt pressure.

As far as your claims that Nick allegedly is selfish, I think that is way off base.  Lets check out stats in some games this year -- vs. Sacred Heart, 12 assists, 8 shots; Susquehanna -- 9 assists, 0 shots; NJIT -- 8 assists, 2 shots.  Those are not the shots of a selfish player.

Regarding Nick's attitude, I think back to last year's game at Seton Hall.  That game was a blowout for us from early on, and the tone was made more subdued by the frightening injury to Gene Teague of Seton Hall.  In the last 2 minutes of the game, we were trailing by more than 30, and the coaches put in our deep reserves to get them some time.  During this stretch, Nick was the one player (on either team's bench) who was standing up with every play, shouting encouragement to his teammates -- many of whom were his freshman classmates.  That definitely is not the attitude of a selfish player who is only concerned about his own stats.  I agree with Andy -- Nick can play for me anytime.
Kpard

I make it a point of never, ever criticizing an individual player. We are talking about college kids, not professionals and we need to be careful how we use this medium. I have followed this program for over 40 years which is why I care so much about it. I have never played D1 hoops, nor do pretend to know what it takes to attend college and play at that level so I am certainly not in a position to call out a player. I think we all need to be very careful in that regard.
pards123

This guy clearly had some sort of axe to grind. One of the most one sided posts I've ever read on a sports forum, including pro sports
Lafalum

Kpard wrote:
I make it a point of never, ever criticizing an individual player. We are talking about college kids, not professionals and we need to be careful how we use this medium. I have followed this program for over 40 years which is why I care so much about it. I have never played D1 hoops, nor do pretend to know what it takes to attend college and play at that level so I am certainly not in a position to call out a player. I think we all need to be very careful in that regard.


Couldn't agree more.
carney2

Lots of bumps and bruises on this board as folks jump on and off the bandwagon, but for real, down and dirty viciousness, check the Holy Cross self abuse board:

http://s2.excoboard.com/Crossports

After leading most of the way they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory last night at home vs. American.  They, for the moment, are the sole occupants of the Patriot League basement.  There is a thread stating that this game was The End for coach Milan Brown (or MB/CMB as he is known by the Woo Code Talkers), and another one, currently 8 pages and 200+ posts in length, discussing who the next coach will be.  Throughout it all there is very little humor displayed.  They are even attacking each other.

Just sayin', and congratulating you people on the way things are handled here.  We have our highs and we have our lows.  Both, of course, tend to be over-hyped and exaggerated.   We can, however, depend on someone adding some humor and even occasionally some rational comments.  Bogie was good at both.  We miss him.

       Lafayette Sports Fan Forum Forum Index -> Men's Basketball
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum