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Bogus Megapardus

vs. Metropolitan College

This is a home game and is a MUST win if we don't want to be the laughing stock of Division I lacrosse.  Metro C. is a first year team (albeit with an experienced coach) and they've yet to win a game.

PLEASE don't let the Pards be their first.

The inside word is that the refs won't really be measuring the Metropolitan College sticks this afternoon.  They'll just be checking to make sure all their players actually can count up to 40.
Bogus Megapardus

In addition to "Metropolitan College," it seems that our newest league member also exploits something it calls "Sargent College" through which it can evade and undermine the function and spirit of the academic index and further denigrate the league's once-proud scholarly reputation.

A quick glace reveals that the assigned function of "Sargent College" is to print authentic-looking bachelor's diplomas for "degrees" in "diet and exercise" and "personal training" and the like.  A number of lacrosse players are enrolled at "Sargent College."

Must be nice, huh?






.
Bogus Megapardus

Hey Boston University - How 'bout you self-impose a rule that says all of your Patriot League athletes must be enrolled either in your School of Engineering or your School of Arts and Sciences; and that those athletes must meet the academic index as measured against the general matriculation in those schools.  

It would take some convincing, for me at least, to understand why anyone would have even the smallest problem with that.
PardsLax

Re: vs. Metropolitan College

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
This is a home game and is a MUST win if we don't want to be the laughing stock of Division I lacrosse.  Metro C. is a first year team (albeit with an experienced coach) and they've yet to win a game.  PLEASE don't let the Pards be their first.


Amen!  This game does have me worried.  BU played Colgate much too close for comfort last week and played Lehigh closely as well.  Their FOGO and goalie have played well and their righty attackman looked very dangerous against Colgate with a nice arsenal of shots.
Bogus Megapardus

Remember Metro C. is full scholarship from the get-go.  I doubt Pards have more than 4-5 lax scholarships, if that.
Bogus Megapardus

Well, Metro now is up 2-0.

I feel as if I should stop watching.
Bogus Megapardus

End of 1st Q:

Sucks to BU - 4
Pards - 0

Something's gotta change.
RichH

Watched BU-LU, they are well coached and athletic. Pards at 4-5 schollies? Even Cross is better funded. Everyone else is fully or darn close to it.
Bogus Megapardus

Pards down 6-1 at the half.

Today, Lafayette College seems to determined to demonstrate how bad it really is at lacrosse. This is humiliating.

FYI Rogalski is going up and down the roster at FO.  Everyone is getting a chance this afternoon.
Bogus Megapardus

RichH wrote:
Pards at 4-5 schollies?


I'm guessing.  But watching the level of our play, certainly I hope this is not what "fully funded" looks like in Easton.
PardsLax

Pards get 3 goals in first 2 minutes of 2nd half.  I guess that's what FO wins can do for you.
Bogus Megapardus

It's shocking I tell you, just shocking, what we can do when we actually win a faceoff.
Bogus Megapardus

Floyd on EMO.
Bogus Megapardus

There's an old lacrosse saying, from way back -

"Randomly dropping the ball for no reason, then stepping aside gingerly to let the other guy have the ball, often leads to unpleasantness."
Bogus Megapardus

There's another old saying -

"Holding your faceoff tryouts mid-season in a live game might prove to be a sign that there is a problem somewhere."
Bogus Megapardus

Still another ancient lacrosse proverb, passed down from the Makers through the generations -

"Losing 12-7 to a school that is fielding its first-ever team, one which consists almost entirely of freshmen, and which has never before won a game, sucks."
Lafalum

Total embarrassment in long year of embarrassments. Who should be held accountable????
Franks Tanks

I don't know why I was surprised by this. We are probably the worst program in D-I lax.
Bogus Megapardus

Lafalum wrote:
Total embarrassment in long year of embarrassments. Who should be held accountable????


Usually I blame Lehigh.  But not this time.

Metropolitan College went out and bought a first rate, experienced coach and recruited fast, athletic, Division 1 sized, fully scholarshiped players.  And still we're probably the only team they'll beat this season.

Lafayette College should stop trying to play lacrosse.  To paraphrase Yoda (or Mr. Miyagi or whoever said it), "Try not.  Either play lacrosse, or no play lacrosse.  There is no try."
ed65

Another way to put the Met (Sargent) College situation is to suggest that BU has found yet another way to game the AI.  I simply do not understand what this school is doing in the PL.  It was a tremendous mistake to let them in.  No baseball, no football.  Athletes in Met College and Sargent College.  What in the hell was Femorich (sorry for the spelling mistake) thinking.  What in the hell is going on in the PL.  Given LC's admission standards and anti-athletics BoT, Admin and Faculty, we are doomed.
Lafalum

ed65 wrote:
Another way to put the Met (Sargent) College situation is to suggest that BU has found yet another way to game the AI.  I simply do not understand what this school is doing in the PL.  It was a tremendous mistake to let them in.  No baseball, no football.  Athletes in Met College and Sargent College.  What in the hell was Femorich (sorry for the spelling mistake) thinking.  What in the hell is going on in the PL.  Given LC's admission standards and anti-athletics BoT, Admin and Faculty, we are doomed.


Every other PL team has admission standards, a BOT, Admin and Faculty, We just have the wrong ones especially a BOT who should demand changes and accountability!!! Playing selected sports at this level is not beyond us without compromising values. Aside from a football win at Lehigh and winning the PL despite a losing record, this year has been a debacle. Soccer with full scholarships didn't make the playoffs just to pick one sport. There is more going on here than just scholarships!! I go back to some accountability. Someone has to do some major table thumping rather than just getting along! If this doesn't change, mark my words the DIV 3 argument will arise again!!
pards4ever

TOTAL HUMILIATION !!!
Bogus Megapardus

"Horrifying" comes to mind as well.  Today was basically like losing to the Albright College JV team.  I trust that Rogalski now gets a short leash.
bison137

RichH wrote:
Everyone else is fully or darn close to it.



Bucknell has less than one lax merit scholarship at the moment.
bison137

ed65 wrote:
Another way to put the Met (Sargent) College situation is to suggest that BU has found yet another way to game the AI.  



I have been told that Boston U's AI is based on the entire school's entering SAT's and GPA's - not that of Sargent students or Metro.   So half of the equation (SAT) is very similar to LC and other PL schools.   I haven't researched the GPA component , but I doubt there are huge differences.


Edit:   Just did some quick research on Sargent College.   Their average 3-part SAT score is 1930 - which is higher than that of Lafayette (or Boston U's overall student body).
Pard4Life

Lafayette Athletics:  Division III at a Division I level
ed65

bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Another way to put the Met (Sargent) College situation is to suggest that BU has found yet another way to game the AI.  



I have been told that Boston U's AI is based on the entire school's entering SAT's and GPA's - not that of Sargent students or Metro.   So half of the equation (SAT) is very similar to LC and other PL schools.   I haven't researched the GPA component , but I doubt there are huge differences.


Edit:   Just did some quick research on Sargent College.   Their average 3-part SAT score is 1930 - which is higher than that of Lafayette (or Boston U's overall student body).


Once again, Bison, a better metric would be the SAT Scores of the LAX Players or other athletes, not the student body.  Also, please explain why the LAX Players are in Sargent College and not in the regular university.  Clearly it is no accident.  While I appreciate the research you do, you seem to want to make excuses for Met College when we all know it was a huge  mistake to bring BU into the league.  That school has absolutely nothing in common with the rest of the colleges in the league.  I suspect most BU alums and students  feel the same way.  

I wonder why this college of 30,000 students does not have a baseball team - in a baseball crazy city like Boston.  They even dropped football many years ago, and now the mens soccer team plays in a mostly empty football stadium.
RichH

Admit to some ambivalence about BU but the crusade here seems a bit overmuch and probably s/b more properly directed inward. 137 has a valid point. Dont BU athletes have to comply with the AI,at least for upcoming classes. The suze of the school rather irrelevant to their sports. Pard failure to beat BU in lax has much more to do with their ability than w BU's size or make up.
seenalot

Agree with the anger of fellow alum and sadly the comments about it not being any (or all that much) to do with what Boston did - its what we don't do.  Was a great day to play lax, decent crowd and all of us seated in the south stands (still snow in home stands) was nice - we spoiled that feeling big time.  My observation:

Our primary face off guys technique is awful - I have never seen a FO specialist in college work so flatfooted.  There were NO clean wins all day.  Yes, I know we lost a good FO recruit 2 years ago but, THIS is plan B?  I also know its not fixable - you just don't find one down the end of the bench.  If we only have 3-4 scholarships we sure as crap ought to spend one here or give up the game.  You can not win without the damn ball.

We cant find the open man - not so much because we aren't looking for him, but because we do not move off the ball, especially on the back side of play when its in tight.  Kevin Lewis and Cory S keep us in for a while in early Q3 by doing some of this, but then Boston wised up and sat on him and we didn't/couldn't/wouldn't adjust.  We just stop moving and started to look at each other.....until we lost the ball.

We turn the ball over via drops....not due to contact or a good check, we just mis-catch and drop at a rate that would be absolutely embarrassing for a high school team.  

I don't care for the clear scheme he uses, but for the most part it worked and didn't cause too many issues.  

Our offensive middies are painfully slow.  As a result whenever the other team breaks out off of one of our multiple gift turnovers we are in deep sheet.  Amazingly Boston did not press this advantage nearly enough.  When they did they scored.

We consistently lose guys on defense.  For the first few games I actually thought the defensive scheme had improved vs. prior years, not sure what the heck happened the past few games.   Or if its just individual break downs over and over again.

Yes, fan were annoyed at BU stalling - but hell, if I were coach, was looking at win #1 AND it was not being called, I might keep doing it too.  Yes, we have a ton of walking wounded including leading scorer, top LSM and kids who clearly helped last year.  But those are all excuses and we just got clubbed by a 1st year team with the #2 or 3 team in the nation coming up.

Jake Hyatt has brass balls and deserves better.  And, we have a few frosh who can play - assuming they don't transfer.

We are backing the bus right up and into the pile of crap Terry left, except I don't have any sense that he's lost the team the way Terry did.   We just seem lost.

PS - I have no clue how we beat Colgate.
pards4ever

lets start at attack....Lewis shots are too weak...i would put him in the crease...need orazetti to shoot more...and dodge more...round has to stop taking bad shots and turning the ball over....middies..floyds shooting percentage the worst in D1,,,shereale is only spot up shooter...every other middie is a non factor...D works hard because we never have the ball...FOGO....we dont have one...sorry to be so honest...
bison137

ed65 wrote:
bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Another way to put the Met (Sargent) College situation is to suggest that BU has found yet another way to game the AI.  



I have been told that Boston U's AI is based on the entire school's entering SAT's and GPA's - not that of Sargent students or Metro.   So half of the equation (SAT) is very similar to LC and other PL schools.   I haven't researched the GPA component , but I doubt there are huge differences.


Edit:   Just did some quick research on Sargent College.   Their average 3-part SAT score is 1930 - which is higher than that of Lafayette (or Boston U's overall student body).


Once again, Bison, a better metric would be the SAT Scores of the LAX Players or other athletes, not the student body.  Also, please explain why the LAX Players are in Sargent College and not in the regular university.  Clearly it is no accident.  While I appreciate the research you do, you seem to want to make excuses for Met College when we all know it was a huge  mistake to bring BU into the league.  That school has absolutely nothing in common with the rest of the colleges in the league.  I suspect most BU alums and students  feel the same way.  



I do NOT want to make excuses for Met College and I think that is an unfair statement not backed by any facts at all.   What I do want to do is introduce facts into the discussion - something that has not happened on a number of occasions.

As for SAT scores of athletes, that is not published data - unless the schools release their NCAA recertification study which most do not.   However we do know that the Boston U lax players will be bound by the same AI as is Lafayette - and the difference in the floor will not be large.

As for Sargent College, I don't know why many lax players go there, although it likely has to do with the majors offered.   I do know that the average SAT at Sargent is higher than the average SAT at Lafayette and some other PL schools, so

Finally, I have been on record since Boston U was admitted to the PL that I think it is a bad fit and a bad decision by the league.    Much bigger school with different academic goals and more money to throw at sports.   Not a bad school, just different.
pards4ever

i hate to be so harsh...but we need to fix our offense...everything is run thru the midfield....throw the ball out and let the kids play!!!!! we never have any unsettled goals...every goal we get the boys have to work extra hard for...when a  long pole comes down we always slow it down WHY????? GO TO THE CAGE!!!!! why let the D get ready??? sorry im just venting
bison137

[quote="bison137:39877"]
ed65 wrote:
bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Another way to put the Met (Sargent) College situation is to suggest that BU has found yet another way to game the AI.  



I have been told that Boston U's AI is based on the entire school's entering SAT's and GPA's - not that of Sargent students or Metro.   So half of the equation (SAT) is very similar to LC and other PL schools.   I haven't researched the GPA component , but I doubt there are huge differences.


Edit:   Just did some quick research on Sargent College.   Their average 3-part SAT score is 1930 - which is higher than that of Lafayette (or Boston U's overall student body).[/qu

Once again, Bison, a better metric would be the SAT Scores of the LAX Players or other athletes, not the student body.  Also, please explain why the LAX Players are in Sargent College and not in the regular university.  Clearly it is no accident.  While I appreciate the research you do, you seem to want to make excuses for Met College when we all know it was a huge  mistake to bring BU into the league.  That school has absolutely nothing in common with the rest of the colleges in the league.  I suspect most BU alums and students  feel the same way.  



I do NOT want to make excuses for Met College and I think that is an unfair statement not backed by any facts at all.   What I do want to do is introduce facts into the discussion - something that has not happened on a number of occasions.

As for SAT scores of athletes, that is not published data - unless the schools release their NCAA recertification study which most do not.   However we do know that the Boston U lax players will be bound by the same AI as is Lafayette - and the difference in the floor will not be large.

As for Sargent College, I don't know why many lax players go there, although it likely has to do with the majors offered.   I do know that the average SAT at Sargent is higher than the average SAT at Lafayette and some other PL schools, so

Finally, I have been on record since Boston U was admitted to the PL that I think it is a bad fit and a bad decision by the league.    Much bigger school with different academic goals and more money to throw at sports.   Not a bad school, just different.




Following up on the above, I just looked at the Boston U lacrosse roster.   Out of 40 players, they have ONE who is in Sargent College and NONE in Metropolitan College.   Most have normal majors, including engineers, finance, economics, etc.   So it appears the Sargent/Metro references don't belong in the lac discussion.
Bogus Megapardus

pards4ever wrote:
i hate to be so harsh...but we need to fix our offense...everything is run thru the midfield....throw the ball out and let the kids play!!!!! we never have any unsettled goals...every goal we get the boys have to work extra hard for...when a  long pole comes down we always slow it down WHY????? GO TO THE CAGE!!!!! why let the D get ready??? sorry im just venting
 

I counted just one unsettled goal yesterday and that was on the rare FO win.
Bogus Megapardus

seenalot wrote:
Our primary face off guys technique is awful - I have never seen a FO specialist in college work so flatfooted.  There were NO clean wins all day.  Yes, I know we lost a good FO recruit 2 years ago but, THIS is plan B?  I also know its not fixable - you just don't find one down the end of the bench.  If we only have 3-4 scholarships we sure as crap ought to spend one here or give up the game.  You can not win without the damn ball.


I saw at least four different guys - possibly five - who took FO yesterday afternoon for the Pards.
Bogus Megapardus

bison137 wrote:
So it appears the Sargent/Metro references don't belong in the lac discussion.


They do to me.  And I intend to keep pushing it, FWIW.

That said, yesterday's shameful display is all on us.  I don't care who is the opponent; if we simply drop balls for no reason, never win a faceoff, can barely clear the ball, can't prevent a clear, and double (or triple) pump every shot - we'll lose.

We have Jake Hyatt - and then everyone else.  Hyatt deserves MUCH better.
The Maroon


Following up on the above, I just looked at the Boston U lacrosse roster.   Out of 40 players, they have ONE who is in Sargent College and NONE in Metropolitan College.   Most have normal majors, including engineers, finance, economics, etc.   So it appears the Sargent/Metro references don't belong in the lac discussion.


I couldn't imagine having the kind of time you do...
bison137

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
bison137 wrote:
So it appears the Sargent/Metro references don't belong in the lac discussion.


They do to me.  And I intend to keep pushing it, FWIW.




With no lax players at Metro and only one at Sargent ( a school with higher SAT scores than LC), why do those schools matter when it comes to lax?  If anything they may matter even less since many of their frosh were not subject to the AI but all future recruits will be.

I agree that Metropolitan College is relevant to basketball.   No idea about other sports.

In any event, the AI is going to have a significant effect on Boston U's sports over the next five years.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
ed65

bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
bison137 wrote:
ed65 wrote:
Another way to put the Met (Sargent) College situation is to suggest that BU has found yet another way to game the AI.  



I have been told that Boston U's AI is based on the entire school's entering SAT's and GPA's - not that of Sargent students or Metro.   So half of the equation (SAT) is very similar to LC and other PL schools.   I haven't researched the GPA component , but I doubt there are huge differences.


Edit:   Just did some quick research on Sargent College.   Their average 3-part SAT score is 1930 - which is higher than that of Lafayette (or Boston U's overall student body).


Once again, Bison, a better metric would be the SAT Scores of the LAX Players or other athletes, not the student body.  Also, please explain why the LAX Players are in Sargent College and not in the regular university.  Clearly it is no accident.  While I appreciate the research you do, you seem to want to make excuses for Met College when we all know it was a huge  mistake to bring BU into the league.  That school has absolutely nothing in common with the rest of the colleges in the league.  I suspect most BU alums and students  feel the same way.  



I do NOT want to make excuses for Met College and I think that is an unfair statement not backed by any facts at all.   What I do want to do is introduce facts into the discussion - something that has not happened on a number of occasions.

As for SAT scores of athletes, that is not published data - unless the schools release their NCAA recertification study which most do not.   However we do know that the Boston U lax players will be bound by the same AI as is Lafayette - and the difference in the floor will not be large.

As for Sargent College, I don't know why many lax players go there, although it likely has to do with the majors offered.   I do know that the average SAT at Sargent is higher than the average SAT at Lafayette and some other PL schools, so

Finally, I have been on record since Boston U was admitted to the PL that I think it is a bad fit and a bad decision by the league.    Much bigger school with different academic goals and more money to throw at sports.   Not a bad school, just different.


Bison: I'm glad you agree that BU does not belong in the PL.  

As I said, the only real AI comparison is the scores of athletes.  The student body scores are meaningless.
ed65

"I do NOT want to make excuses for Met College and I think that is an unfair statement not backed by any facts at all.   What I do want to do is introduce facts into the discussion - something that has not happened on a number of occasions."

Bison: I am all for introducing facts into the conversation.  After all, you seem to have access to them.  However, the facts need to be relevant, and the SAT Scores of the student body are not necessarily predictive of the student athletes.  I really don't care that players' numbers are not available.  Please don't try to support your argument with facts that are not relevant to the discussion.  My apologies for belaboring this point because I really do not want to prolong this discussion.  The real point remains that BU does not belong in the PL.  Also, it is quite true that LC Lax is simply not competitive in this league.  As you very well know, there are a host of reasons for that and fortunately it is not the fault of the players.

I look forward to your generally informative posts on this board.
PardsLax

Regardless of differences in scholarships and test scores, the simple fact is that we lost to a team of freshmen and a program playing their first year of DI college lacrosse.  This is not Maryland's or Syracuse's freshmen class.  And we had plenty of motivation to remain in the running for a spot in the PL playoffs.
bison137

ed65 wrote:
"I do NOT want to make excuses for Met College and I think that is an unfair statement not backed by any facts at all.   What I do want to do is introduce facts into the discussion - something that has not happened on a number of occasions."

Bison: I am all for introducing facts into the conversation.  After all, you seem to have access to them.  However, the facts need to be relevant, and the SAT Scores of the student body are not necessarily predictive of the student athletes.  I really don't care that players' numbers are not available.  Please don't try to support your argument with facts that are not relevant to the discussion.  My apologies for belaboring this point because I really do not want to prolong this discussion.  The real point remains that BU does not belong in the PL.  



First, I agree that Boston U is a poor fit for the PL.   However the scores of the student body definitely ARE relevant since that (plus GPA's) is what determines the Academic Index for each school and thus determines what athletes can be admitted.   Going forward, given Boston U's average SAT, they cannot admit weak students and that may have a significant effect on their recruiting in some sports.
ed65

Bison: I'll debate this with you until the cows come home: it is the SATs of the athletes that matters not the student body.  That said, your point about the overall SATs determining the AI is appropriate - I did not know that, and as I've said in the past you are providing a service in education me (us) in this arcane statistical nonsense.  Like you, I like to see facts as opposed to opinions.

Alls this is where LC seems to be at a mathematical disadvantage given the smallest in the PL size of the school.  Again, I simply don't understand was Femorich (sp) was doing in bringing in Met and Loyola Somehere in Baltimore. It certainly should force LC to rethink admissions standards, recruiting, coaching etc if we want to start winning in the league and OOC.  At least I hope so.  As many of us feel, it is time for the Admin, Faculty and BoT to get with the program whether they like it or not.

I hope you are right about Met sports having to salute to the AI in the future.  What a joke their teams are at the moment, especially mens hoops.
bison137

ed65 wrote:
Bison: I'll debate this with you until the cows come home: it is the SATs of the athletes that matters not the student body.  That said, your point about the overall SATs determining the AI is appropriate - I did not know that, and as I've said in the past you are providing a service in education me (us) in this arcane statistical nonsense.  Like you, I like to see facts as opposed to opinions.

I hope you are right about Met sports having to salute to the AI in the future.  What a joke their teams are at the moment, especially mens hoops.



Yes, it is the SAT's of the athletes that matter - but since the SAT's of the athletes are pegged to the SAT's of the student body, then the SAT's of the student body are clearly relevant.  Glad to see you've recognized that.   As mentioned before, Boston U's AI will only be a bit below that of LC etc, so there should be some equalization over time.   Even now, I don't think the issue in lax is anywhere close to what it is in hoops.  

What is more relevant imo is the amount of money that Boston U has to throw at sports.   Even in their first year of lacrosse, I am sure they are giving out more lax scholarship money than are Lafayette, Bucknell, or Holy Cross across four classes of players.    By the end of Boston U's  fourth year, I think they will be giving out about 12.5 scholarships overall - which will be 11.5 more than Bucknell and also a lot more than LC or HC.
ed65

I have no more to say on this subject.  Bison has made his point; I have made mine.  I just hope he is correct that BU "comes back to the pack" so to speak.  In the meantime, until the current BU clown class graduates, I won't bother to watch them slaughter the Pards.
bison137

ed65 wrote:
I have no more to say on this subject.  Bison has made his point; I have made mine.  I just hope he is correct that BU "comes back to the pack" so to speak.  In the meantime, until the current BU clown class graduates, I won't bother to watch them slaughter the Pards.



Note that we have no idea of the academics of the Boston U lax players - and this thread is about lax.   Many have good majors and had good academics in high school.   None of the 40 are in Metropolitan College.    As far as I know, there is no reason to disparage their lacrosse players.    When it comes to men's basketball, that is a different story.  And when it comes to funding, that is also a different story.

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