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       Lafayette Sports Fan Forum Forum Index -> Men's Basketball
bethlehempard

Well there's always basketball! 2016-17 previews start

CBS sports ranks Lafayette No. 342 of 351. Ahead of Grambling, Florida A&M, Alabama A&M, Delaware State, CCSU, Central Arkansas, Savannah State, AR-Pine Bluff and Chicago State.
Behind .... well behind everybody else. Including my new favorite, Incarnate Word. Go Cardinals!

http://www.cbssports.com/college-...-351-college-basketball-rankings/

342. Lafayette
A six-win team a season ago, I'm thinking the Leopards can be better, but need to see them prove it. Man, it gets depressing once this list hits the 340s. Dark, really.

Yeah. Really!
pardfan

Things have never been worse when it comes to Lafayette athletics.  It tarnishes the College's reputation;  I'm certain of that.
Kpard

Nowhere to go but up! Rolling Eyes
CHIP72

It's an opportunity to switch the discussion from "Frank Tavani has been at Lafayette too long and needs to go" to "Fran O'Hanlon has been at Lafayette too long and needs to go".
bethlehempard

Picked ninth in the PL:

http://collegebasketball.nbcsport...looks-to-end-unpredictable-trend/

These predictions are mostly based on last year. Maybe there will be a big improvement. There is only so much Nick can do despite his will and talent.

A note on Michael Hoffman's new team:

http://www.themonitor.com/sports/...-8916-11e6-8f2d-ef052e36179e.html

MBB is getting close to two decades without consecutive winning seasons.
1998-99
1999-00
pardfan

CHIP72 wrote:
It's an opportunity to switch the discussion from "Frank Tavani has been at Lafayette too long and needs to go" to "Fran O'Hanlon has been at Lafayette too long and needs to go".


I don't think we REALLY have the money necessary to clean house and wind up with coaches and an AD capable of competing IN THIS LEAGUE in the major sports.  We're stuck with these guys.
ed65

pardfan wrote:
CHIP72 wrote:
It's an opportunity to switch the discussion from "Frank Tavani has been at Lafayette too long and needs to go" to "Fran O'Hanlon has been at Lafayette too long and needs to go".


I don't think we REALLY have the money necessary to clean house and wind up with coaches and an AD capable of competing IN THIS LEAGUE in the major sports.  We're stuck with these guys.


Totally disagree.  You must have inside information.
SixtyEighter

I have more faith that Fran can turn his team around than I do that Tavani can.Tavani is in denial.He believes the team can win if only pushed and guided.
LC Fan

That's like comparing an onion with a scallion. They both stink.
bethlehempard

Another basement prediction:

http://www.midmajormadness.com/20...nkings-lehigh-bucknell-holy-cross
CHIP72

My 2 cents about Fran O'Hanlon (who I've always liked) is that he did a really good job for about his first decade or so on College Hill, with the high point obviously being those back-to-back NCAA Tournament appearances in 1999 and 2000.  But since about the mid-2000s, O'Hanlon's teams have either achieved as expected or underachieved, increasingly often the latter; it was the opposite prior to that.  Even two years ago (2014-2015), the Leopards were expected to win the Patriot League but only went 9-9 in league play in the regular season before getting on a hot streak in the PL Tournament to earn the NCAA Tournament berth and (IMO) salvage what had been a disappointing season.  It was no surprise Lafayette struggled last year because they had a young team; the disappointing thing was just how poor the Leopards were.

Fran O'Hanlon did a fine job at Lafayette for a few years, and all Leopards fans should appreciate where he took Lafayette basketball early on in his tenure.  But much like Frank Tavani (who also did a good job his first few seasons on College Hill), O'Hanlon has probably overstayed his welcome by a few years.
seenalot

Coaching is a tough profession.  Like being CEO.  But you can not keep losing and losing and losing - and simply point to a few good years, being a decent guy and running a "clean and respectable program" ANYWHERE else on this or any other planet and expect to keep coming back.  Those are table stakes - except for some unknown reason we can not figure that out....

So we have two head coaches and an AD who seemingly have jobs for life.  Would be like the CEO of a major retail operation who had no plan for the web or on line sales......nah, who needs to change with the times.  Lets keep getting big offensive lineman who can not move, coaches without an iota of imagination or the ability to coach them up, skinning kids who can shoot but not plan defense or rebound and expect success. Carney had it right, this is moronic and I am done being a dope that supports it.
Andy

CHIP72 wrote:
My 2 cents about Fran O'Hanlon (who I've always liked) is that he did a really good job for about his first decade or so on College Hill, with the high point obviously being those back-to-back NCAA Tournament appearances in 1999 and 2000.  But since about the mid-2000s, O'Hanlon's teams have either achieved as expected or underachieved, increasingly often the latter; it was the opposite prior to that.  Even two years ago (2014-2015), the Leopards were expected to win the Patriot League but only went 9-9 in league play in the regular season before getting on a hot streak in the PL Tournament to earn the NCAA Tournament berth and (IMO) salvage what had been a disappointing season.  It was no surprise Lafayette struggled last year because they had a young team; the disappointing thing was just how poor the Leopards were.

Fran O'Hanlon did a fine job at Lafayette for a few years, and all Leopards fans should appreciate where he took Lafayette basketball early on in his tenure.  But much like Frank Tavani (who also did a good job his first few seasons on College Hill), O'Hanlon has probably overstayed his welcome by a few years.


Gee, chip, do think playing in a scholarship league w/out scholarships had anything to do with LC basketball performance?  Fran's first schol class(full recruiting cycle) was 2007,  3 per year.  Since 2009 he's been in the finals 4 times and semis once. His championship is 2 years old, long enough for you to diminish it, I guess.  Clearly, when Fran has had a level playing field (before and with scholarships) he's had terrific tournament success, which is what I value.
CHIP72

Andy wrote:
CHIP72 wrote:
My 2 cents about Fran O'Hanlon (who I've always liked) is that he did a really good job for about his first decade or so on College Hill, with the high point obviously being those back-to-back NCAA Tournament appearances in 1999 and 2000.  But since about the mid-2000s, O'Hanlon's teams have either achieved as expected or underachieved, increasingly often the latter; it was the opposite prior to that.  Even two years ago (2014-2015), the Leopards were expected to win the Patriot League but only went 9-9 in league play in the regular season before getting on a hot streak in the PL Tournament to earn the NCAA Tournament berth and (IMO) salvage what had been a disappointing season.  It was no surprise Lafayette struggled last year because they had a young team; the disappointing thing was just how poor the Leopards were.

Fran O'Hanlon did a fine job at Lafayette for a few years, and all Leopards fans should appreciate where he took Lafayette basketball early on in his tenure.  But much like Frank Tavani (who also did a good job his first few seasons on College Hill), O'Hanlon has probably overstayed his welcome by a few years.


Gee, chip, do think playing in a scholarship league w/out scholarships had anything to do with LC basketball performance?  Fran's first schol class(full recruiting cycle) was 2007,  3 per year.  Since 2009 he's been in the finals 4 times and semis once. His championship is 2 years old, long enough for you to diminish it, I guess.  Clearly, when Fran has had a level playing field (before and with scholarships) he's had terrific tournament success, which is what I value.


If you are going to base a team's success on what it does in a 3 or 4 game postseason tournament, be my guest.  However, like most logical people, I'm going to base my assessment of Lafayette basketball - and every other college basketball team I follow - on what they do for the entire season.  And Lafayette's regular season results have generally been lacking for most of the last decade, relative to reasonable preseason expectations.  They've finished above .500 in Patriot League play three times (if one includes PL Tournament games; excluding those games the number of occurrences drops to twice) and above 3rd place in the Patriot League once since 2003-04.
Andy

CHIP72 wrote:
Andy wrote:
CHIP72 wrote:
My 2 cents about Fran O'Hanlon (who I've always liked) is that he did a really good job for about his first decade or so on College Hill, with the high point obviously being those back-to-back NCAA Tournament appearances in 1999 and 2000.  But since about the mid-2000s, O'Hanlon's teams have either achieved as expected or underachieved, increasingly often the latter; it was the opposite prior to that.  Even two years ago (2014-2015), the Leopards were expected to win the Patriot League but only went 9-9 in league play in the regular season before getting on a hot streak in the PL Tournament to earn the NCAA Tournament berth and (IMO) salvage what had been a disappointing season.  It was no surprise Lafayette struggled last year because they had a young team; the disappointing thing was just how poor the Leopards were.

Fran O'Hanlon did a fine job at Lafayette for a few years, and all Leopards fans should appreciate where he took Lafayette basketball early on in his tenure.  But much like Frank Tavani (who also did a good job his first few seasons on College Hill), O'Hanlon has probably overstayed his welcome by a few years.


Gee, chip, do think playing in a scholarship league w/out scholarships had anything to do with LC basketball performance?  Fran's first schol class(full recruiting cycle) was 2007,  3 per year.  Since 2009 he's been in the finals 4 times and semis once. His championship is 2 years old, long enough for you to diminish it, I guess.  Clearly, when Fran has had a level playing field (before and with scholarships) he's had terrific tournament success, which is what I value.


If you are going to base a team's success on what it does in a 3 or 4 game postseason tournament, be my guest.  However, like most logical people, I'm going to base my assessment of Lafayette basketball - and every other college basketball team I follow - on what they do for the entire season.  And Lafayette's regular season results have generally been lacking for most of the last decade, relative to reasonable preseason expectations.  They've finished above .500 in Patriot League play three times (if one includes PL Tournament games; excluding those games the number of occurrences drops to twice) and above 3rd place in the Patriot League once since 2003-04.


Like anyone with any sense, I believe that the goal in NCAA basketball is to get to the Big Dance. The coach who has his team peaking at tournament time is the one with the best chance of fulfilling his kids' dream.  Fran is a master at this.

Once again chipster you cite LC basketball stats from 2003 forward w/out referencing the fact that Fran was forced to play w/out scholarships in a scholarship league and, of course, you give no recognition to 4 trips to the league final in 6 years. Amazing! Give Brett Reed a hug for me, will ya.
kramer

Wow, it's pretty negative around here.  Looking forward to the season starting, and seeing how Lehigh and Lafayette stock up against each other.  Should be fun (at least in Bethlehem).
bethlehempard

It hasn't been much fun from my vantage point in Bethlehem. We will see how Kempton does.
Andy

Two seasons away from the 20 win championship season, we've had an almost complete roster turnover. Looks like 11 fr and sophs, with only 11 scholarship players total. Not expecting much, but will be fun to watch them develop and see what we've got.  And will enjoy watching a great competitor in Lindner.

Kempton was a legacy recruit, correct?  We failed to land ours - Chris McNaughton, a game changer of course.
bison137

Andy wrote:


Kempton was a legacy recruit, correct?  



Kempton's dad played for Notre Dame.  Did he have a more distant relative who went to Lehigh?
Andy

bison137 wrote:
Andy wrote:


Kempton was a legacy recruit, correct?  



Kempton's dad played for Notre Dame.  Did he have a more distant relative who went to Lehigh?


Too many recruiting articles in the attic, along with the toys. Thanks for answering the question.  A valid criticism of Fran though, not signing that special recruit who might give us a chance against the bigger boys.  Kempton quoted that LUs win over Duke "put them on the map" for him. He was not highly recruited however. Great job by the LU assistant.
SixtyEighter

The Mountain Hawks also found McCullum and others. We don't get any of these types of players that Bucknell also recruits.They are sometimes guys who are projects that are not well recruited or well recognized players who are heavily recruited that we lose to others head to head.Fran does have good years and bad years recruiting.He does not get consistency year in and year out like Lehigh and Bucknell.
Kpard

The transfers out of the program and also the kids that give up baskeball altogether are puzzling. Fran has always been the best at making chicken salad from chicken $#!t. I just wish we could recruit some chicken cordon bleu for a change.
We have apparently gone all in on this freshman class so we'll see how they progress.
adcs2

Who gave up basketball altogether?  Barlow?
Kpard

Sorry, I don't remember the kids names. We had a 6-10 kid from NC who came to campus and never saw the floor and another Sophomore center from Minn who left. I believe the kid from Minn had a family illness and went back to MN to be closer to family.
adcs2

Krueser went back to Minn. He did play some D3 or NAIA basketball out there.  Not sure who the NC kid you are referring to.

Barlow is rostered for Blinn JC and Hoffman will be eligible for some UT affiliate that is D-I.  Haven't done well retaining the kids from Texas.  Sure hope Evans stays.
Kpard

Peter Daaleman?
bison137

Kpard wrote:
Sorry, I don't remember the kids names. We had a 6-10 kid from NC who came to campus and never saw the floor and another Sophomore center from Minn who left. I believe the kid from Minn had a family illness and went back to MN to be closer to family.


J.d. Pelham was a 6-10 kid from NC.  However he played all four years. Just wasn't very good.
bison137

Kpard wrote:
Peter Daaleman?


Daaleman fits the description.  But he was a walk-on and few expected him to ever be a contributor.
bethlehempard

Lafayette is ninth in the league's preseason poll, ahead of Army.
Lehigh is first.

http://www.patriotleague.org/news/2016/10/26/MBB_1026164623.aspx
Kpard

bison137 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
Peter Daaleman?


Daaleman fits the description.  But he was a walk-on and few expected him to ever be a contributor.


I have no inside information nor do I follow this as closely as some of you. I guess I'm just naive when the school's basketball program states that an individual has been added to an incoming recruiting class. I assume that means he's a potential D1 player, the kid has had discussion and met with the coaches, has agreed to come to the college, enrolled, moved in, and is attending classes and practicing with and is part of the team.
bethlehempard

A contrarian view: BU, Loyola. Only the top two picks are listed. Thus no prediction for Lafayette, aka "Nick and four guys."
Video:

https://campusinsiders.com/videos...gue-2016-2017-basketball-preview/
adcs2

CI did pick BU as #1 but didn't choose Loyola as #2, just called them a "surprise team".

PL making it difficult for outlets like this as they scaled back from a PL Media Day at SteelStacks to a phone-in media day like the Ivy League.
Kpard

adcs2 wrote:
CI did pick BU as #1 but didn't choose Loyola as #2, just called them a "surprise team".

PL making it difficult for outlets like this as they scaled back from a PL Media Day at SteelStacks to a phone-in media day like the Ivy League.


We've got one of the top 3 pt shooters from TX and the Eastern PA conference POY. The Evans kid seems to be a player. Let's see what FOH can do with these puppies.
Andy

Kpard wrote:
adcs2 wrote:
CI did pick BU as #1 but didn't choose Loyola as #2, just called them a "surprise team".

PL making it difficult for outlets like this as they scaled back from a PL Media Day at SteelStacks to a phone-in media day like the Ivy League.


We've got one of the top 3 pt shooters from TX and the Eastern PA conference POY. The Evans kid seems to be a player. Let's see what FOH can do with these puppies.


The informed opinion this weekend was that so far and following the scrimmage vs Rider - Myles Cherry has been impressive.
Kpard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-VG7Kuj--4

No specifics here.
bethlehempard

NCAA.com preview

Lafayette is in that room in Animal House with Samuel, Clayton and Muhammed. No attention paid.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketba...view-breaking-down-patriot-league

Colgate and Langel are discussed. Our crew, Nick and Four Guys, no.
The goal is, what? Will 10 wins be considered a great success?
This is absurd.
NewXbo

Scrimmage at Rider a couple of weeks ago. Scrimmage at Kirby this weekend, Stout and Dunkem not dressed.
Kpard

Great! Here we go already!
Mad  Confused
adcs2

Morning Call article following pre-season luncheon.  Not sure if the Distressed-Times was there ...

http://www.mcall.com/sports/baske...-preview-2016-20161106-story.html
bethlehempard

Sagarin has Lafayette at No. 306. That's the lowest of the Patriots and Ivies.
Of course, we are rebuilding (from a six-win season). And we are a young team. And our guys are learning to play at Division 1. And the league is relatively strong this year. And there's the distraction of a study. And some important guys are coming back from injuries. And .........
SixtyEighter

I could find no TV or streaming for either game tonight but it appears that either the MAAC or Rider or ST.Peter's will sell the stream on MAACTV.
bethlehempard

The stats feed is up (scroll down through the menu, lousy page layout):

http://www.saintpeterspeacocks.co...16-17/boxscores/20161114_z3uq.xml

St. Peter's, where Tom Best transferred.
Kpard

bethlehempard wrote:
The stats feed is up (scroll down through the menu, lousy page layout):

http://www.saintpeterspeacocks.co...16-17/boxscores/20161114_z3uq.xml

St. Peter's, where Tom Best transferred.


This game must feel like slow motion compared to Friday night. For a team of shooters, according to FOH, we have not shot the 3 ball well at all yet.
bethlehempard

SPU 26-25 at the half. It's a game. Lafayette has a rebounding edge. FT and 3 shooting is off. TOs are the difference.

LAFAYETTE. SAINT PETER'S
10 TEAM FOULS 8
25 POINTS 26
10 OF 20 (50.0%) FIELD GOALS (%) 9 OF 26 (34.6%)
1 OF 5 (20.0%) 3-POINT FGS (%) 2 OF 12 (16.7%)
4 OF 9 (44.4%) FREE THROWS (%) 6 OF 10 (60.0%)
9 TURNOVERS 4
4 PTS OFF TO 12
17 TOTAL REB 13
0 OFF. REB 2
17 DEF. REB 11
6 ASSISTS 4
2 BLOCKS 0
0 STEALS 4
10 FOULS 8
4 BENCH POINTS 11
0 SECOND CHANCE POINTS 2
8 POINTS IN THE PAINT 10
4 FAST BREAK POINTS 0
NewXbo

We are not taking care of the ball.
Andy

How'bout that comeback!
Kpard

A win is a win. If we shoot better, 19% From 3, who knows what we can do.

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