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carney2

William & Mary Post Mortem

I missed this one due to a serious medical problem.  Need some up close and personal from those who were there.  Gary, Mike and I agree that this was much better than the score might indicate.  Lots of positives to build on.

Your turn.
Bogus Megapardus

Hope things are OK with you, carney2.
carney2

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Hope things are OK with you, carney2.


Thanks.  On the mend, but may miss the Princeton game too.
Bogus Megapardus

Positives:

RBs Brown and Mayfield
TE DePietro
WR Mrazek
Freshmen OL (all things considered)
K Bissell & P Forrester
QB Searfoss

EDIT - Also RB Gruden (in limited snaps)

Negatives:

DBs Parham and Jones
LBs other than Bencsko
WRs Franzese & Palumbo
DL pressure in general
Bogus Megapardus

Also - did we have an actual game plan for W&M?  If so, what was it?
Bogus Megapardus

Can we please get into the QB issue to start here?  What happened?  Was Drew Reed benched?  Why?
Pard4Life

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Also - did we have an actual game plan for W&M?  If so, what was it?


Ditto on that. We looked clueless on defense.

We were not overmatched at all. OL played well and we had a good ground game.  Searfoss played ok except for those awful INTs and a few ill advised throws.

Defense was a joke!!!  This unit was bragging about being the best around etc and they got lit up by an average (good) team. How many times were we beat deep? LBs not covering. Third and long conversions. Looked like a John Loose defense out there.

The INT when we pushed them around in the first was killer. Felt the air go out of the game. Should have been 7-0 us and a few plays later it's 7-0 them.

And that fourth and one FG down by 17 to start the fourth was a joke. An example of how Frank can't coach. He can of course but stuff like this shows you why he can't reach the top echelon. Why are you kicking a FG down by 17, inside the 10, and your defense has forced two punts the enite game on an offense that had eaten the clock. Why? Why? Sure you make it, down 14, but we did not stop them the entire game.

Those third and short failures were predictable and more of the same from this staff (not the team, the staff... can't tell you how many of those identical plays get shut down each year). Part of the reason why we lost.

My take:

QB: C+
WR: B -
OL: B+
RB: B+

DL: C+
LB: D
DB: F
Pard4Life

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Can we please get into the QB issue to start here?  What happened?  Was Drew Reed benched?  Why?


Don't think so. Think it's just wise guy talk.
carney2

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Can we please get into the QB issue to start here?  What happened?  Was Drew Reed benched?  Why?


Word on the in-game thread was that he has been suspended, probably for 4 games.  No reason given.  There never is.  Given that it's Lafayette, he was probably caught watching a beer commercial on a preseason NFL broadcast.
Zeus

Lafayette is always going to play a tough schedule, get over it.  A lot of other teams in the league don't do that, so there are enough team to root for if beating up on bad teams is your fancy.

Lafayette's D lost a lot of good players early in this one, and that probably had a lot to do with things.. and #7 is very, very good.

OL looks better than everyone thought.
Brown and Mayfield will be OK.
R.P and M.M are a pretty good WR combo.

Defense needs to get healthy.
Bogus Megapardus

Zeus wrote:
Lafayette is always going to play a tough schedule, get over it.  A lot of other teams in the league don't do that, so there are enough team to root for if beating up on bad teams is your fancy.


Yep - Bucknell beats up on Marist; Lehigh pretty much coasts through CConn; Holy Cross handles Monmouth.

Then again, Fordham beats Army (and deservedly so if you watched the game).  Colgate takes on Navy but is overmatched.

Georgetown, of course, gets pummeled by a St. Francis team that probably had several metric tons on them - but who's counting?
carney2

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Also - did we have an actual game plan for W&M?  If so, what was it?


On offense it was obviously short, quick passes so that our inexperienced O-line wouldn't be tested.  On defense your guess is as good as mine, but when injuries forced Roberts to corner and the middle was manned by "rookies," the floodgates opened.
Bogus Megapardus

Do you guys think that Reed would have found open receivers faster that Searfoss?  If so, who were they?

Blake make a couple of ill-advised throws but in general he made good reads and he got the ball out fast.  Maybe not as fast as Drew but he wasn't hesitating.  

The offensive game plan, on the other hand, didn't take advantage of our strengths (blocking on screens; crossing patterns; TE/SLOT in the seam; misdirection in the backfield) and provided fodder for our weaknesses (soft OL push on inside runs; lack of WR speed/separation and height on post and GO routes; poor YAC potential).

The defensive game plan remains a complete mystery to me.  I mean, WTF?
LC Local Fan

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...ing_qb_drew_ree.html#incart_river
Bogus Megapardus

Bogus Megapardus

LC Local Fan wrote:
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...ing_qb_drew_ree.html#incart_river


"Lafayette head football coach Frank Tavani suspended junior starting quarterback Drew Reed and three other players."

Who are the other three players?
Pard4Life

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
LC Local Fan wrote:
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/l...ing_qb_drew_ree.html#incart_river


"Lafayette head football coach Frank Tavani suspended junior starting quarterback Drew Reed and three other players."

Who are the other three players?


Ugh. Again?

Then again Bruce is probably pleased.
Pard4Life

Zeus wrote:
Lafayette is always going to play a tough schedule, get over it.  A lot of other teams in the league don't do that, so there are enough team to root for if beating up on bad teams is your fancy.

Lafayette's D lost a lot of good players early in this one, and that probably had a lot to do with things.. and #7 is very, very good.

OL looks better than everyone thought.
Brown and Mayfield will be OK.
R.P and M.M are a pretty good WR combo.

Defense needs to get healthy.


It's a tough schedule but we were not out of our league on the field. Thats an excuse for the score. This wasnt NDSU in 2011 or even WM two years ago. There were alot of clueless decisions and schemes though.
Newleopardfan2

Mostly sorry to hear about C2's medical problem but glad you're on the mend. As for today's game, I agree with the consensus: 1) Our OL and offense in general exceeded our expectations except on 3rd down and inside the 20; 2) our D was Disappointing, injuries notwithstanding; 3) the coaching was baffling at times, no more so than on 4th and 1 deep and down by 17; 4) the suspensions are equally baffling and do not seem to be discouraging, year after year, whatever wanton behavior is triggering them; 5) I'll say that special teams gave some reasons for optimism: 4 out of 5 punts (and the snaps and protection that preceded them) were quite good, KO's and the frosh's PAT were respectable, and several KO returns were strong. But, bottom line, we got our *sses whooped and there was little to encourage optimism that the next several games won't be as bad if not worse.
Bogus Megapardus

Pard4Life wrote:
This wasn't NDSU in 2011 or even WM two years ago.


And W&M didn't play the game as if it were some sort of tune up, either.  Next week will be another test.  The Blue Hens can't be pleased to have lost to non-scholarship Jacksonville at home last night.
ELB

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Positives:

RBs Brown and Mayfield
TE DePietro
WR Mrazek
Freshmen OL (all things considered)
K Bissell & P Forrester
QB Searfoss

EDIT - Also RB Gruden (in limited snaps)

Negatives:

DBs Parham and Jones
LBs other than Bencsko
WRs Franzese & Palumbo
DL pressure in general


I don't get it.  You list WR Mrazek as a + but WR Palumbo as a -, yet they each caught 8 passes with similar YPC - I guess you didn't like Palumbo's blocking.
Bogus Megapardus

ELB wrote:
I don't get it.  You list WR Mrazek as a + but WR Palumbo as a -, yet they each caught 8 passes with similar YPC - I guess you didn't like Palumbo's blocking.


You are correct and in retrospect I should not have singled out Palumbo as a negative.
flyfisher

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Positives:

RBs Brown and Mayfield
TE DePietro
WR Mrazek
Freshmen OL (all things considered)
K Bissell & P Forrester
QB Searfoss

EDIT - Also RB Gruden (in limited snaps)

Negatives:

DBs Parham and Jones
LBs other than Bencsko
WRs Franzese & Palumbo
DL pressure in general


Fair accessment.

We missed Parham at corner. Had to play Roberts there.  He is really a safety, and a good one. We also misses Brockman though Benshko filled in well. We got beat in the first half on the deep ball because we blitzed on 3rd and 18 and they picked it up. Kudos to them.
Defense spent a lot of time on the field, especially the 2nd half. W&M was bigger and more depth and they simply wore us down. Does everyone realize we only played 3 DE's in the game until late in the 4th? They did exactly what we thought they would do. They pound it at you and eventually wear you down and they don't make mistakes.

I thought the game was closer than the score but they were definitely the better team. Some good news is we may get both Zataveski and Parham back next week. And maybe Vickers for Princeton.

That will help with the rotations. While we had 2 sacks, we did not get a lot of pressure. Interior D line and De kept linemen off the Lbers and let them make tackles. Bryant was able to roam freely all night.

Tough schedule. Hopefully we get some people back by Princeton
Bogus Megapardus

The replay is up:

http://livestream.com/lafayette/lafayettefootball-15-16

I dread re-watching this game but I feel I'm going to have to - at least the first half.
Andy

Added to the list of positives would be the play of Butler at safety. Big hitter, run stopper.  Hope the shoulder is ok. Powe showed promise as well.

#10 has physical tools but often seemed to be confused as to assignment.

Basically we had 2 of our projected 4 starting DBs playing. Parham didnt dress and Draeland James missed most of the game. Injury?  Roberts played corner after 21 kept getting burned.
carney2

Since we never have information, the repeated suspensions cause mucho confusion in my muddled mind.  Is Frank a great disciplinarian and father figure?  Or, has he just lost sight of the age group he's dealing with?  The only thing I know for certain is that it isn't happening in any other Patriot League programs.  Should we be proud or suspicious?
Franks Tanks

carney2 wrote:
Since we never have information, the repeated suspensions cause mucho confusion in my muddled mind.  Is Frank a great disciplinarian and father figure?  Or, has he just lost sight of the age group he's dealing with?  The only thing I know for certain is that it isn't happening in any other Patriot League programs.  Should we be proud or suspicious?


We shouldn't be proud.  Do the kids not respect Frank?  No idea why prominent players continue to do things that get themselves suspended.  

William & Mary had more talent than us, that is pretty clear.  However I am more concerned about the number of mistakes we continue to make, and the fact that we just don't look like we have a plan all that often.  Fordham lost 18 starters from last year and they didn't miss a beat.  That is a well coached football team.  Football like we saw yesterday will just continue to be the status quo until leadership changes.
flyfisher

carney2 wrote:
Since we never have information, the repeated suspensions cause mucho confusion in my muddled mind.  Is Frank a great disciplinarian and father figure?  Or, has he just lost sight of the age group he's dealing with?  The only thing I know for certain is that it isn't happening in any other Patriot League programs.  Should we be proud or suspicious?


The players at LC do not have different social habits from players at other schools. LC is pretty strict. But everyone knows the rules. Don't blame Frank. He did the right thing. The kids know the rules.

A serious question to ask is why do we have so many injuries each year?
BillS

flyfisher wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Since we never have information, the repeated suspensions cause mucho confusion in my muddled mind.  Is Frank a great disciplinarian and father figure?  Or, has he just lost sight of the age group he's dealing with?  The only thing I know for certain is that it isn't happening in any other Patriot League programs.  Should we be proud or suspicious?


The players at LC do not have different social habits from players at other schools. LC is pretty strict. But everyone knows the rules. Don't blame Frank. He did the right thing. The kids know the rules.

A serious question to ask is why do we have so many injuries each year?
Breaking news : The rest of the Lafayette college Football season is canceled because of suspensions and injuries announcement will come tomorrow morning at a press conference.  Wink
carney2

flyfisher wrote:
The players at LC do not have different social habits from players at other schools. LC is pretty strict. But everyone knows the rules. Don't blame Frank. He did the right thing. The kids know the rules.


Just because they signed a "contract" and said they understand doesn't suddenly make them mature adults.  They are 20 year olds away from home for the first time in their lives.  With this happening only at Lafayette in the Patriot League - and happening repeatedly - I feel justified in asking who is out of step here, Lafayette or the rest of the League.  Someone needs to rethink what's going on.
bison137

carney2 wrote:
 The only thing I know for certain is that it isn't happening in any other Patriot League programs.  Should we be proud or suspicious?



Not exactly true.   Bucknell suspended their best player, Will Carter, who is the most dangerous big-play guy in the league, for at least two games for "violation of team rules".  Also suspended their best CB and best KR.   Not having them available could cost them a game next week.   There were suspensions of key players for violation of team rules last year as well.   Don't know if it's happening at other schools as well.
flyfisher

carney2 wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
The players at LC do not have different social habits from players at other schools. LC is pretty strict. But everyone knows the rules. Don't blame Frank. He did the right thing. The kids know the rules.


Just because they signed a "contract" and said they understand doesn't suddenly make them mature adults.  They are 20 year olds away from home for the first time in their lives.  With this happening only at Lafayette in the Patriot League - and happening repeatedly - I feel justified in asking who is out of step here, Lafayette or the rest of the League.  Someone needs to rethink what's going on.


You have every right to ask that question. Good luck getting an answer. I understand your frustration. My frustration comes from a different area. Why do we have so many injuries? This isn't a 1 year thing. It's a pattern this the reason I question. Is there something we are doing different? I am asking. I don't have an answer.
RichH

There are numerous individual answers but I think the only way to minimize numbers is off season conditioning programs. Some injuries are unavoidable but hamstrings,soft tissue and joint sprains can be lessened. Coen got to hire our S&C coach full time aftet 3 straight years of multiple injuries. He set up individual programs for each played targeted first at flexibilty and joint strength. A large number of players too far from campus worked those programs with pro trainers. We came out of camp with no serious injuries. First game ,a bruised thigh and 2 moderate sprains.
flyfisher

Good point a Rich. Individual plans might be helpful. They may already do this for all I know. Broken bone injuries are one thing. Joint and soft tissue injuries can be impacted.
Tribe4SF

Gonna miss playing you guys. Another great tailgate, and from our side the game was a pleasure.

The Pards aren't alone with injuries. We were missing our starting left guard, our best receiver and kick returner, our top o-line sub, a starting LB, and one of our rotation at DE. Our safety transfer from Temple was also out, although we don't know how much he might have played. During the game we lost CB Aaron Swinton who had the first pick and big kickoff return, and starting left tackle Chris Durant.

I was impressed with LC's physicality on both fronts. Thought your guys played hard. Searfoss, I thought, was better than Reed was last year. He executed that short passing attack very well, and that was a good plan. Throwing downfield with our two safeties is a dangerous proposition.

Now I can say it... GO PARDS!!!

We played no true freshmen in the game. Barring injuries, the plan appears to be to redshirt all 23 of them.
carney2

After reading this morning's Paul Reinhard report in the Mourning Crawl (sorry, no link; I've been shut down unless I subscribe), I have left the dark side (complaining about suspensions) and joined fly in thinking that something needs to be done about the appalling number of injuries.  I know that it's part of the game and every team has some, but at Lafayette it appears that 20 were unavailable for W&M.  That is approaching 25% of the total roster if I read it correctly.  And, as fly points out, this is not a one time wander.  It's an annual thing.

RichH points to conditioning as a cure.  I'm sure that might help, but I hope someone in Bourger is gathering data on what happens to teams that practice and play 100% on the kind of turf we have at Fisher.  Not just artificial turf, but the exact same stuff we are using.  Some schools may have it in the stadium, but not at the practice facility.  That's not a good match for a serious study.  Needs to be done - and soon.

Heartening news from Reinhard:  Frank will "talk to" the suspended players about reinstatement sometime this week.  It may not be the rumored 4 weeks after all, he said with fingers crossed.  No way we contend in the next 3 games without all hands on deck.
bison137

carney2 wrote:


RichH points to conditioning as a cure.  I'm sure that might help, but I hope someone in Bourger is gathering data on what happens to teams that practice and play 100% on the kind of turf we have at Fisher.  Not just artificial turf, but the exact same stuff we are using.  Some schools may have it in the stadium, but not at the practice facility.  That's not a good match for a serious study.  Needs to be done - and soon.




There have been a number of large studies done recently on grass vs 3rd generation field turf.    Some show identical injury risks.   Some show reduced injuries on the artificial turf.   None show more injuries on artificial turf, other than abrasions.   The field turf is not the problem.


Here is a summary of one of those studies, where researchers tracked Texas high school footbal teams for five years:

The rates for minor injuries (those requiring <6 days of recovery) and substantial injuries (7-21 days) were similar for the two field types. However, the rate of severe injury (22+ days) tended to be greater for the grass than FieldTurf. Based on reports of actual injuries, the authors concluded that there is no reason to suggest that football athletes playing on FieldTurf have increased injury risk as compared to playing on natural grass. In fact, there are some indications that the risk for certain injuries (e.g. ACL and concussion) may actually be reduced.

One more:

In a recent presentation, Dr. James Bradley (Head Team Physician for the Pittsburgh Steelers and Clinical Associate Professor, University of Pittsburgh Medical College) reported a marked reduction in ACL injuries during play on FieldTurf compared to grass. The data were collected by the NFL Injury Surveillance System.
Andy

Tribe4SF wrote:
Gonna miss playing you guys. Another great tailgate, and from our side the game was a pleasure.

The Pards aren't alone with injuries. We were missing our starting left guard, our best receiver and kick returner, our top o-line sub, a starting LB, and one of our rotation at DE. Our safety transfer from Temple was also out, although we don't know how much he might have played. During the game we lost CB Aaron Swinton who had the first pick and big kickoff return, and starting left tackle Chris Durant.

I was impressed with LC's physicality on both fronts. Thought your guys played hard. Searfoss, I thought, was better than Reed was last year. He executed that short passing attack very well, and that was a good plan. Throwing downfield with our two safeties is a dangerous proposition.

Now I can say it... GO PARDS!!!

We played no true freshmen in the game. Barring injuries, the plan appears to be to redshirt all 23 of them.


I agree it was a very physical game and I enjoyed that there was little to no extraneous BS, showboating, taunting, etc. you guys have a class program.

Also, just wanted to mention how impressed we were by how the W&M captains handled the coin toss procedure with the Keller family.  Hugs all around from your guys in a very emotional moment for the family.  Just handled impeccably and, again, with much class. Good luck to The Tribe the rest of the way.
flyfisher

Forgive me for not placing much trust in any studies from the NFL. This is the same group that told us for years that concussions and head trauma was not a problem.

Artificial turf may be better than grass. I don't know. I do know it has to be replaced every few years. Also know I have yet to meet a football player other than a kicker that prefers to play on turf over grass. Turf is just about mandatory in certain parts of the country due to weather and at some schools just due to use by multiple teams.
ELB

My take from the game:
Offensive line somewhat overmatched but played admirably to give confidence down the road;
Defensive line greatly outmanned - Tribe OL excellent, large and athletic - look for DL to perform better next week;
Injuries/suspensions definitely figured into the outcome;
Four game changing LC errors or the match would have been more even;
If you are not receiving returnable kicks Smalley et al. lose impact;
At many positions we are on CAA level;
Freshman and Sophomore classes look really strong.
Future is bright and GO PARDS!
Andy

ELB wrote:
look for DL to perform better next week;


You would know better than I, ELB, but it seems 2 tackles are questionable: Mercado (MRI, foot, per The Call); Labudev (injury history), did not appear in 2nd half.

Mrazek, Rocco, DiPietro and Brown were very good. Blake's performance marred by the INTs, of course. OL was as mentioned in the post game, just OK. Failed in short yardage situations and too many presnap penalties. Maybe NZat back this week? OL will improve as season progresses.

Privileged to watch 33 play the game.
whatthefrank?

flyfisher wrote:
Good point a Rich. Individual plans might be helpful. They may already do this for all I know. Broken bone injuries are one thing. Joint and soft tissue injuries can be impacted.


I think Potts does a good job and is up on the latest methods and uses the facilities to the best.  However I am not sure I would say the same for the training staff.  Obviously they can not prevent injuries, but they should be able to minimize and shorten them and from what I have seen that is not the case.  But that is just my opinion  from a 50,000ft view.  But it is worth asking the question
flyfisher

Potts does a good job. Need more of him.
flyfisher

ELB wrote:
My take from the game:
Offensive line somewhat overmatched but played admirably to give confidence down the road;
Defensive line greatly outmanned - Tribe OL excellent, large and athletic - look for DL to perform better next week;
Injuries/suspensions definitely figured into the outcome;
Four game changing LC errors or the match would have been more even;
If you are not receiving returnable kicks Smalley et al. lose impact;
At many positions we are on CAA level;
Freshman and Sophomore classes look really strong.
Future is bright and GO PARDS!


Accurate
Bogus Megapardus

Tribe4SF wrote:
Gonna miss playing you guys. Another great tailgate, and from our side the game was a pleasure.

The Pards aren't alone with injuries. We were missing our starting left guard, our best receiver and kick returner, our top o-line sub, a starting LB, and one of our rotation at DE. Our safety transfer from Temple was also out, although we don't know how much he might have played. During the game we lost CB Aaron Swinton who had the first pick and big kickoff return, and starting left tackle Chris Durant.

I was impressed with LC's physicality on both fronts. Thought your guys played hard. Searfoss, I thought, was better than Reed was last year. He executed that short passing attack very well, and that was a good plan. Throwing downfield with our two safeties is a dangerous proposition.

Now I can say it... GO PARDS!!!

We played no true freshmen in the game. Barring injuries, the plan appears to be to redshirt all 23 of them.


Thanks for all your input here, Tribe 4SF.  Tribe and Pards are off the schedule for now but I really hope we get to play you guys again.  W&M is a first-class program and a very worthy challenge for our Humble Little College on the Hill.  

Now we will face Delaware for a couple and Villanova after that (we're moving on from the four-or-five Ivies-a-year habit).  But W&M vs. Lafayette seems like such a natural fit.  We enjoyed hosting you and we really appreciate the enthusiasm and great sportsmanship displayed by team and by your fans.  We appreciate equally the hospitality our team and fans were shown in Williamsburg.

All that said, if in the future, some day, this becomes an OOC rivalry, I hope for our sake that you're more like Penn than like Princeton. Cool

But for now . . . Go Tribe!  I'll be watching and rooting for you.
Bogus Megapardus

Just now, by sheer happenstance, I had a nice chat with Blake Searfoss's former English teacher from The Hun School.  That boy has his admirers for sure.  Folks are watching.
pardfan

While we all know that Frank's shaky in-game decision-making (going for that field goal down 24-7 in the early fourth quarter is Frankosaurus-y by definition) is baggage the team carries into every season, I will give the guy credit.  These last couple of recruiting classes include some really good football players. When one guy goes down or messes up, there is very little drop-off in talent to the next guy on the depth chart.  Historically, that has not been the case IMO.
 Illinois triumvirate (Brown, Mrazek, Powe) looked particularly good.  Powe reminds me of a defensive back we had within the last ten seasons or so who was tall (for a DB), smart, and tough.  He played practically every down his four yrs...I can't recall the guy's name.  Anyway, Powe looks like he can play.

Found 'im.  Kyle Simmons  freshman on 2008 team   6'0  175    
                                        Powe is 6'1 185
LeopardBall10

pardfan wrote:
Found 'im.  Kyle Simmons  freshman on 2008 team   6'0  175  Powe is 6'1 185

Don't get me wrong, I love Simmons. He is a great guy and played a lot (for some bad teams). But by no means would I equate his skills to those of a scholarship player. Powe may look like Slim in pads, but he should be a lot better.

To touch on the injuries vs suspensions, injuries happen and stronger/more fit players tend to have less of them. But Potts will tell you himself that a player tends to have less injuries when they are playing like competition. I would bet that our # of injuries are mush less playing in-league opponents then when playing the CAAs who have had, until now, bigger stronger, redshirted athletes. A lot of our issues now stem from playing a much younger team. With so many Freshman and Sophomores playing they are not as strong or developed as the players they are facing every game. That strain of "playing up" leads to injury.

The suspensions is what is really problematic. Not because they occur, the occur everywhere and for the same reasons. The Lafayette administration may have a stricter stance on alcohol than some of the other schools we hear about often because of the recent deaths on campus. That leads to some of the issues.

But, for my money the real issues can be traced back to the lack of respect that the players have for Frank. The players see more than he thinks they do. They know that he doesn't work as hard as the other coaches, they know that he is not the one doing any of the recruiting, they know that he isn't the one game planning. So, they put up with him. They let him go on his rants and give his pregame speeches, but no one in that locker room is playing for Frank. And when you don't have the respect of the players you are sure not going to have the discipline/work ethic/"playing above your head" capability that won those early championships.  The players we have seen succeed under Frank's recent leadership are those that are self motivated or get mad at the staff and try to prove them wrong. When was the last time you were really able to say, "Wow that guy really played above his ability" or "Yeah, the coaches really got the most out of that player"? Maybe Fly and some of the other guys with players on the team now can attest or refute.
Andy

So you throw a statement out there that the players don't respect Frank and then ask for confirmation or denial?  Are you stating the current players' feelings or those during the 2-9 2010 season?  Can you explain your connection to this year's team? How have you gained your info cause what I have heard from parents doesn't sync.

What is your reaction to the often stated position that the team is better off today because a lot of the malcontents from past years are gone?
carney2

LeopardBall10 wrote:
Potts will tell you himself that a player tends to have less injuries when they are playing like competition. I would bet that our # of injuries are mush less playing in-league opponents then when playing the CAAs who have had, until now, bigger stronger, redshirted athletes. A lot of our issues now stem from playing a much younger team. With so many Freshman and Sophomores playing they are not as strong or developed as the players they are facing every game. That strain of "playing up" leads to injury.


According to Paul Reinhard we came into the W&M game with 20 guys unavailable due to injury.  They hadn't been playing "up" or down or "like competition."  They had been practicing.
RichH

Almost a 1/4 of the squad? If ,injured as opposed to hurting,a very very high number. Guessing that is a broad estimate,a bit over the top.
Andy

RichH wrote:
Almost a 1/4 of the squad? If ,injured as opposed to hurting,a very very high number. Guessing that is a broad estimate,a bit over the top.


Rich, Paul's statement was "20 players unable to suit up for various reasons" not including the suspended players. We have at least 2 out with mono.
BPard

Andy wrote:
What is your reaction to the often stated position that the team is better off today because a lot of the malcontents from past years are gone?

Sounds like the often stated position aligns with LB10's point about "real issues" with recent leadership. Maybe this year will be different?

(I have no connection to this year's team or any others beyond that of a fan).
Andy

BPard wrote:
Andy wrote:
What is your reaction to the often stated position that the team is better off today because a lot of the malcontents from past years are gone?

Sounds like the often stated position aligns with LB10's point about "real issues" with recent leadership. Maybe this year will be different?

(I have no connection to this year's team or any others beyond that of a fan).


You're equating malcontents with "lack of respect"?  Maybe they didn't like sitting the bench and put themselves above the team.

I have no connection either.
RichH

Andy wrote:
RichH wrote:
Almost a 1/4 of the squad? If ,injured as opposed to hurting,a very very high number. Guessing that is a broad estimate,a bit over the top.


Rich, Paul's statement was "20 players unable to suit up for various reasons" not including the suspended players. We have at least 2 out with mono.

Thanks Andy. That seems more reasonable. We had a bunch out with stomach flu.
Andy

RichH wrote:
Andy wrote:
RichH wrote:
Almost a 1/4 of the squad? If ,injured as opposed to hurting,a very very high number. Guessing that is a broad estimate,a bit over the top.


Rich, Paul's statement was "20 players unable to suit up for various reasons" not including the suspended players. We have at least 2 out with mono.

Thanks Andy. That seems more reasonable. We had a bunch out with stomach flu.


But, we do have these, Rich:

Dellovade - starting fullback, mono
Hoffman - starting OG done with concussions
Vangelas - starting WR out, undisclosed injury or I just forgot
N Zataveski - starting OT out with shoulder
Chenoweth - promising fr WR out mono
Brockman - starting strike, top defender, out with foot injury
Wright - starting DE out for season, impending foot surgery
Vickers - rotation on DL out with boot on foot
Parham - starting CB out with hamstring
James - starting S out with broken bone in leg
Butler - promising fr S on 2-deep out, "dislocated shoulder"
Gralish - PK out with appendicitis
Warfel - backup OL on sidelines in t-shirt
Carroll - S out injury suffered early in camp
DePaulo - LB, ST player, out for season, I believe
Avent - fr DB out for season
Lonardo - fr DE out ACL

and of course the tragic loss of our starting TE and captain BK RIP

Awaiting word on starting DT and 2-deep DT
LeopardBall10

Andy wrote:
So you throw a statement out there that the players don't respect Frank and then ask for confirmation or denial?  Are you stating the current players' feelings or those during the 2-9 2010 season?  Can you explain your connection to this year's team? How have you gained your info cause what I have heard from parents doesn't sync.

What is your reaction to the often stated position that the team is better off today because a lot of the malcontents from past years are gone?


I apologize for the lack of clarity in parts of my post. I was not asking for confirmation or denial of my statement, but was allowing for those with other personal experience to rebut. My statements are comparing the feelings of those players from the multiple championship teams and those of recent years. I will admit that I do not have any relationship with the team or the athletic department this season, but have for several years that allowed me relationships with many of the current players and the staff. With that being said, if you have heard differently, this is obviously my opinion/observations and please, by all means, share.

As to the "malcontents" being gone, I think this team and the teams of the last 2 years are better off than the '11-'12 and '12-'13 teams now that some of those players are gone. But I would point to the end of my statement. Those problem players were a disaster to the team, especially as captains, but why? Were they just bad apples? Or was there a loss in the team ideal? Were they able to put themselves first because that was the message coming from the top (maybe not verbally but definitely through action)? Did any of those players meet or exceed their potential?

The difference in my opinion is that the staff has recruited more self-starters and the staff has taken larger roles, keeping Frank out of their hair as much as possible. I love Frank, he was always a mentor to me and one of the reasons why I played for the Leopards. But things are different now. He is just not able to/unwilling to put in the work.

I mean, how many of you can honestly say that you are OK with the HC being late for practice? Go to a practice in late September and get there a little early. Most days Coach Fein is on the field with the kickers and returners just waiting for Frank to walk out the door so he can blow his whistle to start stretch. What kind of message does it send when practice can't start until Frank is on the field, but if a player is ever late to practice they can be run after/suspended/or removed from the field?
Andy

LeopardBall10 wrote:
I love Frank


No doubt.

Thanks for the response, 10.  Frank has given a lot of responsibility to the coordinators, prob a good thing.
Andy

Game notes up:

Reed out
Mercado out
Butler in
Parham in
Labudev still in
flyfisher

LeopardBall10 wrote:
pardfan wrote:
Found 'im.  Kyle Simmons  freshman on 2008 team   6'0  175  Powe is 6'1 185

Don't get me wrong, I love Simmons. He is a great guy and played a lot (for some bad teams). But by no means would I equate his skills to those of a scholarship player. Powe may look like Slim in pads, but he should be a lot better.

To touch on the injuries vs suspensions, injuries happen and stronger/more fit players tend to have less of them. But Potts will tell you himself that a player tends to have less injuries when they are playing like competition. I would bet that our # of injuries are mush less playing in-league opponents then when playing the CAAs who have had, until now, bigger stronger, redshirted athletes. A lot of our issues now stem from playing a much younger team. With so many Freshman and Sophomores playing they are not as strong or developed as the players they are facing every game. That strain of "playing up" leads to injury.

The suspensions is what is really problematic. Not because they occur, the occur everywhere and for the same reasons. The Lafayette administration may have a stricter stance on alcohol than some of the other schools we hear about often because of the recent deaths on campus. That leads to some of the issues.

But, for my money the real issues can be traced back to the lack of respect that the players have for Frank. The players see more than he thinks they do. They know that he doesn't work as hard as the other coaches, they know that he is not the one doing any of the recruiting, they know that he isn't the one game planning. So, they put up with him. They let him go on his rants and give his pregame speeches, but no one in that locker room is playing for Frank. And when you don't have the respect of the players you are sure not going to have the discipline/work ethic/"playing above your head" capability that won those early championships.  The players we have seen succeed under Frank's recent leadership are those that are self motivated or get mad at the staff and try to prove them wrong. When was the last time you were really able to say, "Wow that guy really played above his ability" or "Yeah, the coaches really got the most out of that player"? Maybe Fly and some of the other guys with players on the team now can attest or refute.


Im sorry but I think most of your comments are off base. I have addressed these comments before and feel they are based on rumor and assumptions. People are going to believe what they want to believe.
Pard4Life

Andy wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
I love Frank


No doubt.

Thanks for the response, 10.  Frank has given a lot of responsibility to the coordinators, prob a good thing.


Has he really? This offense has his paws all over it.
flyfisher

Andy wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
I love Frank


No doubt.

Thanks for the response, 10.  Frank has given a lot of responsibility to the coordinators, prob a good thing.


As most good head coaches do. the head coach doesnt run the smallest details.
LeopardBall10

flyfisher wrote:
Im sorry but I think most of your comments are off base. I have addressed these comments before and feel they are based on rumor and assumptions. People are going to believe what they want to believe.


No need to be sorry Fly, we are all entitled to our opinions and I don't think I am going to try to change anyone's. I even asked for the opinions of others, because I know not everyone feels the same way and enjoy a good discussion. But, I will say that my comments are based on my personal experiences. I don't deal in rumors.

flyfisher wrote:
As most good head coaches do. the head coach doesnt run the smallest details.


I absolutely agree, and there are some things that I can never fault Frank on. Fundraising and hiring. He has always been able to attract great talent to the staff whenever a position opens.
carney2

Andy wrote:
Game notes up:

Reed out
Mercado out
Butler in
Parham in
Labudev still in


My annual question:  where are the Game Notes?
LeopardBall10

carney2 wrote:


My annual question:  where are the Game Notes?


Rhetorical? They are posted every week on GoLeopards.com, I'll post them in the pregame thread.

Link to this weeks: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schoo...6/release/release_20150908aaa.pdf
NewXbo

flyfisher wrote:
Forgive me for not placing much trust in any studies from the NFL. This is the same group that told us for years that concussions and head trauma was not a problem.

Artificial turf may be better than grass. I don't know. I do know it has to be replaced every few years. Also know I have yet to meet a football player other than a kicker that prefers to play on turf over grass. Turf is just about mandatory in certain parts of the country due to weather and at some schools just due to use by multiple teams.


Interestingly, today there is a two man crew using blowers to push the pellets from the fieldhouse end to the Eastern end of the field. They were down to the 10 when I left and they had moved enough pellets to cover a 20 yard stretch of the turf making it black. Not sure what's going on, too hot to go out and ask them. Could be they are going to repelletize the entire field.
flyfisher

I understand the college does a lot of maintenance to the field. Almost every day.
Andy

flyfisher wrote:
I understand the college does a lot of maintenance to the field. Almost every day.


X just wanted to use "repelletize."   Wink
NewXbo

Andy wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
I understand the college does a lot of maintenance to the field. Almost every day.


X just wanted to use "repelletize."   Wink


Hey, I'm a long time subscriber to Sports Turf Magazine and I'd be happy to bring my collection of 10 years worth of monthly magazines to the next home  game for you to review. BTW, you can purchase used turf for as little as $.50 per square foot. It eliminates cutting grass.

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