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Hi Group - just would like to know everyone thoughts on the past season? Good year? Bad Year? Disappointing year? Did the team turn the corner and is on the right track? It started out good, but ended in a big letdown.
Take care folks - it was a good ride for the most part?
The Maroon
Re: Your Thoughts?
jefferysinclair wrote:
Hi Group - just would like to know everyone thoughts on the past season? Good year? Bad Year? Disappointing year? Did the team turn the corner and is on the right track? It started out good, but ended in a big letdown.
Take care folks - it was a good ride for the most part?
I just started the same thread about 30 seconds after you did.
Right now isn't the best time---I'll probably post later in the week. But I'm disappointed overall. We showed to much talent to end this year with a 2-8 run.
curiousgeorge
I've watched this team all year and am most disappointed. This team has lots of talent that wasn't developed properly. Tammy's decisions regarding the starting lineup and substitutions were questionable at best. Vandy tried to do too much herself, Spicer obviously got burned out, and starting Purr made no sense at all. This team has five scholarship freshmen and sophomores that got way too little playing time. As far as I am concerned this coaching staff needs to go, although I doubt that will happen given the early success this season and number of overall wins. The 2-8 record over the last ten games says it all for me.
The Maroon
curiousgeorge wrote:
I've watched this team all year and am most disappointed. This team has lots of talent that wasn't developed properly. Tammy's decisions regarding the starting lineup and substitutions were questionable at best. Vandy tried to do too much herself, Spicer obviously got burned out, and starting Purr made no sense at all. This team has five scholarship freshmen and sophomores that got way too little playing time. As far as I am concerned this coaching staff needs to go, although I doubt that will happen given the early success this season and number of overall wins. The 2-8 record over the last ten games says it all for me.
Thanks for posting CuriousGeorge---Sometimes I feel like there are only about 3 of us that care!
First where I agree---Spicer was out there too much. Has nothing to do with her ability or how much I like her as a player---but they didn't do a good job of pacing her minutes. When she got in foul trouble we had no plan B to be able to go long stretches of time without her. I liked what I am going to ASSume that Lauren Jackson was hurt because I really don't understand why she disappeared altogether.
Re: Purr---Tammy's offense is most effective with a low post player who understands it---that player was Purr who was unfortunately at 60% from my vantage point. Not only that, but she was undersized. If I'm Tammy I have a meeting with "Vegas" on Monday and tell her that a large part of any success the team is going to have next year rests on her shoulders. Without a strong inside presence that can counteract the growing number of good, back to the basket players emerging in the PL, without someone who can make the good passes from the high post to the slashing players (next year mostly Garner and Wright) and kick it out to Zavocki and Spicer when need be---the team is going to be limited in what it can do. Amanda has shown an incredibly soft touch and good hands at various times---next year she has to make the mental leap and realize she's IMPORTANT to the success of the team.
Wright's continued development will obviously be key...Until we can get her foul-shootin respectable (it's obvious she worked hard as hell on it) and develops a little better range there's only so far she can go---but with all of that said she has the potential to be the best player to come through the program in 2 decades. The sky is the limit for her.
We lose a hell of a lot in Vandy. I hope I can see her again before she graduates to tell her how much I enjoyed watching her bust her ass.
But overall...I'm with you. I'm disappointed. For me I thought success would be going .500 in the regular league season and winning a tourney game--we were good enough to do both, we did neither.
As for tammy's job it's a non-issue. When Bruce kept her after last year he basically gave her the reins until she has a full team of scholarship players. She has what looks to be a good recruiting class coming in on the heals of what I consider a very good class now (Wright, Jackson, Virgin).
seenalot
I am not a huge fan of womans hoops and while disappointing in many respects, like the second half fold, there was some progress and the cupboard is not nearly as bare as it is on the mens side.
Lafalum
In the end for both programs it comes to down to the effectiveness of this year's recruiting. There is no excuse...both coaches have had a full recruiting cycle, new recruits will obviously have a good shot at a lot of minutes given the graduation of seniors who played a good portions of this year's game minutes.
You're right, that Bruce gives his coaches a lot of rope, in both cases it is well justified but every year that rope gets shorter. I actually think on the women's side we are in slightly better shape but both teams need strong post players. The three pt shot won't be as easy next year and rebounds will be tougher to come by for both teams.
But a tip of the hat to this year's seniors, they played with heart and ability and we welcome them as alumni and will miss them on the court!!!
curiousgeorge
Quote:
Re: Purr---Tammy's offense is most effective with a low post player who understands it---that player was Purr who was unfortunately at 60% from my vantage point. Not only that, but she was undersized. If I'm Tammy I have a meeting with "Vegas" on Monday and tell her that a large part of any success the team is going to have next year rests on her shoulders. Without a strong inside presence that can counteract the growing number of good, back to the basket players emerging in the PL, without someone who can make the good passes from the high post to the slashing players (next year mostly Garner and Wright) and kick it out to Zavocki and Spicer when need be---the team is going to be limited in what it can do. Amanda has shown an incredibly soft touch and good hands at various times---next year she has to make the mental leap and realize she's IMPORTANT to the success of the team.
I agree the offense needs an effective post player...one that can shoot as well as pass and rebound. I don't agree that Purr was the best choice just because she understands the offense best. We didn't use or develop the talent we have. The complaint for some time was that we didn't have any height. Now we have it (Smith, Virgin, Niquette) and we don't use it or try to develop it properly. How many games did these players not even get into? How many minutes did they play compared to Purr? It's this lack of player development that drives me crazy. It was the same for Jackson at point guard to back up Spicer.
I also don't understand why Garner was not a starter. The argument that she was better coming in off the bench just doesn't cut it for me. I also think Malone was underrated. She always seemed to produce for us when she was in. Finally, I thought it was sad that Johnson didn't see any playing time in her final game as a Leopard, even if it was just to be on the court with the other seniors at the end of the game.
All that said, I'm certainly looking forward to a better year next year, hopefully with better player development. (Have I mentioned that yet?)
pardon me
Better but????
This season for sure was an improvement. lets not forget the 1 to 3 win seasons we had a few years back. George is right about player development not being what it should be or is it that we arent getting players that can develope. You seem do be down on Purr cant quite understand that logic. This is a kid who had knee surgery in December and I thought played as hard or harder than anyone one on the team at about 50%.If she took minutes away from the other post players it was because she out worked them and was the better player.I think if she didnt get injured early in the season we would be singing another tune right now.But injuries are part of the game.
I think the future of the program is headed in the right direction having said that I think it is going to take a step back you cant loose players with the talent and leadership of these 4 and expect to improve. Good luck VVD, Purr. Gomez and Johnson. Thanks for reviving the program and making womens basketball fun to watch again.
The Maroon
Re: Better but????
pardon me wrote:
This season for sure was an improvement. lets not forget the 1 to 3 win seasons we had a few years back. George is right about player development not being what it should be or is it that we arent getting players that can develope. You seem do be down on Purr cant quite understand that logic. This is a kid who had knee surgery in December and I thought played as hard or harder than anyone one on the team at about 50%.If she took minutes away from the other post players it was because she out worked them and was the better player.I think if she didnt get injured early in the season we would be singing another tune right now.But injuries are part of the game.
I think the future of the program is headed in the right direction having said that I think it is going to take a step back you cant loose players with the talent and leadership of these 4 and expect to improve. Good luck VVD, Purr. Gomez and Johnson. Thanks for reviving the program and making womens basketball fun to watch again.
First of all---I hope the Seniors leave proud. It kills me they couldn't have found just a tad more success this year because they deserved it---but there was some nice atmosphere at the KSC this year and they deserve all the credit in the world for sticking it out and bringing this program to respectability. Attendance at home games was about 400/game higher than it was 3 years ago. They were a joy to watch--I honestly thought they'd still be playing. Their enthusiasm was contagious.
Purr played because---even at 60-70%---- she was the best available option---which should be a wake up call to at least two other players. We don't get better in the low post, we aren't going to win a title. In fact this is probably as good as it gets. I keep hearing about the "Center from Michigan." I don' twant to put to much pressure on her--I'd much rather see Niquette or Smith develop---but something has to give. Gomez from what Leone said couldn't practice she was so hurt. What a great group of women!
The cupboard is certainly not bare for next season---but...as is oft repeated on this thread: "player development" is key. In Zavocki and Spicer we have virtually all of our 3 point shooting back---Virgin could become very dangerous if she gets a little more consistent from that range. Wright is I'm sure more than aware she needs to be better at the foul line--nowso more than ever. Jackson's got to get good enough so Spicer can sit 10 minutes a game AND play aggressively without having to worry about foul trouble. For 2 years I've drooled over Smith's beautiful soft shooting touch--but she needs to develop the footwork to stop players her size. Garner, Wright and Spicer are superb--if undersized rebounders---but we're gonna miss Vandy's toughness inside as much as her points.
In my school of thought (which means...zilch) 10 wins is the plateau that moves you from bad to mediocre, 15 and other teams start saying adjectives like "good" when they are getting ready for you. We are almost there---but it will be a challenge. One we can meet though.
carney2
Re: Better but????
The Maroon wrote:
In my school of thought (which means...zilch) 10 wins is the plateau that moves you from bad to mediocre, 15 and other teams start saying adjectives like "good" when they are getting ready for you. We are almost there---but it will be a challenge. One we can meet though.
In my mind - and take it from one who knows, that is a crappy place to be - VDV out and a sophomore Wright in, puts us at about the same place we were last year at this time. Wright is the marquis (no pun intended) player of this group, and plays a few inches taller than she actually measures. As all have stated and restated, the keys here are player development and the incoming freshmen. If all goes VERY well we may move from mediocre to good on Maroon's scale. Even so, this team is at least two years away.
TheRock90
I'll admit I'm no girls basketball fan although I did watch a few games on TV. But I have a question that maybe those of you close to the program like sinclair, maroon or carney can answer.
I was at the ticket office a few weeks ago to pick up tickets for the mens Lehigh game and while I was waiting for someone to showup in the ticket office, I wandered into the gym and the girls were practicing. They had some partitions around the floor but I could see between them and John Leone was coaching the team and the other coaches were standing on the sideline. My question is, is he an assistant coach? And, why isn't he on the bench during the games instead of doing the color on TV?
carney2
TheRock90 wrote:
I'll admit I'm no girls basketball fan although I did watch a few games on TV. But I have a question that maybe those of you close to the program like sinclair, maroon or carney can answer.
I was at the ticket office a few weeks ago to pick up tickets for the mens Lehigh game and while I was waiting for someone to showup in the ticket office, I wandered into the gym and the girls were practicing. They had some partitions around the floor but I could see between them and John Leone was coaching the team and the other coaches were standing on the sideline. My question is, is he an assistant coach? And, why isn't he on the bench during the games instead of doing the color on TV?
I have no idea, but am willing to hazard a guess. John Leone, as most folks know, is the former men's varsity basketball coach at Lafayette. He loves the game. In fact, if you follow him on our football telecasts and the occasional baseball or soccer telecast, you know that he loves any game. If there's a ball bouncing, dribbling, being kicked, being batted or being fumbled, he's there. My guess is that he spends mucho time in the athletic complex under the guise of preparing for his telecasting duties. He is coach without portfolio of more than one Lafayette team. Occasionally, the coaches need to get off to the side, take a long look at what's going on, and put their heads together. I'm betting that the cry "Hey John, can you handle this drill for us?" is heard often on College Hill.
Thanks for grouping me with the real ladies' hoops afficianados. I am an interested but, alas, casual fan whose daughters all played, but not at this level.
Franks Tanks
carney2 wrote:
TheRock90 wrote:
I'll admit I'm no girls basketball fan although I did watch a few games on TV. But I have a question that maybe those of you close to the program like sinclair, maroon or carney can answer.
I was at the ticket office a few weeks ago to pick up tickets for the mens Lehigh game and while I was waiting for someone to showup in the ticket office, I wandered into the gym and the girls were practicing. They had some partitions around the floor but I could see between them and John Leone was coaching the team and the other coaches were standing on the sideline. My question is, is he an assistant coach? And, why isn't he on the bench during the games instead of doing the color on TV?
I have no idea, but am willing to hazard a guess. John Leone, as most folks know, is the former men's varsity basketball coach at Lafayette. He loves the game. In fact, if you follow him on our football telecasts and the occasional baseball or soccer telecast, you know that he loves any game. If there's a ball bouncing, dribbling, being kicked, being batted or being fumbled, he's there. My guess is that he spends mucho time in the athletic complex under the guise of preparing for his telecasting duties. He is coach without portfolio of more than one Lafayette team. Occasionally, the coaches need to get off to the side, take a long look at what's going on, and put their heads together. I'm betting that the cry "Hey John, can you handle this drill for us?" is heard often on College Hill.
Thanks for grouping me with the real ladies' hoops afficianados. I am an interested but, alas, casual fan whose daughters all played, but not at this level.
Ya Carney is right, he is not an official coach but he will help out. I have seen him in the gym working with one or two girls before outside of the season. He just likes to be involved.
The Maroon
I guess I am an "Afficiando". I like the women's game--below the rim, emphasis on good fundamentals.
However, I'm not close to the program---which is how it should be. I know nothing more than the SID wants me to know. So all I can do is guess.
I'm sure this will bring up some bashing, but John did work under the tutelage of one of the all time greats: Butch VBK. There are elements in Tammy's offense that are similar to VBK's. (How many teams weave?) Many times it's good in coaching to offer a second voice--a different approach. My guess is that's what John provides. I'm virtually certain he's not an assistant--he's probably just asked to offer his expertise. I'm sure it's appreciated by all as he's an enthusiastic and fun teacher.
Again--just a guess--but you can tell in his broadcast that John is "coaching" sometimes rather than commentating...."BOUNCE PASS!"
Franks Tanks
What is John's official function with the school? Doesnt he work in the Alumni office around fund raising.
The Maroon
Franks Tanks wrote:
What is John's official function with the school? Doesnt he work in the Alumni office around fund raising.
Yeah--I think he hits up the heavy hitters like Lafalum--not the beer and meatball crowd.
ps2
curiousgeorge off base
I think that you are on target with the developing the talent thing.But I think you are off base with the amount of talent on this team. This team doesnot have a lot of talent. I think that our first 2 scholarship classes may have netted us 1 legit d-1 player in Wright. The others although in limited minutes have not shown to me that they are ready to take this team to the next level of being considered a good team.What really scares me for next year is defense.Yes we are losing alot on offense.But in my opinion we are losing our best two defenders in VVD and Purr even hurt she was by far our best low post defender.This team next year will struggle to score with no VVD and will probably have to play a lot of zone to hide defensive short commings. I know that we are new at this scholarship thing but our coaching staff needs to do a better job. Wins next year 8 sorry but we are goin backwards.
The Maroon
Re: curiousgeorge off base
ps2 wrote:
I think that you are on target with the developing the talent thing.But I think you are off base with the amount of talent on this team. This team doesnot have a lot of talent. I think that our first 2 scholarship classes may have netted us 1 legit d-1 player in Wright. The others although in limited minutes have not shown to me that they are ready to take this team to the next level of being considered a good team.What really scares me for next year is defense.Yes we are losing alot on offense.But in my opinion we are losing our best two defenders in VVD and Purr even hurt she was by far our best low post defender.This team next year will struggle to score with no VVD and will probably have to play a lot of zone to hide defensive short commings. I know that we are new at this scholarship thing but our coaching staff needs to do a better job. Wins next year 8 sorry but we are goin backwards.
I'm LOVING this discussion--I don't know why we waited until the season is over to start it--but I'll roll with it.
Vandy was a great defensive player, and Purr had the best fundamental low-post defensive skills but her body couldn't keep up as she was injured. Still--your point is well taken--we lose more than just points.
Still I thought overall we were a pretty nice defensive team. Garner--IMHO--was the teams best defender and Wright was a darn close second. Spicer stops and pressures the ball as well as anybody. Zavocki is also very capable on defense. Even Tammy's horrid teams rebounded and defended OK. It's always been about scoring.
There are two glaring needs in the offseason: another PG (I know I'm beating this into the ground) to keep the offense going so Spicer gets more rest AND can be even more aggressive on D and not worry as much about fouls. I think Jackson is up to the task and look forward to the return of Jenkins.
Down low....Well that's where the most work needs to be done. Alex Serowsky certainly is going to have a chance to get time and Smith/Niquette will simply need to realize it's "their time." Who works with our post players? I guarantee you if Smith takes a drop-step and cuts strong to the hoop she's gonna draw a foul 9 times outta 10. She's got the range you have to respect, she needs that strong first step to the basket. Pardon me for concentrating so much on her---I'm not trying to be critical---I just think a lot rests on her and I've seen enough to think she can do some good things for us. If I thought she just plain didn't have it---I wouldn't even mention her.
Again---great posts....I was tired of my one-man conversations...People think I'm crazy enough.
While Jackson/Virgin didn't excel as much as Wright (who is a special player, not good...SPECIAL) I saw enough of both of them to think they are certainly "legit D1" recruits.
ps2
This is what makes this forum fun
You see one thing I see another. I think that Garner (Iknow she is your favorite) and Zavocki were ok at best defensively. Garner is a very good weakside rebounder but not verygood at taking her player one on one.Zavocki the same good at getting loose ball rebounds but has a tough time one on one. As far as Smith you can tell she is not a low post player she is a 10 to 15 foot perimeter shooter and isnt physical. I dont Know alot about the freshman comming in but if we dont find some low post defense. zone baby zone
Xboreturns
Let me try to keep this short.
First, the seniors. If you sit behind the bench you know how much leadership Mo Johnson brought to the team. When timeouts were called and the coaches huddled, it was Mo who stood in front of the players sitting on the bench and encouraging them. Its a shame the coaching staff couldn't find a way to get her on the court as the game against Lehigh ended.
We are going to miss VDV who accounted for about a third of our offense. Since we hardly ever subbed for her, I'm not sure we have a clue who will replace her next year. Apparantly its nobody on the roster.
Our offense the last two years did not play to Purr's strenghts. Shes a down low, back to the basket player. Our offense is based on back door cuts and needs to have the low post vacant.
Next, our strenghts and weaknesses.
Amanda Smith is a face up player. She has no drop step moves and does not score moving through the lane. If we stay with the same offense, she will need to need to make the jumper from the elbow to stay on the floor.
Malone came on at the end of the year and was taking the ball to the basket hard but had a tendency to make some bad passes.
Spicer is very steady at the point, can score on the three and going to the basket. Solid on defense
Zavocki is a stand still shooter and needs to be set up, does not shoot off the dribble or drive.
Wright is very aggressive but has hampered with palnter faceitious(sp?) and should be a force next year. But she needs to develope a pull up jumper in the 10 foot range.
I thought Garner regressed the second have of the year when her minutes were cut. I would liked to have seen her used more frequently, maybe for 4 minute bursts to bring energy to the court.
Virgin showed a lot of potential early on but her time also deminished as the season wore on. I think she's the closest we have to replacing VDV but she didn't get much experience.
One thing that bothered me during the season was the number of times we came out of the locker room at the start of the game not ready to play. Those bad first halfs cost us probably four games. Not sure what the problem is here but it needs to be corrected.
Another area I hope we are addressing with the incoming recruits is quickness. We also need to find players, guards in particular, who can shoot off the dribble. Jenkins, if healthy, should help in this area. With three scholarship classes now in the stable, I'm looking for nothing less than a .500 record in both the league and OOC games.
I just started the same thread about 30 seconds after you did.