Archive for Lafayette Sports Fan Forum This forum is not affiliated in any way with Lafayette College, Lafayette College Athletics, The Maroon Club or any other official organization. Please be respectful of other posters as well as the athletes, coaches and administrators.
 


       Lafayette Sports Fan Forum Forum Index -> Whatever else
Lafalum

Zeta Psi suspended for five years

In a notice yesterday a decision was announced that Zeta Psi was suspended for five years. They will not be able to rush or occupy their house. It is unclear if the school can use the house.

It is now obvious there is a shortage of fraternities as I am hearing nearly 100 men were left without a bid from a recognized fraternity during this rush. We shall see if the college is sincere, if and when they let Chi Phi now come back after serving 7 years of their 5 year suspension.
65Pard

The College has gone from 19 fraternities and 3 social living groups in the sixties to a fraction  of that now.....They unashamedly have found excuses to appropriate houses built and paid for by the frats.  Sad that they do not recognize the positive aspects of Greek life.
Andy

Would love to bring the family to my beautiful frat house for a post football game gathering. Can't, it houses offices now.  Sad that so many aren't given the opportunity to join. Ahh, memories:

Recall heading over to Muhlenberg gymnasium with my frat bros to see a young guy play the piano and sing his songs.  Caught his act last night at a sold out Garden.  Forty years between Billy Joel concerts. Pretty amazing.
bethlehempard

I recall 16 from this imaginary walk around campus:
SAE
Theta Chi
Kappa Sig
Sigma Phi Chi
AXP
Theta Delt
Chi Phi
DTD
DKE
Phi Psi
Zeta Psi
DU
KDR
Phi Gam
Sigma Nu
Pi Lam

Running a six-figure budget, dealing with 40 peers, an employee, contractors and vendors, parents and the college was great experience. Particularly trying to keep the cook from conniving with the purveyors.
BackintheDay

Generally the number quoted was 18 because Kirby and Soles operated liek fraternties with meal plans, pub nights, etc.

To Ed65's point, the college proudly stated we consider Greeks to be part of residential life and a key part of the community and welcomed us back.  They also said reclassifying Greek houses to be similar to orgnaizations on campus "opened the door" for fraternities to return.  While the door may be open in their mind, we see Armed Guards there, notwithstanding that alumni can't help with the recruiting.  So, other than some lip service, is anything really different?  Plus they think we are stupid enough to swallow this.   With Zete gone for 5 years and Chi Phi in limbo, Greeks, at least fraternities, will struggle to re-build.
Lafalum

Clearly, for the BOT ( and I focus on them because they are the consistent factor along with the faculty) to have any credibility they must act positively on a Chi Phi application or they have violated their own criteria. ( There is demonstrable demand, at least one perhaps three properties were built and owned by greek organizations, Chi Phi at least has expressed interest on being recognized, their national never pulled their charter, and they have a strong interested alumni leadership organization… btw I am NOT a CHI PHI) Their sin of course is to defend their property from being taken over as any organization is obliged to do, after the college reneged on their five year deal two years ago. As a matter of good faith and a demonstration that words and written statements mean something the BOT should accept an application from Chi Phi at the next meeting and allow them to come back by the spring!!

Anything less to my mind could poison the atmosphere in any campaign.
Pards Rule

Re: Zeta Psi suspended for five years

Lafalum wrote:
In a notice yesterday a decision was announced that Zeta Psi was suspended for five years. They will not be able to rush or occupy their house. It is unclear if the school can use the house.

It is now obvious there is a shortage of fraternities as I am hearing nearly 100 men were left without a bid from a recognized fraternity during this rush. We shall see if the college is sincere, if and when they let Chi Phi now come back after serving 7 years of their 5 year suspension.


Just walked through that place for the first time in years during my 30th reunion weekend. A gorgeous place! What will become of it? IS LC positing to tke it over and demo it and erect another Name That Building After Me for Immortality facility?
Lafalum

Re: Zeta Psi suspended for five years

Pards Rule wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
In a notice yesterday a decision was announced that Zeta Psi was suspended for five years. They will not be able to rush or occupy their house. It is unclear if the school can use the house.

It is now obvious there is a shortage of fraternities as I am hearing nearly 100 men were left without a bid from a recognized fraternity during this rush. We shall see if the college is sincere, if and when they let Chi Phi now come back after serving 7 years of their 5 year suspension.


Just walked through that place for the first time in years during my 30th reunion weekend. A gorgeous place! What will become of it? IS LC positing to tke it over and demo it and erect another Name That Building After Me for Immortality facility?


If you are talking about Zete being demolished it would be impossible in that it was designated a historic building in the Pennsylvania register several years ago. In the Lafayette article, Dean Dorio said that the fraternity had presented a VERY robust reorganization plan. It sounded like Diorio was in favor of reorg with a shorter suspension.  So it is now obvious this is being driven by the faculty which controls the disciplinary committee and the leadership of the BOT. This leadership is very out of step with recent developments in Greek communities as  many of the Northeast schools are adding greek chapters in recent years. My own is adding three already and has been asked by UVM to reactivate a chapter that left over 100 years ago.

It's time for the older hands to realize their time has passed and stop fighting battles from 30 years ago.
65Pard

Andy, I'm pretty sure there were 19 frats....I think Phi Tau is one missing from your list....cant remember the other two...Maybe Carney can help.  The three living groups were Soles, Kirby, and Watson.
Dekes built a new house by March Field while I was there, I believe using DKE Funds.  Later, our house did similar and I think the four by the tennis courts also used frat raised funds.  
Our new  house, to which I  and many others donated money to build, was appropriated by the college, and was occupied by a sorority last time I was on campus.
Lafalum

65Pard wrote:
Andy, I'm pretty sure there were 19 frats....I think Phi Tau is one missing from your list....cant remember the other two...Maybe Carney can help.  The three living groups were Soles, Kirby, and Watson.
Dekes built a new house by March Field while I was there, I believe using DKE Funds.  Later, our house did similar and I think the four by the tennis courts also used frat raised funds.  
Our new  house, to which I  and many others donated money to build, was appropriated by the college, and was occupied by a sorority last time I was on campus.


Yes there were 19 frats and 3 social dorms. Phi Delta Theta is missing from the list. Was there also a Sigma Chi chapter by the "motels," as we called them?? Phi Delt is now an office ( as we add more administrators than social organizations). We are now short beds with DKE ( a rehab project) Zete (empty and suspended) and KDR ( being occupied by the DKE' I heard and suspended) not available for occupation for anything but a greek organization. The college would have to ban all greek organizations for the college to occupy them. Chi Phi is being paid by the college to use the house which Chi Phi owns.
SixtyEighter

Theta Xi, one of Kappa Sig's neighbors is not listed.
bethlehempard

Phi Delt makes 17, the number I recall from the late 70s.
The four hotels were SAE, Theta Chi, Kappa Sig and Sigma Phi Chi which I believe split off from Sigma Chi over policy. Maybe it went back.
It's been a long time and upon reviewing my imaginary walk around campus, it looks like I had a few imaginary drinks and made some wrong turns along the way.
Perhaps other houses disappeared before my time.
A house needed a core of four to six solid guys to function, and teamwork to thrive. I didn't realize at the time how valuable the experience was.
SixtyEighter

I understand that PiLam is going to attempt to recolonize.Contrary to popular belief Pilam is a nonsectarian fraternity and not a Jewish fraternity . Accordingly this will challenge the  public position of the college  that Greek organizations are a vital part of the fabric of the college and  nullify the mantra that greek organizations are evil because they are discriminatory.The national head quarters of PiLam is now located in the Lehigh Valley.PiLam had a long history of diversity at Lafayette prior to the local chapter going inactive in the seventies.Because the chapter closed for lack of interest  voluntarily recolonization can't be thwarted by roadblocks related to discipline issues.
seenalot

Was it not Pi Lam's house that became the Lafayette Inn - and wasn't it the frat many of us referred to as "the chem lab..."
Bogus Megapardus

seenalot wrote:
Was it not Pi Lam's house that became the Lafayette Inn - and wasn't it the frat many of us referred to as "the chem lab..."


Yep, and it was kind of a cool place.  I recall spending some time there, especially the "GR" parties!
DaveR

bethlehempard wrote:

The four hotels were SAE, Theta Chi, Kappa Sig and Sigma Phi Chi which I believe split off from Sigma Chi over policy. Maybe it went back.

They (we) were called motels (not hotels) Razz

The Phi (Lafayette) chapter of Sigma Chi voluntarily returned their charter to the national in 1966 to protest not being allowed (by the national) to initiate a minority (Asian).  That year they became the only local fraternity on campus, Sigma Phi Chi, and remained that way for 16 years.  In 1982, they and the national mutually agreed to be recolonized back into Sigma Chi.
Pards Rule

65Pard wrote:
Andy, I'm pretty sure there were 19 frats....I think Phi Tau is one missing from your list....cant remember the other two...Maybe Carney can help.  The three living groups were Soles, Kirby, and Watson.
Dekes built a new house by March Field while I was there, I believe using DKE Funds.  Later, our house did similar and I think the four by the tennis courts also used frat raised funds.  
Our new  house, to which I  and many others donated money to build, was appropriated by the college, and was occupied by a sorority last time I was on campus.



This was AXP??
Pards Rule

seenalot wrote:
Was it not Pi Lam's house that became the Lafayette Inn - and wasn't it the frat many of us referred to as "the chem lab..."


Yes it is now the Lafayette Inn. I recall my frosh year (1980) being visited in my South dorm by a couple of PiLamers who were trying to recruit members. Unfortunately, word was already out they were on their last legs (kiss of death for recruiting pledges) and they didnt stand a chance. I think they folded 1981 or 1982??
BackintheDay

All this reminsicing points out how the alums hold Greek life dear, so back to the point of the thread.  What do we do to get the Faculty, Admin and BOT on board with the return of frats?  is the door really open?  And do we recolonize?
LafStudent2016

Zeta Psi

It is true. The Tau chapter has been suspended for 5 years (probably for good seeing how Chi Phi is still inactive) after a student not affiliated with Zeta Psi at the time got arrested at an Iron Pigs baseball game for an underage after purchasing beer with a fake ID in August of 2013. Due to members of Zeta Psi being at the game as well for the birthday of one of the senior brothers and for coordinating a bus that many took, the school ruled it a "Zeta Psi event" and a violation of probation and suspended the chapter. The decision occurred after a year of appeals of a hearing in a very biased conduct committee process made up of faculty and independent students many of whom are anti-greek. The school chose to make this decision despite enormous financial loses from Zeta Psi alumni and very weak evidence. What is particularly upsetting is first the fact that guilt in the conduct committee is determined on the principle of "more likely than not" not innocent until proven guilty which effectively had Zeta Psi fighting an uphill battle the entire process. Furthermore, the majority of the brothers in attendance were seniors who have now since graduated leaving the punishment (unnecessary to begin with) to be taken by the brothers not involved, in particular the now junior class who was not even affiliated with Zeta Psi at the time. This action leaves lafayette without its most influential fraternity from a financial standpoint and only 3 fraternities left painting a dark future for greek life on campus.
Bogus Megapardus

Pards Rule wrote:
Yes it is now the Lafayette Inn. I recall my frosh year (1980) being visited in my South dorm by a couple of PiLamers who were trying to recruit members. Unfortunately, word was already out they were on their last legs (kiss of death for recruiting pledges) and they didnt stand a chance. I think they folded 1981 or 1982??


Yep - Pi Lam was on its way out, for sure.  But it was a pretty cool place IIRC; kind of a hangout for all the students living off campus along McCartney St. and Cattell St. that relied on its meal plan. Sigma Nu was similar. The Dean cracked down on both of them them hard. It's a shame that students can't have that kind of option any longer.
bethlehempard

The Lam had six or eight actual members when I was around. Each got a room or two of their own. I had some good times there but it was clearly in trouble because of membership. Sigma Nu was thriving but their deck sleeping arrangement was a deterrent.
Pi Lam members at the time had a "house ounce" that was replenished a lot. Good guys, very mellow.
Bogus Megapardus

bethlehempard wrote:
The Lam had six or eight actual members when I was around. Each got a room or two of their own. I had some good times there but it was clearly in trouble because of membership. Sigma Nu was thriving but their deck sleeping arrangement was a deterrent.
Pi Lam members at the time had a "house ounce" that was replenished a lot. Good guys, very mellow.


Yeah, I admit I was kind of a regular for "events" at The Lam and I knew some of the officers.  They had few actual members but it was actually run very well by those guys and lots of the off-campus students seemed to hang out there.  I guess the point is, students no longer have that kind of option - and that's a shame.  The Admin totally regulates your experience these days.  Places like The Lam are off the table and no longer are a choice.  That kinda sucks.
leopard88

bethlehempard wrote:
The Lam had six or eight actual members when I was around. Each got a room or two of their own. I had some good times there but it was clearly in trouble because of membership. Sigma Nu was thriving but their deck sleeping arrangement was a deterrent.
Pi Lam members at the time had a "house ounce" that was replenished a lot. Good guys, very mellow.


I was a Sigma Nu Class of '88.  A fair number of guys still slept on the deck during my freshman and sophomore years, but it was mostly a relic of the past by the time I graduated (used mostly if you had friends visiting or your roommate was hooking up).  Most of the bunkbeds were shoved against the wall so we could use the space for floor hockey.

In terms of our relationship with the college, it was weird living next door to the President's House, but we never had any problems with President Ellis.  On the other hand, Dean Kissiah was no friend of the Gamma Epsilon chapter.

I miss the old house.  It is strange to drive by and see AGD letters on the porch roof (though I think the Sigma Nu letters are still embedded in the steps).
flyfisher

This is a sad story but I see some of it both ways. Some of these frats deserved suspension. One house kept drugs in the walls. Pretty obvious in today's environment that behavior is not acceptabel, nor should it be.

The college can more effectively use those buildings for something else. I cant see the college moving out of a current building to give it to a frat.

The social enviroment around the campus is one of zero tolerance. I can't see the frats coming back for some time.

Sad part in all this is it impacts recruiting. Recruits come in for over night visits and want to know what the social life is.The host players have to tell there isnt one. Many recent recruits have come in and there is no where to take them except back to the dorm for xbox.

After the Robert Morrris game many of the boys were exciited and just looking for any place to go hang out. No alcohol needed or desired. Just need a place to be together and listen to music and talk about the game. They gathered at a 4 man apartment but got run out of there for too many people. They go downstairs to Circle Pizza and still had to many so most everyone had to go home. Frankly, ive never seen anything quite like this. It has to be the most boring place my wife and I have ever seen. I feel sorry for the kids. Sad that the actions of a few a few years ago and have ruined it for everyone. sad parts is it impacts recruiting as well. recruits dont pick a college for the social life but they will not pick a school if there is nothing.

i can see the opinion of the college but things are a little over the top if you ask me. the kids dont even have a place to gather for music. many of us have thought about renting a house off campus just to give them a place to go.
bethlehempard

A professor told me around 1979 that college policy swung like a pendulum.
In my time the drinking was excessive and I was part of that, but 99 percent of it was on campus or nearby. It was extreme but mostly safe.
There was pot for those who wanted it but it wasn't in your face. No pun. Just the way it was. Subdued, cool and pot sort of regulates itself.
There is no such thing as herb rage.
I liked the atmosphere. After I left, there was an increase in cocaine but just by a few students. I didn't see it at all in my four years.
That among other things helped bring down my house. We the alumni closed it, the college didn't. There wasn't the leadership needed. It was doomed.
For my kid's high school team, we hold a light meal after home games. Perhaps something like that would help with the football team after games.
bethlehempard

Pub night schedule circa 1978:
Monday: SAE, Phi Psi, Sigma Nu?
Tuesday: DKE, Kappa Sig
Wednesday: Chi Phi, T Delt?
Thursday: DU, DTD

To be updated ... Accuracy not guaranteed.

Happy Hour Friday: SAE consistently. Sometimes spilling out into the field behind the motels. 20-keg events.
Sometimes Sigma Phi Chi would hold a Sunday happy hour on that field.

Friday, Saturday: parties at T Delt, KDR spinning discs (now that is antediluvian) and bands at Zete.
"Those ... Were ... The ... Days"

Just as a gesture to the old ways, I might walk around campus and do a beer shot at each of the 17 houses.
seenalot

Not to mention the "cocktail parties" after virtually every home football game.  Sport jackets and ties (or some derivation thereof) often worn, parents and dates regularly there and in a generally great social setting.  

Was the pendulum too far towards the "anything goes" side - yes, but the environment also taught life skills (including when to say no, when to stop and when you mis-step how to suffer the consequences) and insights into managing in the world after the relative safety of a college setting.    

The kids don't know what they are missing by not having a Greek option (an option that those of us who lived in a house knows goes way beyond  being "on tap" or a cocktail party after the game) to consider, and for that I am truly sorry.  The way the college has orchestrated it, that pisses me off.
Lafalum

The college did not give any of the frats support. Faculty shunned being advisors and as one faculty member told me…it was not career enhancing to be a frat advisor. True, there was lack of alumni leadership but it was hardly encouraged by the college. The only frat to come back to my knowledge was DU to the astonishment of the BOT who had convinced themselves there was no demand for fraternities.
Any resurrection of the fraternity system must come from the student body.
Chi Phi presents a major test of the college's new acceptance policy. If they are not allowed to come back with prima face evidence there is demand Byerly's credibility is at stake. Probably not her doing but forced on her by an inept BOT leadership.
Pard4Life

Greek Life is dead at Lafayette.

Excuse me... Fraternity life is dead at Lafayette.

Why haven't the sororities been targeted?

If the college was anti-Greek and anti-social group living, you'd see trumped up charges against sororities too.  AGD had low membership for awhile but they are strong now.

Just askin...
bethlehempard

Some of the sororities were a pain on the old Association of Social Living Groups. They tried to set policy yet they didn't even have parties or large budgets. That changed with the fraternity-only group -- IFC I think?

****

That's a great point on the cocktail parties. Mixing with old alumni was fascinating. Great guys and some in high positions, scholars, veterans, old sports stars.
And we did have to behave and make choices. On Parents Weekend I didn't drink at the party because of rush.
One year - 1980 - ? - the school had parents weekend and homecoming on the same day. That was tricky.
Thinking about how it was is nostalgic and a little painful. Damn. I'm glad I got to go to Lafayette when I did.
Andy

flyfisher wrote:
This is a sad story but I see some of it both ways. Some of these frats deserved suspension. One house kept drugs in the walls. Pretty obvious in today's environment that behavior is not acceptabel, nor should it be.

The college can more effectively use those buildings for something else. I cant see the college moving out of a current building to give it to a frat.

The social enviroment around the campus is one of zero tolerance. I can't see the frats coming back for some time.

Sad part in all this is it impacts recruiting. Recruits come in for over night visits and want to know what the social life is.The host players have to tell there isnt one. Many recent recruits have come in and there is no where to take them except back to the dorm for xbox.

After the Robert Morrris game many of the boys were exciited and just looking for any place to go hang out. No alcohol needed or desired. Just need a place to be together and listen to music and talk about the game. They gathered at a 4 man apartment but got run out of there for too many people. They go downstairs to Circle Pizza and still had to many so most everyone had to go home. Frankly, ive never seen anything quite like this. It has to be the most boring place my wife and I have ever seen. I feel sorry for the kids. Sad that the actions of a few a few years ago and have ruined it for everyone. sad parts is it impacts recruiting as well. recruits dont pick a college for the social life but they will not pick a school if there is nothing.

i can see the opinion of the college but things are a little over the top if you ask me. the kids dont even have a place to gather for music. many of us have thought about renting a house off campus just to give them a place to go.



Would more puppet shows help at all?

A very sad state of affairs, fly.  Sorry to hear it.

Zeta Psi was organized in 1857 and their house built in 1912.  Wipe out that history because of a fake ID incident over the summer, with a very sketchy process?  There are folks out of control on this campus, but they're not students.
BackintheDay

Should make for an interesting capital campaign if they are selling promises about welcoming fraternities back when reality says otherwise.  They really put Byerly in a bad position because she is really trying to relate well with ALL the alumni, unlike her predecessor. She'll take the heat when it's really the BOT and faculty.  Wonder if the school has calculated how much more the Annual fund could be if they had not alientated the fraternities.  It's a lost opportunity cost that is real.
flyfisher

While I can see the position of the university when it comes to disruptive social habits, I dont see any positive in running frats off. You lose current and future donations from current alumni and future alumni. Ultimately it makes it tougher to recruit students as well as student/athletes. PL is a little unusual in that athlets are involved in frats at all. In todays world the athletes dont have time.

The university is sending a clear message with 5 year bans that they dont want frats on campus. Even after the 5 years, where do they go? Seems to me the schools will use the vacated buildings for their own use. Space is at a premium on the Hill as it is. I just dont seee many, if any at all, of the frats coming back.

I am the advisor for my frat at my alma mater. I have taken on the job 3 times for 3 year stints each time. I just started again as they got kicked off campus for an unauthorized rush party with alcohol. No underage drinking, just an unauthorized party. They got 2 years and then they can come back. 2 years is more reasonable but 5 years? Especially for some of the violations a few have been cited for. It sends a message that you are not welcome back.

The whole social situation is a shame. Lafayette has a great academic reputation but what kind of kids are going to want to go there? With no social environment it will drive the current students off campus, which could make matters worse. My wife and I drive through there on weekends and after a game we dont see any kids and you can hear a pin drop.

I am not saying that every social should involve alcohol. I fully support that underage kids should not be drinking. Of age kids, that is their business as long as they accept the consequences and the responsibility that comes with it. But whatever happened to the formals? A dance? A sorority mixer? Fundraisers? Community events? Volunteer programs? it just seems there is nothing there.

Looking at this without all the history you guys have, I just dont see any evidence that the college wants frats or wants them to come back.
Lafalum

I think this BOT leadership is inept and undermining this president. They lost on athletic scholarships after a bloody and decisive battle, they are losing the battle to keep the school a small, Williams like Div 3 school, and the frat issue is the last issue this group of 20 and 30 year hangers on are fighting. It's time to get with the 21st century and these guys need to go away in order for the school to advance..
SixtyEighter

Political Correctness news flash :  Wesleyan has decreed that all fraternities must admit women within 3 years .This was in the newspaper this morning. The article stated that this decree was modeled after such an edict was imposed at Trinity. There was also a brief reference to a fraternity having been closed at Wesleyan for what seemed a trivial offense which I can't recall. As I get older my reading comprehension has suffered. I guess they will be calling them hermaphroternities .
Andy

What happened to The Spot on 3rd St?
NewXbo

This may be another plan by the marketing department based on the D1/D3 issue a few years ago. On the eve of the launch of the capital campaign the BOT announces that frats will be allowed. The announcement is made by the "Golden Voice" at Yankee Stadium. Everyone is giddy, checkbooks come out of their pockets. Another victory.
BPard

1) The distinction between suspension in this case and removal of recognition is critical. Admin higher ups say suspension means the expectation is that Zeta Psi will return to campus. Faculty or admin setting this expectation never happened before.

2) The infraction that LafStudent2016 mentions is the last in a series of infractions for Zeta Psi. Certainly they knew they were already on probation and should have treaded lightly so it’s hard to have too much sympathy. The part I do have sympathy for (unless there’s more to his story) is that in recent years other chapters have been caught doing worse than what he described, with far less penalties applied.

3) It is not a coincidence that the house corporation leaders of remaining fraternities actively cooperate, especially when the chips are down. In reverse chronological order, when DU faced a major hearing in 2012, their alumni were on the phone and e-mailing alumni leaders of other fraternities every single day for two months for advice and support. When Phi Psi had PSafe officers opening the doors of their students’ bedrooms in 2011-2012 to discover “unattended alcohol,” their alumni pulled in leaders of every fraternity and sorority – resulting in President Weiss holding a forum where he ended the decades long practice of alcohol patrols targeting fraternities.  When DKE had a series of hearings in 2008-2009, their alumni sought outside advice while their students asked for, and received the support of every fraternity and sorority on campus.

AFAIK, Zeta Psi chose to keep only their own counsel and did nothing like the above over the past year. In fact, they declined offers of help and support from other alumni leaders. Live Together, Die Alone.

Some in this thread say chapters closed because of lack of interest and/or lack of alumni leadership. Hopefully when groups return to campus, including Zeta Psi in five years, their alumni leaders work cooperatively in support of all chapters.
BackintheDay wrote:
What do we do to get the Faculty, Admin and BOT on board with the return of frats?  is the door really open?  And do we recolonize?
Admin and BOT are already on board. For any of you hoping to return your fraternity, make sure you’ve got enough committed alumni on board willing to volunteer their time.
LafStudent2016 wrote:
The decision occurred after a year of appeals of a hearing in a very biased conduct committee process made up of faculty and independent students many of whom are anti-greek.
If you are a current student, you should be working everyday with the committee currently writing the policies and procedures to recognize new/renewed chapters. If you don’t, those GDIs you grouse about probably will. You have a once in a generation chance to affect real, lasting change to improve the health of fraternities. Carpe Diem!

flyfisher wrote:
The college can more effectively use those buildings for something else.
/snip
the kids dont even have a place to gather for music. many of us have thought about renting a house off campus just to give them a place to go.

Hopefully you see both the challenge the College faces and the absurdity of the social situation in your juxtaposing these two thoughts in the same post. Is academics really effective use of those buildings if there are no social spaces left on campus that students actually use on a daily (or at least weekly) basis?

The Spot gets very low usage compared to the level of need for student driven social spaces. Byerly's Presidential Task Force studying the student experience concluded something akin to "The absurd alcohol rules are universally despised" in reference to The Spot.

flyfisher wrote:
Looking at this without all the history you guys have, I just dont see any evidence that the college wants frats or wants them to come back.
If you replaced "frats or wants them to come back" with "students to have a social life," wouldn't your statement still be true? But of course, the College does want students to have a social life even though you don't see no evidence of it. The problem is not fraternities. The problem is the same one that faces colleges around the country - underage drinking and the fear of liability caused by Drinking Age 21.
Bogus Megapardus

bethlehempard wrote:
Just as a gesture to the old ways, I might walk around campus and do a beer shot at each of the 17 houses.


May I join you in this noble endeavor?
Lafalum

BPard wrote:
1) The distinction between suspension in this case and removal of recognition is critical. Admin higher ups say suspension means the expectation is that Zeta Psi will return to campus. Faculty or admin setting this expectation never happened before.

2) The infraction that LafStudent2016 mentions is the last in a series of infractions for Zeta Psi. Certainly they knew they were already on probation and should have treaded lightly so it’s hard to have too much sympathy. The part I do have sympathy for (unless there’s more to his story) is that in recent years other chapters have been caught doing worse than what he described, with far less penalties applied.

3) It is not a coincidence that the house corporation leaders of remaining fraternities actively cooperate, especially when the chips are down. In reverse chronological order, when DU faced a major hearing in 2012, their alumni were on the phone and e-mailing alumni leaders of other fraternities every single day for two months for advice and support. When Phi Psi had PSafe officers opening the doors of their students’ bedrooms in 2011-2012 to discover “unattended alcohol,” their alumni pulled in leaders of every fraternity and sorority – resulting in President Weiss holding a forum where he ended the decades long practice of alcohol patrols targeting fraternities.  When DKE had a series of hearings in 2008-2009, their alumni sought outside advice while their students asked for, and received the support of every fraternity and sorority on campus.

AFAIK, Zeta Psi chose to keep only their own counsel and did nothing like the above over the past year. In fact, they declined offers of help and support from other alumni leaders. Live Together, Die Alone.
.


Totally agree with your well informed post. This was exactly the environment in which this suspension was created.  I do however point out one missing piece. Chi Phi was an agreement of "self suspension" which was to last 5 years. They never went through the disciplinary process, cooperated with the school to the the extent of letting the building to the school, which they own and hold a perpetual lease on the ground. Their charter was never revoked and remains on the rolls of their national. A year AFTER the agreement matured the college reneged due to the study. They now will submit an application to return ( which until now the school has refused to accept). IF they do not allow Chi Phi to return the term suspension has no meaning and any good will that Byerly has as a result of the completion of the study in which she said that fraternities are welcome will have been exposed as a falsehood. Again I am not a Chi Phi but their return would be an act of good faith to whole community and an affirmation of the schools good word.

Somebody can correct me but I believe DU was the ONLY fraternity to return to campus in the late 80's after a 5 year suspension.
Pards Rule

bethlehempard wrote:
A professor told me around 1979 that college policy swung like a pendulum.
In my time the drinking was excessive and I was part of that, but 99 percent of it was on campus or nearby. It was extreme but mostly safe.
There was pot for those who wanted it but it wasn't in your face. No pun. Just the way it was. Subdued, cool and pot sort of regulates itself.
There is no such thing as herb rage.
I liked the atmosphere. After I left, there was an increase in cocaine but just by a few students. I didn't see it at all in my four years.
That among other things helped bring down my house. We the alumni closed it, the college didn't. There wasn't the leadership needed. It was doomed.
For my kid's high school team, we hold a light meal after home games. Perhaps something like that would help with the football team after games.


I can honestly say that I saw weed but no snort! Snort really wasn't evident and I don't think had worked its way to college levels (except maybe ultra exclusive) by the time of my graduation in 1984.
Pards Rule

seenalot wrote:
Not to mention the "cocktail parties" after virtually every home football game.  Sport jackets and ties (or some derivation thereof) often worn, parents and dates regularly there and in a generally great social setting.  

Was the pendulum too far towards the "anything goes" side - yes, but the environment also taught life skills (including when to say no, when to stop and when you mis-step how to suffer the consequences) and insights into managing in the world after the relative safety of a college setting.    

The kids don't know what they are missing by not having a Greek option (an option that those of us who lived in a house knows goes way beyond  being "on tap" or a cocktail party after the game) to consider, and for that I am truly sorry.  The way the college has orchestrated it, that pisses me off.


So recall the after game cocktail parties. It was basically expected to dress up. When did it go away. Still happening in fall 83 my last football season as a student.
bethlehempard

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
Just as a gesture to the old ways, I might walk around campus and do a beer shot at each of the 17 houses.


May I join you in this noble endeavor?


Piels Light on me? PBR? Hamms? NO Genny Cream!!!

Logistics: quarts in brown bags? Portable jugs with plastic shot glasses? Quart cans with big foam huggies? Or my wife could drive around campus and we'd pack beer in the trunk.
I don't think they can suspend me, I'm 54.
I may do a test-run today starting at SAE working toward Pi Lam to get the timing down.
carney2

Pards Rule wrote:
65Pard wrote:
Andy, I'm pretty sure there were 19 frats....I think Phi Tau is one missing from your list....cant remember the other two...Maybe Carney can help.  The three living groups were Soles, Kirby, and Watson.
Dekes built a new house by March Field while I was there, I believe using DKE Funds.  Later, our house did similar and I think the four by the tennis courts also used frat raised funds.  
Our new  house, to which I  and many others donated money to build, was appropriated by the college, and was occupied by a sorority last time I was on campus.



This was AXP??


Alpha Chi Rho.  They were off campus on Hamilton Street between Burke and Lafayette.

And yes, 19 strikes me as the magic number.  Four, I think, were off campus:  Alpha Chi Rho, Pi Lambda Phi, Theta Xi and Sigma Alpha Epsilon.  The latter two moved down to new facilities on Sullivan Lane in 1963.
Bogus Megapardus

bethlehempard wrote:
Bogus Megapardus wrote:
bethlehempard wrote:
Just as a gesture to the old ways, I might walk around campus and do a beer shot at each of the 17 houses.


May I join you in this noble endeavor?


Piels Light on me? PBR? Hamms? NO Genny Cream!!!

Logistics: quarts in brown bags? Portable jugs with plastic shot glasses? Quart cans with big foam huggies? Or my wife could drive around campus and we'd pack beer in the trunk.
I don't think they can suspend me, I'm 54.
I may do a test-run today starting at SAE working toward Pi Lam to get the timing down.


I think it would have to be PBR.  NO Genny Cream!
Bogus Megapardus

Pards Rule wrote:
I can honestly say that I saw weed but no snort! Snort really wasn't evident and I don't think had worked its way to college levels (except maybe ultra exclusive) by the time of my graduation in 1984.


1980s -- weed, coke, ludes, acid, shrooms, whitecrossers - - all were readily available if you knew where to go and whom to ask.  And "whippets."  Who recalls the "whippet" craze?

I was a chapter prez.  It was my business to know all of these things.
Pards Rule

Bogus Megapardus wrote:
Pards Rule wrote:
I can honestly say that I saw weed but no snort! Snort really wasn't evident and I don't think had worked its way to college levels (except maybe ultra exclusive) by the time of my graduation in 1984.


1980s -- weed, coke, ludes, acid, shrooms, whitecrossers - - all were readily available if you knew where to go and whom to ask.  And "whippets."  Who recalls the "whippet" craze?

I was a chapter prez.  It was my business to know all of these things.



Ah yes I recall whippets! I lived in AXP for two years (soph and half junior - the first junior half I was at the Washington Semester program at American Univ in DC). I think this hard stiff came after I departed. If it was there it was limited and very very discreet (the hard stuff).
bethlehempard

Blotter was always around but never flaunted. Plus eating a stamp of it involves no smoke or flagrant mirror-and-blade ceremony.
When I was a junior four of us went to the Shady Lane Inn in Locktown NJ to see a band. One guy said he wasn't drinking so he drove.
When we got back to Easton around 3 am and thanked him for being the driver and staying sober he just said "I never drink when I'm tripping."
Last time we let him drive.

NOTE to any youngsters reading the board: stay away from the hard stuff. As they say in Amsterdam, the chemical high is a lie. Cocaine in particular is an evil drug.
While most got through without a problem I can think of a few who went through rehab and lost years of prime career-building time.
Have a good time. Don't be dumb.
leopard88

Pards Rule wrote:
seenalot wrote:
Not to mention the "cocktail parties" after virtually every home football game.  Sport jackets and ties (or some derivation thereof) often worn, parents and dates regularly there and in a generally great social setting.  

Was the pendulum too far towards the "anything goes" side - yes, but the environment also taught life skills (including when to say no, when to stop and when you mis-step how to suffer the consequences) and insights into managing in the world after the relative safety of a college setting.    

The kids don't know what they are missing by not having a Greek option (an option that those of us who lived in a house knows goes way beyond  being "on tap" or a cocktail party after the game) to consider, and for that I am truly sorry.  The way the college has orchestrated it, that pisses me off.


So recall the after game cocktail parties. It was basically expected to dress up. When did it go away. Still happening in fall 83 my last football season as a student.


They were still going strong in my last fall . .  1987.

All the Bankers' Club gin you can drink!
leopard88

carney2 wrote:
Pards Rule wrote:
65Pard wrote:
Andy, I'm pretty sure there were 19 frats....I think Phi Tau is one missing from your list....cant remember the other two...Maybe Carney can help.  The three living groups were Soles, Kirby, and Watson.
Dekes built a new house by March Field while I was there, I believe using DKE Funds.  Later, our house did similar and I think the four by the tennis courts also used frat raised funds.  
Our new  house, to which I  and many others donated money to build, was appropriated by the college, and was occupied by a sorority last time I was on campus.



This was AXP??


Alpha Chi Rho.  They were off campus on Hamilton Street between Burke and Lafayette.

And yes, 19 strikes me as the magic number.  Four, I think, were off campus:  Alpha Chi Rho, Pi Lambda Phi, Theta Xi and Sigma Alpha Epsilon.  The latter two moved down to new facilities on Sullivan Lane in 1963.


Alpha Chi Rho was in a relatively new house next to DKE (between DKE and Sullivan Road) when I hit campus in 1984.  However, they were considered the dregs of the fraternity world and faded away within the next 2-3 years.  If memory serves me, the International House moved into their old house.

Per the campus map, their old house is now the Kappa Kappa Gamma house.
bethlehempard

What was great about the late 70s was there was a house for everybody. Some houses might exclude somebody but the system didn't. The movie "Animal House" (1978) boosted recruiting. There were of course guys who didn't want to join and some alternatives for them.
Then the school made rush more formal with a set bid period, which was counterproductive. Rather than get a gradual feel for what was the right house and vice versa, there was a time to be accepted or rejected. That was a dumb move.
I walked by the old Crow house on the way to the parking lot Saturday night, it is a sorority. Crow was known for a drinking game I've long forgotten perhaps some variation of Tails.
In my freshman year, I think close to 75-80 percent of boys/men joined houses.
leopard88

bethlehempard wrote:
Crow was known for a drinking game I've long forgotten perhaps some variation of Tails.


Whale's Tails (or is it Whale's Tales . . . or Wales Tales?)?
65Pard

Stand in a circle and the numbers alternate left and right...you have to keep track..

The Prince of Wales has lost his tails,  I think it's number 3 sir

Third guy on right:

3 Sir,  no Sir I think its number 6 sir

6th guy on left

Etc.
leopard88

That's the one . . . or something pretty close to it.
Pards Rule

leopard88 wrote:
carney2 wrote:
Pards Rule wrote:
65Pard wrote:
Andy, I'm pretty sure there were 19 frats....I think Phi Tau is one missing from your list....cant remember the other two...Maybe Carney can help.  The three living groups were Soles, Kirby, and Watson.
Dekes built a new house by March Field while I was there, I believe using DKE Funds.  Later, our house did similar and I think the four by the tennis courts also used frat raised funds.  
Our new  house, to which I  and many others donated money to build, was appropriated by the college, and was occupied by a sorority last time I was on campus.



This was AXP??


Alpha Chi Rho.  They were off campus on Hamilton Street between Burke and Lafayette.

And yes, 19 strikes me as the magic number.  Four, I think, were off campus:  Alpha Chi Rho, Pi Lambda Phi, Theta Xi and Sigma Alpha Epsilon.  The latter two moved down to new facilities on Sullivan Lane in 1963.


Alpha Chi Rho was in a relatively new house next to DKE (between DKE and Sullivan Road) when I hit campus in 1984.  However, they were considered the dregs of the fraternity world and faded away within the next 2-3 years.  If memory serves me, the International House moved into their old house.

Per the campus map, their old house is now the Kappa Kappa Gamma house.



Relatively is the operative word. I think that place opened in 1972 next to DKE (help here)? There was a plaque in the entrance on the back side of the fireplace wall as one entered with the dedication date but it was starting to fray in 1981 when I lived there. Carpets were cheap and fraying and the water - for some reason- was leaking inside both stairwells from the stairwell drains. It was actually rippling the paint.
Pards Rule

leopard88 wrote:
Pards Rule wrote:
seenalot wrote:
Not to mention the "cocktail parties" after virtually every home football game.  Sport jackets and ties (or some derivation thereof) often worn, parents and dates regularly there and in a generally great social setting.  

Was the pendulum too far towards the "anything goes" side - yes, but the environment also taught life skills (including when to say no, when to stop and when you mis-step how to suffer the consequences) and insights into managing in the world after the relative safety of a college setting.    

The kids don't know what they are missing by not having a Greek option (an option that those of us who lived in a house knows goes way beyond  being "on tap" or a cocktail party after the game) to consider, and for that I am truly sorry.  The way the college has orchestrated it, that pisses me off.


So recall the after game cocktail parties. It was basically expected to dress up. When did it go away. Still happening in fall 83 my last football season as a student.


They were still going strong in my last fall . .  1987.

All the Bankers' Club gin you can drink!


Yes, thanks for the memory jog. It was at least 1987 and I went to one after a game at Sigma Chi to see if some friends (Class of 87) had come back for Homecoming that year. I don't believe they lasted much longer after this time?
Pards Rule

bethlehempard wrote:
What was great about the late 70s was there was a house for everybody. Some houses might exclude somebody but the system didn't. The movie "Animal House" (1978) boosted recruiting. There were of course guys who didn't want to join and some alternatives for them.
Then the school made rush more formal with a set bid period, which was counterproductive. Rather than get a gradual feel for what was the right house and vice versa, there was a time to be accepted or rejected. That was a dumb move.
I walked by the old Crow house on the way to the parking lot Saturday night, it is a sorority. Crow was known for a drinking game I've long forgotten perhaps some variation of Tails.
In my freshman year, I think close to 75-80 percent of boys/men joined houses.


It was at least 80 percent my frosh year. Here's an oldie that isn't done anymore - the frat stickers on the door to show where one pledged. Which side of the door it would be placed would correspond to the bed (left or right) of the pledge. Hell they don't even sell those stickers in the bookstore anymore and there was a whole rack of them!

       Lafayette Sports Fan Forum Forum Index -> Whatever else
Page 1 of 1
Create your own free forum | Buy a domain to use with your forum