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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:36 pm

leopard88View user's profile






Joined: 17 May 2012
Posts: 370







They were operating in a different era/environment and had different styles, from what I recall.

Beyond that, this approach seems to be part of President Byerly's style.  So far, I think she is doing a good job.  Therefore, I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt if she believes this is the best way to make things happen and get buy-in from all constituencies.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:37 pm

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3886







Again, I would have more comfort with 3 or 4 outside alumni on this panel. I hope that happens. Until then, I will wait for the announcement of who is on the committee. I would expect the major outside donors to hold their water unless there is an independent alumnus on the committee. Would you be writing checks??

Byerly has given me no reason to distrust her. She has my support.

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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:46 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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Location: New York City





I agree with lafalum.  Byerly has not given us reasons to distrust her.  But the addition of outside alums (non Board Members) is critical if this is going to be a balanced approach to becoming more competitive in the PL. I also think Byerly needs to add the proviso that moving to DIII is not an alternative - frankly, I don't think it is but having going through to nonsense with Rothkop 15 years ago, I always worry about it.

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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:08 am

LeopardBall10View user's profile






Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 291







I really don't understand those of you who are bashing the hiring of this consultant. On this board almost all of us would agree that we don't trust Bruce to make any decisions at all let along right the ship.

Byerly is doing exactly what we all wanted her to do, address the issue. She either does not feel she understands the day to day issues well enough or is using the consultant and committee as campus forums for change. But either way she is gaining more understanding of the issue from an outside source who will direct her decision making to fix the issue.

Until the report comes out and she chooses not to act further we can't gripe about this.
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:32 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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LeopardBall10 wrote:
I really don't understand those of you who are bashing the hiring of this consultant. On this board almost all of us would agree that we don't trust Bruce to make any decisions at all let along right the ship.

Byerly is doing exactly what we all wanted her to do, address the issue. She either does not feel she understands the day to day issues well enough or is using the consultant and committee as campus forums for change. But either way she is gaining more understanding of the issue from an outside source who will direct her decision making to fix the issue.

Until the report comes out and she chooses not to act further we can't gripe about this.


Agreed, a consultant is an admission in some form!

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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:46 am

WVPardView user's profile






Joined: 06 Oct 2016
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Location: The Mountain State





Well...you all might have convinced me.  But there are many scars from previous burns on my hide.  Hence my skepticism.

One thing for sure about a consultation - the consultant always wins, no matter what.

I guess we can only hope that after this most recent re-evaluation, the powers that be have the intestinal fortitude to make the changes required to bring back athletics to competitiveness.

Fingers crossed, knock on wood...
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:58 am

LeopardBall10View user's profile






Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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WVPard wrote:
I guess we can only hope that after this most recent re-evaluation, the powers that be have the intestinal fortitude to make the changes required to bring back athletics to competitiveness.


Agreed. If the report comes back and Byerly and the BOT decides to ignore it, then that is a different issue.
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:51 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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Location: New York City





WVPard wrote:
Well...you all might have convinced me. But there are many scars from previous burns on my hide. Hence my skepticism.

One thing for sure about a consultation - the consultant always wins, no matter what.

I guess we can only hope that after this most recent re-evaluation, the powers that be have the intestinal fortitude to make the changes required to bring back athletics to competitiveness.

Fingers crossed, knock on wood...


I completely disagree with you that "the consultant always wins, no matter what."  I have been in the consulting industry for 25 years and there have been many situations where our consulting firm did not "win."  The reality is that consultants wear out their welcome and new consultants or internal consultants are brought in to provide advice.  Besides, what we are talking about here is a firm that specializes in intercollegiate athletics, and presumably knows what they are doing.  Their mission is how to make LC more competitive in the PL - that is a goal that everyone on this board supports and if you don't, you should not be on the board.

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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:37 pm

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3886







For all of you that have questions President Byerly will have a live Webcast with Lisa Kassels( alumni president) and Gary Laubach on monday November 14 at 7pm. Send in your questions.

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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:39 pm

WVPardView user's profile






Joined: 06 Oct 2016
Posts: 48


Location: The Mountain State





Ed65 - If you've read any of my previous posts, you would realize that I still fully support the school, despite the many disappointments we've all endured over the years, from the current state of athletics to the destruction of Greek Life.  I continue to regularly contribute.  

Sorry that I hit a nerve regarding your profession, but don't question my loyalty or support to the school.  I was one of many that personally answered Coach Russo's call when the program was threatened to be scrapped, by reaching out to the administration.  I'm not looking for a pat on the back, but don't deserve to have my loyalty to the school, and now mostly to football, questioned.
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:57 am

Spardicus80View user's profile






Joined: 19 Oct 2016
Posts: 20







I think the formation of this committee and the hiring of an outside consultant is a positive first step, although I too, like many others on this board, am puzzled by the exclusion of an alumni presence on this committee.

Almost one quarter of the student body participates in a varsity sport during their tenure at Lafayette.  Most of the attention is focused on the two revenue generating sports - football and basketball.  But what is not often seen is how much the minor sports have struggled to compete on a yearly basis.  Most have not had a winning record for years much less competed for a Patriot League championship.  And, frankly, we don't need a committee to tell us why.  It is simply a pervasive attitude on campus  that it is a nice surprise when we occasionally win, but that losing has become the accepted norm.  Losing begets more losing.  It is an attitude that has permeated and percolated down to the athletes themselves.  If no one else cares, then why should they? The school prides itself on maintaining excellence on so many other endeavors.  Why not athletics?  I would hope that the committee strives to answer this question.

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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:14 am

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 851


Location: New York City





WVPard wrote:
Ed65 - If you've read any of my previous posts, you would realize that I still fully support the school, despite the many disappointments we've all endured over the years, from the current state of athletics to the destruction of Greek Life. I continue to regularly contribute.

Sorry that I hit a nerve regarding your profession, but don't question my loyalty or support to the school. I was one of many that personally answered Coach Russo's call when the program was threatened to be scrapped, by reaching out to the administration. I'm not looking for a pat on the back, but don't deserve to have my loyalty to the school, and now mostly to football, questioned.


Bravo WVPard: I apologize if my post questioned your loyalty.  I meant to comment only on your mis-characterization of the consulting industry.  If you have walked in my shoes and have had board members and senior officers blame us consultants for their problems, you would understand my comments.

As for your loyalty to the college, I applaud you and hope you continue to contribute.  I'm really glad you are on the Board and look forward to reading your posts.

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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:16 am

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 851


Location: New York City





Spardicus80 wrote:
I think the formation of this committee and the hiring of an outside consultant is a positive first step, although I too, like many others on this board, am puzzled by the exclusion of an alumni presence on this committee.

Almost one quarter of the student body participates in a varsity sport during their tenure at Lafayette. Most of the attention is focused on the two revenue generating sports - football and basketball. But what is not often seen is how much the minor sports have struggled to compete on a yearly basis. Most have not had a winning record for years much less competed for a Patriot League championship. And, frankly, we don't need a committee to tell us why. It is simply a pervasive attitude on campus that it is a nice surprise when we occasionally win, but that losing has become the accepted norm. Losing begets more losing. It is an attitude that has permeated and percolated down to the athletes themselves. If no one else cares, then why should they? The school prides itself on maintaining excellence on so many other endeavors. Why not athletics? I would hope that the committee strives to answer this question.


Well done Spartacus.  I agree completely with everything you said.

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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:13 am

BPardView user's profile






Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Posts: 208







ed65 wrote:
board members and senior officers blame us consultants for their problems
This is the other reason consultants gets hired!

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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:08 pm

seenalotView user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1424







Having spent 20 years in consulting there are lots of reasons to hire consultants - good and bad.

Sometimes we were hired to be a scapegoat and tease out a hidden agenda, sometimes to deliver a message that is politically difficult to say to a colleague or group, and sometimes for expertise that didn't exist inside an organization. Every consultant I know and I am sure ed65 knows, understands that is the drill.  And most know when starting an engagement which or which combo of roles they face. In many/most instances there is very little in the way of "ahha moments" or revelations in what consultants tell clients. Most times those deeply imbedded inside organizations have been saying the same thing to "management" for years - sound familiar?? What sometimes differs is a consultants ability to define a step by step  course of actions to fix the problems.      

We don't have a window into the real reasons they were hired in this case, which is likely what frustrates all of us - I know it does me. Seeing who they hire and knowing what similar projects they have done will answer some, seeing who else is in the committee will tell us more. Knowing how hamstrung a consultant might be in terms of speaking the truth we will never know. Sadly we just have to sit back, trust (or not) and see what happens.

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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:13 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 851


Location: New York City





seenalot wrote:
Having spent 20 years in consulting there are lots of reasons to hire consultants - good and bad.

Sometimes we were hired to be a scapegoat and tease out a hidden agenda, sometimes to deliver a message that is politically difficult to say to a colleague or group, and sometimes for expertise that didn't exist inside an organization. Every consultant I know and I am sure ed65 knows, understands that is the drill. And most know when starting an engagement which or which combo of roles they face. In many/most instances there is very little in the way of "ahha moments" or revelations in what consultants tell clients. Most times those deeply imbedded inside organizations have been saying the same thing to "management" for years - sound familiar?? What sometimes differs is a consultants ability to define a step by step course of actions to fix the problems.

We don't have a window into the real reasons they were hired in this case, which is likely what frustrates all of us - I know it does me. Seeing who they hire and knowing what similar projects they have done will answer some, seeing who else is in the committee will tell us more. Knowing how hamstrung a consultant might be in terms of speaking the truth we will never know. Sadly we just have to sit back, trust (or not) and see what happens.


Solid reasoning by "seenalot."  However, if the committee is made up of anti-athletic types, I will be the first to howl about it - directly to the President.  If the mandate is literally what it says it is, there will be solid recommendations for improvement.  If it is a whitewash, then lafalum will be right  - Moravian will become the rival and virtually all interest in LC Athletics will cease to exist, and the beautiful facilities will be sadly empty.

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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:08 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3886







ed65 wrote:
seenalot wrote:
Having spent 20 years in consulting there are lots of reasons to hire consultants - good and bad.

Sometimes we were hired to be a scapegoat and tease out a hidden agenda, sometimes to deliver a message that is politically difficult to say to a colleague or group, and sometimes for expertise that didn't exist inside an organization. Every consultant I know and I am sure ed65 knows, understands that is the drill. And most know when starting an engagement which or which combo of roles they face. In many/most instances there is very little in the way of "ahha moments" or revelations in what consultants tell clients. Most times those deeply imbedded inside organizations have been saying the same thing to "management" for years - sound familiar?? What sometimes differs is a consultants ability to define a step by step course of actions to fix the problems.

We don't have a window into the real reasons they were hired in this case, which is likely what frustrates all of us - I know it does me. Seeing who they hire and knowing what similar projects they have done will answer some, seeing who else is in the committee will tell us more. Knowing how hamstrung a consultant might be in terms of speaking the truth we will never know. Sadly we just have to sit back, trust (or not) and see what happens.


Solid reasoning by "seenalot." However, if the committee is made up of anti-athletic types, I will be the first to howl about it - directly to the President. If the mandate is literally what it says it is, there will be solid recommendations for improvement. If it is a whitewash, then lafalum will be right - Moravian will become the rival and virtually all interest in LC Athletics will cease to exist, and the beautiful facilities will be sadly empty.


I understand several high profile alums ( non-bot) who are well known supporters of athletics have asked Byerly to be included on the committee. We'll see!!

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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:13 pm

LeopardBall10View user's profile






Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 291







Isn't it media luncheon time? How about a few questions to get Frank's take on the announcement. Extra cookies for anyone who can get him to say how he really feels and not just some canned answer.

------------

Better yet, how about the opinions of the players. I would be very interested to know what they think about the study. Maybe we should be lobbying the President to have at least 2 current athletes on the committee?
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:42 pm

endangered leopardView user's profile






Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 1







It seems the only thing the administration and faculty are concerned about winning is the presidential election. If only the athletic department could get this worked up and passionate about a loss, perhaps something would change. Take a look at this letter from the faculty to our student body in the wake of Trump's victory:

https://www.lafayettestudentnews....er-from-the-faculty-to-lafayette/

It seems to me that the only group of students feeling repressed on campus are the handful of conservatives. Word has it that most of them are also student-athletes!

How deplorable!!!

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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:34 pm

KpardView user's profile






Joined: 07 Nov 2011
Posts: 1262


Location: Bethlehem





endangered leopard wrote:
It seems the only thing the administration and faculty are concerned about winning is the presidential election. If only the athletic department could get this worked up and passionate about a loss, perhaps something would change. Take a look at this letter from the faculty to our student body in the wake of Trump's victory:

https://www.lafayettestudentnews....er-from-the-faculty-to-lafayette/

It seems to me that the only group of students feeling repressed on campus are the handful of conservatives. Word has it that most of them are also student-athletes!

How deplorable!!!


News flash for all these overreacting social justice warriors (oh, sorry, if that's a micro aggression...on second thought, no I'm not sorry), the president elect is focused on national defense and the economy. He will not be bogging himself down in the social engineering agenda that these folks and the present administration are so fixated on.
It is so amazing how the tolerant can be so intolerant.


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