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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:53 am

LeopardBall10View user's profile






Joined: 23 Oct 2009
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NewXbo wrote:
The issue is how do recruit better athletes.


To be honest, that is the easy answer. You win. We have better facilities than our peers, we have a better location than a lot of our peers, etc. etc. Kids want to win rings. Winning begets winning.
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:02 am

LafalumView user's profile






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NewXbo wrote:
Well, it is an interesting article. However, it seems that he is suggesting that appointing the "money boys" to the committee is the answer. Sure, money will be important to improve facilities, better pay for assistants, etc. but that alone will not guarantee success.

The issue is how do recruit better athletes.


I don't think it's  just that. It's administration, coaching and everything that goes with it. In many cases, I believe we have good, competitive athletes, who are badly motivated or not motivated at all. Yes they want to win but are not given the psychological and technical skills to get it done.
Paul had suggested people like Tom Odjakian  and others that could tell them what needs to be done organizationally. I honestly don't think its a lot of money either. Our facilities are fine, but lets says we do  an average increase in  salaries for number one assistants of lets say, 12 sports of 20,000 dollars is 240,000 dollars in an overall school budget of 200 mil is not a big lift.

Winning has to become a goal. I don't see that in Bruce's statement and its hidden in the overall objective of the committee. It isn't stated because the players ( Administration and coaches) are afraid of the standard!! That's what we have to get beyond.

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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:15 am

Jpao92View user's profile






Joined: 12 Sep 2015
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[Quote="Lafalum:57589"]
Excellent article....couldn't have said it better myself. He has a great feel for the issues!! No doubt the announcement has put some fears in some places. [/quote]

I said the same thing he says in this article directly, twice now, to the President.  Excellence!!  It isn't that athletics are the end all be all of the College or that they define us.  But the College undertakes to put teams on the field and provide first rate facilities for said teams.  It should do so with the goal of showing the world that we strive for excellence in everything we do.   Right now the message is one of complacency and apathy.  

The egg heads and erudite set that form the anti-jock faction or the "we should be Williams" faction look at athletics much (not exactly, mind you) as they do the Greek system.     They believe athletics to be a distraction and a black mark/obstacle to being judged academically elite.   Another factor here is the zero sum faction that believes every dollar donated or allocated to athletics is stealing from an academic designated donation to the College.  This faction fails to grasp that in many cases but for athletics the donation would not be made in the first place.   By the way, I have seen this same "but for" attitude amongst academic departments in the College.  

The College has its answer already.  They are forming this committee simply to validate that answer and provide cover.   They have done this same kabuki theatre before.  The question is, what is the answer they have already come up with?

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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:19 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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NewXbo wrote:
However, it seems that he is suggesting that appointing the "money boys" to the committee is the answer. Sure, money will be important to improve facilities, etc


Think about it, why would you write a big check until you found out more about the study?? These people are not stupid!! They've made the decision to have the study, get on with it or the  money will dry up!!

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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:57 pm

ZeusView user's profile






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There is significance evidence that shows the college's view of athletics, period.

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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:31 pm

LeopardBall10View user's profile






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Jpao92 wrote:
They have done this same kabuki theatre before.


The reference had me ROFL. Now I can't get the image of Frank on the sidelines wearing a kabuki mask out of my head.


If only I weren't at work and had access to my photoshop.
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:35 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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Location: New York City





LeopardBall10 wrote:
Jpao92 wrote:
They have done this same kabuki theatre before.


The reference had me ROFL. Now I can't get the image of Frank on the sidelines wearing a kabuki mask out of my head.


If only I weren't at work and had access to my photoshop.


LOL LeopardBall!

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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:40 pm

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
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Maybe the college doesn't offer enough majors, or offer majors that are not attractive to athletes of various sports. LU offers supply chain management, education, etc.  Per LVL today, supply chain management has a median salary of $100,000+.
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:04 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
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BPard wrote:
flyfisher wrote:
Some things are more clear to me now. We have 2000 students. We need to grow to some degree. It would s hard to grow in STEM majors with so few students.
You're off by over 20% on the size of the College.

It's a lot easier to get to 3,000 when you're already at 2,500 than if you're actually starting at 2,000.


Well hell, flog me. That makes a difference. That changes everything

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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:24 am

SIDELINERView user's profile






Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 654


Location: PA





Isn't it time to update the dashboard on this site? Get that one football league WIN added in there -- and maybe some other positive results, too.

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Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:10 pm

PardDad71View user's profile






Joined: 09 Nov 2016
Posts: 145







Lafalum wrote:
A guarantee would be to have prominent alumni ( non BOT) on the committee who would go nuts publicly if Div 3 were considered or dropping football. ( I do not believe that dropping football or div 3 on the table).


Dropping to DIII would be a disaster.   Alumuni would give less, and you would discover switching to DIII athletics would not mean winning.  

To be more competitive, my 2 cents is you need to grow the College.   Someone accurately pointed out doing that in STEM majors is hard.   Someone else mentioned adding courses of study, and I agree with that.

Other PL schools enroll players who are not academic fits for STEM majors.  I am not saying they are not intelligent kids, but this expands the talent pool you can recruit from

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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:20 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
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PardDad71 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
A guarantee would be to have prominent alumni ( non BOT) on the committee who would go nuts publicly if Div 3 were considered or dropping football. ( I do not believe that dropping football or div 3 on the table).


Dropping to DIII would be a disaster. Alumuni would give less, and you would discover switching to DIII athletics would not mean winning.

To be more competitive, my 2 cents is you need to grow the College. Someone accurately pointed out doing that in STEM majors is hard. Someone else mentioned adding courses of study, and I agree with that.

Other PL schools enroll players who are not academic fits for STEM majors. I am not saying they are not intelligent kids, but this expands the talent pool you can recruit from


I really don't think dropping to D3 is an option. At least not right now.

We do have to consider majors for athletes. My son is in engineering. They Started with 7 in his class and are now down to 2. Junior class down to 3. A recent player was asked by the staff to get out of engineering due to him playing a big role on the football team. You can major in engineering and play football but it's tough to give 100% to both. Tough to keep weight on when averaging 3-4 hours of sleep a night.

Not saying we need to offer criminal justice majors but need to continue to offer choices.

And to get on my soapbox for a minute, I still think we should offer a business major. I understand why we don't. There are many Wall Street firms that do not actively recruit at LC due to this. Doesn't mean you can get hired, just have to use other avenues. And this comes straight from those recruiters.

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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:40 pm

BPardView user's profile






Joined: 23 Sep 2014
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Econ dept used to be business and economics. Faculty voted to strip the business out. Business as a major is a non starter with the faculty unfortunately.

Not sure we need to add new courses of study except possibly education.

What other new majors  or departments would be worth adding?

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Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:18 pm

Franks TanksView user's profile






Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 3273







We offer a finance track in the department that prepares students well for Wall Street jobs.  Many of my friends make crazy money with an undergrad Econ degree from Lafayette and nothing else. A general business major is not very valuable anyway, as employers like quantative majors like Econ, Finance and accounting.  I do think we should offer more descriptive majors, but our grads aren't losing out cause their degree doesn't say Business Management.

Also think you are being overly dramatic on the engineering piece.  Many of my athlete friends were engineering majors.  Yes, they worked hard and had some late nights now and then, but they had enough free time to socialize as much as the rest of us.  

As for new magots I agree the often suggested education major would be a positive on several fronts.  We are not the type of school that is equipped or accustomed to offering majors like nursing or PT do we shouldn't, and given this not sure what other majors would be beneficial at this point.

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:33 am

PardDad71View user's profile






Joined: 09 Nov 2016
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BPard wrote:
Econ dept used to be business and economics. Faculty voted to strip the business out. Business as a major is a non starter with the faculty unfortunately.

Not sure we need to add new courses of study except possibly education.

What other new majors or departments would be worth adding?



Ideally you want to focus on areas of higher potential employment.   Education definitely fits,   I think adding a discipline/major in Marketing/Sales/PR (encompassing the usual "Communications" major) while not popular with the elitists, makes sense; Hospitality management could be stand alone or part of Econ, and either as a subset to pre-law, or chem something related to the Healthcare/Pharmaceutical industries    Probably also as a subset to one of the quantitative majors would be  Logistics.

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:52 am

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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Location: New York City





PardDad71 wrote:
BPard wrote:
Econ dept used to be business and economics. Faculty voted to strip the business out. Business as a major is a non starter with the faculty unfortunately.

Not sure we need to add new courses of study except possibly education.

What other new majors or departments would be worth adding?



Ideally you want to focus on areas of higher potential employment. Education definitely fits, I think adding a discipline/major in Marketing/Sales/PR (encompassing the usual "Communications" major) while not popular with the elitists, makes sense; Hospitality management could be stand alone or part of Econ, and either as a subset to pre-law, or chem something related to the Healthcare/Pharmaceutical industries Probably also as a subset to one of the quantitative majors would be Logistics.


Good thinking by Pard Dad.  All of these concentrations should be discussed although it would involve dealing with the academics who do not necessarily think in practical terms!

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:04 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3884







Education is a win/win. By placing our grads in high schools, we will inspire young students to apply to our school. I see it all the time in our local schools.

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:58 am

WVPardView user's profile






Joined: 06 Oct 2016
Posts: 48


Location: The Mountain State





All - Education sounds great, but will the Faculty go for it?  Also, would a teaching career support the potential student loan debt?

Not being critical, I just don't know the answers and am thinking out loud.  

I can only provide one point of reference - my brother was an instructor at Tulane, after working his way up from UNO [where he obtained a MFA, not Phd or EDD], then Xavier (NO) and Loyola (NO), [I can't remember the order], after obtaining really good teaching reviews throughout, maxed out at about $50,000.  He has over $110,000 in student loans and is now doing something else.

I know that some of the wealthy school districts in PA pay their teachers really well and principals even better; but, other than full scholarship recipients can a kid afford to teach with a LC degree and potential debt load?  I certainly agree that this country would be heading in the right direction if LC men and women would be influencing and educating our youth.  

Having wondered all that - I am all for expanding majors, and really wished that there were more choices when I was there in the late 80's/early 90's.  Really, like everyone here, I would support anything that would make the school more successful in all aspects...including, but not limited to, athletics.

Circling my ramblings back to football - I remember Heff telling me that he lost a kid to Penn that he couldn't get into LC.  He was really pissed about losing that kid.  Would admissions soften some requirements if we expanded our base of majors?  If not, would any of this help getting more good athletes?

Again - I don't really know, and am truly wondering.  I have been convinced to become hopeful that the upcoming study signals a commitment to athletic competitiveness; hopefully the expansion discussed in this forum will be on the table.
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:08 pm

Franks TanksView user's profile






Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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I think Bucknell does a nice job offering real world majors in a liberal arts context.  We do as well, but some tweaking is necessary.

Bucknell has a school of management which offers majors in areas like global management and financial management.  This and education is really the largest offerings that wd don't have.

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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:14 pm

WVPardView user's profile






Joined: 06 Oct 2016
Posts: 48


Location: The Mountain State





Those majors would be cool.

BTW - I do have to stop and look at the Kabuki masks every visit to this page.  The thought of Frank and the staff wearing them on the sidelines cracks me up.  But, so did Beavis and Butthead back in the day.


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