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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:42 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 892


Location: New York City





NE Leopard wrote:
One of the conclusions at the end of this study will be that Lafayette has too many sports for this size school. IMHO, the college needs to cut out some sports and concentrate the resources and money on being not only competitive, but with a goal to win PL championships and play in the NCAA tournaments.

One of the challenges is Title IX obviously, so some hard decisions will have to be made at what men's sports will need to be cut to keep the scholarship levels intact and equitable with the women's scholarships. Keeping football competitive may mean cutting men's baseball, soccer and/or lacrosse (or changing them to club status), or increasing scholarship levels for the other women's sports.

In the end, it is not in the College's best interest to field 23 non-competitive sports programs just to say we have D1 athletics and that 25%+ of the student body plays a sport.


I cannot imagine cutting baseball (it is well supported and we have been playing since 1869) or soccer or lacrosse.  That simply won't happen

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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:44 pm

ed65View user's profile






Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 892


Location: New York City





bison137 wrote:
Two issues:

1. The NCAA reimburses each school $30,000+ for each sport they have above the minimum of 15.

2. What would the effect be on donations from alums whose sports were dropped?


Good point 137 - and a very practical reason not to drop any sports.

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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:54 pm

PardsfriendView user's profile






Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 121







LeopardBall10 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
FB has a very stable staff, I am torn if that is good or bad. The other sports are atrocious. There is turnover for the wrong reason. Low paid assistants in losing programs does not make them attractive nor will we attract good assistants.


If you look at the football staff the stability is nice, if it is for the right reason. If you have a coach who turns down other offers to stay on his current staff that means you have a winning program and great chemistry. That is not the case with this staff, no one is getting offers elsewhere or else they would be there. Loose literally took a demotion to move back to the job he held 12 years earlier to get away from Frank.

Lafalum wrote:
Also does anyone really believe we have a future head coach in our stable of assistants athletic program wide.

I thought Mikey was brought in to be the heir-apparent Rolling Eyes



I know the guys on the football staff very well, and I think a lot of them are very good coaches. The issue is that the entire program is a quagmire and I don't think anyone on the inside has the ability to regain the trust of the players that Frank has lost.



 In general, I agree with LB10.  From an X And O perspective, our assistant's understand their responsibilities and are dedicated to their function.

We aren't far away from success on the field but the culture has to change quickly.

The one exception I don't share is in recruiting.   IMHO, this staff isn't receptive to student-athletes that are clearly merit qualified on the field and academically.  There are hs players competing in very close proximity who fit the LC profile and would contribute to program success right now, but aren't recruited for various reasons.  And we will, and have lost these players to teams that beat us right now, i.e. Princeton, Lehigh, and Gate.  The kids I'm referencing and familiar with are closeby here in NJ.

 We have the funding, facilities, and an outstanding academic model to offer kids interested in playing in the PL at Lafayette.  I've visited every football playing school in the Patriot League.  Our facilities and infrastructure are right at the top.  


 What must change is the culture and administrative direction of the program.

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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:18 pm

NE LeopardView user's profile






Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 178







NewXbo wrote:
NE Leopard wrote:
One of the conclusions at the end of this study will be that Lafayette has too many sports for this size school. IMHO, the college needs to cut out some sports and concentrate the resources and money on being not only competitive, but with a goal to win PL championships and play in the NCAA tournaments.

One of the challenges is Title IX obviously, so some hard decisions will have to be made at what men's sports will need to be cut to keep the scholarship levels intact and equitable with the women's scholarships. Keeping football competitive may mean cutting men's baseball, soccer and/or lacrosse (or changing them to club status), or increasing scholarship levels for the other women's sports.

In the end, it is not in the College's best interest to field 23 non-competitive sports programs just to say we have D1 athletics and that 25%+ of the student body plays a sport.


Why not drop football? That way you are only impacting one sport. Using your approach there will be a lot of sports dropped, particularily on the women's side. Bad strategy.


Dropping football is always an option. Hofstra, Northeastern, Boston U all did it...probably not a smart move here. They would still have to honor the existing scholarships, so not a major short term savings. My suggestion is a basis for being more competitive. Clearly we are not today in any sport, which is a shame based on the facilities and the quality of education. But honestly, do we need fencing and crew?? Even UConn dropped Lacrosse to club status many, many years ago and it has never surfaced as a varsity sport. I'm trying to play devils advocate in advance of the College's competitive study.

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Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:04 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6155







Pardsfriend wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
FB has a very stable staff, I am torn if that is good or bad. The other sports are atrocious. There is turnover for the wrong reason. Low paid assistants in losing programs does not make them attractive nor will we attract good assistants.


If you look at the football staff the stability is nice, if it is for the right reason. If you have a coach who turns down other offers to stay on his current staff that means you have a winning program and great chemistry. That is not the case with this staff, no one is getting offers elsewhere or else they would be there. Loose literally took a demotion to move back to the job he held 12 years earlier to get away from Frank.

Lafalum wrote:
Also does anyone really believe we have a future head coach in our stable of assistants athletic program wide.

I thought Mikey was brought in to be the heir-apparent Rolling Eyes



I know the guys on the football staff very well, and I think a lot of them are very good coaches. The issue is that the entire program is a quagmire and I don't think anyone on the inside has the ability to regain the trust of the players that Frank has lost.



In general, I agree with LB10. From an X And O perspective, our assistant's understand their responsibilities and are dedicated to their function.

We aren't far away from success on the field but the culture has to change quickly.

The one exception I don't share is in recruiting. IMHO, this staff isn't receptive to student-athletes that are clearly merit qualified on the field and academically. There are hs players competing in very close proximity who fit the LC profile and would contribute to program success right now, but aren't recruited for various reasons. And we will, and have lost these players to teams that beat us right now, i.e. Princeton, Lehigh, and Gate. The kids I'm referencing and familiar with are closeby here in NJ.

We have the funding, facilities, and an outstanding academic model to offer kids interested in playing in the PL at Lafayette. I've visited every football playing school in the Patriot League. Our facilities and infrastructure are right at the top.


What must change is the culture and administrative direction of the program.


Yes, the culture has to change. However, it wasn't the culture that failed to block the Colgate D-linemen one-on-one, wasnt the culture that dropped a beautifully thrown pass on 3rd and long, wasnt the culture that is inept at tackling, nor confused forever in the secondary. Frank won 3 championships with an anti football administration, a deficient budget,a stadium that was falling apart and a bunch of tough kids that no one else wanted. What changed - the staff and Frank.

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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:22 am

edge29View user's profile






Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 767







Andy wrote:
Pardsfriend wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
FB has a very stable staff, I am torn if that is good or bad. The other sports are atrocious. There is turnover for the wrong reason. Low paid assistants in losing programs does not make them attractive nor will we attract good assistants.


If you look at the football staff the stability is nice, if it is for the right reason. If you have a coach who turns down other offers to stay on his current staff that means you have a winning program and great chemistry. That is not the case with this staff, no one is getting offers elsewhere or else they would be there. Loose literally took a demotion to move back to the job he held 12 years earlier to get away from Frank.

Lafalum wrote:
Also does anyone really believe we have a future head coach in our stable of assistants athletic program wide.



I thought Mikey was brought in to be the heir-apparent Rolling Eyes



I know the guys on the football staff very well, and I think a lot of them are very good coaches. The issue is that the entire program is a quagmire and I don't think anyone on the inside has the ability to regain the trust of the players that Frank has lost.



In general, I agree with LB10. From an X And O perspective, our assistant's understand their responsibilities and are dedicated to their function.

We aren't far away from success on the field but the culture has to change quickly.

The one exception I don't share is in recruiting. IMHO, this staff isn't receptive to student-athletes that are clearly merit qualified on the field and academically. There are hs players competing in very close proximity who fit the LC profile and would contribute to program success right now, but aren't recruited for various reasons. And we will, and have lost these players to teams that beat us right now, i.e. Princeton, Lehigh, and Gate. The kids I'm referencing and familiar with are closeby here in NJ.

We have the funding, facilities, and an outstanding academic model to offer kids interested in playing in the PL at Lafayette. I've visited every football playing school in the Patriot League. Our facilities and infrastructure are right at the top.


What must change is the culture and administrative direction of the program.


Yes, the culture has to change. However, it wasn't the culture that failed to block the Colgate D-linemen one-on-one, wasnt the culture that dropped a beautifully thrown pass on 3rd and long, wasnt the culture that is inept at tackling, nor confused forever in the secondary. Frank won 3 championships with an anti football administration, a deficient budget,a stadium that was falling apart and a bunch of tough kids that no one else wanted. What changed - the staff and Frank.


Exactly Andy.  And to pile on, the athletes and facilities are much improved since then.  Tavani's career is the poster child of where resting on your laurels gets you.

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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:38 am

BillSView user's profile






Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 1019







edge29 wrote:
Andy wrote:
Pardsfriend wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
FB has a very stable staff, I am torn if that is good or bad. The other sports are atrocious. There is turnover for the wrong reason. Low paid assistants in losing programs does not make them attractive nor will we attract good assistants.


If you look at the football staff the stability is nice, if it is for the right reason. If you have a coach who turns down other offers to stay on his current staff that means you have a winning program and great chemistry. That is not the case with this staff, no one is getting offers elsewhere or else they would be there. Loose literally took a demotion to move back to the job he held 12 years earlier to get away from Frank.

Lafalum wrote:
Also does anyone really believe we have a future head coach in our stable of assistants athletic program wide.
 Win or lose on Saturday doesn't change the equation that it's time for new direction! Having said that GoPards!!!


I thought Mikey was brought in to be the heir-apparent Rolling Eyes



I know the guys on the football staff very well, and I think a lot of them are very good coaches. The issue is that the entire program is a quagmire and I don't think anyone on the inside has the ability to regain the trust of the players that Frank has lost.



In general, I agree with LB10. From an X And O perspective, our assistant's understand their responsibilities and are dedicated to their function.

We aren't far away from success on the field but the culture has to change quickly.

The one exception I don't share is in recruiting. IMHO, this staff isn't receptive to student-athletes that are clearly merit qualified on the field and academically. There are hs players competing in very close proximity who fit the LC profile and would contribute to program success right now, but aren't recruited for various reasons. And we will, and have lost these players to teams that beat us right now, i.e. Princeton, Lehigh, and Gate. The kids I'm referencing and familiar with are closeby here in NJ.

We have the funding, facilities, and an outstanding academic model to offer kids interested in playing in the PL at Lafayette. I've visited every football playing school in the Patriot League. Our facilities and infrastructure are right at the top.


What must change is the culture and administrative direction of the program.


Yes, the culture has to change. However, it wasn't the culture that failed to block the Colgate D-linemen one-on-one, wasnt the culture that dropped a beautifully thrown pass on 3rd and long, wasnt the culture that is inept at tackling, nor confused forever in the secondary. Frank won 3 championships with an anti football administration, a deficient budget,a stadium that was falling apart and a bunch of tough kids that no one else wanted. What changed - the staff and Frank.


Exactly Andy. And to pile on, the athletes and facilities are much improved since then. Tavani's career is the poster child of where resting on your laurels gets you.

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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:18 am

Spardicus80View user's profile






Joined: 19 Oct 2016
Posts: 26







Reducing the number of sports offered is, in my opinion, a dreadful mistake.
The College has future plans to expand the overall student body by up to 400 students.  Where are they going to come from, and what will be offered when they arrive?  How will they hear about Lafayette, and what will attract them to matriculate?  The answer lies in expanding both the athletic facilities and the funding.

Currently, both the indoor track and the pool facility are too small to hold sanctioned competitive events.  When such events are held, it is not only the competitors who attend.  They bring along coaches, families, and younger brothers and sisters.  They see the school, and go home to spread the word. Athletics is a terrific marketing tool.  By reducing the number of sports offered, you reduce the chances that future student athletes visit the school or even hear about Lafayette.  It places an added strain on the admissions office to market the school.

Like any tool, the athletics department must be maintained.  Funding needs to be increased to attract good coaches, and their assistants need to be paid a competitive wage.  Likewise, there needs to be accountability at all levels.  Excellence must not simply be the goal, but the standard.  Consistent losing can't be tolerated, and everyone in the department must understand that poor performances will not be tolerated - that changes will be made if the results are substandard.

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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:23 am

PardsfriendView user's profile






Joined: 06 Oct 2014
Posts: 121







Andy wrote:
Pardsfriend wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
FB has a very stable staff, I am torn if that is good or bad. The other sports are atrocious. There is turnover for the wrong reason. Low paid assistants in losing programs does not make them attractive nor will we attract good assistants.


If you look at the football staff the stability is nice, if it is for the right reason. If you have a coach who turns down other offers to stay on his current staff that means you have a winning program and great chemistry. That is not the case with this staff, no one is getting offers elsewhere or else they would be there. Loose literally took a demotion to move back to the job he held 12 years earlier to get away from Frank.

Lafalum wrote:
Also does anyone really believe we have a future head coach in our stable of assistants athletic program wide.

I thought Mikey was brought in to be the heir-apparent Rolling Eyes



I know the guys on the football staff very well, and I think a lot of them are very good coaches. The issue is that the entire program is a quagmire and I don't think anyone on the inside has the ability to regain the trust of the players that Frank has lost.



In general, I agree with LB10. From an X And O perspective, our assistant's understand their responsibilities and are dedicated to their function.

We aren't far away from success on the field but the culture has to change quickly.

The one exception I don't share is in recruiting. IMHO, this staff isn't receptive to student-athletes that are clearly merit qualified on the field and academically. There are hs players competing in very close proximity who fit the LC profile and would contribute to program success right now, but aren't recruited for various reasons. And we will, and have lost these players to teams that beat us right now, i.e. Princeton, Lehigh, and Gate. The kids I'm referencing and familiar with are closeby here in NJ.

We have the funding, facilities, and an outstanding academic model to offer kids interested in playing in the PL at Lafayette. I've visited every football playing school in the Patriot League. Our facilities and infrastructure are right at the top.


What must change is the culture and administrative direction of the program.


Yes, the culture has to change. However, it wasn't the culture that failed to block the Colgate D-linemen one-on-one, wasnt the culture that dropped a beautifully thrown pass on 3rd and long, wasnt the culture that is inept at tackling, nor confused forever in the secondary. Frank won 3 championships with an anti football administration, a deficient budget,a stadium that was falling apart and a bunch of tough kids that no one else wanted. What changed - the staff and Frank.


 The examples you cite make my point.

That the program repeatedly makes these mistakes is in part attributable to the culture which permits them to exist over time.  The other part is our athletic administration apparently lacks metrics that holds our current staff accountable.

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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:49 am

LeopardBall10View user's profile






Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 291







BillS wrote:


I was wondering where you were Bill. Monday has come and gone and my balloons are deflated and my champagne got warm waiting for the big announcement.


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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:49 pm

BillSView user's profile






Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 1019







LeopardBall10 wrote:
BillS wrote:


I was wondering where you were Bill. Monday has come and gone and my balloons are deflated and my champagne got warm waiting for the big announcement.

Just wishful thinking with a hint of sarcasm, I respect what Frank did to resurrect the program after it was almost dead but it's almost dead again and hopefully Frank can show some class and step aside so it can resurrected again....GoPards beat Lehigh!!!
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Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:06 pm

artanisView user's profile






Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 130







Seven straight losing seasons.

Since then, with an infusion of support and dollars and improved facilities, add four classes of merit scholarship athletes...

Still, seven straight losing seasons.

Complete roster turnover, still seven straight losing seasons.

Two "studies", and the losing continues.

During the seven seasons, same exact coaching staff.

(Maybe a second study is not needed, for football anyway).
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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:07 am

LeopardBall10View user's profile






Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 291







I hate to point this out, because I really want to believe in the this new study under a new president, but I just saw that LafAlumn cited an April 15th target completion date for the study from the webcast this week. If the consultant won't finish the study until the end of the spring semester there won't be any changes made until at least the summer of 2017. And no AD or president is crazy enough to fire a coaching staff in the summer, 2 months before camp starts.

Unless Frank is already planning on "retiring" the timing of the study makes it look like we have another year with this same staff. And if Frank is retiring, how do you hire a new coach and staff while this study is going on?
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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:33 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3916







LeopardBall10 wrote:
I hate to point this out, because I really want to believe in the this new study under a new president, but I just saw that LafAlumn cited an April 15th target completion date for the study from the webcast this week. If the consultant won't finish the study until the end of the spring semester there won't be any changes made until at least the summer of 2017. And no AD or president is crazy enough to fire a coaching staff in the summer, 2 months before camp starts.

Unless Frank is already planning on "retiring" the timing of the study makes it look like we have another year with this same staff. And if Frank is retiring, how do you hire a new coach and staff while this study is going on?


As I said in the other string...there is no perfect time. It's just important it get done and something happens. If nothing changes, or we never see the conclusions it's a waste of time and will effect donations at the very least.

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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:33 am

Franks TanksView user's profile






Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 3280







LeopardBall10 wrote:
I hate to point this out, because I really want to believe in the this new study under a new president, but I just saw that LafAlumn cited an April 15th target completion date for the study from the webcast this week. If the consultant won't finish the study until the end of the spring semester there won't be any changes made until at least the summer of 2017. And no AD or president is crazy enough to fire a coaching staff in the summer, 2 months before camp starts.

Unless Frank is already planning on "retiring" the timing of the study makes it look like we have another year with this same staff. And if Frank is retiring, how do you hire a new coach and staff while this study is going on?


Your logic is of course correct.

I am hoping that while the study won't be completed for 6 months, some immediate recommendations may be shared earlier.  Like you need a new football coach.  Since we are fond of consultants, perhaps we can use a search firm or hire an outside party to help with the search.  Probably wishful thinking, but one scenario that is technically possible. But overall I agree that it appears we will see Frank again in 2017.  Pretty much no other school in the country, at any level, would put up with this.

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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:39 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3916







Franks Tanks wrote:
Pretty much no other school in the country, at any level, would put up with this.


Which we all know is the root of the problem. Remember this is NOT just football, this athletic program has not had a winning season in any sport for what now is three years or is it four years!! However, I believe this will be the last chance in my lifetime to fix it.
My donations to anything are frozen until I see the results.

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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:38 am

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 815







Frank will retire at the end of this season.  I've been told by an outsider that Frank said he was going to retire and move to his house at the beach.
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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:15 pm

BillSView user's profile






Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 1019







NewXbo wrote:
Frank will retire at the end of this season. I've been told by an outsider that Frank said he was going to retire and move to his house at the beach.
He'll love retirement at the beach 🐳🍹🌴just like me ☺
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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:02 pm

Pards RuleView user's profile






Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 1902


Location: Cherry Hill, NJ





njleopard wrote:
Can anyone pinpoint when the down fall of Lafayette athletics started? Does it coincide with a particular President? AD? BOT change? team? something else? It is shocking that Lehigh game tickets are no longer an immediate sell out and long time football and basketball fans have to force themselves to go to a game since they know they will be witnessing a lot of pain most of the time.

Even when one attends it is harder to find the loyal Leopards in the stands.


Actually I think I can. I still see Jerome Rudolph all alone in the end zone waiting for the OT TD pass (and assumed PAT which would have won the game) from Rob Curley in 2009 in Bethlehem in aq game that was ours to lose - and we did laying an egg. I'm sure Nathan Padilla still has nightmares about his fumble in the end zone. I was watching from the grassy knoll on that extremely mild day. We had a very good 2009 run ending with the heartbreaking loss to HC the week before on a TD with 6 seconds left and then the OT loss to Lehigh. We were 5 years in a losing streak to LU from 2008-12 before outlier wins against them in 2013 and #150. Can you think of any other significant win from 2010 on besides those two and the upset of Fordham the week before Lehigh in 2013? It seems that was the loss that it all came crashing down. We really havent been the same "little school on the Hill" group of overachieving "misfits" since.


Last edited by Pards Rule on Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:06 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2133







Beating Fordham in the title year was huge.

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