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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:39 pm

LeopardBall10View user's profile






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PardDad71 wrote:
So why try?  Under your theory we can never get better.   Just having some fun.   First day of Fall camp in August, UNH players go through extensive physical testing.   You can't practice with the big boys till you hit your goals.   95% of the kids hit their mark, but it is the most dreaded day of the year.   basically combine testing, running, jumping, lateral movements, lifting, etc.  

do we do anything like this?


That is not what I am saying at all. From your posts I can tell that you, like me, are a fixer. You are given a problem and then you solve it. One of the things i see far too often is that people focus on minutia or outside stimuli that are not actually the root of the issue. I feel like that is what is happening here. What is the root cause? Why not attack that?

I am 100% in agreement with you. The coaching staff does not develop players. The AD couldn't make a decision at gun point. The administration is focused elsewhere. I do think a change in the staff would create immediate improvement. And I think a new AD who believes in accountability would show even more drastic improvement. But if we want to seriously achieve to the level we think our little school on the hill is capable of we really need to study why Lehigh wins consistently and has forever and we are mediocre and have been forever.
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:42 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






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Location: Bethlehem, PA





Andy - while I enjoy you joining us on the dark side of things - I NEED you to recover by August! Nobody does better at getting us hopeful than you -  the fact that you're ticked speaks volumes.

Otherwise the only optimism will be from freshman parents who will remind us that their kids came from winning programs and things are just about to change!

Andy wrote:
Franks Tanks wrote:
2017 preview

Sacred Heart loss- they have lower academic standards, how can we compete with that?

Nova loss- they have a few more scholarship than we do and allow red shirting.

Harvard and Princeton- they have larger rosters so we just don't have the depth to compete.

League opponents- they let in kids we can't as we ignore the fact that we are ranked near the bottom of the league in admission stats.  

Also throw in injuries, young team and next year anywhere and anytime you feel.  

All primed for a big improvement to a 3 win season in 2017!


And a ? at QB.

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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:52 pm

KpardView user's profile






Joined: 07 Nov 2011
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LeopardBall10 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
Strength and conditioning also needs to be looked at as part of this study for FB, MBB, and probably the entire athletic dept. We seem to always have a lot of injuries. As far as bball, from an untrained eye, some of the skinny kids we recruit never seem to get any bigger or stronger from year to year.


Again, you are missing the point! Why focus on strength and conditioning when the coaches change, regiments change, etc. It has never mattered. There was never a time that we were great and then got worse.

There is something here more systematic at work. No matter who is in leadership, what we are spending, who we are playing we are a 6-5 team who can hope for a 7 or 8 win season twice a decade but almost never back to back. What is the real problem. Everything else is simply ancillary.

-----------------------
Edit: And this is not to say that I don't agree with you. Because I pretty much do. We can improve in almost every aspect of what we do athletically at Lafayette College. But trying to focus on these things is missing the fact that there is an underlying problem that has never been addressed.


Not missing your point. I agree. This is just another ingredient in the not needing to win mentality.
I recall a recruit who accepted a basketball scholarship stating one of his reasons was LC doesn't have a summer program. Since he still looks like he did as a froshman, I guess he's taking that seriously.

If you are playing D-1 hoops with the big boys, you need to practice and train like the big boys. Maybe we do, IDK, but it is hard to hide your physique in a basketball uniform. Other teams usually look stronger overall.
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:18 pm

bison137View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1378







Kpard wrote:
LeopardBall10 wrote:
Kpard wrote:
Strength and conditioning also needs to be looked at as part of this study for FB, MBB, and probably the entire athletic dept. We seem to always have a lot of injuries. As far as bball, from an untrained eye, some of the skinny kids we recruit never seem to get any bigger or stronger from year to year.


Again, you are missing the point! Why focus on strength and conditioning when the coaches change, regiments change, etc. It has never mattered. There was never a time that we were great and then got worse.

There is something here more systematic at work. No matter who is in leadership, what we are spending, who we are playing we are a 6-5 team who can hope for a 7 or 8 win season twice a decade but almost never back to back. What is the real problem. Everything else is simply ancillary.

-----------------------
Edit: And this is not to say that I don't agree with you. Because I pretty much do. We can improve in almost every aspect of what we do athletically at Lafayette College. But trying to focus on these things is missing the fact that there is an underlying problem that has never been addressed.


Not missing your point. I agree. This is just another ingredient in the not needing to win mentality.
I recall a recruit who accepted a basketball scholarship stating one of his reasons was LC doesn't have a summer program. Since he still looks like he did as a froshman, I guess he's taking that seriously.

If you are playing D-1 hoops with the big boys, you need to practice and train like the big boys. Maybe we do, IDK, but it is hard to hide your physique in a basketball uniform. Other teams usually look stronger overall.



A lot of PL basketball programs, including Bucknell, don't have summer programs for that sport.   I don't think it really matters - assuming the players take their training seriously wherever they happen to spend the summer.   There are plenty of good summer leagues and plenty of good strength and conditioning programs in most parts of the country.

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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:31 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6146







The Maroon wrote:
Andy wrote:
NewXbo wrote:
Does anybody now the OOC schedule for next season?


Sacred Heart
Villanova
Princeton
Harvard
One TBD.

As published in the Media Guide, next 3 seasons all need an 11th game.


Geezus...Let's hope we're judicious with the TBD. I guess anything is better than a return to West Point - but as someone else pointed out, we need some W's!


Army in 2018. Holy Cross said to be scheduling 2 FBS games per season in near future.  Need to pay for 60 full....if we can get College to let the money stay within the program.  Tavani said Army pays a disappointing sum($100k ?) while Gate got $400k at Cuse.  If we're gonna get slaughtered by Army, might as well get a payday out of it at Rutgers. (wish we didn't need the $ cause I hate the guarantee games)

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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:35 pm

NE LeopardView user's profile






Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 178







Andy wrote:
The Maroon wrote:
Andy wrote:
NewXbo wrote:
Does anybody now the OOC schedule for next season?


Sacred Heart
Villanova
Princeton
Harvard
One TBD.

As published in the Media Guide, next 3 seasons all need an 11th game.


Geezus...Let's hope we're judicious with the TBD. I guess anything is better than a return to West Point - but as someone else pointed out, we need some W's!


Army in 2018. Holy Cross said to be scheduling 2 FBS games per season in near future.  Need to pay for 60 full....if we can get College to let the money stay within the program.  Tavani said Army pays a disappointing sum($100k ?) while Gate got $400k at Cuse.


Fun fact...Wagner, who went 1-10 last year (our only win) ended up at 6-5 this season with 2 FBS games (UMASS and BC), 1 D2 game, and 1 NAIA game, plus they beat the NEC champ St. Francis. Is it coaching, scheduling, or luck?

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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:13 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 1306







The Maroon wrote:
Redshirts? 800 SAT scores? Charleston Southern? New Hampshire?

What does any of this have to do with the fact that we are currently the bitch of the Patriot League? That there is no discernible improvement in talent with scholarships?

But next  year...next year....

We've sunk so far that we're yearning for the seemingly endless cycle of 5-6 years that we can justifiably attribute to Weis.

Tavani has failed in the scholarship era. Yes - most of the department has struggled - but he has done the worst with the most. Yeah - point to a few guys who can play and say "the talent is there."

No - it's not.

For everyone you can name who more than belongs at this level (my GOD please spare me the crap about how the kids came from good HIGH SCHOOL teams and thus "know how to win") I can name another who NOBODY wanted. Of course I won't do that publicly -  but you're living in a fantasy world if you think we're winning the recruiting war. YES - undoubtedly - we're getting some kids who could have gone a lot of places, and we're getting more than our share who couldn't.

We're losing league games by 3 TD's folks. That's not because we can't admit kids who notched 800 on their SAT or that CAA schools can take idiots.


Maroon, my comment was directed at some that think we can compete with CAA and others. I think not and that is the point I was making. But being up close to this and other programs, there are a lot of reasons we lose.

Trust me, enough of my life has been spent watching how we can't compete. I get it. You almost get numb to the losing and the way the culture tolerates it. The kids have to find a way to block it out or it can really tear you down mentally. Maybe that ended today but I doubt it.

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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:45 am

Jpao92View user's profile






Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 121


Location: New Jersey





Monster, out!  

Time to move on.

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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:51 am

PardDad71View user's profile






Joined: 09 Nov 2016
Posts: 166







LeopardBall10 wrote:
PardDad71 wrote:
So why try?  Under your theory we can never get better.   Just having some fun.   First day of Fall camp in August, UNH players go through extensive physical testing.   You can't practice with the big boys till you hit your goals.   95% of the kids hit their mark, but it is the most dreaded day of the year.   basically combine testing, running, jumping, lateral movements, lifting, etc.  

do we do anything like this?


That is not what I am saying at all. From your posts I can tell that you, like me, are a fixer. You are given a problem and then you solve it. One of the things i see far too often is that people focus on minutia or outside stimuli that are not actually the root of the issue. I feel like that is what is happening here. What is the root cause? Why not attack that?

I am 100% in agreement with you. The coaching staff does not develop players. The AD couldn't make a decision at gun point. The administration is focused elsewhere. I do think a change in the staff would create immediate improvement. And I think a new AD who believes in accountability would show even more drastic improvement. But if we want to seriously achieve to the level we think our little school on the hill is capable of we really need to study why Lehigh wins consistently and has forever and we are mediocre and have been forever.


I think we are on the same road.   Everything we do needs to be challenged.  Not to say changed, but challenged.  From recruiting/admissions, to practice plans, offseason conditioning, investments in coaches, and the brand of football we play.    I think the only thing not on the table is we need to stay FCS and PL

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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:38 am

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6146







NE Leopard wrote:

It appears there will be a number of potential medical redshirts out of the sophomore and junior classes. I can think of at least 5 or 6 that include Root, Greiser, Lonardo, Kern, Avent, Butler. It will be interesting when it is time for them to decide to stay, or move on. I feel much will depend on whether this team starts winning and what the potential may be when they have to make that decision. Obviously with the 3 defensive linemen (Rothrock, Labudev, and Cepeda) that are rumored to be exercising their redshirt year in the spring, the team will be better off for it.


Looks like Cepeda is not returning.

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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:30 am

zenatorView user's profile






Joined: 17 Dec 2015
Posts: 78







Why the negativity?

Most posters here wanted Frank fired? He was. Most wanted the staff replaced. They likely will be. Most wanted LC to commit to winning. LC retained a respected consultant.

IMO, LC has the talent (if properly developed and put in the right system) to  achieve a winning record next year. That can and will happen if HC is willing to invest the money needed to hire a top staff as well as a new HC.

Hopefully, it is the dawn of a new day.

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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:25 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 1306







zenator wrote:
Why the negativity?

Most posters here wanted Frank fired? He was. Most wanted the staff replaced. They likely will be. Most wanted LC to commit to winning. LC retained a respected consultant.

IMO, LC has the talent (if properly developed and put in the right system) to  achieve a winning record next year. That can and will happen if HC is willing to invest the money needed to hire a top staff as well as a new HC.

Hopefully, it is the dawn of a new day.


The talent is better than the record. Not saying dramatic changes but this level of talent could be better with a different direction.

I am happy LC is making a change in all its athletics, not just football. Sometimes I get angry when I see a school with so much potential and it's gets squandered. Right or wrong I look at things from a business view and I see a business with tremendous potential being held back by leadership.

My only regret is my son never lived through a good program and will not at LC. He does have his friendships and eventually a degree. It's tougher for a player than an alumni to live through this. For the player you have one shot to play. For an alumni there is always next year.

I look back over the years when my son chose LC. Frankly I tried to talk him into other schools, including other Patriot League schools. But he liked the campus, the small classes and he absolutely loved Coach John Loose. Some of you don't realize how much we lost with him. He is more re than a coach. High morals, high ethics, discipline, leader, passionate. Broke our heart when he left. Plus he played the defense my son was made to play. Link came in and while a really good guy, plays a defense that got rid of my sons position. Life gives you lemons and you try to make lemonade. It's all you can do.

Fortunately my son has another year left. But for LC we really hope they get it right in the football change as well as the whole athletic department. I hate to not be optimistic but I have seen so many screw ups you get a little skeptical. They have made the first good decision. Now it's time for another one with the coach selection. Hopefully the changes go way beyond this.

Not to Ben political but I see Wilber Ross may be commerce secretary. I have worked with him and for him. He can be ruthless but he can turn around a bad business. Though not without pain. Hopefully we find our Wilber Ross. Or to keep it in football terms, hopefully we find our coach Rocco, Coach Fleck, coach Franklin, someone who can turn it around.

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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:29 pm

flyfisherView user's profile






Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 1306







Andy wrote:
NE Leopard wrote:

It appears there will be a number of potential medical redshirts out of the sophomore and junior classes. I can think of at least 5 or 6 that include Root, Greiser, Lonardo, Kern, Avent, Butler. It will be interesting when it is time for them to decide to stay, or move on. I feel much will depend on whether this team starts winning and what the potential may be when they have to make that decision. Obviously with the 3 defensive linemen (Rothrock, Labudev, and Cepeda) that are rumored to be exercising their redshirt year in the spring, the team will be better off for it.


Looks like Cepeda is not returning.


It's easier to go somewhere else and get a fresh stat but more important a better atmosphere and the chance to eithe start grad school or at least take some grad school classes. I know this will hurt some feelings but when you have a year left and the opportunity to play somewhere else in a positive environment you can't blame the kids for that. It's  like getting a do over. You already have your degree, the guys you came in with are gone, some see it as a chance to move on to the next phase of your life.

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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:06 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6146







As far as I know, the athletic scholarships are renewable annually by the college. The college does the right thing and pays all four years after injury. They are not obligated to. It's at least debatable whether it's right to not give the school your full four years of football when capable. Seems they want to take their money and run. Double dip the system.

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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:12 pm

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3916







Andy wrote:
As far as I know, the athletic scholarships are renewable annually by the college. The college does the right thing and pays all four years after injury. They are not obligated to. It's at least debatable whether it's right to not give the school your full four years of football when capable. Seems they want to take their money and run. Double dip the system.


I think you are incorrect, if you are injured the school is still obliged to pay your scholarship. It may not count as an athletic scholarship for quota purposes by the NCAA. I am too lazy to look it up, I am sure 137 will know the regs by heart!!

The school is not obliged to pay four years if you don't meet other obligations, like staying eligible or for reasons of breaking team rules, like using drugs etc. I do know of one case (not football) where an athlete lost their scholarship for reasons of academic ineligibility ( and other reasons). The athlete had to leave school. It went to a review committee and affirmed.

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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:34 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6146







First article with a quick search:

http://www.news-press.com/story/s...ot-four-year-guarantees/74009542/

It’s something many college coaches on the recruiting trail have implied – or flat-out promised – to families in their living rooms for decades: four-year athletic scholarships.

Upon the start of each new college season, though, fans, media and others scrolling team rosters are often left wondering: “What happened to (fill in the name)?”

Because they’re gone.

Beginning this fall, schools in the “power five” conferences – the SEC, ACC, Big 10, Big 12 and Pac 12 – mandated four-year scholarships for their athletes following January’s passage of landmark rules changes.

The changes, including the more widely discussed “cost-of-attendance” stipends now being awarded at the biggest universities, were made in response to growing unrest over the vast sums of money being grossed in high-profile college sports that don’t go to the athletes themselves.

But prior to this season, and as is still the case at the far larger number of schools outside the power five, such as FGCU, an alternate reality exists.

It’s something many college coaches on the recruiting trail have implied – or flat-out promised – to families in their living rooms for decades: four-year athletic scholarships.

Upon the start of each new college season, though, fans, media and others scrolling team rosters are often left wondering: “What happened to (fill in the name)?”

Because they’re gone.

Beginning this fall, schools in the “power five” conferences – the SEC, ACC, Big 10, Big 12 and Pac 12 – mandated four-year scholarships for their athletes following January’s passage of landmark rules changes.

The changes, including the more widely discussed “cost-of-attendance” stipends now being awarded at the biggest universities, were made in response to growing unrest over the vast sums of money being grossed in high-profile college sports that don’t go to the athletes themselves.

But prior to this season, and as is still the case at the far larger number of schools outside the power five, such as FGCU, an alternate reality exists.

The reality is: scholarships are only for one year, and they’re renewable at the school’s discretion.

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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:36 pm

zenatorView user's profile






Joined: 17 Dec 2015
Posts: 78







Andy wrote:
NE Leopard wrote:

It appears there will be a number of potential medical redshirts out of the sophomore and junior classes. I can think of at least 5 or 6 that include Root, Greiser, Lonardo, Kern, Avent, Butler. It will be interesting when it is time for them to decide to stay, or move on. I feel much will depend on whether this team starts winning and what the potential may be when they have to make that decision. Obviously with the 3 defensive linemen (Rothrock, Labudev, and Cepeda) that are rumored to be exercising their redshirt year in the spring, the team will be better off for it.


Looks like Cepeda is not returning.


Too bad about Cepeda. I also heard that the LC coaching staff finally got wise regarding the proper use of medical redshirts. Also apparently used medical redshirts on a couple of freshman that the team really liked and wanted to extend their eligibility.

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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:56 pm

SIDELINERView user's profile






Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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Location: PA





zenator wrote:
Andy wrote:
NE Leopard wrote:

It appears there will be a number of potential medical redshirts out of the sophomore and junior classes. I can think of at least 5 or 6 that include Root, Greiser, Lonardo, Kern, Avent, Butler. It will be interesting when it is time for them to decide to stay, or move on. I feel much will depend on whether this team starts winning and what the potential may be when they have to make that decision. Obviously with the 3 defensive linemen (Rothrock, Labudev, and Cepeda) that are rumored to be exercising their redshirt year in the spring, the team will be better off for it.


Looks like Cepeda is not returning.


Too bad about Cepeda. I also heard that the LC coaching staff finally got wise regarding the proper use of medical redshirts. Also apparently used medical redshirts on a couple of freshman that the team really liked and wanted to extend their eligibility.


If I have it correct, coaches don't just decide to redshirt a kid. It has to be for a legitimate injury that would have forced him to miss the season -- as with Dante Lonardo missing the 2015 season and having four years of eligibility remaining. But a player can't apply for the medical until his senior year, and by that time he may have decided that he'd just as soon graduate with his original class, as Chris Brockman did. Brockman then went on to Colorado school of Mines, started taking grad courses and played his fourth season of football.  But not playing as a freshman doesn't automatically give you a fifth year. QB McCrum is a good example. He has not played, but if he is able to play the next three years, I don't think he would qualify for a fift year because he was not injured this season. That's a long-winded comment, and I hope it's correct. Someone will fact-check it.

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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:08 pm

BillSView user's profile






Joined: 02 Apr 2007
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[quote="SIDELINER:58538"]
zenator wrote:
Andy wrote:
NE Leopard wrote:

It appears there will be a number of potential medical redshirts out of the sophomore and junior classes. I can think of at least 5 or 6 that include Root, Greiser, Lonardo, Kern, Avent, Butler. It will be interesting when it is time for them to decide to stay, or move on. I feel much will depend on whether this team starts winning and what the potential may be when they have to make that decision. Obviously with the 3 defensive linemen (Rothrock, Labudev, and Cepeda) that are rumored to be exercising their redshirt year in the spring, the team will be better off for it.


Looks like Cepeda is not returning.


Too bad about Cepeda. I also heard that the LC coaching staff finally got wise regarding the proper use of medical redshirts. Also apparently used medical redshirts on a couple of freshman that the team really liked and wanted to extend their eligibility.


If I have it correct, coaches don't just decide to redshirt a kid. It has to be for a legitimate injury that would have forced him to miss the season -- as with Dante Lonardo missing the 2015 season and having four years of eligibility remaining. But a player can't apply for the medical until his senior year, and by that time he may have decided that he'd just as soon graduate with his original class, as Chris Brockman did. Brockman then went on to Colorado school of Mines, started taking grad courses and played his fourth season of football.  But not playing as a freshman doesn't automatically give you a fifth year. QB McCrum is a good example. He has not played, but if he is able to play the next three years, I don't think he would qualify for a fift year because he was not injured this season. That's a long-winded comment, and I hope it's correct.
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:12 pm

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3916







SIDELINER wrote:
zenator wrote:
Andy wrote:
NE Leopard wrote:

It appears there will be a number of potential medical redshirts out of the sophomore and junior classes. I can think of at least 5 or 6 that include Root, Greiser, Lonardo, Kern, Avent, Butler. It will be interesting when it is time for them to decide to stay, or move on. I feel much will depend on whether this team starts winning and what the potential may be when they have to make that decision. Obviously with the 3 defensive linemen (Rothrock, Labudev, and Cepeda) that are rumored to be exercising their redshirt year in the spring, the team will be better off for it.


Looks like Cepeda is not returning.


Too bad about Cepeda. I also heard that the LC coaching staff finally got wise regarding the proper use of medical redshirts. Also apparently used medical redshirts on a couple of freshman that the team really liked and wanted to extend their eligibility.


If I have it correct, coaches don't just decide to redshirt a kid. It has to be for a legitimate injury that would have forced him to miss the season -- as with Dante Lonardo missing the 2015 season and having four years of eligibility remaining. But a player can't apply for the medical until his senior year, and by that time he may have decided that he'd just as soon graduate with his original class, as Chris Brockman did. Brockman then went on to Colorado school of Mines, started taking grad courses and played his fourth season of football.  But not playing as a freshman doesn't automatically give you a fifth year. QB McCrum is a good example. He has not played, but if he is able to play the next three years, I don't think he would qualify for a fift year because he was not injured this season. That's a long-winded comment, and I hope it's correct. Someone will fact-check it.


I believe that is a PL rule only.

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