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Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:44 pm
curiousgeorge
Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
Well, I keep waiting to see someone calling for Tammy's head after last night's disaster at Lehigh. Is this already in the works so nobody needs to talk about it here?
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:56 am
TheTruth
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
isn't Lehigh one of the favorites to win the league?
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:49 pm
bison137
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 206
TheTruth wrote:
isn't Lehigh one of the favorites to win the league?
Yes - LU and AU look like the two best teams right now.
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:21 pm
Andy
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 859
In view of the absolutely embarrassing 2nd half performance, it's hard to believe we beat lehigh twice last year. We seemed similarly lost offensively vs HC earlier this year at home 2nd half. It's one thing to have a talent differential, but you'd like to at least see them trying to execute a plan. I wouldnt pretend to have a smidgeon of Tammy's basketball knowledge, but Garner sitting half the game seems crazy, even if not scoring she does so many other things. It probably wouldnt have mattered, but did anyone else think Tammy went to the freshmen too early, at least with 3 on the court at once?
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:37 pm
cr
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 174
I'll trade your coach for mine with no draft picks involved. _________________ Go Gate!
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:24 pm
Xboreturns
Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 231
From my seat, I saw us have 25 turnovers (none by the coaches), I saw us have the ball stolen by LU 13 times (none of those from the coaches), I saw us give up 36 points in the paint to LU (none given up by the coaches), I saw us shoot 28% from the floor, 20% from the arc and 60% from the line in the second half (none of the misses by the coaches).
The TOs and the steals are on the players, that's simple.
LUs points in the paint are because they have better post players. Maybe they recruited better but I think a lot of is they are well coached and have improved. All their post players have nice back to the basket moves and can use their off hand to score. From what I've seen, our offense usually has the post player away from the basket and most of our paint points come from Wright driving into the lane.
LU definitely stepped it up on the defensive end to start the second half, we did not respond. I've seen a lot of games where we just don't seem to have the mental toughness needed when the other team steps it up. We have too many games where we have only one good half.
Looking at Garner, Serowoky, and McGorry, it looks to me like the freshman were the most effective in this game:
Garner 20 min, 2 rbds, 0 pts, 3 TOs
Serowoky 20 min, 4 rbds, 4 pts, 1 TO
McGorry 20 min, 4 rbds, 9 pts, 2 TOs
I'd like to hear curiousgeorge's reasons for calling for a coaching change. I'm not saying that's not the answer but I'd like to hear how a change would improve the team, keeping in mind that we are only in the second real year of scholarships.
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:04 pm
Andy
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 859
Xboreturns wrote:
Looking at Garner, Serowoky, and McGorry, it looks to me like the freshman were the most effective in this game:
Garner 20 min, 2 rbds, 0 pts, 3 TOs
Serowoky 20 min, 4 rbds, 4 pts, 1 TO
McGorry 20 min, 4 rbds, 9 pts, 2 TOs
That's cause you cant see any more, get some new readers. Emily 4 rebounds, Serowocky 2, but that wouldnt change my mind in any event as to what Garner brings. I thought MCGorry played pretty well.
Sorry missed you post game, we like that short cut!
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:48 pm
The Maroon
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 459
Location: Bethlehem, PA
curiousgeorge wrote:
Well, I keep waiting to see someone calling for Tammy's head after last night's disaster at Lehigh. Is this already in the works so nobody needs to talk about it here?
Calling for any hoops coach head based on one game--in this case a half--would be inane. It was a road game, and let's not dismiss the fact that Lehigh is pretty darn good. It kinda sucks that Prosser is a sophomore huh? We really don't match up well with them, anywhere. I'm with Andy, it's hard to believe we beat these guys twice last year.
So when we're talking about Tammy we have to look at the big picture--the overall health of the program. Last year someone called me the human windshield wiper when it came to evaluating this progam--and I have to admit that poster was right. I can make a compelling case both ways depending on what I happen to be concentrating on.
I wanted Tammy out two seasons ago. It''s somewhere in the archives and I can't deny it. We had gone through another sub-par season and our first class of scholarship recruits wasn't doing much.
Well time has made it obvious that Tammy and Fran both got a raw deal that year---trying to recruit under the "hope" that we might get scholarships couldn't have been easy. It's ironic that the signature player from that class for both teams is a physically imposing but somewhat limited post player.
Then last year came and we seemed to "break through" with 14 wins. We welcomed Keisha Wright---the type of player we couldn't get near without scholarships. Throw in Virgin and we had two legitimate scholarship players to build on, a solid, experienced senior class and I was thinking we could match last years effort---and probably go 7-7 in the league and finally...gasp...finally...win a tournament game after a decade.
And this years frosh aren't slouches either. Sara and Alex are gonna make a lot of noise before they are through. I was way down on Downey but she's starting to show some flash. So I'll say it, we've gotten two pretty good classes. It would be insane to call for Tammy's head now...right?
But....
We aren't a good three point shooting team right now--and 78% of our treys are coming from seniors Zavocki and Spicer. Tammy's early teams sorely lacked zone-busters and we all know how that went (OK, there were a lot more problems--no denying that). Unlike most of you I really don't mind our offense, it's VBK's offense---which never got people out of their seat but purists dorks like me enjoy it....when it's done well. For it to be done well we need a post players with good hands and are very good passers. Serowsky and McGorry have the fundamentals and skills to become those players, but playing with their back to the basket and passing from the elbow doesn't seem to be their game.
Still, on the whole these girls (the frosh and sophs) are a step faster, a few pounds stronger, a bit bigger---the program is headed up. We shouldn't have to deal with 3-27 for a long time. Still, I don't know if we're going to be contending for a title anytime soon...and ultimately isn't that what it's all about?
I'll feel a lot better if we get a couple of girls who can drain 3's. They ARE out there...
Tough game tomorrow night. I certainly hope to be there!! _________________ I bleed Maroon
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:40 am
TheRock90
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Easton
You guys know a lot more about the womens team than I do. I've only seen a handful of their games. But I have a few questions about what has been referred to as the VBK offense. I'm sure we all know that Butch and Carril were the last two guys to use this type of offense with success. Of course Butch is dead and Pete has returned to the left coast.
The womens offense does not seem the same as the Matt Roberts days when the ball went to the high post on almost every possession and the center got one or more touches each time down the court. This was not the offense Coach Smith ran at Muhlenberg, where she had good sucess.
So my questions are. 1. Why did she change her offensive philosophy? 2. Where did she learn the VBK offense? 3. Now that we have scholarships and are able to attract better athletes and players, is it the right offense to be using?
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:42 pm
The Maroon
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 459
Location: Bethlehem, PA
TheRock90 wrote:
You guys know a lot more about the womens team than I do. I've only seen a handful of their games. But I have a few questions about what has been referred to as the VBK offense. I'm sure we all know that Butch and Carril were the last two guys to use this type of offense with success. Of course Butch is dead and Pete has returned to the left coast.
The womens offense does not seem the same as the Matt Roberts days when the ball went to the high post on almost every possession and the center got one or more touches each time down the court. This was not the offense Coach Smith ran at Muhlenberg, where she had good sucess.
So my questions are. 1. Why did she change her offensive philosophy? 2. Where did she learn the VBK offense? 3. Now that we have scholarships and are able to attract better athletes and players, is it the right offense to be using?
Well you cited a great name when it comes to VBK's offense--nobody ran it better than Matt Roberts.
Purr was getting it down as time went on, and I am gonna play the "what if" game and say if she were healthy last season--the team could've been something special.
There are nuances that differentiate Carril and VBK's offense, but they both requires post players who pass well and strong 3-point shooters to make it work. It's about crisp passes with a hope to catch the defense either overplaying or napping. VBK is more of a series of 3 man games and doesn't necesarrily require starting from the high post. There's a lot to it--more than I could ever know, but it's about tiring out the defense, slowing down the game, keeping the other teams possesions to a minimum and ideally---chomping up the lesser coached teams. We should get a good number of high-percentage shots out of it.
And let's face it, most of the time we don't run it that well. We don't have the bombers and we turn the ball over way too much. We average 5 shots less/game than our opponents and considering we do a nice job rebounding and playing defense---the problem (as even the most casual fan can see) is turnovers. There was hope we made a breakthrough against Bucknell, then we saw the debacle against Lehigh. We play strong defense, do well on the boards and somehow manage to stay level headed even when things are disintegrating. As a PL coach I really wouldn't like playing us---we're an enigma.
I remember when Tammy came to town with her aggressive defense and attacking offense and we all saw what a complete mess that was. The players Pat Fisher left to her weren't fast, and even as Tammy recruited (this is pure conjecture on my part) she couldn't get those type of players---especially as the rest of the league started handing out rides. I think (more conjecture, I don't know tammy, or anybody else on the team--or even a parent of a team member) Tammy figured out that she couldn't keep trying to outrun other teams and started working out ways to outthink them.
Still when it comes to the overall health of the program, the windshield wiper swings. I LOVE Wright, Virgin, McGorry, Downey and Serowoky--but if we're gonna have any serious success over the next couple seasons (and I won't give up on this one, I'm just talking big-picture for now) then Jackson and Virgin are going to have to be consistent three point threats--I wouldn't mind seeing Leone more (assuming she's at least solid from 3 over a period of time, not just the few minutes we've seen her) ...Remember, if you have to cover a shooter, it gives more room for the post players. Wright doesn't need much room, I don't think Downey or Serowoky do either. Maybe there's a freshman coming in who can drain 3's.
Of course, while we played superbly without Spicer for a period of time last week---it doesn't completely negate how poorly we play without her most of the time.
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