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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:27 am
Franks Tanks
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 532
Lafalum wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
this issue with fraternities affects the classes in the late 70's to mid 90's. These classes are nearing their peak earning years with the older classes finishing with sending their kids to college. There is a huge disconnect with this era of alumni that the college, if it continues operating with this veil of secrecy, will not reach. I had a long conversation with an alumni who graduated in 1980. He refuses to give to the College because he doesn't recognize Lafayette anymore. It is an issue.
Believe me it is an issue for the 50's and 60's too. I do not trust the school to take my estate issues seriously. We are about to have one of the largest transfers of generational wealth in history and between the arrogance of the faculty, the chicanery of the administration and the cluelessness of the BOT, Lafayette will be scrambling and failing to raise the money it will need in the next ten years. There is NO WAY IN HELL there could be a successful 400 mio dollar campaign in the next 5 years!!
It really saddens me because I thought Weis would lead us to better things but he is a willing stooge to a dufuss Board and a selfish faculty.
Where the hell is my generational wealth transfer!
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:32 am
LC Fan
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 13
I read these rants and think to myself to what do Lafayette alums want the College to aspire? Do they simply want Lafayette to be another ordinary school in a competitive sea of ordinary institutions? Is it good enough for our alums to have winning sports teams but losing records for graduate school admissions and job placement? Is it good enough for Lafayette to turn out grads who spend four years sitting on a frat couch trying to figure out how to sneak a beer?
The world has changed. It is more competitive on every level and the atmosphere at Lafayette has to change as well. I want my child to grow during his four years and the best way to do that is for him to be exposed to all that the school can offer. If that means that he's forced off that couch and must get involved in the college community so be it. That's why I'm spending $200,000 on his education.
Time for the ranters on this board to get off their couches, get away from their keyboard, and help the College move forward rather than back to the stone age when they went to school.
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:56 am
Franks Tanks
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 532
LC Fan wrote:
I read these rants and think to myself to what do Lafayette alums want the College to aspire? Do they simply want Lafayette to be another ordinary school in a competitive sea of ordinary institutions? Is it good enough for our alums to have winning sports teams but losing records for graduate school admissions and job placement? Is it good enough for Lafayette to turn out grads who spend four years sitting on a frat couch trying to figure out how to sneak a beer?
The world has changed. It is more competitive on every level and the atmosphere at Lafayette has to change as well. I want my child to grow during his four years and the best way to do that is for him to be exposed to all that the school can offer. If that means that he's forced off that couch and must get involved in the college community so be it. That's why I'm spending $200,000 on his education.
Time for the ranters on this board to get off their couches, get away from their keyboard, and help the College move forward rather than back to the stone age when they went to school.
I respectfully disagree. What makes Lafayette special is what we are losing right now. Schools like Lafayette, Lehigh, Bucknell, Colgate, Dartmouth and perhaps a few others are unique because they are places where smart and motivated kids can go and still have a social life. These school have always attracted the type of kids who hit the books, but are also very social and athletic. This is precisley the Lafayette niche and it is being taken away. Lafayette was ANYTHING but ordinary, but the admin is making it more like other Liberal arts school and placing us firmly with the pack. I guess you would prefer D-III athletics like most LAC's?
You already have plenty of options for LAC full of nerds who never leave the Library, or want to have global warming protests all day. Schools like Swarthmore, Haverford, Grinell, Carelton, Bowdin, Bates, Colby and many other already fill that niche quite well. Why cant we maintain ours?
The fact is that Lafayette (and other PL schools) are extraordinary for what they are today. They produce smart, motivated, educated graduates that also have social and leadership skills. These are precisely the type of people who are most successful in life. If we follow the admin's plan (and the one you seem to favor) we will just fall in line with the other LAC out there and offer nothing different. A Lafayette students will be the same as a Swarthmore student and that is just not desirable for many alums.
If you want to wear sandals and read poerty and drink coffee-- and desire to be an English prof go to Swarthmore.
If you want to study hard and play hard -- and desire to be a business leader, or attorney, or are motivated by money go to Lafayette. We have (had) our niche and it was a superb one. That is being destroyed in favor of another Swarthmore light.
The change you seem to advocate will actually have the exact conesequences you fear IMO. If Lafayette becomes more like other LAC's we will lose because its all the same, we no longer offer something different.
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:03 pm
Lafalum
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 843
Couldn't agree more. I have never hired or even wanted to hire a graduate of Swathmore, Williams, Haverford et al.. And all things being equal I hired athletes before I hired a kid who did nothing but occupy a seat in the library for four years. Higher education and Lafayette is becoming lazy. The AVERAGE grade is now 3.2, you need only 4 courses a semester to graduate, the faculty want to teach only 2 courses a semester, and have a whole year off every 7 years and get paid and average of 95,000 dollars a year!!!
It is the only industry that is becoming less efficient. We have empty unused buildings during the summer and our ratio of adiministrators to students is among the highest in PL if not the nation!!
They want more money each year from alumni and then ignore their desires and don't want to listen to them. The leadership on the BOT has not turned over in 15 maybe 20 years. They take your money and use it for other puposes.
Last point, do you really in your heart believe that your son/daughter gets a better academic experience at Lafayette than they would at the 'honors" programs of Penn State, Maryland, UNC, Michigan. All of which even for out of state students is cheaper!! By their very size they have a diversity of courses we can't match.
The difference at Lafayette is they can join a frat, a sorority, be a member of a Div 1 team, a club team,have a variety of simultaneous leadership experiences, or whatever. The academic exposure maybe even be superior at the other schools espeically in those honor programs. So for Lafayette to trash, short fund, or otherwise cripple those things that make us unique is to destroy the school and the experience for the next generation of students.
Because we are a small undergraduate school we will never retain or attract the "rock star" professor but we should have competent dedicated teachers that can transfer the love of learning and understand that the TRUE basis of a liberal undergraduate education includes the variety of experiences a school like Lafayette can offer!!
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:37 pm
Franks Tanks
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 532
Lafalum wrote:
Couldn't agree more. I have never hired or even wanted to hire a graduate of Swathmore, Williams, Haverford et al.. And all things being equal I hired athletes before I hired a kid who did nothing but occupy a seat in the library for four years. Higher education and Lafayette is becoming lazy. The AVERAGE grade is now 3.2, you need only 4 courses a semester to graduate, the faculty want to teach only 2 courses a semester, and have a whole year off every 7 years and get paid and average of 95,000 dollars a year!!!
It is the only industry that is becoming less efficient. We have empty unused buildings during the summer and our ratio of adiministrators to students is among the highest in PL if not the nation!!
They want more money each year from alumni and then ignore their desires and don't want to listen to them. The leadership on the BOT has not turned over in 15 maybe 20 years. They take your money and use it for other puposes.
Last point, do you really in your heart believe that your son/daughter gets a better academic experience at Lafayette than they would at the 'honors" programs of Penn State, Maryland, UNC, Michigan. All of which even for out of state students is cheaper!! By their very size they have a diversity of courses we can't match.
The difference at Lafayette is they can join a frat, a sorority, be a member of a Div 1 team, a club team,have a variety of simultaneous leadership experiences, or whatever. The academic exposure maybe even be superior at the other schools espeically in those honor programs. So for Lafayette to trash, short fund, or otherwise cripple those things that make us unique is to destroy the school and the experience for the next generation of students.
Because we are a small undergraduate school we will never retain or attract the "rock star" professor but we should have competent dedicated teachers that can transfer the love of learning and understand that the TRUE basis of a liberal undergraduate education includes the variety of experiences a school like Lafayette can offer!!
Thanks Lafalum-- one comment is regarding the Honors program at leading state universities vs. a school like Lafayette. I do believe if you have a very specific interest in a hard science, or desire to do a deep dive in a narrow field those universities offer better opps in many way. As good as our science departments are they simply cannot match the depth and breath of some of these science or very specific programs at quality state research universities.
However, if you want small classes, a well rounded education, life long aptitude to learn, and enough skills to prepare you for most jobs or careers sought by those with a Bachelors-- You really cant go wrong with an LAC, and its all about finding one that best fit your personality and skil level.
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:49 pm
LC Fan
Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 13
Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
To think that there's not an opportunity for a social scene at Lafayette except for fraternities and sororities is just plain wrong. Holing up in a frat house waiting for the world to come to you isn't what makes Lafayette special!
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:57 pm
Franks Tanks
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 532
LC Fan wrote:
Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
To think that there's not an opportunity for a social scene at Lafayette except for fraternities and sororities is just plain wrong. Holing up in a frat house waiting for the world to come to you isn't what makes Lafayette special!
Holing up in the frat house is the last thing that occurs. If thats all that occurred why would successful middle age men fight passionately to "save their house."
I am the first to admit that the primary focus and attraction of a fraternity is social interaction, but there is more too it. If there was nothing else, why would people care?
Also IMO one of the best ways to build responsibility and leadership in college is to hold an office in your fraternity. Having responsibility to 40-50 young guys or the direction or financies of the house is way more impactful than being the president of some goofy club that meets once a month and nobody cares about.
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:31 pm
Lafalum
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 843
LC Fan wrote:
Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
To think that there's not an opportunity for a social scene at Lafayette except for fraternities and sororities is just plain wrong.
I don't think I did. The point is you should have the opportunity to participate in those experiences whether you choose to join or go in another direction. My point is the BOT and this president are pre-empting many of those opportunities in favor of an academic experience that is not particularly unique, albiet a fine education. Not one graduate of Lafayette will be qualified to do brain surgery, practice law, engineer a major building or run a bank or major business the day they graduate. I think being an intercollegiate athlete and the member of a national fraternity was a key part of my education and contributed to my growth as a responsible citizen as much as my course in Modern British Fiction. That is not in the lexicon of this faculty, administration or Trustees
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:55 pm
cr
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 174
[quote="Lafalum"]
LC Fan wrote:
Lafalum makes my point. He points out that Lafayette offers the opportunity for "leadership experiences" that are unavailable at other schools. Mentoring by committed faculty, 23 varsity sports, 150+ clubs, lectures and performances nightly, etc.
To think that there's not an opportunity for a social scene at Lafayette except for fraternities and sororities is just plain wrong.
I don't think I did. The point is you should have the opportunity to participate in those experiences whether you choose to join or go in another direction. My point is the BOT and this president are pre-empting many of those opportunities in favor of an academic experience that is not particularly unique, albiet a fine education. Not one graduate of Lafayette will be qualified to do brain surgery, practice law, engineer a major building or run a bank or major business the day they graduate. I think being an intercollegiate athlete and the member of a national fraternity was a key part of my education and contributed to my growth as a responsible citizen as much as my course in Modern British Fiction. That is not in the lexicon of this faculty, administration or Trustees[/quot
I am in complete agreement with Lafalum and Franks Tanks as Colgate is so similar to Lafayette and faces the same challenges. Stick to your guns. I don't recall seeing posts for LC fan before so suspect he is an "insider"from the Admin/faculty camp. _________________ Go Gate!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:41 am
TheTruth
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
I had nice long reply that I planned to post in response to LC Fan but work got in the way. I don't think he/she understands that those who poast on here are some of the closest friends of the College and care very much about the welfare of our institution.
Lafayette, like Colgate, BU, HC, Lehigh, are unique schools. Fraternities and interconllegiate atheltcs are a big part of it. If Lafayette were being founded today, it would probably be about 2500-3000 students, would not have engineering, play Div. 3 and would not have fraternities. Instead you have a school with 2200 students, a top 10 engineering program, Div. 1 sports and fraternities and sororities. It works because we have immensely loyal alumni who continue to donate large sums of money because the College means so much. The greek system and athletics play a large part of this.
I'm not saying change is not necessary because it is. The students have more leadership opportuinites than ever which is very good. The Greek system needed an overhaul. Too much focus on drinking. But we have swung the pendulum too far in the other direction. Now we have an opportunity to provide true student leadership opportunities in these organizations but the College has a different agenda. To be honest, that's fine but have the guts to stand up and make the decision, defend it and accept the consequences. Instead we get what has been happening over the past 2 decades, a slow painful death which has alienated countless alumni. Other colleges like ours have successfully integrated the Greek system into student life, F&M and Gettysburg come to mind. These schools have no where near the financial resources we have.
Weiss came in with a lot of promise but the one decision he made that hurt the school more than anything was reducing the size of the incoming class. The BOT back in 2002 (help me out wtih the date lafalum) decided to increase the size of the school to help deal with the costs of a Div. 1 athletic program and expanding the arts and sciences. Plans were being developed to add residence hall space and expand the faculty. Weiss decides to reduce the incoming class to improve our academic standing since faculty to student ratio is the leading indicator (never understood this but I'm not an egghead). Of course, he doesn't agree with US News and World report but this decision is in direct response to this survey. Now we become even more dependent on our endowment and alumni donations to run day to day operations. God forbid we have an economic downturn and our endowment is reduced by 30%. Oh wait, that is happening now.
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