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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:55 am |

Pard94
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 762
Location: Weare, NH
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| carney2 wrote: | Here is one alum who supports the athletic programs* and could not care less about much of the rest of it. Have any studies been done about how the turn of the century (sounds like a long time ago, doesn't it?!) basketball teams used to pack Kirby with students and create a buzz everywhere in the community? The problem with academic "studies" is that they are usually undertaken with a predetermined result and agenda in mind.
Has anyone noticed that "diversity," like government controlled universal health care, has worked itself up the food chain to where it is an unquestioned top priority? The ivory tower has been surrendered without a fight - and it's our fault.
Apologies for overstatement and hyberbole here. Just warming up my curmudgeon for the fall season.
*In the interests of full disclosure, I confess to giving full support to football and basketball, while not so much to other athletic activities. |
I'll go out on a limb here and say, at best, diversity should be a benign byproduct of selecting the absolute best and most qualified students/worker/supreme court justice, etc. If a given selection process produces the most qualified field that just happens to be diverse...great. If, however, diversity is a goal in and of itself I don't see how the pursuit of excellence isn't frustraded. Just my opinion...which happens to be rooted in indisputable logic.  _________________ Pard94 |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:12 pm |

Pard4Life
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 300
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| Pard94 wrote: | | carney2 wrote: | Here is one alum who supports the athletic programs* and could not care less about much of the rest of it. Have any studies been done abo
*In the interests of full disclosure, I confess to giving full support to football and basketball, while not so much to other athletic activities. |
I'll go out on a limb here and say, at best, diversity should be a benign byproduct of selecting the absolute best and most qualified students/worker/supreme court justice, etc. If a given selection process produces the most qualified field that just happens to be diverse...great. If, however, diversity is a goal in and of itself I don't see how the pursuit of excellence isn't frustraded. Just my opinion...which happens to be rooted in indisputable logic.  |
That is a good principle to adhere to, but what if a slection process constantly yields non diverse bodies where diversity should be present, and the lack thereof is the result of denial of resources and suppression of particular groups? Diversity and affrimative action and the like is a subsidy in a sense.
By the way I skipped the diversity article. So sick of hearing it. Most of my generation is beyond this. It's only an issue in closed and monotonous communities which Lafayette certainly is. ie rich white kids without a clue.
And we are trying to be an Amherst or swathmore. I'm not a fan of the Greek system and what they pruport, but they must be allowed to stay. |
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:44 pm |

Pard94
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 762
Location: Weare, NH
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| Pard4Life wrote: | | Pard94 wrote: | | carney2 wrote: | Here is one alum who supports the athletic programs* and could not care less about much of the rest of it. Have any studies been done abo
*In the interests of full disclosure, I confess to giving full support to football and basketball, while not so much to other athletic activities. |
I'll go out on a limb here and say, at best, diversity should be a benign byproduct of selecting the absolute best and most qualified students/worker/supreme court justice, etc. If a given selection process produces the most qualified field that just happens to be diverse...great. If, however, diversity is a goal in and of itself I don't see how the pursuit of excellence isn't frustraded. Just my opinion...which happens to be rooted in indisputable logic.  |
That is a good principle to adhere to, but what if a slection process constantly yields non diverse bodies where diversity should be present, and the lack thereof is the result of denial of resources and suppression of particular groups? Diversity and affrimative action and the like is a subsidy in a sense.
By the way I skipped the diversity article. So sick of hearing it. Most of my generation is beyond this. It's only an issue in closed and monotonous communities which Lafayette certainly is. ie rich white kids without a clue.
And we are trying to be an Amherst or swathmore. I'm not a fan of the Greek system and what they pruport, but they must be allowed to stay. |
And what if the selection process is fine (or as close to fine as possible)yet the lack of precieved diversity results in the very discrimination said process is trying to avoid (discrimination applies to all races, colors, creeds, etc.). One need not look any farther than the Ricci case in CT for a shining example of this. The test in question was engineered by no less than EEO experts to be devoid of any race based qualifiers no matter how subtle. Look how that worked out.
Worse yet, consider tests designed to avoid descrimination by actually lowering standards. There is a famous case (again fire fighters) where a portion of a qualifying test was for the applicant to carry a 120lbs, dummy through an obstacle course in order to simulate actual rescue conditions. Problem was there were woman who couldn't do it. Logic would dictate those women shouldn't be fire fighters. Political correctness dictated that this portion of the exam be eliminated to accomodate those woman with aspirations of being fire fighters. I pray those fire fighters never come to rescue me! They wouldn't get me off the couch!
You call diversity and affirmative action a "subsidy". I call them euphamisms for socially accpetable discrimination. Nothing more. _________________ Pard94 |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:38 am |

TheTruth
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
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Pard94: Without getting into a long dissertation about diversity at Lafayette, it's an issue the College has struggled with ever since the late 60's. When students transfer out of Lafayette the two main reasons sited are the social life revolving too much around drinking and the homogeneous nature of the College.
I think the College has handled the Greek as well as they have handled diversity: God awful! They made the fraternities the scapegoat for the social ills of the College. They will claim they hired a Greek advisor to "work" with the Greek system. If you ask all the former employees that held that position, they will tell you how little support they received and they were highly discouraed from making any changes. Plain and simple, the faculty, as a whole, do not like the fraternity system. The Administration and Trustees are tired of dealing with them. So they (President and BOT) need make the decision to get rid of them and suffer the consequences of permanently alienating certain alumni. This long, drawn out process of letting them die off themselves creates more of a distraction. It's been going on since the mid-80's. At first it was disguised as a natural reduction due to co-education. I don't think they can claim that anymore.
Like Pard4life, I could care less about the fraternities and sororities but they are a very important part of our culture at Lafayette, like our athletic program, like our Engineering program. At one point, 80% of the males on campus (includes the freshamen) were members of fraternities. Some alumni have moved past their alliance with their fratenity and are in line with the College (like it should be) but I know my era want nothing to do with the College because their fraternity is no longer on campus. There are ways to have a thriving Greek system that is in step with the College's mission. Other colleges like ours are doing it. Unfortunately, I thnk Lafayette is beyond this point.
Yes there are those who believe we should become more academically rigorous and would love for us to be another Amherst. Please understand, I love reading that our Forensic Team finished fiifth nationally; the engineering program is one of the leaders in graduating women engineers; the renewed efforts to promote community service. But there is no need to destroy traditions while doing this. After the drunken 70's and 80's, we needed to move to a more "academic' mission but the pendulum has swung way too far. We have the benefit of a huge endowment (despite the 30% loss) and alumni with deep pockets who LOVE the College. We can accomplish many of these and still maintain a competitive Div. I athletic program that excels in the Patriot League and a fraternity system that fits the mission of the College. |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:50 am |

Pard94
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 762
Location: Weare, NH
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| TheTruth wrote: | Pard94: Without getting into a long dissertation about diversity at Lafayette, it's an issue the College has struggled with ever since the late 60's. When students transfer out of Lafayette the two main reasons sited are the social life revolving too much around drinking and the homogeneous nature of the College.
I think the College has handled the Greek as well as they have handled diversity: God awful! They made the fraternities the scapegoat for the social ills of the College. They will claim they hired a Greek advisor to "work" with the Greek system. If you ask all the former employees that held that position, they will tell you how little support they received and they were highly discouraed from making any changes. Plain and simple, the faculty, as a whole, do not like the fraternity system. The Administration and Trustees are tired of dealing with them. So they (President and BOT) need make the decision to get rid of them and suffer the consequences of permanently alienating certain alumni. This long, drawn out process of letting them die off themselves creates more of a distraction. It's been going on since the mid-80's. At first it was disguised as a natural reduction due to co-education. I don't think they can claim that anymore.
Like Pard4life, I could care less about the fraternities and sororities but they are a very important part of our culture at Lafayette, like our athletic program, like our Engineering program. At one point, 80% of the males on campus (includes the freshamen) were members of fraternities. Some alumni have moved past their alliance with their fratenity and are in line with the College (like it should be) but I know my era want nothing to do with the College because their fraternity is no longer on campus. There are ways to have a thriving Greek system that is in step with the College's mission. Other colleges like ours are doing it. Unfortunately, I thnk Lafayette is beyond this point.
Yes there are those who believe we should become more academically rigorous and would love for us to be another Amherst. Please understand, I love reading that our Forensic Team finished fiifth nationally; the engineering program is one of the leaders in graduating women engineers; the renewed efforts to promote community service. But there is no need to destroy traditions while doing this. After the drunken 70's and 80's, we needed to move to a more "academic' mission but the pendulum has swung way too far. We have the benefit of a huge endowment (despite the 30% loss) and alumni with deep pockets who LOVE the College. We can accomplish many of these and still maintain a competitive Div. I athletic program that excels in the Patriot League and a fraternity system that fits the mission of the College. |
Your points are well stated. It's no secret that the administration is against the Greek system...always has been, always will be. I just don't understand how they fail to see that the Greek system at Lafayette represents just about the only social life to be had at Lafayette. Of course this includes drinking in the bar rooms but it also includes, spinning (that's the term the kids use for dancing Carney), dance formals, charitable fundraisers (dance marathon, Football Run for Cancer, etc.), intramurals, etc. Now I am not naive or delusional. I think while fraternities do do a lot of public good for the school and the community at large I firmly believe they are largely social institutions. I just don't get why the administration doesn't see the value in such social organizations particulalry when the alternatives are located in downtown Easton. No matter how much of the city Lafayette buys up there will always be conflicts with residents, criminals and police. In my mind it is better to keep as many of the students on campus as possible.
As for diversity on campus....I guess I would need to better understand the goal vis a vis diversity. Are we trying to make the campus and the admissions process more accomodating to minorities that might have been a victim of historical injustices (i.e. African Americans, Latinos, etc.)? Or is the goal to make Lafayette's campus more global in its make-up (Africans, Asians, etc.). Either way I think we need to be realistic. In regards to the minority Americans hasn't the goal always been to have the sub-community (in this case the Lafayette student body) mirror the community at large (shall we define this as Easton? Lehigh Valley? Eastern PA?). If that's the case I think we are ahead of the curve from a percentage perspective. If we're looking to go global how does an institution of 2,000 students with limited resources accomplish this beyond what we are doing? We have to be honest...we're never going to compete with urban schools in this regard. If I'm an 18 year old from China I am much more apt to go where I might see at least a few fellow Chinese during the course of my day. Where I might be able to get some Chinese food from time to time (and I'm not talking about Crab Rangoon). Lafayette College in Easton PA aint it. Same goes for Ghana, Equador, India, et. al. I think we need to understand who we are and, ultimately who we serve. I'm all for trying to make Lafayette as inclusive as reasonably possible but when you start to alienate 90% of the population to placate 10% I have problems. That's just my opinion. Of course I'm just a straight white male fast approaching midddle age so my opinion counts for very little these days. _________________ Pard94 |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:45 pm |

TheTruth
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
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Part of the problem is the College doesn't really know what it wants to accomplish with diversity. They know that they need to do a better of recruiting minorities and more importantly, a more economically diverse student body. Students and parents are expecting to see more diversity on college campuses. In this global society and the fact we tout ourselves as developing future leaders, having a more diverse campus, ethnically and econmically, gives our students a much broader perspective of the world. And better prepares them for the "real world".
For years, the college operated basically a quota system when recruiting minorities ( I have heard this from many faculty and adminstrators). Often admitting students who were not prepared for Lafayette either academically or socially. When you do this, you have students failing out, transferring, not happy on campus, etc. I think some of the work that Barry mcCarty had done and the Admissions office under Carol Rowlands have done a much better job. The partnership with the Posse program is great (I can tell you stories about the objections from unlikely sources that will leave you shaking your head) but more needs to be done in the recruiting area. It can be done without compromising the Admission process.
The focus since the early to mid 90's has been to make the College more academically rigorus and add more student activities to de-emphasize drinking which put the fraternities right in the cross hairs of the faculty and administration. Like I mentioned before, I love what they have done with adding clubs, emphasizing community service, intramurals, sophmore rush, etc. Students have much more to do on campus other than drinking. This makes Lafayette more attractive not just to minoritiy students but other majority students who have an interest in these co-curricular activites. I think the College has unfairly laid the blame of the social ills on the fraternities without making a fair effort to pull them into the mix. Why should we? Because they are such a huge part of our College's history and another alternative for the students. Unfortunately, I think we are beyond being able to repair the fraternity system. Weiss and the BOT should just make the decision and dissolve the Greek system and face the consequences.
I agree we have to be realistic. You fall into a trap when you try to use numbers as the measuring tool for diversity. The make-up of student body is not as important as creating an atmosphere of community. It's hard to do on a campus that historically was divided based on what fraternity, sorority, sports teams, major, etc. you belonged to. We've made huge strides but we have also alienated too many alumni along the way. It's sad when alumni don't feel connected to the college anymore and their voices aren't heard. this is not what diversity is suppose to be about. |
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| Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:15 pm |

TheRock90
Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 216
Location: Easton
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I'm curious. Does the college track donations by affinity group? Is the average contribution higher or lower for athletes, sorority/fraternity members, etc? What about percentage of contributors, etc.? How about by major? |
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:00 am |

Lafalum
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 843
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For all you younger alums, this effort to get rid of the Greek system has been going on for 40 years. The administrations and the Bot have for years used as a whipping boy the greek system to blame for any percieved ill.
This has been a consistent call for all these years. I ask you what has remained constant? It has basically been the same coterie on the BOT.
There's your problem!! |
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