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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:41 am
Lafalum
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 843
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:55 am
TheTruth
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.
Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this. Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's. And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".
The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men. Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them. And the College has not helped. Enough blame for both. It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising. The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:18 am
Pard94
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 762
Location: Weare, NH
TheTruth wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.
Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this. Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's. And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".
The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men. Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them. And the College has not helped. Enough blame for both. It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising. The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying "times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them". First of all the fraternities changed considerably even in the four years I attended. They went from essentially no rules to quite a lot of them. Let's keep in mind that the transgression that ultimately got FIJI thrown off campus was a couple of over 21 students drinking beer in their room. If the same thing happened in South or Gates there is no incident to report. But because FIJI was "dry" (tell me again about no change over the years?) this was a major incident. Granted, FIJI was far from perfect over the years but let's not be fooled into thinking that this was anything short of the administrations latest salvo against the Greek system. Sorrorites our differnt than fraternities? Yeah, they use a lot more construction paper and glitter during Rush and the pee sitting down. They'll come under the knife once the main "offenders" (fraternities) are taken care of. Afterall, we can't have a campus that may or may not exclude the transgendered, left handed Indian Muslims. The Lafayette community, afterall, must mirroe the manufactured utopian image of society the egg-heads would have you believe exists in the real world. Problem is the real world doesn't cater to such beliefs and it never will. Why let reality get in the way though? _________________ Pard94
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:49 am
Lafalum
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 843
The alumni of the houses should have been more engaged in the operation of the houses so that they could say they were supporting the academic mission. I agree the Phi Gam expulsion was eggregious because the college tried to lump 25 years of minor incidents ( maybe a couple of worse ones) to create the image of a place out of control.
With the regard to my "politics." I'll stand by the comment. The "college"as I have defined it wants control. I have heard more than one senior administrator bemoan the fact that alums have conflicting loyalties that divert money from where the school wants it. (They give to frats and sports). If they had their way they'd love to tax every alum and they can allocate the money because they know best. When you give to sports they can cut the budget of that sport and equal amount. When you give to your local and the local feeds and houses themselves there is not much they can do!! Their view of the world doesn't fit with their impression of what goes on in a fraternity. After all most of these guys are not greek or athletes.
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:23 pm
Franks Tanks
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 532
Lafalum wrote:
The alumni of the houses should have been more engaged in the operation of the houses so that they could say they were supporting the academic mission. I agree the Phi Gam expulsion was eggregious because the college tried to lump 25 years of minor incidents ( maybe a couple of worse ones) to create the image of a place out of control.
With the regard to my "politics." I'll stand by the comment. The "college"as I have defined it wants control. I have heard more than one senior administrator bemoan the fact that alums have conflicting loyalties that divert money from where the school wants it. (They give to frats and sports). If they had their way they'd love to tax every alum and they can allocate the money because they know best. When you give to sports they can cut the budget of that sport and equal amount. When you give to your local and the local feeds and houses themselves there is not much they can do!! Their view of the world doesn't fit with their impression of what goes on in a fraternity. After all most of these guys are not greek or athletes.
The Phi Gam house association and brothers were as invloved as any. When I was in school our house GPA and participation in campus events was far better than the other large houses. Bit it doesnt matter, the admin wanted the house gone for a about a decade and saw a golden opportunity.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:30 am
TheTruth
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 485
Pard94 wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.
Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this. Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's. And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".
The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men. Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them. And the College has not helped. Enough blame for both. It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising. The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying "times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them". First of all the fraternities changed considerably even in the four years I attended. They went from essentially no rules to quite a lot of them. Let's keep in mind that the transgression that ultimately got FIJI thrown off campus was a couple of over 21 students drinking beer in their room. If the same thing happened in South or Gates there is no incident to report. But because FIJI was "dry" (tell me again about no change over the years?) this was a major incident. Granted, FIJI was far from perfect over the years but let's not be fooled into thinking that this was anything short of the administrations latest salvo against the Greek system. Sorrorites our differnt than fraternities? Yeah, they use a lot more construction paper and glitter during Rush and the pee sitting down. They'll come under the knife once the main "offenders" (fraternities) are taken care of. Afterall, we can't have a campus that may or may not exclude the transgendered, left handed Indian Muslims. The Lafayette community, afterall, must mirroe the manufactured utopian image of society the egg-heads would have you believe exists in the real world. Problem is the real world doesn't cater to such beliefs and it never will. Why let reality get in the way though?
What I mean by that "times have changed" is at one time the College "needed" fraternities because of housing, eating spaces and entertainment as others have mentioned. Remember the College was all male until 1970 so fraternities were a much bigger part of the college experience and in many cases the only ties some alumni have to the College. They became more social organizations in the mid to late 70's as the female population grew and many house got rid of things like "house mothers" and dressing up for dinner. Seemingly minor things but very important to the overall function and role of the fraternity and the house. The fraternites began to focus more on parties which the school tolerated because it kept the student drinking on campus away from the town of Easton and there were limited activites in the area for the students. The cops were ok with it and the college tolerated it.
In the 80's, the drinking got out of hand. Fraternites were "on-tap" every night. There were pub night each night except Sunday. Basically, Fraternities and drinking became synomous. The College earned the reputation of being a party school which annoyed the faculty (although I can share stories with certain faculty who frequently partied with the students). We were theh number 3 party school by the "Preppy handbook" back in the 80's. Great for the students but the administration and faculty hated it. This drinking was not just at Lafayette.
The thing that changed everything was PA Act 31 which was passed in 1987 or 1988. Basically, this law made those who provided the alcohol responsible for their patrons actions. Basically, this forced the school to crack down on the drinking on campus. The target became fraternities. You experienced many of the changes in the early 90's as I did in the late 80's. Many of the fraternities did not make this adjustment from social organizations back to leadership building organizations. To be fair, the administration did not help either. This is where I get upset with the College's handling of the fraternites. It's too late to turn it around.
Lafalum brings up great points about the views of many adminstrators toward fraternities (not all but most). They forget that fraternity life was very important to many of our alumni's Lafayette Experience. Like I often remind people that Lafayette football didn't begin in the 90's. The Lafayette Experience of today is not the same as the Lafayette Experience of the 50's, 60's 70's, etc. You can't operate the school in a vacuum of today. Colleges are suppose to be about traditions and history. Fraternities are an important part of Lafayette's history.
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:06 am
Pard94
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 762
Location: Weare, NH
That's all well and good...and I appreciate the response. What you are not acknowledging, however, is that the fraternities DID change right along with the times. No doubt the fraternities experienced thier peak in the 80's as far as partying was concerned. Over the next 20 years things in the frat houses changed drastically. Back in the 80's underage drinking was tolerated, open containers outside the houses was the norm (made for some crazy All College Days) and pretty much life was akin to the final days of Rome...no rules...if it felt good do it. I attended Lafayette from 90-94. When I was rushing FIJI and other fraternities in 1990 kegs were still allowed in barooms of fraternity houses. This was the final year of that. Underage drinking was not permitted but you could get around that rule fairly easily with some planning. By my sophomore year...no more kegs. Bars and taps were ripped out of bar rooms to be in compliance. Fine. the sight of 50 cases of beer being loaded into walk in refrigerators on a Friday afternoon was now the new norm around campuses. Not as convenient as kegs but hardly a deathblow to the party scene at Lafayette. And that's the way it stayed for my tenure at Lafayette. My little brother attended Lafayette and was also a FIJI from 1998-2001. By the time he was a senior no more beer was allowed in the bar rooms on campus. This drove all of the parties to off campus apartments. They were now under the jursidiction of the Easton PD. I don't know if this was part of the plan of the administration. I can't imagine they actually thought such a move would curtail underage drinking or drinking in general...these are smart people right? Shortly thereafter FIJI anyway went completely "dry" officially. No more beer in the house at all. Not for parties, not for alumni functions not for personal consumption. No more officially sponsored parties on or off campus. Effectively FIJI became what you described back in the 70's. It was solely a living organization with some very mild social gatherings periodically. It was under these harsh restrictions that FIJI slipped up. Can't really blame the transgressors as it was bound to happen given the expectations.
So I'm quite willing to accept that the times changed. Not so much when you tell me the fraternities didn't change along with them. Just ask any FIJI who graduated in say 1983 what they thought of the 2008 FIJI. It was completely unrecognizeable. As you can see from the above account. Lafayette was very patient. They took their time in setting a trap for the fraternities. The Phi Gams fought the good fight but they sprung the trap as they were absolutely bound to do. The trap has been reset and it's waiting for the next victim. I have my money on KDR. How nice would it be for the college to reclaim that whole section of campus? They could dedicate and entire corner of the campus to the Society of Transgendered Indian Muslims (STIM). In fact I would think it would be nothing short of racisim if we didn't appoint a tenured faculty member to make sure the STIM students feel sanguine, tranquil, welcomed and included 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Welcome to your Lafayette College 2009 edition. _________________ Pard94
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:27 pm
DaveR
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 70
TheTruth wrote:
Pard94 wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.
Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this. Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's. And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".
The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men. Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them. And the College has not helped. Enough blame for both. It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising. The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying "times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them". First of all the fraternities changed considerably even in the four years I attended. They went from essentially no rules to quite a lot of them. Let's keep in mind that the transgression that ultimately got FIJI thrown off campus was a couple of over 21 students drinking beer in their room. If the same thing happened in South or Gates there is no incident to report. But because FIJI was "dry" (tell me again about no change over the years?) this was a major incident. Granted, FIJI was far from perfect over the years but let's not be fooled into thinking that this was anything short of the administrations latest salvo against the Greek system. Sorrorites our differnt than fraternities? Yeah, they use a lot more construction paper and glitter during Rush and the pee sitting down. They'll come under the knife once the main "offenders" (fraternities) are taken care of. Afterall, we can't have a campus that may or may not exclude the transgendered, left handed Indian Muslims. The Lafayette community, afterall, must mirroe the manufactured utopian image of society the egg-heads would have you believe exists in the real world. Problem is the real world doesn't cater to such beliefs and it never will. Why let reality get in the way though?
What I mean by that "times have changed" is at one time the College "needed" fraternities because of housing, eating spaces and entertainment as others have mentioned. Remember the College was all male until 1970 so fraternities were a much bigger part of the college experience and in many cases the only ties some alumni have to the College. They became more social organizations in the mid to late 70's as the female population grew and many house got rid of things like "house mothers" and dressing up for dinner. Seemingly minor things but very important to the overall function and role of the fraternity and the house. The fraternites began to focus more on parties which the school tolerated because it kept the student drinking on campus away from the town of Easton and there were limited activites in the area for the students. The cops were ok with it and the college tolerated it.
In the 80's, the drinking got out of hand. Fraternites were "on-tap" every night. There were pub night each night except Sunday. Basically, Fraternities and drinking became synomous. The College earned the reputation of being a party school which annoyed the faculty (although I can share stories with certain faculty who frequently partied with the students). We were theh number 3 party school by the "Preppy handbook" back in the 80's. Great for the students but the administration and faculty hated it. This drinking was not just at Lafayette.
The thing that changed everything was PA Act 31 which was passed in 1987 or 1988. Basically, this law made those who provided the alcohol responsible for their patrons actions. Basically, this forced the school to crack down on the drinking on campus. The target became fraternities. You experienced many of the changes in the early 90's as I did in the late 80's. Many of the fraternities did not make this adjustment from social organizations back to leadership building organizations. To be fair, the administration did not help either. This is where I get upset with the College's handling of the fraternites. It's too late to turn it around.
Lafalum brings up great points about the views of many adminstrators toward fraternities (not all but most). They forget that fraternity life was very important to many of our alumni's Lafayette Experience. Like I often remind people that Lafayette football didn't begin in the 90's. The Lafayette Experience of today is not the same as the Lafayette Experience of the 50's, 60's 70's, etc. You can't operate the school in a vacuum of today. Colleges are suppose to be about traditions and history. Fraternities are an important part of Lafayette's history.
Interesting discussion, and I feel sad for the FIJI brothers, who are the latest victims (my fraternity fell victim to the administration in the late '90s).
I'm curious, however, why the same pressures have evidently not had a similar effect at Lehigh, where they were recently recognized by Playboy as one of the top "party schools". http://www.playboy.com/articles/t...schools-2009-the-works/index.html _________________ BEAT LEHIGH!!!
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:31 pm
Franks Tanks
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 532
DaveR wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
Pard94 wrote:
TheTruth wrote:
Lafalum wrote:
The college (by that I mean the BOT and Administrations) really wanted control of all aspects of a student's life, academically and fiscally. An independent greek system stood in the way. I can remember the school going crazy with us because our room and board was cheaper than what the college was charging. We learned a lot running our own kitchen hiring our own employees. We had maid service at the time. It actually helped keep the house in working order as she insisted on timely repairs.
The liberals that populate higher education love running your life and telling you what you should eat, what you should think, how you should spend your free time, etc.
The greeks were at fault too, the alumni in frats should have been more proactive and visable, and appear with regularity not just when there was a problem. Yes we have 5 frats but we also have a number of sororities who do seem to be very strong. There is a place for the greek system but it may not look like we remember it.
Lafalum, let's keep politics out of this. Plus Lafayette's administration is pretty conservative compared to most college's. And conservatives are also guilty of saying what people "shoud do", "how to act"and "ought to do".
The sororities are strong but they serve a completely different role for women than the fraternities do for men. Times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them. And the College has not helped. Enough blame for both. It will be interesting to see the fallout as far as fundraising. The College normally does a good job of isolating the big donors from these type issues.
I'm not sure what you mean by saying "times have changed and the fraternities did not change with them". First of all the fraternities changed considerably even in the four years I attended. They went from essentially no rules to quite a lot of them. Let's keep in mind that the transgression that ultimately got FIJI thrown off campus was a couple of over 21 students drinking beer in their room. If the same thing happened in South or Gates there is no incident to report. But because FIJI was "dry" (tell me again about no change over the years?) this was a major incident. Granted, FIJI was far from perfect over the years but let's not be fooled into thinking that this was anything short of the administrations latest salvo against the Greek system. Sorrorites our differnt than fraternities? Yeah, they use a lot more construction paper and glitter during Rush and the pee sitting down. They'll come under the knife once the main "offenders" (fraternities) are taken care of. Afterall, we can't have a campus that may or may not exclude the transgendered, left handed Indian Muslims. The Lafayette community, afterall, must mirroe the manufactured utopian image of society the egg-heads would have you believe exists in the real world. Problem is the real world doesn't cater to such beliefs and it never will. Why let reality get in the way though?
What I mean by that "times have changed" is at one time the College "needed" fraternities because of housing, eating spaces and entertainment as others have mentioned. Remember the College was all male until 1970 so fraternities were a much bigger part of the college experience and in many cases the only ties some alumni have to the College. They became more social organizations in the mid to late 70's as the female population grew and many house got rid of things like "house mothers" and dressing up for dinner. Seemingly minor things but very important to the overall function and role of the fraternity and the house. The fraternites began to focus more on parties which the school tolerated because it kept the student drinking on campus away from the town of Easton and there were limited activites in the area for the students. The cops were ok with it and the college tolerated it.
In the 80's, the drinking got out of hand. Fraternites were "on-tap" every night. There were pub night each night except Sunday. Basically, Fraternities and drinking became synomous. The College earned the reputation of being a party school which annoyed the faculty (although I can share stories with certain faculty who frequently partied with the students). We were theh number 3 party school by the "Preppy handbook" back in the 80's. Great for the students but the administration and faculty hated it. This drinking was not just at Lafayette.
The thing that changed everything was PA Act 31 which was passed in 1987 or 1988. Basically, this law made those who provided the alcohol responsible for their patrons actions. Basically, this forced the school to crack down on the drinking on campus. The target became fraternities. You experienced many of the changes in the early 90's as I did in the late 80's. Many of the fraternities did not make this adjustment from social organizations back to leadership building organizations. To be fair, the administration did not help either. This is where I get upset with the College's handling of the fraternites. It's too late to turn it around.
Lafalum brings up great points about the views of many adminstrators toward fraternities (not all but most). They forget that fraternity life was very important to many of our alumni's Lafayette Experience. Like I often remind people that Lafayette football didn't begin in the 90's. The Lafayette Experience of today is not the same as the Lafayette Experience of the 50's, 60's 70's, etc. You can't operate the school in a vacuum of today. Colleges are suppose to be about traditions and history. Fraternities are an important part of Lafayette's history.
Interesting discussion, and I feel sad for the FIJI brothers, who are the latest victims (my fraternity fell victim to the administration in the late '90s).
The greek scene at Lehigh is certainly stronger than Lafayette, but they are getting pinched over there as well. Lehigh made an announcement they would be cancelling Greek week going forward because things were getting out of hand, and they are slowly picking off frats as well.
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