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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:22 pm

Realfax1View user's profile






Joined: 21 Jan 2017
Posts: 10







In the 4 years prior to the current coach's arrival, the team won 11,8,11 and 14 games.  These are facts which provide context to the current state of the program.

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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:44 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1857


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Realfax1 wrote:
In the 4 years prior to the current coach's arrival, the team won 11,8,11 and 14 games. These are facts which provide context to the current state of the program.


We had better players.
_________________
I bleed Maroon

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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:28 pm

Realfax1View user's profile






Joined: 21 Jan 2017
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That's it?  Recruiting and coaching?

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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:40 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Location: Bethlehem, PA





Realfax1 wrote:
That's it? Recruiting and coaching?

She's had one recruiting cycle.

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:34 am

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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Location: Bethlehem, PA





Realfax1 wrote:
In the 4 years prior to the current coach's arrival, the team won 11,8,11 and 14 games. These are facts which provide context to the current state of the program.


Warning: Unhappy Parent in da House!

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:39 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3884







The Maroon wrote:
Realfax1 wrote:
In the 4 years prior to the current coach's arrival, the team won 11,8,11 and 14 games. These are facts which provide context to the current state of the program.


Warning: Unhappy Parent in da House!


Let's not forget who this effort is for. These kids have four years and its over. The college and athletic program has failed them.They have a right to be pissed. Earlier this year the president of the college stood her ground not to give tenure to a professor that did not meet standards. Can we say the same for for the administration of our athletic program??

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:34 am

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6038







I'd like to know how LC has failed the women's basketball program, these young ladies? Fully funded. Renovated gym. $60k scholarships. Bounced the last unsuccesful coaches. Who is failing whom? Are these Div 1 quality players? If not the coaches who brought them here failed their employer. Are the women working hard, how's their work ethic? Are they failing their coach? If the charge is that Grentz is still the coach - once again, she's brought in 1 class!

Now would I be POd if my upperclasswoman daughter was sitting while players no better than her were playing? Yup.

If there's new accountability in the dept, if the dept is being run as a Div1 program, a coach is vetted and handed the reigns. You trust her judgment. She runs the program her way knowing if she fails she's unemployed. There is a reasonable amount of time to judgment.

Man, I wish football was fully funded.

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:54 am

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3884







I suppose the question is if you go through 3 coaches and none can turn this around was the vetting process good enough??? Is the judgement in our hires good enough??? When you are consistently bad over more than a decade, it is time to ask other questions and pointing in a direction where there should be accountability.
From a giving alumnae point of view, its money not well spent. From the viewpoint of a senior not playing and a future "giving" alumnus.... it sucks!!

You are quite right in pointing out the variables. New facilities, full scholarships ( I actually believe women's basketball is  short one), and full stable of assistant coaches.
It's a list that could apply to many of our sports. ( Even football spends at a level that puts us in the upper third of the PL). So what the missing variable??


Last edited by Lafalum on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:04 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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What does "consistently bad over a decade" have to do with Grentz's 2016 team? You're going back to when LC was competing in a scholarship league without scholarships. Is there new accountability as evidenced by canning 2 coaches in 4 years? Do you want to judge a HOF coach after one recruiting cycle?

Laf, you would know best. Has the AD been given power to hire and fire? If his hires were failures then he should be held accountable. I don't think the ADs retirement would be met with much chagrin around here. But to make that judgment one would have to know his circumstance.

What does "it is time to ask other questions and pointing in a direction where there should be accountability" mean?

"So what the missing variable??"  As far as women's bball - talented players.

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:33 pm

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3884







I am a fan of most every sport Maroon and White. What I see is years of losing on every court and field owned by the College. I thought in the years we were without scholarships in basketball there was a certain reticense to make the case. At the very least the people running program had no influence. It was up to alumni to make the case.

I do not see that at Lehigh, Colgate, Bucknell and now even Holy Cross. I couldn't see a Joe Sterett putting up with it. I can blame the BOT and past presidents before, but not now. I'd like to know who is unhappy besides we who are writing checks, and the players and parents. I would like someone at the school who has the responsibility to say they are unhappy with the results. I had hopes the "Study" would clarify that, but the article in the Lafayette last week bummed me out. Maybe I am reacting to that this morning.

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:57 pm

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6038







Much respect for you, laf, and what you do for LC, but you haven't explained how "LC has failed the women's basketball team." Wasn't firing 2 coaches over a several year period an expression of "unhappiness?"

LC's BOT hires nerds to run a college with a Div 1 athletic program. They don't hire an engineer with a 30 year background at a place with an athletic tradition like Stanford as Bucknell did; they don't hire a guy who was the captain of a team at Notre Dame like Colgate did. They hire Weiss and Alyson who have absolutely no idea what it's like to compete and prob have no understanding as to why athletic success is important to us. Thankfully alums like yourself have tried to make things clear to Alyson. What I would like to see is the hiring of a competent AD who is charged with running a successful dept. and who is held accountable. (again maybe Bruce has no mission and no authority, IDK). I see signs of positive change thanks to the efforts of yourself and others.

LC failing the women of the basketball team specifically? Don't see it. Sometimes players have to be held accountable.

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:09 pm

LafalumView user's profile






Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 3884







Maybe what I am saying is the athletic program needs a strong advocate. The athletes themselves can't be blamed for that missing variable. Perhaps they are not "good enough." But who is responsible for recruiting. Are we tougher than our peers in admissions? If we are is anyone pounding the table pointing that out?? Are we applying scholarships in a way that's different than our peers. I had hoped the "study" does its homework and points that out but I see no evidence that is where the focus is ( at least according the Lafayette article).

I hope I am proven wrong by events!! I know the administration in some form reads this and would hope they take note!!

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Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:55 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1857


Location: Bethlehem, PA





I don' t know how complicated this is - we're losing the recruiting battle. The years cited in the original post to "prove" that coach Grentz is a failure coincide with the tenure of the best player we had on College Hill since Mowins and McManus. Homan's graduation left a void that no current player could come close to filling. The next year we lost O'hare.

That doesn't mean we don't have a problem - players graduate all the time without programs falling to 1 and whatever. Recruiting IS a big part of the job. Where does the train fall off the rails? Are we bad at identifying players? Are we not getting them through admissions? Do we not have the budget?

Unlike football where - for the most part - we feel we're getting players on par with other schools, we definitely aren't in men's and women's basketball. Maybe it's the coaches - but to me that's the area to pinpoint.

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Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:14 pm

Realfax1View user's profile






Joined: 21 Jan 2017
Posts: 10







No one is trying to "prove" anything about anybody as I read the posts.  The win/loss statistics speak for themselves.

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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:15 am

adminView user's profile

Site Admin




Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 43







Realfax1 wrote:
No one is trying to "prove" anything about anybody as I read the posts. The win/loss statistics speak for themselves.


As does her career record. Or are we going to ignore the body of work and pick and choose whatever fits your narrative?

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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:32 am

bison137View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1366







admin wrote:
Realfax1 wrote:
No one is trying to "prove" anything about anybody as I read the posts. The win/loss statistics speak for themselves.


As does her career record. Or are we going to ignore the body of work and pick and choose whatever fits your narrative?


Yes, her career record is definitely relevant.  Some  might also find it relevant that her last six years at Illinois were mediocre. In fact she has not had a good year since she was age 50, and she is now about to turn 65. Time will tell how much she has left in the tank.

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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:44 am

PardDad71View user's profile






Joined: 09 Nov 2016
Posts: 143







I might have second thoughts about weighing in on this topic!!!

Here goes nothing!   First, I have seen all of 2 womens games this season (and problably 1 each year before that).   Basically if I have nothing to do, I will go see a game, or possibly get diverted to the tavern.

The 2 games I saw there was no lack of effort.   I applauded the hire of Coach Grentz -  and I do think it a bit crazy to judge her as a failure this quickly.   The only reason I could see her not succeeding is if she has lost the fire to rebuild, but I don't see that from her courtside demeanor.

Playing time?  Being a senior does not buy playing time.  Being a better player does.   Now, the 2 games I saw were very different as far as who contributed, so in defense of Jrs and Srs, maybe they are as good as the underclassmen.   In a rebuild the coach must balance whats best for today (more wins) with what will create a stronger team 2,3,4 years down the road.

Let Coach Grentz have the rope.   Climb or Hang

Final 2 cents.  A lot of talk about empowering athletics.   The AD needs to be accountable.  Be interesting to see what the study says on that topic

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