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Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:51 pm

Ransom StoddardView user's profile






Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 57







Different day, same story.  

We hit our anemic 50 point average, shooting our usual 33% (20-60) from the field (AU was 49% (31-63).  If Stipa had not scored 17 (7-15 with 3 three pointers) playing the 2 guard, it would have been worse.  She had a very nice game adding 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals and no TOs.  Agnello played a lot of point guard and struggled, with 5 TOs, 3 points (1-5) and 1 only assist.  Holland also played the point and wasn't bad, with 2 FTs (0-2 from the field), 3 assists and only 1 TO.  As someone else has pointed out, the point guard position has been a problem this year.  AU had 24 assists to our 10.  We had 18 TOs to their 11.  We were outrebounded 41 to 35 - watching the game, I thought it was worse than that.

Ottewill-Soulsby (10 pts, 5 rebs, 3 blks) and Hood (12 pts, 7 rebs) had solid games.    

We have had some decent defensive games this year, but we were really lacking in this game.  We are ridiculously bad trying to run a zone defense.  AU picked it apart with ease.  Gumbs was a big part of that.  Though she possesses wonderful raw talent, she is a liability on defense.  She has a lot of games where she fills the stat sheet, but she does not seem to recognize when she should help or switch on defense.  On offense, once she gets the ball it almost always seems like she is going to the rim and, against AU, they obviously saw that in film and set her up for two charging calls.  She had 6 points against AU, on 2-7 shooting with 4 TOs and 4 fouls.    

Next up is Lehigh - a winnable game.  We need one.

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:35 am

NewXboView user's profile






Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 815







I was out of town all day and got home just in time to hear part of Grentz's post game comments. She was talking about shooting and said that the team does not know how to shoot.  My question is, who is responsible for teaching the players how to shoot?
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Last edited by NewXbo on Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:45 am

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6038







NewXbo wrote:
I was out of town all day and got home just in time to hear part of Grentz's post game comments. She was talking about shooting and said that the team does not know how to shoot.  My question is, who is responsible for teaching the players how to coach?


How to "shoot."  I thought the same as she implored girls to come to her camp to be taught proper shooting technique.  How about teaching your players?  Apparently she feels her players' bad shooting technique is ingrained and irreversible.

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:54 am

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1857


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Agree on the observation regarding our defense. It seemed like they were putting on a clinic on how to break a zone...drive, push it out, drive, push it out, 3...

I don't understand how we can land a team full of poor shooters at our level - but we've managed to do it. There are times - way too often -  our offense works to perfection and we just plain miss a high percentage shot.

This is as bad as I've ever seen it and I've seen plenty of bad. It's scary the number of factors that have to converge for us to win a game.

We DO have a point guard coming in....right?

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:13 am

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2071







I think the longest losing streak was 28 games back in the X era. That could be at risk. Put Albright on the schedule.

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:22 am

AndyView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 6038







The Maroon wrote:
. We DO have a point guard coming in....right?


Not identified as such in the signing announcement. Martino is variously described in game recounts and in recruiting profiles as a "combo" or "shooting."

Saylor has been referred to as a "lefty point guard"  but her recruiting profile suggests combo, listing her as "PG/SG."

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:17 am

Ransom StoddardView user's profile






Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 57







Andy wrote:
NewXbo wrote:
I was out of town all day and got home just in time to hear part of Grentz's post game comments. She was talking about shooting and said that the team does not know how to shoot.  My question is, who is responsible for teaching the players how to coach?


How to "shoot."  I thought the same as she implored girls to come to her camp to be taught proper shooting technique.  How about teaching your players?  Apparently she feels her players' bad shooting technique is ingrained and irreversible.


Coach loves throwing the players under the bus.  It's never her fault.  The plug for her camps was galling (the "catch with the fingers" thing made no sense to me).  The team's play is tight and joyless - that is a telltale symptom of a negative / domineering / punishing / out-of-touch coach.

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:24 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1857


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Quote:
 The team's play is tight and joyless


Agreed - it's one of my biggest concerns, and there are many.

And again - short of a felony, Lutz has served her time.

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:55 pm

Ransom StoddardView user's profile






Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 57







The alcohol thing from this 1998 article does not bother me, but she is repeating her MO of favoring her recruits, not giving holdovers from the previous coaching staff a chance, and demeaning the players to the press.  One parent said of the non-Grentz recruits "[t]hese girls were definitely abused psychologically and emotionally."  The tight and joyless play from the girls tells me that is going on too.   http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1998...-2716440c5d0d9793518d2f6b56cb1c07

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Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:30 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2071







It's a different world with scholarships. Not a nice place but the school is paying players.
This year is hell but maybe Grentz is right. More should be expected.
After two decades of futility some patience is needed.
If her appproach is wrong we will pay with more losing years.

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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:09 am

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1857


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Ransom Stoddard wrote:
The alcohol thing from this 1998 article does not bother me, but she is repeating her MO of favoring her recruits, not giving holdovers from the previous coaching staff a chance, and demeaning the players to the press.  One parent said of the non-Grentz recruits "[t]hese girls were definitely abused psychologically and emotionally."  The tight and joyless play from the girls tells me that is going on too.   http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1998...-2716440c5d0d9793518d2f6b56cb1c07


It's tough to know what to make of any of this.  

I watched her post-game comments and understood what she was saying. We aren't receiving passes correctly and it affects our shooting motion, which makes sense given that an overwhelming percentage of our outside shots are taken off the pass.  It's hardly the most damning thing I've ever heard a coach say. The player she noted as a solid shooter - Stipa - is a junior.

We shoot 33% overall and 25% from 3. I'd be concerned if she tried to say we were a good shooting team.  She said what everyone watching recognized: they can't shoot. As I said early I was blown away at how many times we got good looks and just clunked it. She said they were working on it. What else can she say?

When you're 1-18 there isn't much you can say that's going to play well. I hope that she hasn't lost the team. Things definitely improve next season, that's the upside of being awful. The only question that remains this season is will they be historically awful.

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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:20 pm

HancockView user's profile






Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Posts: 7


Location: NYC





I never paid much attention womens basketball. I'd never heard of Theresa Grentz. But after a holiday party and the stories that I heard, I decided to learn. I read on this forum about her record and she will win. I found at Illinois she won games but never got them where she promised. In a 2007 illinois paper, writer McGraw described Grentz's reign as "tyrannical" and described her as "a woman who, from my observations, systematically sucked the life out of not only the program, but the players." This fits the players are tight scenario.
I looked for forums since I have followed football on this one and you get the real feel for a program. Sounded a lot like here before the FT retirement party.
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtop...=e97e807b0d4c6cddf165982eca908c80

http://fireronguenther.blogspot.c...heresa-grentz-still-employed.html
As far as lack of shooters goes, fix the passing first. Its easier and doesn't require hours developing muscle memory. A shooter needs a good pass. The few games i watched online have passes too low and too slow. Faster ball movement doesn't require super athletes.

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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:47 pm

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1857


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Well this is certainly going downhill fast.

Wonder how much vetting Bruce did with this one....

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Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:11 pm

Ransom StoddardView user's profile






Joined: 13 Nov 2014
Posts: 57







Here is the text of the article referenced in those other blogs.  I could not link to it from the other blog, but I was able to track it down.  

My lack of technological skills is hampering me from providing just a link to the article, so I have put the text of the entire article in this post. Sorry that this entry is so long, but I think you'll want to read this.

The article was published April 21, 2007 and is written by Patricia Babcock McGraw, who writes the nation's longest running women's sports column (since 1997) in the Daily Herald (Arlington Heights, IL).  She was Indiana Miss Basketball 1990 (Culver Academy) and a first-team all-Big Ten center at Northwestern University.  She has spent five seasons as color analyst/sideline reporter for WNBA's Chicago Sky, six seasons as a women's basketball game and studio analyst for Big Ten Network and is a DePaul University women's basketball web and TV analyst.  Thus, her opinion is not easily dismissed.  

I fear at Lafayette we have skipped over the initial success part of the story and right to the part where the program has the life sucked out of it through a "tyrannical reign of bullying and bull[shit]."    

TURBULENT GRENTZ ERA AT ILLINOIS ENDS NOT A MOMENT TOO SOON

You are reading history here, folks.  

This is the first column I’ve written about the Illinois women’s basketball team in at least seven years, probably more.

But hey, what better reason to reacquaint this space with the program than with a commentary on the resignation of head coach Theresa Grentz.

Earlier this week, Grentz announced that she would be leaving Champaign after 12 seasons to "pursue other career opportunities."

My first thought when I heard the news?

Check that. My first printable thought?

“Free at last. Free at last. Thank God, almighty, free at last."

Finally, this program is free from Grentz’s tyrannical reign of bullying and bull-you-know-what.

This is a woman who, from my observations, systematically sucked the life out of not only the program, but its players.

"It was not a good time for me, it was the worst four years of my life,” former Maine West star Dawn Vana said of her career at Illinois.

She played for Grentz from 1999-2002 and is now an assistant girls basketball coach at Maine West.

“I should have never gone to that school, and all I have to say about (Grentz leaving Illinois) is that it’s about time,” Vana said.  “If I don't ever talk to her the rest of my life, then thank God.”

See what I mean?

Along the way, Grentz alienated the people who should have been among her best friends — girls high school basketball coaches in Illinois and the sportswriters in this state who actually give a hoot about women's college basketball and were willing and ready to give positive coverage and publicity to her program.

Goodbye stories, goodbye free PR. Goodbye recruiting pipeline.

You know how many players from Illinois were on Illinois’ 13-woman roster this year? Two.  Sadly, that was the trend in recent years.

I have to say, this whole thing with Grentz is fascinating and bewildering at the same time.  Because while Grentz ultimately sucked the life out of the program, she was the one who originally breathed that life into it.

When she first arrived at Illinois in 1995, the team was in a sorry state. There were losing seasons, last-place finishes in the Big Ten. It was pathetic.

But by her second year, Grentz was somehow working miracles. Suddenly, the Illini were winning gobs of games, earning national rankings and turning the Big Ten upside down.

In 1996-97, Illinois tied for first in the league and advanced all the way to the Sweet Sixteen of the NCAA Tournament. The next season, Illinois duplicated that feat in the postseason.

Reporters from all over the state embraced that team. Even the St. Louis paper was covering the Illini regularly.

Meanwhile, high school coaches in Illinois couldn't wait to send their best players to Grentz. Back in those glory years, nearly the entire team was comprised of girls from the Chicago suburbs.

It was a fairy tale in the making.

Little did we all know that the story would abruptly end there.

After the 1997-98 season, all kinds of craziness ensued.

Four senior reserves publicly told of the mental abuse they had suffered at the hands of Grentz. They had even threatened to file a slander lawsuit against Grentz for unflattering remarks that she had made about them in a down state newspaper.

They all eventually left the team.

Then came the exiles of former suburban stars such as Katie Coleman and Casey Leonhardt, who eagerly left Champaign despite playing key roles on the team.

Vana says she too wanted to leave after her sophomore year, but Grentz, perhaps fearful of how yet another transfer would look, pleaded with her to stay.

“It was just not a good situation,” Vana said.  

“It was a bad decision to stay, but at the time, I didn’t want to quit. Theresa had her favorites, and if you weren’t one of them, watch out.”

Then, somewhere amid all this mess, the university filed a self-reported violation because Grentz admittedly served alcohol to her players on two occasions after tournament wins.

Suddenly, the once backslapping, engaging Grentz became more and more combative with the media.

And, for whatever reason, she became almost ambivalent about the recruiting hotbed in her own backyard — not that the high school coaches who were once feeding her players were still enamored by her, anyway.

From then on, Illinois never advanced past the second round and missed the NCAA Tournament altogether in six of the last seven seasons.

"It’s pretty sad, isn’t it?” Vana said. “She basically blew up her own program.”

So what kept Grentz around for so long in spite of it all?

Maine West coach Derril Kipp told me this week that Grentz, a very good public speaker, was a master fundraiser and had raised enough money to fund scholarships for the program for the next IO years.

It would seem that not even that was enough to save her.

I don't know if I buy the idea that Grentz resigned, especially after she had sought a contract extension as recently as two months ago. She also had another year left on her contract.

Perhaps Illinois athletic director Ron Guenther finally caught on as to why the women’s basketball team at the state’s flagship school barely represented the state, and why the media no longer paid attention to it.

pbabcock@dailyherald.com

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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:05 am

The MaroonView user's profile






Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1857


Location: Bethlehem, PA





Again - I'm not sure what to make about any of this. The bulk of the article is the griping of one player (who inexplicably did NOT leave). At the same time - I'm not oblivious to the fact a clear pattern/story is emerging and it's not a good one.

The questions I have now are 1) Was Bruce dialed into this when he hired her or was he so giddy to have a mighty mac that he did no vetting? and 2) WHY THE HELL ISN'T ASHLEY LUTZ PLAYING?  These kids have essentially no voice after they accept the scholarship...Mike Joseph isn't going to ask the question, Gary Laubach, isn't....And frankly that's irresponsible.

I'm starting to hope that this is the last year of the Grentz experiment. I hope one of the adults in the room is looking out for these girls.

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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:09 am

pardfanView user's profile






Joined: 07 Sep 2014
Posts: 400







The list has expanded to three:  Bruce, FOH, and now Ms. Grentz.  All must go.  The football retooling is only a start.  It's business as usual until they exit.

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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:34 pm

bethlehempardView user's profile






Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 2071







The previous issues were known, and she spent a year with the program before being hired.
Any column that cites people thinking about suing loses some credibility.  Anybody can say that. Nor does the in-state issue matter in Easton and a writer can usually find a disgruntled former player.
Still what's happening right now is just hard to understand.
What the hell I'll go today just a little late.
Lehigh has been playing freshmen too but with a little more success.
All games matter but we really need some league wins.
The coach appears to be punishing Lafayette for past failures. Some of the players appear to be miserable.
I was pro-Grentz. Now I'm perplexed. This is downright weird.

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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:06 pm

bison137View user's profile






Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 1366







bethlehempard wrote:
The previous issues were known, and she spent a year with the program before being hired.
Any column that cites people thinking about suing loses some credibility.  Anybody can say that. Nor does the in-state issue matter in Easton and a writer can usually find a disgruntled former player.
Still what's happening right now is just hard to understand.



Fwiw, the article cites seven disgruntled players.  Reports at the time said there were others.

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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:08 pm

njleopardView user's profile






Joined: 13 Apr 2016
Posts: 39







[quote="bethlehempard:59874"]The previous issues were known, and she spent a year with the program before being hired.
Any column that cites people thinking about suing loses some credibility.  Anybody can say that. Nor does the in-state issue matter in Easton and a writer can usually find a disgruntled former player.
Still what's happening right now is just hard to understand.
What the hell I'll go today just a little late.
Lehigh has been playing freshmen too but with a little more success.
All games matter but we really need some league wins.
The coach appears to be punishing Lafayette for past failures. Some of the players appear to be miserable.
I was pro-Grentz. Now I'm perplexed. This is downright weird.[/quote]

What is perplexing is that if anyone looked into her background they would have seen some huge red flags.  Plus she left Illini to pursue other opportunities and then was out of coaching for nearly a decade another big red flag. And it seems from Bruce's comments when he hired her without much of a search that  LC broke the bank to hire her. What happened to the women's team was  totally foreseeable and one did not need a crystal ball to expect she would be the same person at LC that she was at Illini with the same ending.  Malfeasance by the LC AD.

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Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:31 am

Yankeefan1922View user's profile






Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 15







I vote for malfeasance, too.  When Lafayette announced Nolans "retirement" in March '15, the college "immediately began a national search for its next head women's basketball coach".  It is my understanding that Bruce and Kaity headed to the Women's Final Four to conduct the business of identifying and landing the next women's basketball coach.

What exactly transpired over those 4/5 days is anyone's guess.  How many interviews did Bruce conduct, how many opinions did he solicit?  Or did he just walk around mumbling and looking confused, as usual?

Over the next few weeks, Bruce realized that the best idea was right under his mustachioed nose.  Why not hire a coach who had not been on a college bench in 10 years, had been trending on the wrong direction at the end of her career and left under less-than-ideal circumstances.

And, given her impressive, albeit tarnished, resume we will back up the Brinks truck and throw a boatload of money at her, to boot!

Sounds like a plan! Sign us up! Allison, are you going to continue to tolerate this?  I know the fans and alumni are not.

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