Please Register and Login to this forum to stop seeing this advertsing.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:41 am
Kiltedpard
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 293
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Bells1 wrote:
Since the input of a former player was solicited I will respond. Commenting on a public forum is not really my cup of tea. I will not disparage players or coaches. I'm sure that every effort is being made to turn things around. My belief is that it is true now as it was when I played - recruiting mistakes made at this level of basketball and academics are magnified. It is a mistake to bring players in solely based on height, hoping that they will develop into D-1 players. I am disappointed that effort is being questioned. Giving your best effort should never be a question. On the assistant coach issue - again I have no firsthand knowledge of the present situation but I do know the importance of having experienced, capable assistants. An assistant making a lateral move to a NEC school is troubling. Are economics an issue here? If so it would seem to be penny wise and pound foolish. We are handing out $200K scholarships largely based on the efforts and evaluations of the people in this position. Norm Gigon was an integral part of the program's success during his years on the Hill. He had a keen sense of the type player and person that would do well at Lafayette (probably news to some on here that he was involved with the basketball program). He was able to scout and recruit without being too involved in the day-to-day (although he served as a great confidant). Not sure if we have someone in that role today.
One last thing - Leave John Leone alone. He's a good man who ran into a bad string of circumstance. An undue amount of injuries due to the ridiculous rubber floor certainly hurt him as much as anything.
Thanks for your input. I too date back to the Norm Gigon days and knew that he was involved with our programs (hoops and baseball). I am trying like heck to avoid disparaging anyone, coach, assts., players, because I beleive, maybe naively that everyone is doing their very best. I am also not bashing John as I beleive he is a great guy and is great for the college. He just needed to find the right job @ LC.
My frustration is, we have a good coach, we have a great college, we have good facilities, we have some tradition, and now with scholarships we are still struggling. I want us to succeed on a consistent basis.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:38 am
Lafalum
Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 843
If you think we have all the elements we need then why aren't we succeeding....the reason is one or more of those elements are not in place.
So pick and choose which one. We can put on a happy face and be great supporters of the college but if nothing changes......nothing will change. The recruiting environment has changed, the league has changed, the college's resources are diminished. Lastly, I am not convinced that one high order athletic goal for this admistration, and I mean the people in Markle or Kirby, is winning. For one there are other fiscal priorities and and object is to bleed as much into their priorities as posible and for the other its to preserve their jobs. Winning is farther down on the list.
That's the way I see it.
Until that's changed we are stuck or maybe we'll get lucky. I'd rather not wait for good luck
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:42 am
Long Time Fan
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 30
As long as we're talking about frustrations, here are mine with this program.
1. The turnover rate in personnel, players and coaches. I think that one of the reasons this season has been particularly difficult is because Hines and Andersen left after their freshman years. I think they showed enough skills and athletic ability that they both would have started at the begining of this season. I also think Tom Leszczynski would have been a solid contributor the past two seasons. I suppose that Fran is a tough guy to work for and play for, but I'm sure Ralph Willard is too and Pat Flanery was also. It just seems there is more turnover in personnel the past ten years than I ever saw in the previous forty.
2. In recruiting it seems that we are getting our "fruit" from the lower branches of the tree. Who was the last Lafayette player to be named first team all league at the end of the season? Would anyone argue that we are not the least athletic team in the league and have been so for years?
3. Where are the Black basketball players at Lafayette? We have a problem in this respect--and I don't know what it is. _________________ Long Time Fan
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:25 am
Andy
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 860
Long Time Fan wrote:
As long as we're talking about frustrations, here are mine with this program.
1. The turnover rate in personnel, players and coaches. I think that one of the reasons this season has been particularly difficult is because Hines and Andersen left after their freshman years. I think they showed enough skills and athletic ability that they both would have started at the begining of this season. I also think Tom Leszczynski would have been a solid contributor the past two seasons. I suppose that Fran is a tough guy to work for and play for, but I'm sure Ralph Willard is too and Pat Flanery was also. It just seems there is more turnover in personnel the past ten years than I ever saw in the previous forty.
2. In recruiting it seems that we are getting our "fruit" from the lower branches of the tree. Who was the last Lafayette player to be named first team all league at the end of the season? Would anyone argue that we are not the least athletic team in the league and have been so for years?
3. Where are the Black basketball players at Lafayette? We have a problem in this respect--and I don't know what it is.
How badly would our current team with three scholarship recruiting classes lose to our 03-04 roster?:
DeBerry, Winston Davis, Farrell, Dill, P. Betley. Bench--Jamal Douglas, Knitter, Hilliard, Capusan. Would you guys agree we'd lose by 20?
Where is the upgrade in athleticism? Heck, where is the upgrade in talent?
The difference IMO is that we had very good asst coach recruiters.
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:37 pm
Kiltedpard
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 293
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Well, we were picked last pre season and that's where we are. I guess everyone knew and we were just optimistic. We are what we are and that's not very good. I was hoping we would be improving. Maybe we can get the Bison at home tonight? Sigh!
Go Pards!
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:17 pm
The Maroon
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 459
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Bells1 wrote:
Since the input of a former player was solicited I will respond. Commenting on a public forum is not really my cup of tea. I will not disparage players or coaches. I'm sure that every effort is being made to turn things around. My belief is that it is true now as it was when I played - recruiting mistakes made at this level of basketball and academics are magnified. It is a mistake to bring players in solely based on height, hoping that they will develop into D-1 players. I am disappointed that effort is being questioned. Giving your best effort should never be a question. On the assistant coach issue - again I have no firsthand knowledge of the present situation but I do know the importance of having experienced, capable assistants. An assistant making a lateral move to a NEC school is troubling. Are economics an issue here? If so it would seem to be penny wise and pound foolish. We are handing out $200K scholarships largely based on the efforts and evaluations of the people in this position. Norm Gigon was an integral part of the program's success during his years on the Hill. He had a keen sense of the type player and person that would do well at Lafayette (probably news to some on here that he was involved with the basketball program). He was able to scout and recruit without being too involved in the day-to-day (although he served as a great confidant). Not sure if we have someone in that role today.
One last thing - Leave John Leone alone. He's a good man who ran into a bad string of circumstance. An undue amount of injuries due to the ridiculous rubber floor certainly hurt him as much as anything.
It's funny you mention Leone. In the spring of '92 we had a Philly recruit on campus who joked he wasn't being recruted by the Big 5, but the little 3 (Rider, Drexel and Lafayette). I know we were in the running for him until the end, but he wound up at Drexel--and later went on to pick up a couple rings with the San Antonio Spurs. He was Malik Rose.
I can guarantee you if Malik Rose came to Lafayette John Leone would have been the coach beyond 1995, Fran would have been snatched up by another program. The entire complexion of the program would have changed.
I'm not trying to play the what-if game, I'm just trying to point out how near misses--especially in basketball--can change everything. Adonal Foyle, Sitapha Sivane, Brian Ehlers, Pat McNaughton....I won't argue for a second those guys did it alone, there was plenty around those guys--but talent tends to get drawn to talent. If you ever see Craig Kowadla sometime who was recruited heavily by Colgate, watch his eyes light up when he thinks what might have been if he could have played PG with Foyle on his team.
My point is, basketball recruitign more than any other sport is about recruiting "THAT" player---it starts a lot of positive momentum.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the men's team has bottomed out. Willen is that kind of player. He's leading the team in points and rebounds in conference games. He's a star---this year has sucked, but we only lose one player and we have ourselves a star. Gruner and Kari will form a solid back court. Mintz is ready to take it to the next level. Willen I've already covered. Visockas will hopefully recover. If we could ever figure out what to do with Benbow's unique game he could be a potent weapon.
No we're not gonna challenge for a title next year, but I can say with assurance that this is the bottom.
Now I will head to the women's forum and explain why they could actually get worse.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
